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Dr. Drew
Janay Rice Speaks Out For The First Time On Camera Since Her Husband Was Suspended From Football For Slugging Her In An Elevator; Another Cosby Accuser Comes Forward And Shares A 30-Year Secret About Him; You Can Go To Jail For Making Threats On Twitter And Facebook, Even If You Claim They Are Jokes; A Man Was Sentenced To Prison For What He Wrote On Social Media
Aired December 01, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Janay Rice speaks out, for the first time on camera since her husband was suspended from football for
slugging her in an elevator. What was behind her press conference apology?
Plus, another Cosby accuser comes forward. She has kept a secret about him for three decades. Does her story change everything? Let us get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host here Samantha Schacher, and coming up, social media and free speech, Sam. What are the limits?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST OF DR. DREW ON CALL: Well, that is right, Dr. Drew. Here is the thing, you could go to jail for making threats on
Twitter and Facebook, even if you claim they are jokes. And, now even the Supreme Court is weighing in.
PINSKY: I have got a few people I could recommend to the Supreme Court.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: I am just saying if all the stuff rains down on me in Twitter. It is unbelievable. All right, but first story is Ray Rice`s wife, Janay, she
tells her story about the night he knocked her out inside the Casino elevator. We have all seen the shocking video. Now, Janay reveals why she
is standing by her husband. Listen to what she told Matt Lauer on NBC`s "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANAY RICE, RAY RICE`S WIFE: I was furious. We came home and we did not talk the entire ride. Well, I did not speak to him the entire ride home.
He tried to talk to me. I did not want to hear any of it. I just knew he hit me, and I was completely over it.
I was done, did not want to hear anything. I just did not even want to entertain it, entertain him, anything that he had to say, any explanation.
Of course in the back of my mind and in my heart, I knew that our relationship would not be over, because I know this is us, not him.
MATT LAUER, NCB HOST OF "TODAY": Was there ever any incident of violence in your relationship with Ray or has there been any incident of violence
since that elevator incident?
RICE: No. No. That is no way. He knows what he would have to deal with, you know, if this was something -- you know, I am not going to sit there in
silence and let something happen to me. And, you know, god forbid in front of my child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us Vanessa Barnett from HipHollywood.com, Mark Eiglarsh from Speaktomark.com, Loni Coombs, Attorney, Author of "You`re Perfect...
Another Lies Parents Tell."
Sam, lots of our friends on Facebook do not believe Janay. I was just thinking she was saying how she was taken home and not talking to her. Why
did not he take her to the hospital?
SCHACHER: You would think that is what he should have done.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: But, as you stated, our viewers on Facebook, they do not believe this was the very first incident or, you know, that this was the only
incident.
PINSKJY: So, they just do not buy what she is saying.
SCHACHER: The elevator incident. So, I have in Lynn. Lynn writes, "First time? No way. Sue, his first punch ever, really? From Amy, "This clearly
was not the first time. Usually it starts as a slap and then keeps escalating at each occurent."
PINSKY: She is not off base there. Mark, did hearing the story from Janay change your perception of her and her involvement in this whole incident.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it made me get an impression that was not too favorable. And, here is what I mean, no
question she was a victim; but for her to say that he has never done this before, it is possible. But he does a terrific impression on that video of
someone who has beaten her before.
And, the second thing, Dr. Drew, is to say that this was a mistake and, quote, "We all make mistakes." listen, I leave the toilet seat up. That
is a mistake. We do not all treat our wives like pinatas. That is not a mistake.
PINSKY: Yes. Loni, a crime is not a mistake. Assault is not a mistake. Knocking somebody out?
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: That is like, what are you going to do?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Absolutely. It makes it sound like most men hit their wives. Most men do not hit women. Their entire life they go without
hitting anybody. And, I will tell you going to what you are saying, was this the first time? On that videotape, the way he responds after he
knocks her out, cold the lack of sympathy, the lack of response, she was questioned about that by Matt Lauer.
She said, "Oh, he was in shock. In shock"? I mean it was not like the first he is seeing violence. He is a football player. They hit each
other. You see people go down all the time. That is not in shock. That is lack of caring. That is lack of any, you know, "Whoa, this happened one
more time, here we go."
PINSKY: I would have called the paramedics. Now, Janay saw the videotape of Ray dragging her out as Loni saying, she was unconscious. She was
unconscious. He has dragged her out. Now, listen to what she told NBC`S Matt Lauer about reliving that particular moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICE: I asked him, after I saw it. Why did you just leave me there like that?
LAUER: Did you see that part?
RICE: Yes. That is the one --
LAUER: One from the outside.
