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No Clear GOP Frontrunner for 2016; Ray Rice Wants a Second Chance in NFL; Pope, Religious Leaders Sign Anti-Slavery Pact; Boehner Holds Weekly Press Conference; Police Consider Charging Michael Brown's Stepfather

Aired December 02, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: An honest man, I like that. Jeb Bush is not the only big name that GOP voters would like to see on a presidential ballot. CNN's John King is here with a cast of thousands. Good morning.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Almost, Carol. Look, you'd have to consider Jeb Bush if he runs and when you talk to Republicans he's getting more serious about the phone calls to lay the ground work but it's still an "if". If he runs he would be formidable but look at these numbers. There's no front-runner. You can't give anybody the front-runner status except maybe Mitt Romney.

Our brand new poll, if Mitt Romney were to run again and he says Carol, "no, no, no", he would be at 20 percent. Dr. Ben Carson at 10 percent -- we'll talk more about that in a minute. Then you see Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee -- all known and familiar names there. And then you have the others -- the governors and the senators in the 6s, 5s, 4s, 2s.

Usually we know who's next in the Republican Party. Well, we don't this time and Romney says he won't run. If Romney doesn't run, then Jeb Bush comes on top at 14 percent, Dr. Carson at 11 percent, Mike Huckabee at 10 percent and again Christie and Paul Ryan, all familiar names.

The thing that's most interesting to me about this is, number one, Bush is formidable but not a front-runner and number two the Ben Carson factor. He had a platform as a commentator on Fox News. If you travel the country, his books are very popular in evangelical bookstores. I think after the midterm elections what we're seeing is he's not a politician and even Republicans are disgusted with Washington so they're looking at him as potentially an outsider who could run. But if you look at this, I've been doing this for 30 years, never have you seen a Republican field so wide open.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Ok. So what about the Democratic side?

KING: That's a very different calculation -- right. No front-runner on the Republican side? Look at these numbers on the Democratic side. Hillary Clinton 65 percent.

COSTELLO: Wow. KING: You know, that's -- Jeb Bush would look at those and be envious

-- right. So would Mitt Romney. Elizabeth Warren at 10 percent; if Clinton doesn't run that gets interesting; Joe Biden at 9 percent; Bernie Sanders, the senator from Vermont, at 5 percent; Governor Cuomo of New York at 1 percent.

If Clinton doesn't run, Carol, and we all expect she will run and we expect we'll hear from her in a month or two, the loyalty to Joe Biden, loyalty to Joe Biden kicks in there. But again if you're Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton doesn't run, you're looking at that number and you're smiling because you think the liberal base wants you to run.

But again, remember, we should be clear, she has been crystal clear she is not running. But again, that is an answer based on Hillary Clinton running. So we wait the big decisions. These polls in some ways are meaningless -- Carol. The election is so far away. But as the candidates have to make these decisions, you have to build the staff, you have to raise a boat load of money. Some candidates have to make decisions quicker than others.

When they see these polling numbers, that's what starts the conversations and the competition and the domino effect. Once we hear from Jeb Bush, then we'll hear from Chris Christie, then we'll hear from Rick Perry and so on and so forth. Already on the Republican side today, Rob Portman, the Ohio senator saying he's not going to run in 2016, instead he'll run for reelection.

So some voters might think it's silly to talk about this right now but if you want to run because it's so hard and because takes so much, the candidates actually have to be thinking about this right now.

COSTELLO: All right, John King, thanks so much. I want to take our viewers to Capitol Hill right now because John Boehner, the Republican House Speaker, is holding his weekly meeting and we expect him to talk about funding the government and a government shutdown. Let's listen.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: -- still struggling economy and this week we'll pass important legislation to help families with special needs and to prevent tax hikes on millions of families and small businesses. The President, on the other hand, has ignored the will of the American people and he's refused to listen. He himself or his decision to take unilateral action on immigration, action he himself said exceeded his authority makes it harder for the American people and their elected representatives to trust his word on any issue. I said before Thanksgiving that Republicans would fight his unilateral actions. We're looking at a variety of options both for right now and when Republicans control both Houses of the Congress next year.

We'll continue to discuss with our members a number of options in terms of how we will deal with this in consultation, again, with the members. But no decisions have been made at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome back, I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. I'm going to start with something that I never thought I'd do or that I'd never done before. I agree with Chuck Schumer. And I want to quote Senator Schumer when he talked about Obamacare he quoted "It wasn't the change we were hired to make."

COSTELLO: All right, we're going to jump out of this and talk more about what the House Speaker was intimating in his remarks. Dana Bash is covering this. I'm going to take a break and Dana will join us on the other side. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Domestic violence in sports will take center stage on Capitol Hill later today as yet another panel holds a hearing, this time in the senate. This morning, the man whose name and face many have come to associate with sports and domestic violence opened up about the now infamous elevator video that showed him knocking out the woman he later married.

