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White House Wants to Promote Community Policing; Janay Rice Speaking Out; Ryan and Julie Lewis Talk about 30/30 Project

Aired December 01, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Am I getting that -- am I right?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. That's the case.

It's a hard, hard case. I got to say, you know, it was interesting. I was reading the transcript of the oral argument which took place this morning. The justices are confused about this case.

BALDWIN: Really?

TOOBIN: They are having a hard time.

BALDWIN: Why?

TOOBIN: Because how do you tell the difference between someone blowing off steam and someone who is actually making a threat?

It's easy to define, you know, the difference in the abstract but once you get to actual statements it gets really hard. In this case, it is really a classic example of that.

Now the government says, you know, this is why we have juries. You simply ask the jury would a reasonable person take these statements as threats. But Mr. Elonis and his lawyer they say no, no, no. That's not standard. We don't leave free speech up to juries. You need to prove that I, the defendant intended to threaten someone. You need to have a subjective standard not an objective standard.

BALDWIN: Let me hit pause and read one of these postings part of what got him in trouble. Talking to his ex-wife, he wrote this on facebook.

If I only knew what I now know I would have smothered your (bleep) in a pillow, dumped your body in the back seat, dropped your body in toad creek and make it took like rape or murder.

I mean, that's pretty bad.

TOOBIN: It's pretty bad. But it's a passed -- you know, if you want to parse it. It is like if I only knew what I knew now, I would have done this. It is not a threat to do it in the future. The jury that's what Elonis says. The jury said no, no, no. That's threatening. You're guilty.

And by the way, Elonis is now serving seven years in prison. BALDWIN: So, is this -- this is a first for the Supreme Court. Is it

-- I feel like a lot of times when we talk about stories like this not at this level, but it's a matter of the law is not totally catching up with social media, technology.

TOOBIN: Especially with Supreme Court justices who are in their 70s and 80s. And I guarantee you, they are on the twitter. I don't think they know what the twitter is. Now, fortunately, they have law clerks and actually they have been pretty good about adapting to modern technology in most of their decisions.

But you know, what I think is the key issue in this case?

BALDWIN: What?

TOOBIN: It is something that's not mentioned in the briefs. It's Newtown. It's Pueblo, Colorado. It is these cases where -- Aurora. I'm sorry, where the individuals have given signs that something bad was going to happen but they were not stopped, they were not questioned. And I think the justices are going to have in the back of their mind. You know what? We're going to err on the side of making sure people are at least questioned and investigated if they are talking like this on social media. Because that question of, you know, why weren't they stopped sooner? Why weren't they interrogated sooner? It has been such a big question that I think that justices are going -- that's going to play significantly.

BALDWIN: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Janay Rice, the wife of Ray Rice talking about domestic violence she suffered at the hand of her NFL star husband, this as he is eligible to play yet again. We'll talk to the woman who interviewed her from ESPN. That's coming up next.

Plus protesters as we've been showing these pictures, they are walking out of schools and homes and workplaces across the country. They are upset and upset a lot of them over police violence. Now pressure is on the White House to help ease tensions to fix some of that. What the president is doing right now to help the nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) in the midst of several meetings today specifically on the topic of Ferguson and moving forward. And so, we do also know that the president wants to use another executive order to help deal with much distrust between many in different communities and police departments nationwide.

Ferguson has definitely put more pressure on him to act, to bridge this divide. First issue how can say the black community and law enforcement build trust. Tensions flared up again when five St. Louis Rams players walked out on to the field just last night using the hands up protest gesture. The St. Louis police association now wants the NFL to discipline those players. Thus far no disciplinary action will be taken. Our Martin Savidge is in Atlanta for me outside of the historic

Ebenezer Baptist church where the attorney general will meet with civic leaders to tackle the same problem there.

Martin, tell me a little bit more about this. What's happening at the church tonight?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well you know, President Obama asked for these regional meetings to take place, the attorney general came to Atlanta. He is going to be meeting first behind closed doors with the mayor, with the chief of police, civic leaders, political leaders, faith leaders, and student leaders.

