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Should Ray Rice Get His Job Back?; American Couple Cleared of Murder; Rams "Hands Up" Protest Draws Criticism; Teaching Ferguson in the Classroom

Aired December 01, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I guess I'm torn on this issue because if you commit a crime and you pay a price, however weak it may have been, you've paid your price. Do you deserve never to work again?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS: Right. There's a lot of people who have a problem with that extreme as well. And, look, Janay Rice is going out here and as you say she's trying to soften the ground --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST: Right.

NICHOLS: -- and we'll see how effective it is. She said in her interview, the clip that you guys just played, "I hope that an NFL team can look past this." I don't think an NFL team is going to look past this I think that the possibility is an NFL team will look at this incident and how Janay and Ray Rice are both moving forward, what Ray Rice is doing to sort of repent for what he did and whether they can include that as you say in a redemption story. I don't think this is ever going to get wiped from the records.

COSTELLO: I was making this comparison to Michael Vick because you're right, this had to do with dogs and Janay is a living human being but still I don't think Michael Vick ever did get past that.

NICHOLS: Well, I mean certainly it is part of his story. And that's the thing, you can't get past it. No one is going to just forget about this. This will always be part of his --

COSTELLO: But you have to --

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: -- story.

Well, a time in prison away from the field obviously affected his playing as well. It's all part of it, right?

COSTELLO: Right. We'll see what happened. We'll see what Ray Rice has to say on the "Today" show. Why do you suppose they chose to do the interview in that way? Because it's interesting they're going to be in the kitchen.

STELTER: Well, right. It starts with Janay and her mom, then later Ray Rice happens to come home after they've taped that interview and then they can tape the whole family together. It's awfully convenient.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, Rachel Nichols -- thanks so much.

I want to know what you think. Should Ray Rice get his job back? Tweet me @CarolCNN or post your thoughts on my Facebook page, facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: An American couple cleared of the death of their child, finally expected to return home from Qatar. On Sunday, an appeals judge cleared the Huangs of starving their adopted daughter to death in 2013. Their controversial and bizarre case drew global attention to the Qatar justice system, but the drama did not end there. The couple was then blocked from leaving Qatar and their passports were confiscated at the airport.

Matthew Huang spoke to CNN on the phone about the ordeal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW HUANG, CLEARED IN THE DEATH OF DAUGHTER (via telephone): We were in Doha Airport. We were declared -- we were declared innocent by the judge this morning and told that we may leave the country and may travel. However we came to the airport, they would not allow us to go through immigration. They confiscated our passports and we were also told that the attorney general's office issued a warrant for our arrest earlier today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Jim Sciutto is here with more. So just refresh our memories. Why did the Qatar justice system think that this couple, this American couple, starved their child?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's truly a bizarre case, Carol. It was the opinion of the prosecutor that this family adopted this child from Africa cheaply -- bought the child, in effect -- and then produced evidence or said that they had evidence that they had denied the child care including proper food, et cetera. Now, it was the contention of the Huang's and their defense team that that was a fabricated case.

They presented evidence from their own forensic pathologist who said there was no evidence that the prosecutor even took tissue samples, for instance, from their daughter. The prosecutor is claiming those tissue samples showed that she'd been deprived of food and the defense saying there was no evidence they even took the samples.

So you had real questions about this prosecution from the very beginning and then beyond the evidence of the case, it was how the couple was treated outside of the courtroom. For instance, this delay on Sunday as they were leaving the airport after being declared innocent on their appeal; they were freed from prison November, 2013 and on appeal they were out of prison but not allowed to leave the country. And the State Department, the U.S. State Department making very clear to Qatari officials that they believe that that was unfair, saying that they should have been allowed to go home during their appeal so these delays, this very final delay, very painful delay, was not the first one. It's been going on for some time.

COSTELLO: Will they get home soon, do you think?

SCIUTTO: The word we have now is that they're going to leave the airport imminently. I think what we saw here was pretty strong statement from the U.S. on a case like this. You had Secretary of State John Kerry, I'll read from his statement just in the last 24 hours saying that "the 22 long months of court proceedings following their daughter's tragic death have compounded the tragedy for the Huang family" -- noting that the thoroughly documented findings found them innocent. "It's time now as the Appeals Court stated to let the Huangs return home. We are deeply concerned about new delays that have prevented their departure."

That's not the first statement from John Kerry -- Carol. He had a statement last month saying in effect the same thing and made a call, in fact, to the Qatari foreign minister. These are rare steps for a senior American official to make to an ally. Keep in mind, Qatar is very close with the U.S. and is fighting alongside the U.S. against ISIS. So you have this case which created a real issue here for a couple that, you know, went through its own tragedy, losing their adopted daughter. It looks like we're going to see the resolution though in the coming hours that this final delay at the airport is going to be lifted and they'll finally be coming home.