RICE: I asked --
LAUER: Why did not you comfort me --
RICE: Yes. He said, he was terrified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You know, the behavior bureau is going to have a field day with this. She is laughing and smiling about an extraordinarily problematic
situation. Vanessa, is she trying to save Ray`s job, save their livelihood? What do you think she is doing here?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No. I think she is being 100 percent honest. I think she is very uncomfortable. I think this is something she
wants to relive. This is something that as a family, they have prayed about. They have gone through counseling and they are trying to put it
behind them.
I know and I will probably get flax for this. But, I know the type of man my husband is. He would never lay a finger on me. But if one day he did
drink too much and we are spitting at each other and slapping each other and punching each other and it gets out of line, I do not think I could
even fathom that, that came from him. So, I understand her saying that this is --
PINSKY: But, Vanessa, I cannot fathom what you are describing would happen between a couple out of the blue. It does not go like that. That is why
it would not hap. That is why you cannot fathom it because it builds to that. It does not just all of a sudden happen. Now, Ray Rice --
BARNETT: But, I do not think --
PINSKY: Hang on a second. He calls it one bad night and saying one bad night should not define him or his relationship or his career. One bad
night. Oh, well, just one of those accidents. Matt Lauer from "Today" then asked him why should another NFL team give him a second chance. Have
a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY RICE, JANAY RICE`S HUSBAND: They will have to be, you know, willing to look deeper into who I am and realize that me and my wife had one bad night
and I took full responsibility for it. And, one thing about my punishment and everything going along with anything that happens is I have accepted
it.
I went fully forward with it. I never complained or did anything like that. I took full responsibility for everything I did. The only thing I
can hope and wish for is a second chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa, I am all for second chances for people. But, I do not know what it means by taking responsibility except saying, "Hey, I did
that."
BARNETT: I think that is the only responsibility he could have take. What he is saying is when he was punished, when he was punished again and when
the media was a firestorm against him, he took it. He did not try to defend himself like, "Oh, she hit me first. So, do X,Y and Z." He took
it.
He did not defend himself and he did not try to cover it over with some kind of farce. Like this family is really trying to recover. Did you see
the mother? She is a no nonsense type of woman. If she thought for an ounce, for a second that her daughter was a battered woman, she would rip
her out household.
PINSKY: She is a battered woman. We watched her get battered.
EIGLARSH: She is.
BARNETT: She was hit but she does not want the label of a victim. She believes this was a one-time incident. And, if she is forgiven her
husband, who are we to sit here and try to condemn them --
PINSKY: I am not condemning her.
BARNETT: -- and tell them they cannot live like a happily ever after.
PINSKY: That will work with treatment.
BARNETT: They feel like this was a mistake.
PINSKY: I am just playing this --
BARNETT: They have had counseling. And, I believe --
PINSKY: They are going to need a lot more.
SCHACHER: Right. They will need a lot more, counseling. And, Vanessa, the reason why he cap to it because it was caught on camera, you know?
And, I want to give him a second chance.
BARNETT: But, we do not know what happened behind the doors.
SCHACHER: OK. But, they were together for quite some time. I do not think this was the very first incident. If they were together just a
matter of a few weeks, so it is maybe--
PINSKY: Mark, last thought. I have got to go.
EIGLARSH: OK. One other thing that makes me question her credibility is that she sat at the press conference with the Ravens and said that it was
her fault, some of the actions she brought on herself --
PINSKY: Well, yes. Yes.
EIGLARSH: -- and then she later in that interview said, "No, no, I was told to say that.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
EIGLARSH: So, now your credibility is in question.
BARNETT: No.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on. We have to let it go there. I have to say, though, that Janay says Ray never hit her before, before that particular assault
that we all witnessed. Should she stand by him or not?
Go to our show page at hlntv.com to vote. We will have the results. And, later, another Cosby accuser comes forward. You will meet the woman who
shares a 30-year secret with us. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): We know what he did was wrong, but the penalty is what they gave him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Do you think he will play again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Yes. Absolutely. Somebody will pick him up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): I am not sure if I was the owner if I would.
JANAY RICE: At the end of the day, he is a football player and that is what they should be focused on because he has proven himself as a football
player for seven years. There has never been a question on what he can do on the field.
LAUER: And, do you think an owner and fans of the team can get that image or those images from that elevator tape out of their minds?
JANAY RICE: With time. We know it is going to take some time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is Janay Rice on NBC`s "Today" show with Matt Lauer. I am back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist,
Professor at Pepperdine University, Erica America, Psychotherapist/television host; Jennifer Keith, life coach.
Janay says she has seen the tape of ray Rice dragging her out of the elevator, but she refuses to watch the video of Ray Rice knocking her out.
Matt Lauer asked her on NBC`s "Today" why? Take a look.
(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAUER: Had you seen the tape?
JANAY RICE: I saw the first one.
LAUER: So, did you see it before it was released to the public?
JANAY RICE: No. We just knew about it.
LAUER: You knew about it. Were you dreading the moment that that tape came out?