Now Ray Rice is asking for a second chance to play in the NFL. He's been cleared to return but no team has picked him up. Not yet. Here's what he told the "Today" show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, MSNBC HOST: What do you think it would take for another owner and another group of fans to put the images of that video behind and say "we'll take a chance on Ray Rice"?

RAY RICE, NFL PLAYER: One thing I think that they would have to be willing to, you know, look deeper into who I am and realize that me and my wife had one bad night and I took full responsibility for it. And one thing about my punishment and everything going along with anything that happened is that I've accepted it, I went fully forward with it, I never complained or did anything like that. I took full responsibility for everything I did and the only thing I can hope for and wish for is a second chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's talk about that. Joining me now CEO of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support in Dallas, Jan Langbein; and Marvet Britto, a PR and brand strategist and the president and CEO of the Britto Agency. Welcome to both of you.

MARVET BRITTO, BRITTO AGENCY: Thank you, Carol.

JAN LANGBEIN, GENESIS WOMEN'S SHELTER: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Marvet and I were talking in the break, Jan and Marvet was wonder and I think thought it was a good question. If indeed if this was a one-time event, does that constitute domestic violence?

LANGBEIN: It does. The assault, there's no question that the assault happened. But most violent relationships are not isolated incidents. We find there is a cycle of behavior where there is tension that builds, an assault that happens but a honeymoon period that follows, a period of promises and hope that there will be change. What that means, however, is that it will cycle back through the tension building, the assault, the honeymoon again and again and again. Where there is no accountability, we see where there has been abuse, it will happen again. It will increase in frequency and often in severity.

COSTELLO: Some might say that Ray Rice, you know, he's paid a price. Some might think it wasn't a high enough price but he's probably not going to play football this year, right? Maybe he won't next year. But he wants to be reinstated. In your line of work because you've met many domestic abusers, do most of them return to their careers?

LANGBEIN: Absolutely. Very few abusive people lose their jobs. What we find is that there are some companies, there are some corporations like Mary Kaye, Inc. or Verizon that have a corporate zero tolerance policy but most businesses, most employers do not hold accountable perpetrators of violence.

What we do find, however, is that the majority of those who lose their jobs are the victims themselves because of absenteeism or lost productivity or just the dangerous environment that's created around the abuse by the abuser that it's actually the victims that lose their jobs permanently.

COSTELLO: But look, Jan, in your mind, should Ray Rice get his football career back?

LANGBEIN: You know I want to hope that this won't happen again in that family. I want to hope that this is not just a honeymoon period for them. We see, however, that many times the first reported incident of violence, the first public incident, is not the first incident. My hope for that family is that there is healing but only they can tell.

COSTELLO: Just a last question because Marvet and I were also discussing this. We had a long conversation in, like, 60 seconds. In Janay Rice's own words, what started this terrible fight that night was they were arguing over something stupid, both of them were drunk and Ray Rice spit on her and then she slapped him.

Now, I've never been spit on by anyone so it's hard to believe that this is a one time event. Just because of that in my mind.

LANGBEIN: Well, again, I can't speak to this couple but I have to say that normal people don't spit on other people. And when you -- if he had been a victim of the abuse, he could walk away. He could walk away. That elevator punch never had to happen and that's what the message is, is the accountability for perpetrators of domestic violence. We've started some great conversations in this country because of this particular case. But we're not through.

COSTELLO: Ok, on to you, Marvet. You're a PR and brand strategist and Ray Rice appears -- it appears that he's very sorry and wants to start his life anew and set a new example for people. And you see the interview took place in the kitchen and Janay's parents, you know, they were beside the couple. So in your mind as people watch him on the "Today" show, are they receptive to what he's saying?

BRITTO: I believe that they are. I believe that he struck a common chord in that interview. It was sincere. It was heartfelt. And I think that we have to remember that the road to redemption for many people is rooted in the fact that we are all one bad decision away from a life-changing mistake.

I think that that common ground is what allows the public to forgive. And I do believe that we saw a very humble, a very sincere Ray Rice. We also saw her family stand with Ray Rice. I think that that was important for us to see. I do believe that fans will look past this infraction. They won't forget it but I do believe he has a right to earn a living and I do believe that this is a teachable moment. I do think that his wife will emerge.

And what I liked most about the interview, what I respected about them is that they didn't immediately stand to become the poster child for domestic violence. They said we want to take time, we want to heal, we want our wellness to be first and then we can emerge and be advocates and champions for this serious issue.

COSTELLO: In other words, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to just jump in and say, you know, "I'm going to be supportive of domestic violence shelters or work with battered women" or anything like that.

BRITTO: It would seem insincere. His interview was not scripted, it was genuine. It was a genuine apology. He also spoke to being prepped for his Baltimore Ravens press conference which we all know working in the field that that happens.

