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Choosing a New Defense Secretary; Protests Continue around Ferguson; Building Trust Between Police and Communities; Discussing ISIS Threat on Capitol Hill; Janice Dickinson Accusing Bill Cosby

Aired December 02, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with breaking news as a long time Defense Department official could be close to taking the top job at the Pentagon. Sources tell us Ashton Carter, a former Deputy Secretary of Defense, appears to be the top choice to replace outgoing Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

Joining me now, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr and senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Barbara, tell us more about the president's choice.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, barring the unforeseen, barring any last-minute surprises, several officials are now indicating Ash Carter will be the president's choice to replace Chuck Hagel, who was pushed out as Defense Secretary last week, of course.

Ash, a long time Pentagon veteran. He served as Hagel's deputy until last year. Before that, he was the top acquisition official, essentially the top weapons buyer. He knows the ins and outs of how billions of dollars of taxpayer money is spent on weapons and defense programs. He knows what can be cut and what still might be considered essential.

If there's perhaps one shortcoming in his resume, it would be he doesn't have a lot of experience on the geopolitical world global stage, but certainly some. So what are his advantages? He wants the job, there's a lot of people that have bowed out and he can get confirmed by all accounts by the Senate Arms Services Committee, by Senator John McCain, a Republican, who wants to see much more action by the U.S. in Iraq and Syria. The question for Ash Carter, perhaps, will be can he stand up to the White House? Can he offer new ideas? New options, and get the White House to listen to him? Carol?

COSTELLO: Can he, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that will be the big question for Ash Carter, but I'm not sure that the White House is looking for somebody who can stand up to the White House. They may be looking for somebody who is a bit more pliable when it comes to delivering this administration's message. When it comes to adapting to this administration's policy. You'll recall just before Chuck Hagel was ousted over at the Pentagon he had written a pretty scathing memo over to National Security Advisor Susan Rice calling into questions the president's policy on dealing with ISIS and dealing with Syria. So they may not be looking for somebody who is going to be standing up to them every day of the week. But we should point out that just until recently Jeh Johnson, the Homeland Security Secretary, was in the running for this position.

We're now told by an administration official that he is no longer in contention for the job of Defense Secretary and Ash Carter is sort of the last man standing because Jeh Johnson took himself out of the running or is no longer in the running. He is testifying up on Capitol Hill right now at a Homeland Security Committee hearing on the president's immigration plan and as Barbara knows, if Jeh Johnson had moved over to the Pentagon Jeh Johnson's successor would have to be named. And that would have created more problems for this White House, because Jeh Johnson, if he were to be in a Defense Secretary confirmation hearing, would probably be asked about the president's immigration plan which is deeply unpopular with a lot of Republicans and then the new Homeland Security secretary if Jeh Johnson were replaced would have to answer questions about the president's immigration plan.

So in many ways Ash Carter became the last man standing because this was becoming a very complicated process in terms of picking somebody. A lot of other people that were thought to be front-runners for this job, Carol, had dropped out of the running. People like Michelle Flournoy, people like Senator Jack Reed, they were very high on this White House list and they took themselves out of the running. Carol?

COSTELLO: And said "No, thank you." Jim Acosta, Barbara Starr, thanks to both of you.

Let's move on now to other news. Apparently, it is very, very hard to say the word "sorry." The St. Louis Rams and the County police department are in a war of words over whether or not the team actually apologized for Sunday's protest where five players put their hands up as they entered the field. In the meantime, President Obama is laying out his plan how to build trust between African-Americans and police across the country. That plan includes overseeing the use of military equipment by local police, creating a taskforce to establish accountability and trust and funding for police body cameras. Ed Lavandera live for us in Ferguson this morning to tell us more. Good morning, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, you know, this face off between the St. Louis Rams football team and various police associations here in the St. Louis area kind of overshadowing what is some good news. It was yet another quiet night here in the city of Ferguson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: While the grand jury proceeding in St. Louis County has concluded, I can report this evening that the Justice Department's investigation into the shooting death of Michael Brown as well as our investigation into allegations of unconstitutional policing patterns or practices by the Ferguson police department remain ongoing and remain active.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

LAVANDERA: Inside the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Attorney General Eric Holder addressed the country. At times, his words were stifled by the chants of protesters.

The Attorney General paused to ensure their voices could be heard.

HOLDER: What we saw there was a genuine expression of concern and involvement.

(APPLAUSE)

HOLDER: Let me be clear, I ain't mad at you, all right?

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

LAVANDERA: Late Monday night, the St. Louis Rams finally addressed the controversy surrounding this public show of solidarity by five of its players, their hands up don't shoot message. A local police association said it implied that Michael Brown was shot while attempting to surrender. The Rams chief operating officer called the angered officers and release a statement saying in part we expressed our respect for their concerns surrounding yesterday's game. The Rams will continue to build on what have always been strong and valued relationships with local law enforcement and a greater St. Louis community, as we come together to help heal our region."