JANAY RICE: Yes, yes. We knew that it was going to happen. We did not know exactly when it was going to happen, but there was no preparedness for
that at all. When I saw that, it was horrible.
We cannot make excuses for anything, but we were highly intoxicated and in the moment you are now thinking about, "Oh, my God! I am on camera in an
elevator. So, of course people are going to read into everything and pick it everything about this situation. We understand that.
LAUER: Have you seen the second tape?
JANAY RICE: No. I refuse. I refuse. I am not going to let the public bring me back there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Erica, she will not watch the tape of her husband punching her? What is that all about?
ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/TELEVISION HOST: Well, to me -- you know, at first, I want to say this is very complex and it is hard to say she
should do this or she should do that whether -- if we are not in that position. But, then I have been thinking about this more and more and I
feel like there is some sort of denial coming from her -- from Janay.
You know, I think that she seems like a really nice person and she really wants to support her husband. But it feels like she does not want to see
the video because it is the truth. Seeing the cold, hard truth is really, really difficult to see and she wants to kind of put it in a box, put it
back there and say, "It did not happen" and she wants to move forward.
And, you know, I see what people were saying in the last block that they want to move forward. But, I do not know if she is really, really going
through the grief and the counseling that she needs to go over the fact that the man that she loves knocked her out and could have killed her and
then walked away from her and almost left her to die.
SCHACHER: You know, I think --
AMERICA: That is something serious.
SCHACHER: I think you are right, Erica. But, also, we have the remember that she was hitting him and she was spitting on him. So, I think both of
them need continued treatment and counseling. So, my question to you Judy is, let us say he does have this history of domestic violence, and she
herself, how can somebody be rehabilitated through treatment and how long does that typically take if it even works at all?
JUDY HO, CLINICL PSYCHOLOGIST: It takes two willing participants to actually go through the therapeutic process, Sam. And, that is what I
worry about here. The more denial that is happening and the more that they want to sweep it under the rug, the more it is not going to actually work
and the more that the violence will persist and come back up.
And, I know that both of them are saying this is the first time that they actually came to blows. There was never physical violence before, but I
really doubt that there was not emotional and verbal abuse going on, because that is what escalates to physical violence.
PINSKY: Right.
HO: So, until the two of them can really actually look at themselves and realized that both of them need to improve their communication skills,
which takes honestly, typically, even with a very skilled therapist, and two willing participants at least six months to a year of continued
treatment.
PINSKY: Oh, at least. That is right, continued treatment. But, Jennifer, you are nodding your head. You agree with that?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Yes, because the reality of it is, valuing one`s self would demand more than what Janay is demanding. That is the
part that really breaks my heart. I have seen this over and over again with women that have been abused.
She got to value herself enough to say, "No, Ray. You will not hit me." "I will watch. I will see the truth. I will empower myself to be better
in this situation." And, it just was not there. It was not there for her. It was not there for her mom. It was not there for him. Nobody is saying
--
PINSKY: What about the mom, Jennifer? What is the mom doing sitting there by her side during this interview from the "Today" show?
KEITT: That is the part saying --
PINSKY: Is that a strategic move or is this the part -- could mom be speculating? Could mom have been a victim herself in sort of?
KEITT: I could not ever imagine myself in that position as a mother --
PINSKY: Ever.
KEITT: -- of a 20 something-year-old woman, not being completely ballistic. Her responses to me really ripped my heart out when I watched
this. Because I have got three daughters and there is no way I would excuse a boyfriend or a husband the way that mom did.
PINSKY: Absolutely.
KEITT: I am sorry. I just could not do it. I could not do it.
PINSKY: Erica, I see you are trying to jump in. Go ahead, Erica.
AMERICA: Yes. I think there is a lot of enabling going on. I, absolutely, have no doubt that she loves her daughter. But, we have to
think how famous this man is, how much money he has and how much that has driven their life for so long and you have to know that means something.
Even if they are not thinking of it that way, they want their life to kind of go in that direction the same way.
PINSKY: They want everything back.
KEITT: But, there is no back.
AMERICA: They want it back.
KEITT: But, how much millions is our lives worth? How many millions is her sex worth? --
AMERICA: No. I agree with you.
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: -- Her esteem worth?
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: That is absolutely crazy.
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: You got to beyond it.
PINSKY: And, you see the evidence of someone of her denial and the deflection as Janay is angry with the Ravens --
AMERICA: Yes.
PINSKY: The NFL Commissioner, Roger Goodell. --
AMERICA: Right
PINSKY: The media, everyone, she is angry with she is blaming --
AMERICA: Right.
PINSKY: -- which is a form of denial, right? The rationalization. I hate to think that SHE has to look at herself in terms of a participant in all
this, but she blames everybody except her husband. Judy.