The interview with Matt Lauer was not prepped, it was a sincere interview. And I do think that he should be given an opportunity to come back. What he did was not right and what he did was disrespectful and what he did should never happen to any woman or any human being but I do believe that we all do make mistake and we need to remember that we are imperfect people.

So I think if we all really realize that basis then we can allow this young man the road to redemption like we would all hope we would be granted.

COSTELLO: Like I said I'm so torn about this. Honestly I don't know what to think.

BRITTO: It's difficult.

COSTELLO: It is difficult. Thanks to you both for your insight. It was fabulous to hear from both of you. Jan Langbein, Marvet Britto.

Multi-faith leaders united in the fight against modern slavery -- Anglican, Orthodox, Jewish, Muslim, Islamic, Buddhist, and Hindu leaders joining Pope Francis at the Vatican today. They signed an agreement aiming to eliminate modern slavery and human trafficking by the year 2020.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour was able to ask the pope a question on why this issue so important to him. Christiane joins us now from Rome to tell us more. Hi, Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Carol, I couldn't help but listen to your previous conversation? Do you know what we heard here from anti-slavery activists? That one of the leading causes for people to be so battered is to be susceptible to traffic and slavery is domestic abuse and domestic violence. I find that extraordinary in light of the conversation you've just had. One of the most alarmingly fast rising ways of sexual -- of slavery is sexual trafficking.

The pope here hosted an unprecedented number of major world religious leaders to make an unprecedented signing to try to end this scourge. And I moderated the panel and I asked him what it was that motivated this passion on his part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Holy Father, you played a key role in establishing the global freedom network. You were the first person to call modern slavery and human trafficking a crime against humanity. As you appeal for this scourge to be eradicated once and for all, tell us what exactly motivated your passion about this particular scourge?

POPE FRANCIS, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): On behalf of all of us and our beliefs and (inaudible), we declare that human slavery in terms of prostitution, organ exploitation and also human trafficking is a crime against humanity. The victims come from all walks of life but most times they are the poorest and the most vulnerable of our brothers and sisters.

This situation is unfortunately becoming worse and worse everyday. I call upon all people in faith and their leaders and the governments and the companies. I call all men and women of good will to provide their strong support and join this movement against modern slavery in all its forms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, according to the organization that put this on, there are something like 36 million slaves around the world. And not just in the ordinary usual suspect corners of the world but also in the United States, in England, here in Italy and around Europe. There are tens of thousands of them. Most are in China and in India, but it is something now that world leaders say they really do have to tackle. And to wit there are a lot of conferences sort of spreading from the pope's desire to really make this summit ripple and have some effect -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Christiane Amanpour reporting live from Rome this morning. Thanks so much -- Christiane.

I want to take you back to Capitol Hill now because, oh, just about 10 or 15 minutes ago House Speaker John Boehner held his weekly press conference. He talked about immigration and he talked about, you know, funding for the government for another year and he talked about how the President should not have instituted that executive order on immigration.

Dana bash was covering that presser. She joins us now with more. Hi, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. And all of those things that you just mentioned, they don't sound like they should interact with one another and that they should depend on the other but they actually do and here's why.

The government runs out of money in just nine days on December 11, unless Congress passes legislation to keep the government running. And there has been a lot of pressure from some of the more conservative groups, outside groups, really, on Republicans here in Congress to use their power of the purse to try to choke funding for the departments and the government that will be responsible for implementing the President's immigration executive order.

However, what you heard the House Speaker say in a way that wasn't necessarily intended to give us all a sound bite but it was very clear from the reporting about what happened in a meeting that he just had this morning is that he made clear to his rank-and-file Republicans that they are not going to go along with that strategy because he didn't use these words, I'm told, but they all know, it could lead to another government shutdown. That really appears to be off the table even from some of the most conservative members of the House Republican caucus, Carol, who we talked to in these hallways.

Just real briefly, what their plan seems to be is to fund the entire government for a year except for the Department of Homeland Security and just have kind of a stopgap for a few months on that to give them time to figure out if they can do anything with regard to funding to beat back the President's immigration executive order.

But the bottom line is that most Republicans say it is going to be very, very tough. The President has them in a box. Very tough to do anything with the power of the purse to stop the President from giving what amounts to legal status for about five million people in this country.

COSTELLO: All right, Dana Bash reporting live from Capitol Hill. Thanks so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. I imparted a bit of breaking news a while back about Michael Brown's stepfather. Police in Ferguson are investigating his stepfather for inciting a riot and this is where those possible charges would arise from. This is the night the grand jury decision was read to the public. The decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown's stepfather said this unfortunate thing.

As you can see, he said, "Burn this bitch down." That's what he said during the tension-filled gathering in the city of Ferguson after this grand jury decision was read publicly.