But the Rams' spokesman followed up with CNN making clear they did not apologize. The NFL is also not apologizing. Its spokesman says "We respect and understand the concerns of all individuals who have expressed views on this tragic situation." Back in Missouri at the first community meeting of the Ferguson commission, more frustration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to understand it - We understand it - we're getting killed out here.

LAVANDERA: For his part, President Obama promised to follow through.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And part of the reason this time will be different is because the president of the United States is deeply invested in making sure that this time it's different.

CROWD: Hands up, don't shoot.

LAVANDERA: Nationwide, demonstrators simply walked out on Monday.

CROWD: To walk out of school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To walk out of work.

LAVANDERA: Encouraged by the movement to flood the streets in protest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And, Carol, I want to pass along some information that is just coming into us. Now, we've learned that the Ferguson police department is launching a formal investigation now into, if you remember back last Monday night, Michael Brown's stepfather Louis Head in that video that came out, many people had basically accused him of inciting the riot that launched afterwards that night that we've elevened from the Ferguson police department that they are investigating that matter as a possible incitement of riot with the police department tells us that they have already interviewed several people that were with Louis Head that night, but they have not spoken with him yet. No charges have been filed yet, not clear if they will be filed but at this point, we've learned that they are at least formally investigating that situation and looking into whether or not he incited a riot last Monday night here in that video that you're seeing now. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right. When he said burn this bitch down. And that's - now that's what he says. So, he could be charged with the crime. Of course, he'll keep us posted. Ed Lavandera reporting live from Ferguson this morning.

I want to take you out to Pontiac, Michigan now. The sometimes tense relationship between police and the communities they serve was on full display on Thanksgiving Day. A local store owner called 911 to report a man walking outside of the store who made him nervous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLER: There's a light-skinned guy that passes by five six times back and forth looking at us, looking inside. He looks suspicious.

DISPATCH: Are you or anyone else in immediate danger?

CALLER: No. I mean, I'm assuming yes because he keeps moving back and forth looking at us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The store owner was also concerned because the man had his hands in his pocket. Now, the store owner had been robbed multiple times, that's why he called 911. But here's what happened when that young man walking in front of that man's store with his hands in his pocket was stopped by police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, doing what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walking by --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Radio (INAUDIBLE) that subject.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walking by and doing what? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were making people nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By walking by?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, they said you had your hands in the pockets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Walking by having your hands in your pockets makes people nervous to call the police when it's snowing outside?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, are you OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fine, how about you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Al right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you up to today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walking with my hands in my pockets. Walking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that (INAUDIBLE) right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hail, yeah, because of the whole police situation going across the country, this is outrageous. That you would let somebody tell you oh, there's somebody walking in our street with their hands in their pockets. There's 10,000 people in Pontiac right now with their hands in their pockets. So how many ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're right, but we do have a lot of robberies. So, I'm just checking on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say you're fine, you're good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's fine. I just - I just make sure I get this on camera, make sure ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, for sure. For my safety and yours. I'm being very respectable, you're being very respectable, just the whole situation -- I'm really mad at the situation of whoever called. That's crazy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have got to check it out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were feeling nervous, if we call us, we'd check on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For sure, but I would just never call. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Do we have a picture of the young man? The young man was a light skinned African-American man. He was a young man, probably around 30, 35. You can sort of feel for everybody involved in that story. I want to introduce you now to Tom Manger, he's the chief of police for Montgomery County, Maryland. Welcome, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: And I would guess this is the sort of thing that was talked about yesterday in that big meeting with President Obama.

TOM MANGER, CHIEF, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: Yes, I mean these kind of interactions happen every single day. We get calls from folks who see -- we encourage people if you see something suspicious to call 911. And so we get these calls hundreds of times every day and we have these kinds of interactions. Folks -- it's not a pleasant thing being stopped by police, but I think it's important for the public to understand that oftentimes we're responding to someone's complaint and -- but it's incumbent on the officers to be respectful and not escalate the situation in terms of their interaction with somebody. Just having a casual conversation. Got a call, what are you doing, you know, everything OK? I think the officer handled that appropriately.

COSTELLO: Yeah, and even the young man said that the officer was respectful toward him. He was more upset at the store owner who called 911 simply because he was walking outside with his hands in his pockets. So, the larger issue, since you say this takes place all over the country, what's the answer to easing tensions between police and communities?