HO: Right, Dr. Drew. And, you know what? This is, absolutely, her not taking responsibility and they have a child. They have a young daughter.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
HO: And, I really worry about what kind of example they are going to set for this young daughter and what the trajectory of that daughter`s life is
going to be. So, what if they have money. If they do not have stable parents who can provide good emotional role modeling, this is going to be
trouble evrybody.
SCHACHER: And, let us not forget that these were high school sweethearts.
HO: Right.
SCHACHER: So, they have been together for years. How do we know how normative this behavior was to them before it was outed by the media.
KEITT: I think she needs to take a look -- If she would take a look at that video, I would hope --
PINSKY: Yes. I agree with you.
KEITT: -- and say, "Oh, my God! I cannot believe I let this happen to me."
PINSKY: You know why? It would break through the denial.
KEITT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: When I saw that video, that is what made it so vivid for me. That is right, Erica. I was like, you cannot believe it. It tells the story.
KEITT: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Now, our poll. Should she stand by her man? Tonight, we are asking you, should Janay Rice stand by her husband? Vote in our web poll
at hlntv.com/drdrew and as well on our Facebook page.
As of right now, 77 percent of you say no, Janay should not stand by her husband. That is about the way this panel went. Vanessa was saying yes,
and most everyone else no. All right, thank you, guys.
Next up, the reporter who is finally writing about what she says Bill Cosby may have done decades ago. And, later, can threatening someone on social
media -- can you threaten them and get away with it. That is our most tweeted story of the day. We will discuss it, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTINA RUEHLI, ANOTHER COSBY ACCUSER: I had two drinks that I am clear about. He had his hand on the back of my head, and he was trying to push
it towards his (EXPLICITIVE WORDS) penis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA VALENTINO, ONE OF COSBY ACCUSERS: Nobody believed you, who would have believed me, playmate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMARA GREEN, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: I did not know if he was going to kill me or rape me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESE SERIGNESE, ANOTHER COSBY ACCUSER: Feeling drugged and him having sex with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANICE DICKINSON, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: The last thing I remember was Bill Cosby in a patchwork robe, dropping his robe and getting on top of
me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA JOY TRAITZ, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He started grabbing at my chest and, you know, starting to fondle me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH FERRIER, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: "People" magazine believed us, believed me. And that piece then family dropped me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLA FERRIGNO, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He grabbed me, pulls me like really tight to him, kisses me in the mouth like really, really rough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN TARSHIS, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: I remember is being on his couch with him taking my clothes off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA BOWMAN, ONE OF BILL COSBY`S ACCUSERS: I was in a white t-shirt and my panties, and he was looming over me in a white robe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Some of that tape was from "Entertainment Tonight" as well as KFI. Back with Sam and Sam, you have got some breaking news, right?
SCHACHER: I do. So, he resigned from the Board of Trustees from his Alma Mater Temple University. Also, he stepped down last week from a fund-
raising post from your Alma Mater, which is --
PINSKY: No. The school nearby, the UMASS.
SCHACHER: Yes. That is right. OK.
PINSKY: UMASS.
SCHACHER: I thought you were in UMASS --
PINSKY: But, he was there -- he was actually there getting his Ph.D. when I was at the college and I remember his wife and all her Louis Vitton
luggage showing up.
SCHACHER: Really? How many bags?
PINSKY: Lots.
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh! OK.
PINSKY: I was just waiting my stuff, you know, I was waiting fo my old duffle --
SCHACHER: Of course, your one backpack.
PINSKY: Right in college. What are you going to do?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: All right. Joining us, I got Charlotte Laws. She reported in "Salon" that she met Cosby through a friend back in 1980. That same
friend, who she calls Sandy, later told Charlotte that Cosby had drugged her and then had sex with her.
Here is a quote from Sandy that -- that Charlotte, you put from Sandy in your article. Quote, Bill drugged me last night, then had sex with me. I
do not understand it. It is not like I would have said no to anything."
Charlotte, fill this out for me. I read your article in "Salon" and so she was someone who had a consensual relationship with him. She did not
understand why he would drug her. Is that right?
CHARLOTTE LAWS, JOURNALIST: Right. I mean it make no sense to her and she was so really pretty sexually wild and she was willing to go along with
anything. And, you know, it did not make any sense.
PINSKY: Did she understand it or think of it as a rape or did you even?
LAWS: No, she did not ever categorize it that way and I never thought of it as sexual assault because she did not categorized that way, and I felt
since she was the victim of the drugging. It was her decision to decide how to define it.
And, I also thought it was a one-off. I mean I did not think that he was drugging other women. I mean she did not either. That was not something
that we anticipated at that time. And, we thought -- she thought it was intentional.
I thought maybe it was some kind of an accident. Maybe he had given her something that reacted in an unusual and unexpected way and had knocked her
out. And, you know, one time it happened and it would never happen again.