But after that, then there's going to be an interfaith service followed by a community forum. But there is no other looking the historic significance of where we are and the date. The where, of course, is the Martin Luther King, Jr. historic site. This is where Martin Luther King was born. It is also where he was raised in the church where he preached and the date December 1st, 1955, was when Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat at the front of the bus as whites only section in Montgomery, Alabama.

Those historic points remember not lost. The relevancy is known by the pastor here, the senior pastor who spoke on "NEW DAY" yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tomorrow is the 59th anniversary of the beginning of the Montgomery bus boycott. That was a local movement that turned into a national struggle that changed our country. Once again as we look at events in Ferguson, we need to change our nation again so that all of us can be assured that we rest under the promise of our judicial system equal protection under the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Historians will point out that that bus boycott proved among many things that large peaceful social protests can bring about historic change. That's clearly a message that the White House wants to reinforce again today -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, in reading, Martin, about what's happening at Ebenezer and also even in some of the president's meetings at the White House today, multigenerational, you know, they want to speak with younger folks, older folks, who I'm sure perceive not just race but socio-economic issues potentially differently?

SAVIDGE: They do. I mean, you know, one of the things that has been felt by those who were the original founder of the civil rights movement was that perhaps it's been lost on the young, that so much time has passed, admittedly there are still many things that have to change but major changes have occurred. So I think now, they are pointing out to young people saying look what was relevant then still very relevant today. The issue of community policing, the issue of the relationship of communities or communities of color to police forces, that's still vital today as Ferguson has proven -- Brooke. BALDWIN: OK. Martin Savidge for me in Atlanta. Martin, thank you.

And so, we're talking about the attorney general in Atlanta. Of course, we are also talking about the president of the United States in multiple meetings today with regard to what happened in Ferguson and moving forward.

Michelle Kosinski is our White House correspondent.

Michelle, tell me about this executive order.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

Well, there are couple of things that the White House wants to do. First of all, they want this task force to be formed, looking at community policing. They want more money that they are asking for from Congress to help fund training for police, local police departments and 50,000 body cameras. I mean, that's something that could potentially in the future answer of those difficult questions that are proving unanswerable in Ferguson. And you know, there are still questions surrounding that. The White House believed that these body cameras provided they are used properly and with training could work.

They also want to do a further review of what the president already commissioned back in August, looking at federal programs that give money and military equipment to local police departments. The results of that initial review came out today but the president wants more review. They want to go further with more recommendations. And they found things like over the past five years nearly half a million pieces of military equipment have been given to local police department, things like more than 5,000 humvees, aircrafts, ammunitions. But what they found was glaring lack of consistency, training and community input in giving that stuff to police departments.

Now the obvious question is well if the White House is doing this study and they want more, does the White House then see that militarization of police departments as some have portrayed it as contributing to what's continuing in Ferguson. And the White House doesn't want to go that far to say they feel that was the problem. But they said it is an issue that has been raised. And, obviously, when the White House looks at the broader problem and that's what the house says it wants to do. It wants to look at the broader issue not just in Ferguson or that region or that community but across the nation. It's apparent that's one area they want to look at, this giving of military equipment and, you know, tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, et cetera, to local police.

BALDWIN: Concerns we've heard echoed on the streets throughout the country with some of these walkouts, some of these protests we're watching, video of Michelle Kosinski at the White House. Thank you.

As we mentioned, the president in multiple meetings today. We're expecting President Obama's remarks actually at any moment. So stand by for that. Plus her husband punched her inside of an elevator, knocked her out.

But now Janay Rice is speaking out as her husband becomes be eligible to play in the NFL again. We'll talk with the woman who interviewed her ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

BALDWIN: That's Macklemore, Grammy award winner on World AIDS day 2014. Well, they have said, where am I going with this here on this Monday? Well, our next guest will explain because Ryan Lewis, you know Ryan Lewis, he's Macklemore musical partner. He is live with me from Seattle along with his mom, Julie Lewis. Thanks to have both of you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Hi.