MANGER: You know, first of all, it's conversation. And if anything positive has come out of Ferguson it is that every police chief in this country has had I guess a -- some encouragement and it's been a catalyst for more conversations in the community. I know in my community we've been doing outreach relentlessly for many, many years to all segments of the community. We have a very diverse community. But since August there have been people who have called us and said hey, "Come out to our church, come out to our meeting, come out to our event." And so, it's been great. We've actually had folks - instead of - always initiating the outreach we've had folks inviting us. And to have these conversations about the relationship between the police and the minority community, about to have the conversations about the militarization of police, to have the conversations about use of force, those are conversations that we need to have with the community every day.

COSTELLO: Well, it's obvious since the community reached out to your police department that the community trusts the police in Montgomery County. So, what's your secret?

MANGER: Well, it's not a secret. It's just a relentless effort. Let me be clear, I mean I think we have great community support, we do a lot of surveys and we do have excellent community support, but believe me, not everyone trusts the police in Montgomery County. Not everyone trusts the police anywhere. And so, it's those communities, for us it's more the new immigrant communities, we have a large number of new immigrants that lived in our jurisdiction. Our outreach to them has to be just everyday trying to get the message across about what our policies are toward immigration and just the fact that we have a lot of unreported crime in many of those communities. And so, just doing the outreach to make sure that people know that we are their police, too.

COSTELLO: It's also in who you hire, isn't it?

MANGER: You know, exactly. One of the biggest responsibilities that any police chief has is to make sure we're hiring the right people and, you know, there's some thought that a certain type of person, you know, is -- wants to become a police officer. The fact is that we are as diverse in terms of personality, in terms of every aspect as the community is. And you want to hire people that have compassion, you want to hire people that display empathy, that have good interpersonal skills. We can train people to do police work and to deescalate situations. We can train people in terms of use of force in the law and how to interact with people, but what you can't train people is how to be compassionate or train them how to be, you know, empathetic. Those are things that I think you want to hire people that have those qualities already.

COSTELLO: Right. And you know, just going forward, we, you know, we often hear about how you have to obey police officers, do exactly what they say no matter how tough they are, but police work is more than that, because you sometimes accomplish more through compassion than you do through bravado.

MANGER: Absolutely. I mean when you get to a point where the only way you're getting compliance and getting cooperation from the community is to force it under threat of law, I think you're really coming from a position that is not optimum. The fact is that you can walk into a situation, diffuse it by demonstrating respect to the people that you're dealing with, explaining why you're there, explaining what you're trying to accomplish. Those often times when you have that kind of approach you get so much more cooperation. You get -- and that's the way you build trust with each one of our interactions.

But I would, you know, let me be clear as well. That there are many times when officers are thrust into situations where it's already at a point where there's a lot of danger involved, where they're - you know, that the officers need to take control of the situation. So it's not so easy -- it's easy when you walk into a situation where you can sort of control how things - how things go in terms of a conversation and how it begins. When you get there and you've already got, you know, some sort of dangerous situation in progress, it's not quite as easy to deescalate it sometimes. We train our officers to do that. But, you know, it does -- we have to react to what's going on in front of us as well.

COSTELLO: Police Chief Tom Manger of Montgomery County, Maryland. Thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

MANGER: Sure.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, former supermodel Janice Dickinson breaks down as she tells CNN in graphic detail what she says Bill Cosby did to her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE DICKINSON: It's affecting me in my house ...

(SOBBING)

DICKINSON: It's affecting me -- it's really affected these women. But I'm strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Cosby's attorney is firing back calling Dickinson a liar. More next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: At least 17 women have now come forward accusing comedian Bill Cosby of raping them. Former supermodel Janice Dickinson is among the accusers. She says Cosby drugged her and raped her after they had dinner together in Lake Tahoe in 1982. Dickinson sat down with CNN's Fredericka Whitfield and described in graphic detail what she says Cosby did to her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What has held you back all these years from telling this story in detail until now?

JANICE DICKINSON, FORMER SUPERMODEL, COSBY ACCUSER: I remember being humiliated, disgusted. I had always - I had revulsion towards Cosby and Cosby was a very powerful man and probably still is, you know? I trusted this man and I stuffed it. I compartmentalized it because I was embarrassed.

WHITFIELD: And at what point did you find yourself alone with Mr. Cosby, you trusted him but then things went in a different direction, in your view?

DICKINSON: Mr. Gardner, Stu Gardner left the dinner table. I was alone with him and I had menstrual cramps. I had - menstrual, you know, stomach cramps. He said "oh, I've got something for that." And he gave me a pill. And ...

WHITFIELD: Did you ask what it was?

DICKINSON: I don't remember that. I don't remember. But if he's giving me a pill, I trust the guy. I trusted Bill Cosby.