PINSKY: And, people are struggling with why women are waiting so long to discuss this. Is that why you waited so long to bring this forward, it was
not until you heard the other stories, you thought maybe something is going on here? And, as a second part to that question, you have described him,
your relationship with him as something very appealing.
LAWS: Yes. I mean, he was always respectful with me, caring, generous with his time. He never offered me a pill. I mean I never saw that side
of him. And, so it is like these two different personalities. It was hard for me to put that all together. But, I did not even think about coming
forward until 2005, because I did not think there was anything to come forward about.
And, in 2005 is when I heard the first woman came forward with her story and I thought, "Oh, my god, I can corroborate this. I know about this. I
have known about this since 1981. There are other victims out there." And, that is when I was in a quandary. I did not know what to do. Should
I come forward. Should I not.
And, I was not a victim myself, so I thought, you know, should I really come forward because I am not an actual victim. I am just someone who knew
about this for so many years. And, then what happened is other women started coming forward to corroborate the first woman`s story and I
thought, "I am not need."
But, I think that was a mistake. I think it is very important that people come forward and say what the truth is and not just assume someone else
will take care of the problem.
SCHACHER: And, that is what I thought was so powerful when they read your article, Charlotte, was the fact that you said it is never too late to come
forward. And, I think that resonates with a lot of people. But, also, you saw Bill Cosby after, right? After that one incident --
PINSKY: In 2005.
SCHACHER: -- in 2005, so how was your relationship post? Did you ever confront him about your girlfriend? Have you heard from him as of recent?
LAWS: No. The last time I saw him was in 2005. And, I had arrangements to go backstage with my family when he was performing in Oakland,
California. And, the allegation from the first woman had just surfaced. It was all over the news that particular day.
And, so that is when I was in this quandary. I mean should I cancel? Should I go backstage? Should I confront him, should I not? I did not
really know what to do. And, when I walked in the dressing room, he said, did I ever drug you?
So, it was like a way for him to defuse the tension of the news story, and maybe also to test me to see what I was going to say to that, if I was
going to say something about Sandy or not.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Charlotte, I am going to ask you to stand by for a second. I want to bring our panel in. We will hear more from you in a second. I have got
Vanessa, Mark and Loni. Now, Mark, this relationship was consensual and even Charlotte reported that Sandy accepted money at the end of this
relationship.
Though Charlotte was very clear to point out both Mr. Cosby and in her article that her girlfriend was not a prostitute. Does all that change the
way we understand what happened here?
EIGLARSH: No. I am still very disturbed. What I cannot figure out, and I kind of wish this is the behavior bureau, but maybe you can answer this. I
do not understand when someone is in a consensual relationship --
PINSKY: Yes. Why -- I know.
EIGLARSH: If the object --
SCHACHER: Yes.
EIGLARSH: I do not get it. I am struggling with it. I need an answer.
PINSKJY: Well, there are people -- listen.
EIGLARSH: Why drug someone?
PINSKY: Well, first of all --
EIGLARSH: Why?
PINSKY: Let us just say, we cannot corroborate any of these stories. This is Charlotte reporting. We cannot corroborate reports in any of these
stories --
EIGLARSH: Correct.
PINSKY: But, there are people that have fetishes about people being asleep and there are people do things that they do not want people to see when
they are awake. That is just in my clinical experience. I do not have any notion of this being anything to do with these cases. But, you asked the
question. Loni, I want to ask you something. If Sandy did not think she was raped. If this happened, was this a crime?
COOMBS: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. Just because she would have consented to it, if she had been awake does not make it not a rape, because you cannot
consent if you are unconscious. So, it is still considered a rape even if she would said yes, but because she was unconscious and unable to consent,
it is considered to be a rape.
PINSKY: Vanessa, the fact that these women waited so long, the fact that they were consensual, does it cause you to see things differently?
BARNETT: No. At this point, I think that is just way too many allegations for anyone to turn a blind eye. But what I do believe is I do not have a
background in mental health, but to me it seems as though he really does not believe that he was doing anything wrong. I think he automatically
assumed any woman in his present would want to have sex with him. He was a big man at the time. Big man on campus. Had a lot of power.
I just think he automatically assume that. And, I think he like using drugs and alcohol, because men like to view women -- not men, not all men,
but I think he likes women with lower inhibitions. I think he likes to fell dominant. I think he likes to feel in control of the scenario. No
matter what, if they said yes or not.
PINSKY: You know, Vanessa. We have all this footage from him talking about -- remember that Spanish fly?
BARNETT: Spanish fly.
PINSKY: We have all seen the footage of him doing a comedy act in the 70s about that. But, I got an interview with him with Larry King, we brought
it up again. I wonder if that informs us in any way about the drug --
SCHACHER: But, he had to know that he was -- come on!
PINSKY: But, I want to play.
SCHACHER: He is not dummy. He knew what he was doing.
COOMBS: That is why he was so secretive about it.