COSTELLO: I hope so. Jim Sciutto reporting live for us this morning -- thanks so much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Tensions over Ferguson are spilling out on to the football field and the St. Louis police -- some St. Louis police officers are not happy about it. The officers want this group of players punished, these five players, for entering the field Sunday with their hands up. You'll remember that familiar symbol of the protests in nearby Ferguson. In addition, the officers' association wants a very public apology from the NFL.

Joining me now Jeff Roorda -- he is the business manager for the St. Louis Police Officers Association. Good morning.

JEFF ROORDA, ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION: Good morning. How are you?

COSTELLO: I'm good. Thank you so much for being with me. The players, these five players involved, said they were not taking any side by putting their hands up. They just wanted to show the community that they cared. How do you see it?

ROORDA: Well, this is a gesture that's become synonymous with this very public allegation that Darren Wilson murdered Michael Brown in cold blood on the street as he was attempting to peacefully surrender. I don't know how, after months of using this gesture in that way that anyone could display it and then attempt to apply a different meaning to it.

It means today what it meant on August 9. It's an accusation against law enforcement that we find not only offensive but inflammatory at a time that we hope that a community dialogue can happen between the police and communities of color that feel some resentment towards law enforcement.

COSTELLO: What kind of disciplinary action are you talking about?

ROORDA: Well, I mean this is a sports league that penalizes and fines players for on-field dances in the end zone or for spiking the ball. This is at least as offensive as that and if there's not regulations against it, there ought to be.

COSTELLO: Do you think that would help calm tensions if the NFL sanctioned these players for this show of hands for lack of a better term?

ROORDA: Well, let's not diminish what the show of hands meant. Again, it's accusing a police officer, a brother police officer of executing a young man in cold blood. So let's not diminish it. I have a call into the Rams executives. I'd like to talk to them. We're glad to sit down and talk to these players and find out what their real intentions were and we're glad to talk to the league but I'll tell you, not only are St. Louis police officers mad, but friends in law enforcement from across the country were calling me last night that were offended. As were the supporters of police that purchase the wares that are hawked on the NFL broadcast.

COSTELLO: I'm glad you said you wanted to sit down with players because there's this photo going viral right now and I want you to take -- maybe you've already seen it. It shows a young African- American boy, 12 years old, he's hugging a white police officer. His name Devonte Hart, he was holding up a sign saying free hugs during a protest surrounding Ferguson when this Portland police sergeant Brett Barnum approached Hart.

At first it was tense. The little boy said I'm scared of the officer. He's scared of police brutality but he quickly got over it when this wonderful moment took place. I want you listen to what Sergeant Barnum said about this hug.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. BERT BARNUM, PORTLAND OREGON POLICE: To know that without the intent, without the preknowledge of what Devonte was facing but to now know the back story of it is really -- it hits home and it solidifies what most all of us do, this work for, this job for is just to create good will and to help mankind, help our fellow citizens in the community. And that's what police work is all about. And to know that I was able to help Devonte face some extraordinary fears that he has a young man, it's really humbling to me as an individual and it makes me feel good about the work I do. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So I guess instead of calling for disciplinary action against these players, wouldn't it be better just to sit down and talk to them and hash out your differences?

ROORDA: Yes. We're glad to do that. You know, that clip you just played is very touching. We need more of that and less of what we saw yesterday because, as I've said before, this wound can't heal if we're picking at the scab and we saw what happened yesterday as picking at the scab and --

COSTELLO: And I get where you're coming from. But it's become this tit for tat thing that's not really very helpful.

ROORDA: Well, I agree. But the whole intent of this post Michael Brown shooting ought to be -- to figure out a way it doesn't happen again, not for there to be this back and forth between police supporters and police and --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Right. But doesn't someone have to take the lead and shouldn't that person taking the lead be in a position of authority?

ROORDA: Well, it should but you can't have a one-way conversation. I mean we're ready to engage in a dialogue with leaders from communities of color. I was meeting with Senator Jamilah Nasheed two days after the shooting occurred and we're ready to do more of that. But we can't move forward while people are publicly calling Darren Wilson a murderer when we don't think that there's evidence that grand jury --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, in fairness to these football players, they say that's certainly not what they were doing. They were just showing solidarity within their community so I guess what I'm saying is instead of threatening or trying to get the NFL to impose some disciplinary action against these five players, why not just sit down and talk because, you know, people are going to listen to these football players more than they're going to listen to you at this point.

ROORDA: Well, my phone number is in the book. NFL players' numbers aren't in the book. If they want to reach out to me, I'm glad to talk to them.

COSTELLO: All right. Jeff Roorda, thanks for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

ROORDA: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the newsroom, students are watching what's happening in Ferguson just like everyone else. But how do you teach the lessons of Ferguson in a public classroom? What should teachers say? We'll talk about that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Watching history unfold in Ferguson. We've seen the protests, the marches, and the rallies. And just yesterday the St. Louis Rams players took to the field displaying the "hands up don't shoot pose" that's become symbolic of the Ferguson protest. Young people are watching all of this unfold and many of them have a lot of questions and maybe no one to talk to.