WHITFIELD: Why do you feel like you trusted him? DICKINSON: Because of his demeanor and the promise of a career and, you know, I trusted him and I was - I wanted a television career. I always had -- I had had a successful career for commercials. I wanted to take it to the next level.

WHITFIELD: To prove that - How do you prove that when it's your word against his?

DICKINSON: I should have gone to the police, but once again I was too embarrassed and I was too disgusted and I was afraid for my career so I moved out. Can I prove it? I can't produce a stain on my pajamas and I can't produce the semen that was actually there or I didn't go in for an examination of my womanhood down there. I didn't do rape counseling or any of that. Had I known, I would have. But the repercussions from all of this -- look at how it's blown up now on me. I'm being slandered and called -- that I lie. Bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED) attorneys, I am not lying. You weren't there. I can prove it with Polaroids. Put a lie detector test on me and put a lie detector test on the attorneys and put a lie detector test on Mr. Bill Monster Cosby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wow. Fredericka joins us now from CNN's headquarters in Atlanta. Dickinson didn't hold back.

WHITFIELD: No, she didn't hold back and she says, you know, for 30 years she did. At first she said she was afraid, she was afraid for her career, she remained silent. But then she said in recent weeks she felt empowered by the women who have come forward. She says quite the opposite has happened to her versus what Barbara Bowman talked about this morning. Barbara Bowman said she has received lots of accolades and support. Her voicemail is full and Janice Dickinson says the opposite. Now there is silence, there are scowls when she goes out in public. She says it used to be she would go out and public and people would say "Hey, girl. You know, you go, girl." But quite the opposite.

But she says, you know, she is fearful no more. She's been empowered by the other women and she says she is there for them just as she knows the other women who alleged sexual abuse by Bill Cosby are there for her. And she also believes that you know what, while the statute of limitations may have run out, she cannot press criminal charges against Bill Cosby, she and her attorneys are exploring whether slander or libel are possibilities because Bill Cosby's attorney Martin Singer has called her a liar.

COSTELLO: So, we have to talk about this, though. Dickinson and her ghostwriter and her book "No Lifeguard on Duty" did not include allegations about that alleged rape. You talked to the ghostwriter, what did he say?

WHITFIELD: I did. I talked with the ghostwriter, Pablo Fenjves and he says that yes, indeed, Janice did tell him the story back in 2001 when he was working with her on the book, which was eventually released in 2002, but he also discouraged her from even thinking that that story would make the book and this is why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Did you ever write a draft based on her story and send that draft to Harper Collins?

PABLO FENJVES, GHOSTWRITER FOR JANICE DICKINSON: No. I did not.

WHITFIELD: Did she know that you hadn't done that?

FENJVES: Well, I think based on our conversation I said to her this is basically going to be impossible to get past the lawyers at Harper Collins. But she also read the draft that I did turn in and she saw that the Bill Cosby material was not part of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So you see, Carol there, the conversation took place according to Pablo and Janice, they do corroborate that, the discussion did take place, but he never wrote the draft to send to Harper Collins. And so Harper Collins, he says, never learned of it by way of a draft. He may have conveyed it to the publisher, he says, but his memory is a little scattered on that in terms of verbally but he knows indeed he never sent the draft so the draft was never denied or lawyered by Harper Collins.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Fredricka Whitfield, many thanks.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, will Jeb Bush run for the White House? He says he's thinking about it. We'll check a new CNN poll to see how his numbers stack up against all the others who want to be president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The threat from foreign fighters, including ISIS, now the focus on Capitol Hill. The House Foreign Affairs joint subcommittee is now holding a hearing. Chilling words from the chairman, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. Foreign fighters are joining ISIS by the tens of thousands and are an unprecedented threat to national security. That's the testimony right now. Of course, we'll continue to monitor this and keep you posted.

OK, onto 2016 and the race for president. Yes, we have to talk about it. Will Jeb Bush run? He says he's thinking about a run for the White House, even plans to decide soon. And while he mauls over the move, he's considering strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R) FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: I don't know if I'd be a good candidate or a bad one. I know -- I kind of know how a Republican can win, whether it's me or somebody else. And it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive, - much more willing to be practical now in Washington world, lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles. It's not an easy task to be honest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: An honest man, I like that. Jeb Bush is not the only big name that GOP voters would like to see on a presidential ballot. CNN's John King is here with a cast of thousands. Good morning.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Almost, Carol. Look, you'd have to consider Jeb Bush if he runs and when you talk to Republicans, he's getting more serious about the phone calls to lay the ground work. But he's still in if. If he runs he would be formidable, but look at these numbers. There's no front-runner. You can't give anybody the front-runner except maybe Mitt Romney. Our brand new poll, if Mitt Romney were to run again, and he says, Carol, no, no, no. He would be a 20 percent. Dr. Ben Carson, a ten percent.