PINSKY: Listen. What I want to do is I am going to take a break. Mark, finish up and I am going to take a break and I want to play that tape for
you, but go ahead. Mark.
EIGLARSH: There is a difference between wanting to be with a woman with lower inhibitions and --
PINSKY: For somebody who is unconscious.
EIGLARSH: -- for someone who is comatose.
PINSKY: Yes. I know. I get it.
PINSKY: I do not think he see the difference.
PINSKY: All right. I have got to go. Just remind people that Janice Dickinson is still out there. She has some new things to say about Cosby`s
alleged attack on her. You can see that. I believe -- is it later tonight on CNN, is that correct? And, later, this man was sentenced to prison for
what he wrote on social media. Is he protected by free speech or not? We will be back to discuss that. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICKINSON: I did not know. This has affected me in my house. It is affecting me. It is really affected these women, but I am strong. I am
going to stand on my own two feet and I am going to tell my side of the story and it is not going to end here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our guest, writer, Charlotte Law. She reports that a friend of hers was drugged by Bill Cosby more than 30 years
ago. That of course was Janice Dickinson who claims that Bill Cosby raped her. That full interview airs on CNN at 10:00 Eastern Time tonight.
Now, Cosby`s attorney, Marty Singer, maintains that her rape allegations are, quote, "A fabricated lie," unquote. He continues to point out what he
says are inconsistencies in her stories over the years. He seems to be, Sam, trying to maintain an old school defense, which in the day of social
media seems like it is not going to work.
SCHACHER: No. No. You want transparency and asking for forgiveness.
PINSKY: Whatever it is, what he is attempting is something that they used to do and it used to work including the horse is out of the barn. But,
Charlotte, one of the things that I have noticed and put that tweet up I was showing you guys, that people are struggling with why the women have
waited until now? Is that tweet going to go up there by any chance? I kind of want to read that to people.
I got it here. It is from Sandra -- there she is. She says, "Cosby`s allegations are absurd. Out of 15 women, no one had the courage to come
out before the 30-year mark." Wow! That is the predominant criticism, Charlotte, I am hearing.
How can you help people understand that? You and I were talking about how the landscape for women coming forward has change so much across those 30
years. it is almost hard for young people to understand.
LAWS: It is. I mean if you look at statistic. I saw one statistic that said that 95 percent of rape victims do not come forward and the statistics
are even worse when you are talking about someone being drugged because their memories become quite hazy. And, women are used to blaming
themselves. They are used to society looks at women like, "Oh, it is your own fault that you got rape, especially --
PINSKY: Or you are tainted.
LAWS: Yes. You are tainted. That is how women feel often times. They may feel it is their fault because they went to Bill Cosby`s house or his
suite. Maybe they took the pill.
PINSKY: Or in her case she accepted money. Did that complicate how she was feeling about these things?
LAWS: You know, I do not think so with her. I mean she was not there for money. That was just something that was great. I mean if he wants to give
it to me, that is terrific. I never saw her as a money motivated person.
And, at one point when she and I and Bill were in his dressing room at the Hilton in Las Vegas, he offered her $2,000 to grow her hair down to her
waist. And, then he turned to me and he said he would buy me $1,000 worth of clothing at my favorite clothing store if I helped her grow her hair
down to the waist.
SCHACHER: Wow.
LAWS: And, when we left the dressing room that night, I said, are you going to grow your hair and she goes, "Nah, I do not think so."
SCHACHER: That sounds controlling. Is that sort of a sign of control?
PINSKY: Well, we will get the panel on here a second. Charlotte, one last question. Do you have any sense of why he might, if he did in fact,
drugged these women, why he would have done so?
LAWS: You know, I just have to assume that maybe he got excited over the idea of a woman being out. I mean I really do not know. My experience
with him, as I said earlier, is that he was sweet and generous and charming. And, I never saw that bad side of him.
So, it is really hard for me. It is incongruous to me as I am trying to put all of these together with these two different personalities and
hearing what Sandy told me, hearing what the other victims say, and I completely believe them.
You know, it all kind of does not go together for me and it is very difficult. But I definitely feel it is important for people to come
forward with the truth and discuss this issue. And, I am encouraged by the fact that if you talked to the rape hotlines right now, they will say that
since the Bill Cosby story has been so public, that people are calling and reporting rape. It is a 50 percent increase since this story went public
in the last couple of weeks.
PINSKY: That is very, very good news.
SCHACHER: Wow.
LAWS: So, it is contributing to the conversation in America.
PINSKY: Now, Charlotte, standby again. Thank you, by the way, for joining us tonight. I want to show my panel a fascinating interview we found from
1991. Bill Cosby was on CNN promoting a book. He tells an interesting story. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL COSBY: "The Spanish Fly" was the thing that all boys from age 11 on up to death, we will still be searching for Spanish Fly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That is right.