An eighth grade teacher in suburban Pittsburgh says he couldn't just sit back and not address Ferguson after coming into an eerily quiet classroom last week, the day after the grand jury decided not to indict former police officer Darren Wilson for killing Michael Brown so he did the best he could. Of course, it brings back that question, what do teachers say to students? Let's talk about that.

I'm joined now by Georgetown history professor Marcia Chatelain and innovation chief of D.C. Public School, Robert Simmons. He's written a five-page guide for how teachers should discuss Ferguson in the classroom. Full disclosure here, Robert also happens to be a friend of mine. Welcome to you both.

MARCIA CHATELAIN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

ROBERT SIMMONS, INNOVATION CHIEF, D.C. PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being here. I want to start with you Professor Chatelain, you started a Twitter hashtag "Ferguson syllabus". Why?

CHATELAIN: Well, I knew that as a result of the unrest this August that educators would have a lot of questions about how to engage their students and so I wanted to give teachers an opportunity to not feel isolated or alone in this very difficult task of getting to the bottom of how young people feel about an incredibly powerful and important moment in their lives.

COSTELLO: What's been the response to your hashtag?

CHATELAIN: It's been fantastic. I've heard from educators who are with preschool kids all the way up to my college teaching colleagues. At the core of all of this is an understanding that if we don't engage young people about what's happening we are complicit in the type of violence and terror that's been happening on the ground.

And so I think that the most important thing that "Ferguson syllabus" has taught me is that people really want to have positive and thoughtful conversations. They just need the support to do it.

COSTELLO: So Robert, I can hear parents out there sort of freaking out about this because you don't want -- most parents don't want teachers implanting things in kids' minds. So how should that conversation go in the classroom?

SIMMONS: So one of the things that we thought about in the D.C. public schools was through the leadership of our chancellor Kaya Henderson when she asked myself and the chief of Teaching and Learning (inaudible) to think about what that document would be and one of the things that was critical as I put it together was to give students the space to share their feelings without being judged but also give teachers the opportunity to help enter into this space as facilitators as opposed to being a sage on the stage. But also recognizing --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: But what if, Robert, a student asks why did police shoot Michael Brown? How does a teacher respond?

SIMMONS: As we look at the document that I prepared as well as the teachablemoment.org documents and the documents from educhange (ph), one of the things is that it's critical for teachers to have the students to do the research on their own. So that the teacher isn't in an awkward position because a teacher may have an opinion that's very different from the media, may have a very different opinion from the students and from the parents.

And so one of the critical pieces that we put out there is for the students to actually go out and find what are the variety of opinions about why Michael Brown was shot and then further more it's a good opportunity for us to encourage our students to participate in our democracy using the skills that they would need in everyday life.

So part of it is this isn't just about Michael Brown but it's an opportunity for young people to contribute to a conversation because they're going to have to contribute to these types of conversations throughout their lives.

COSTELLO: So Marcia, are students able to do this? Let's say fifth graders, if they ask this question and the teacher says to them you're going to go have to explore that issue yourself, will the kid understand that?

CHATELAIN: Of course, kids understand that we are in the middle of an incredibly emotional and difficult time for a lot of communities. Kids know how to do research. But more than anything else, kids know how to be honest. I think it's the adults that are afraid and so when you ask a young person to go out, look at the differing opinions, the conclusion is and what do you think is right and what do you think you can do differently or what can you learn from this?

And so I don't think there's anything to be worried about because kids have these tools. They just need our leadership and our guidance to do it better.

COSTELLO: Marcia Chatelain, Robert Simmons, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

SIMMONS: Thank you.

CHATELAIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Recklessness on the roads: a pack of bikers taunt police with wild maneuvers then top off the insolence by posting it on line. CNN's Jeanne Moos has it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Crazy, reckless, asinine. A pack of motorcyclists taunting a police car giving chase, doing stunts, but not just doing wheelies but doing wheelies right next to the police car. This brazen six-minute video was posted on YouTube that shows bikers in Los Angeles driving on the wrong side of the road, running red lights.

When the police car tries to cut them off, it's hard to tell who's chasing whom. More often than not it seems the police car that seems surrounded. There's even a police chopper with a spotlight giving chase from above, which is apparently why the bikers take cover under an overpass. A few dozen of them, then make a mass exodus though the chopper and its spotlight are still there.

The only accident seen on the video, one of the motorcyclists wipes out. We have no idea if he was seriously hurt. At one point one biker says to another "Take your jacket off". Jacket handed over -- we're guessing to somehow make identification harder. Eventually they turn down a pedestrian walkway and come out driving without lights, turn down an alley, park in the dark.

The guy who posted the video says a few of the riders were caught and arrested but most escaped. We tried to confirm that with Los Angeles police. But LAPD told us they were too tied up with the Ferguson protests to deal with questions about this.

Motorcyclists gone wild, police seem powerless to do anything but let these bikers slide.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA" starts now.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: ISIS terrorists going after members of the military here at home. The FBI's frightening warning and why they're telling service members to watch what they post online.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: An Ohio State football player is found dead of an apparent suicide. Why his mother thinks concussions might be to blame.