RYAN LEWIS, MUSICIAN: Thanks for having us.

JULIE LEWIS, RYAN LEWIS'S MOTHER: Thanks for having us.

BALDWIN: So, Ryan you announced last spring that your mom has lived with HIV for 30 years. I mean this is a remarkable story. So let me just begin with you, Julie, because let's go way back to when you first found out you were first infected because of a blood transfusion when you had your first child. I was watching an interview before and you had said, your initial reaction was relief. Tell me why.

J. LEWIS: Well, when I was first told that I might be HIV positive, I was also told that I needed to get every single person in our family tested. My oldest daughter was born before my blood transfusion but I have breast-fed her so she needed to get tested. My other two kids were born to an HIV tested mom. So they needed to get tested. And of course, my husband needed to get tested. So there was a possibility all of five of us were HIV positive. So when it came back it was just me I was a little relieved because I felt like I could handle it myself but it would be much worse to have like my children and my husband also be infected.

BALDWIN: That's an incredibly selfless response to something I'm sure would be incredibly trepidations to hear about that.

And Ryan, you were a big six when you found out about your mom's condition. So I can't imagine like you are like I think my mom is sick. But tell me, when did it hit you?

R. LEWIS: You know, I think when you're that young it's tough to pinpoint a moment that I'm like oh, this is what it is. But I think, in that time period, for one, I'm seeing my mom react to the side effects of taking the medicine that would keep her alive. But also, you know, I'm young. I'm very vocal and open about it, as a second grader, I believe.

BALDWIN: You're telling your classmates.

R. LEWIS: And definitely even at that age -- yes definitely at that age I think I had a sense that it was a stigma. It was an unusual thing. So I think just seeing what was happening to her personally and then also just seeing how my community reacted to it is when I began to understand I want as a young kid.

BALDWIN: And so, Julie, you're getting the phone call from what, Ryan's teachers like so your son is sharing some information about you at school.

R. LEWIS: I can't keep a secret.

BALDWIN: Can't keep a secret. Way to go, Ryan. Just way to go. But so all of this happens fast -- yes, go ahead.

J. LEWIS: Well they were saying, Ryan shared something really special today in class. I don't know exactly what it was.

BALDWIN: Yes. Well, something special has happened for 30 entire years because you are, you know, still with us thanks to the amazing, you know, medicine, et cetera that's available, you know. Tell me, this is either of you, about the 30/30 project.

R. LEWIS: Yes. The 30/30 project kind of began in what you're talking about, which was sort of commemorating and celebrating that my mom had, in fact, survived for 30 years with this disease which is just unusual and not what our family has expected. And through that and through construction for change who my mom is working with, wanted to do something big, wanted to do something special, kind of that mark. And originally just kind of had a vision for one clinic that would stand strong for 30 years and offer health care and medicine to a community that needs it the very most. Sort of recognizing that without that medicine and health care my mom wouldn't have survived and then that expanded. At this point, we have almost five clinics fully funded and we're on our way to 30 of them worldwide.

BALDWIN: It is phenomenal, just phenomenal. I know that you all are so out there and talking about this. And I'm wondering, Julie, just final question, for all the people who can't quite get through to you who are finding out that they themselves are infected. What's your message to them when they're worried?

J. LEWIS: Well, to someone who is newly diagnosed, I mean, I would just love to tell them, you know, I've lived 30 years, that it's possible that there is life-saving medications, there's -- there are wonderful doctors. And also, you know, especially if they're in the United States, there's great local aids service organizations. So I suggest they get in touch with them and find out what's available in their community, lots of support, support groups. That's what got me through, really.

BALDWIN: OK. Well, Julie, here's to another 30 more years of surviving. Thank you so much for joining me. And Ryan Lewis, I can't keep a secret as a second grader, Lewis, I appreciate you, too. Thanks to both of you.