COSBY: And what was the old story was, if you took a little drop -- it was on the head of a pin. And, you put it -- and the girl would drink it and,
hello, America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let us bring in our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica and Jennifer. Erica, I know you are trying to jump in while I am talking to Charlotte.
He has this fascination with this magical potion that makes women altered. What do you think?
AMERICA: I think that was interesting that Charlotte brought up the hair thing, because that is immediately what jumped out at me at reading her
wonderful article. In that he wants to manipulate, not only that he go to her and asked her I want long hair on you. He went to the friend and
offered money. That is very cunning. That is something -- there might even be some anti-social personality traits here that I do not know about,
but it could be.
PINSKY: Well, it is narcissism.
AMERICA: This is someone that really knew how to --
PINSKY: I think there has never been any evidence of anti-social in here.
AMERICA: Well, he seems to have no remorse, if this is true.
PINSKY: Well, this could be narcissism.
AMERICA: All these women are coming out.
PINSKY: Yes, it could be. Jennifer, what do you think? What is your take? --
AMERICA: I just want to say one other thing.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Erica. Say it.
AMERICA: Dr. Drew, something else bothers me. The fact to the matter is, women have been talking about this for decades, victims. And, why is it
that took a male comedian to say something for this conversation to come up? That really bothers me.
PINSKY: Yes, it bothers me too.
AMERICA: Why did we not listen to the women?
PINSKY: But, you know what? At least we seem to be kind of listening now. Jennifer, do you agree?
KEITT: Yes. I agree with that whole heartedly. I am heartbroken. I mean I do not even know how else to say it, because I mean I grew up on Cosby.
If it not had been for "The Cosby Show." I think about that.
You know my husband and I were raising kids at the same time he was on television. So, I have really struggled with this. I think most
importantly, I think it is a wakeup call for celebrity sex and men with power and women who go along with.
And, I am not accusing the victim, so do not blast me on Twitter, but what I am saying is, I do not know that this would be an issue if he was not a
powerful person and the fact that they were silenced for so long, it is because it is so unbelievable because of his power.
I cannot believe 12 women, no mothers, no brothers, no aunts, no uncles, no community, nobody that they could go to that would listen against this one
man? He was not savior of the world. So, I am disheartened by this whole situation.
PINSKY: And, again, at this point, this is all allegations. This is not a legal matter. This is a public conversation about allegations. Judy, I
saw you nodding your head a lot in what Charlotte was saying then I got to take a break.
HO: Well, Dr. Drew. Here is how I see it. You know, with somebody like Bill Cosby and other people who may be alleged rapists, they do not really
have to have the sex that way. That is not really the point. He obviously can get sex whenever he wants.
Charlotte is friend is somebody he was already in a relationship with sexually. So, it is about the power and the domination, feeling superior
and wanting to prove something. These are the characteristics that we know are common among rapists. I know again this just an allegation, but here
is what I observed.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, our most tweeted story of the day. Thank you, panel. Thank you, Charlotte. Social media crossing the line. We are
going to get into it. The Supreme Court is getting into it, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY ELONIS, MAN WHO THREATENED HIS WIFE ON SOCIAL MEDIA: There is one way to love you, but a thousand ways to kill you. I am not going to rest
until your body is a mess, soaked in blood and dying from all the little cuts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: How far you could go in a Facebook or Twitter post may be decided in a case before the Supreme Court this morning.
Anthony Elonis is hoping to get his conviction for threatening his soon to be ex-wife overturned.
ELONIS: Fold up your Protection-from-abuse-order and put it in your pocket. Is it thick enough to stop a bullet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Elonis posted graphically violent rap lyrics about his wife on Facebook and was sentenced to 44 months in prison. He
claims the post for artistic, cathartic free speech.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Mark and Judy. When does an online threat cross the line? That is the question now before the Supreme Court. They
are looking at a case of a Pennsylvania man who has a history of what has been called threatening Facebook posts. This is our most tweeted story of
the day. And, Sam, there is some back story in this case.
SCHACHER: Yes. That was chilling, watching that. Right?
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Listening to that.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Gosh. So, his name is Anthony Elonis. He is 31 years old and his Faceback posts managed to target and terrify everyone from his co-
workers to his ex-wife. Now, in 2010, his wife left him and took their two children and over a two-month period, he posted comments on Facebook about
killing her.
He also posted Facebook comments about shooting up a kindergarten class. He also lost his job at an amusement park when he referred to himself in a
Facebook post as, quote, "A nuclear bomb" and accused his co-workers of "F"-ing with the bomb`s timer. Now, get this, his attorney argues that
posts are an artistic expression compares to rap lyrics and his client never intended to act out those words but critics are saying that this is a
legitimate threat.
PINSKY: Listen. I do not know how many times -- Judy, you are laughing at that? Let us bring the panel in here. Why are you laughing?