I want to bring in our legal analyst Paul Callan now. So police are investigating this. If the stepfather is charged with inciting a riot, what could the penalty be?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): Well, you know, it would depend upon how it was charged -- Carol. And this is a very unusual charge, I have to tell you, in modern times. While the Supreme Court has upheld incitement to riot charges, there are sort of conflict issues with the first amendment.

And you know, in previous years -- I mean 20, 30, 40 years ago you would see charges like this. In recent times, modern times, it's a very, very rarely used charge. Now depending upon how it's charged it could either be a misdemeanor, or up to a year if prison. There are certain theories here that could turn it also into a felony which could be more than a year in prison.

But I can't -- I'm not finding under Missouri law the use of that this statute in a very, very long time so it would really surprise me if you saw criminal charges brought. I think ironically --

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: -- ultimately this decision would have to be made by the prosecutor, McCulloch, who was the subject of great controversy in the original case and he would have to make a decision about whether to charge or present it to a grand jury and that, of course, was a very controversial decision.

So I suspect, though, in the end that nothing will come of it. It seems to me a lot of people would think maybe it's overreaching under the circumstances.

COSTELLO: Why go there, Paul? Paul -- if I could interrupt you for just a second. If you were representing Mr. Head, how would you represent him? Was what he said enough to incite a riot?

CALLAN: Well, having watched the film, it's -- it's very provocatively said and, you know, it's very hard to prove this charge because the law says that the words -- you have to intend through the use of the words to incite a riot or criminal behavior of some kind. And secondly that usually you have to see that it actually did incite the crowd to do something.

Now, of course, after he made these comments there were riots and there seemed to have been immediate activity by the crowd in question. So if you're going to try to put together a fact pattern here that makes that a criminal case, this comes pretty close to making out the criminal case.

Now, on the other hand, because he's the stepfather of Michael Brown, I think if I were defending him what I would say is he had no intent to trigger this activity in the crowd. He was just responding emotionally to this -- what he considered to be horrible news that the grand jury had decided not to indict. And he truly wasn't trying to incite a riot, he was just being overemotional.

And I suspect that that defense might resonate and might be a reasonably good defense. Of course, there might be those who say, well, you know, there's probable cause, you have to charge it and let it be decided at trial later on. And I think cooler heads would prevail in this situation and probably say this is a charge that shouldn't be blocked given the overall facts and circumstances and that's what good prosecutorial discretion is all about.

COSTELLO: Ok. Paul Callan, Thank you very much.

I want to bring in Nakisha Lewis, she's with Girls for Gender Equity, a philanthropic strategist who organized "Hands up" at Walk-out Brooklyn. I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't want to be put on the spot. But just your reaction to this.

NAKISHA LEWIS, GIRLS FOR GENDER EQUITY: Well, I think that there's this outrage across the country, right? And so from New York City to Ferguson young people especially are really feeling this. We're really in the midst of the moment and I think that this country has reached a tipping point in which young people feel that they aren't safe walking down the street, they aren't safe in the housing projects.

We have a case of a young man who was just killed in the New York City housing projects. So that's just the moment that we're in. We find ourselves the in a moment of rage, in a moment of fear and young people are really scared.

We at Girls for Gender Equity an organization that works with young people, we're a community of adult allies, mentors, healers, social workers and lovers and so we feel it deeply with them.

COSTELLO: And you've described how deeply people are feeling this tension. You say we're at a tipping point. So that Ferguson police are going to go after Michael Brown's stepfather for inciting a riot the night after -- the very night the grand jury decision was read. In your mind should they be doing that?

LEWIS: I have absolutely no legal background, like I said, I'm a youth advocate, I'm a philanthropic strategist so I definitely want to play my role in recognizing that my work in this moment is not only to support the young people and to stand with them as they seek systemic and lasting change, recognizing that all black lives are at stake here not just the black lives of young men but also young women.

COSTELLO: Is this a tipping point or will this sort of go away after a few weeks?

LEWIS: Well, from meeting with young people just this Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, young people from across New York City met and I absolutely do not think this will go away. Like I said, they're in the moment where they need something to shift. They really need something to shift. And they are working tirelessly day in and day out for lasting systemic change.

COSTELLO: What would do that? What would push the shift? What do they need to hear and who do they need to hear it from?

LEWIS: I think it takes work from all of us. It takes the great work of young people meeting with the President yesterday. So President Obama sitting and meeting with them. It also takes on the local level city council acting so there's a role for legislation here where we can really shift some policies and procedures and stop doing business as usual, right?

So the demilitarization of communities, really supporting young people in terms of bringing about quality education reform. Making sure that there's jobs for folks in communities. But all of those pieces that I think black communities have called for, for years and years, we can actually see some systemic change and we actually have that support happen.

COSTELLO: Ok. Nakisha Lewis thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it. Sorry to put you on the spot.

Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA" starts now.