J. LEWIS: Thank you for having us.

R. LEWIS: Thank you for having us. BALDWIN: 30/30 project. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Just ahead here on CNN, the FBI is warning American soldiers that ISIS may try to target troops on U.S. soil. We have those details.

Plus, Janay Rice is speaking out about the domestic abuse she endured by her NFL star husband. We will talk to the woman who interviewed her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Janay Rice says her husband, pro-football star Ray Rice, was terrified after he hit her in the face and knocked her unconscious inside of this casino elevator. She says he was never violent before that moment and he hasn't been violent since. And he deserves, according to Janay Rice, a chance to return to the football field.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What's it going to take in your mind, Janay, for another team to take a chance on Ray Rice?

JANAY RICE, RAY RICE'S WIFE: For them to look past this situation, which I know is going to be hard, but at the end of the day, he's a football player and that's what they should be really be focused on because he's proven himself as a football player for seven years. There's never been a question on what he can do on the field.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Janay Rice made those comments in her first TV interview since her husband was suspended indefinitely by the NFL. That suspension was overruled by a judge who called it arbitrary. He is now free to sign with any NFL team. But before she spoke with NBC, Janay Rice spoke almost a month ago, November 5th to be precise, with Jemele Hill of ESPN.

And Jemele joins me now. It was Janay Rice in her own words posted Friday after Ray Rice's suspension was overturned.

Jemele, welcome back to the show.

JEMELE HILL, ESPN REPORTER: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: So you talked to my colleague, Brian Stelter, and you said as it pertains to this piece, it was collaboration, not a dictatorship. What do you mean by collaboration?

HILL: Well, I think people hear the fact that she had final approval and in their mind, they envisioned a scenario where I'm presenting information and she's arbitrarily deciding, no, that doesn't go in there, that doesn't go in there. She was interviewed by me for about two-and-a-half hours, for one. So some of the same questions that people saw Matt Lauer ask her, well, I asked her that and more over the course of that period of time. And I presented -- she was presented with a first draft. And I can tell you pretty much the majority of what she was presented in that first draft is still -- was still in the published piece. The only things that were left out, for one, it would have never been anything that would have compromised any journalistic integrity.

BALDWIN: And what would it be? Because that's my question to you, as a journalist, if there was anything that was taken out, I'm curious, if you had that voice inside of you saying, this is not right?

HILL: No, nothing like that that ever occurred. We had no philosophical differences with this piece. And realized, although she had final approval, we always reserved the right to not publish this interview. And that was a decision and a pact that we had going in, that if we were not comfortable with the final project, we just simply weren't going to print it.

BALDWIN: Let me talk about, you know, just the meat in the interview in the minute-and-a-half I have with you. You have said you agree with Janay Rice, that Ray Rice deserves a chance to rejoin the NFL. Tell me why.

HILL: Well, if you looked at the NFL's history, especially with players, there are players who have committed and been convicted of some very serious crimes. I mean, Josh Brent, he is a Dallas Cowboy now. He was convicted of killing one of his teammates in a tragic DUI incident. He's playing football. Dante Stallworth who was also convicted of killing a man in a car accident, he was allowed to play football and play for several other teams. Michael Vick went to prison. He's playing football. So, let's not pretend that Ray Rice is the first NFL player to run a file of the law and receive a second chance. There's a pretty good track record of them all receiving them.

BALDWIN: Do you think a team will take him?

HILL: I do. I don't know if it will be this season. But I think eventually they will. This is a talent-based, production-based business. That's what the NFL does. They put on this football teams and teams have to win. And he was a pretty good running back. He had a down year in 2013. But I fully expect that another team at some point will give him a chance.

BALDWIN: All right, Jemele Hill of the ESPN, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate it.

And I'm out of time folks. I'm Brooke Baldwin here live in New York. Thank you so much for being with me. See you back here tomorrow.

In the meantime, let's go to Washington. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.