HO: If that is his idea of artistic expression, I would like to see what other kind of art he is producing.
PINSKY: Right. Whatever. It gets weird when you start restricting the expression of art, I understand that. But how many times have we sat here,
Mark, and complained about people not taking action when terrible posts on social media have predicted horrible behavior?
EIGLARSH: Right and kudos to her for doing it. And, a jury found he was guilty and he went away for a while and the Supreme Court may not disturb
that, but they may. Saying that while offensive and outrageous speech, this is artistic expression, he has no intention of acting upon these
threats.
It is merely acting like Emenem rap. I am not saying this is not me. This is just gus artistic expressions like Eminem, talking about rape
fantasies and stuff like that. So, again, we will see what the Supreme Court does.
PINSKY: All right, Vanessa, I am going to show you a Facebook post by Anthony Elonis. This is what initiated the FBI visit. Quote, "Enough
elementary schools in a 10-mile radius to initiate the most heinous school shooting ever imagined. Hell hath no fury like a crazy man in a
kindergarten class."
SCHACHER: Oh my God!
PINSKY: So, Vanessa, is it OK? Is it artistic expression?
BARNETT: First and foremost, he has to be the worst rapper alive. Those are not rap lyrics. That is of him being obnoxious and ignorant.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes, I agree.
BARNETT: Second of all, to me it is very clear. Yes, you have the right to free speech, but when you use your speech as a weapon, you will be
prosecuted. Just like I have the right to bear arms, but if I come in here pointing guns in your face, you are going to have me arrested.
It is very cut and drive. You are attacking people with your words. And, this woman filled out restraining orders. She needed protection against
him. If it reaches that point, you have now gone too far. You are fringing on my right.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on, Mark. Hold your thought. I want to take a break. Then I will get Mark to comment. We will also share with you what you all
are saying in social media about social media and free speech. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Mark and Judy. We are discussing social media and free speech. Today, in the Supreme Court, the government used
the analogy of a bomb threat, saying it does not matter how hard the comment is intended to be, what matters is the panic and disruption it
causes. And, Sam, what did we hear from the justices during the proceedings?
SCHACHER: OK. So, we have from Justice Samuel Alito says, "This sounds like a road map for threatening a spouse and getting away with it. So, you
put it in a rhyme and say I am an aspiring rap artist and so then you are free from prosecution?" However, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg says, "How
does one prove what is in somebody else`s mind? How would the government prove whether a threat in a mind of the threatener was genuine?"
PINSKY: All right, Mark, you adjudicate.
EIGLARSH: Well, let me say this. I cannot do it without a smile, but his own lawyer wrote that after those misogynistic horrible lyrics, he then put
an emoticon of a smiley face suggesting jest. So, it is like Samantha Schacher, I want to kill you, smiley face.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Passive aggressive.
PINSKY: Vanessa, it seems like -- Well, Sam, it would be those unanimity in this social media world.
SCHACHER: This is the first time that I have ever seen our viewers on social media collectively agree that a threat is a threat.
PINSKY: And, in the control room, you are putting tweets up that are indeed -- I agree. So, everyone is in agreement right now and even our
panel is in agreement, which is extraordinarily unusual. But Judy, my hope is that some day we learn how to interpret what we are seeing in social
media to really understand who is in trouble and who is not.
Justice Ginsburg said, "We cannot read the mind of somebody," but you have to -- you kind to predict, you know? That is what we do in mental health
and in medicine, We make predictions and try to get in the way of things going badly.
HO: That is right. And, if I was treating this individual, I believe that I would be a mandated reporter of his actions because he actually cited
specific actions to specific people. But, you are right, social media is still new for all of us.
It has just been recently that, that has become social medial viral justice. So, we really need to figure out exactly what we can assess from
somebody`s writing when they are postin online.
PINSKY: And, interestingly, Vanessa, you know, tonight we have had several different stories where there is not been criminal behavior, but there has
been a public discussion in social media that has had real consequence and it has been about behavior that may or may not had been criminal but
outside the courtroom now. And, we are sort of being judge and jury in social media most of the time, are not we?
BARNETT: Absolutely. We are public judge and jury, as we should be. Look, we are told so many times, if you see something, say something. If
we are all seeing these red flags, it is our right -- It is our God given right and it is our sduty now to say something, because if we do not, we
will be back on Dr. Drew On Call tomorrow saying, "A man, he stabbed her. He said he was going to do it."
PINSKY: I know. And, now, we have learned -- what is the name of the kid that shot up the school? Adam Lanza. We are learning how bad that was and
how people did not respond. I mean we cannot let that happen anymore. We got to learn from these things. All right, everybody. Join us on our
Facebook page. We do an after show there. We will continue these conversations. You can, of course, DVR us then watch us any time.
"Growing America" is up next.
END
