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Charles Barkley Speaking His Mind about Ferguson; The Dangers of Synthetic Designer Drugs
Aired December 02, 2014 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
NBA legend, Charles Barkley, speaking his mind about the grand jury's decision in Ferguson and the fallout. In an interview with the Philadelphia radio station, Barkley says too many people are not reading the facts, not reading the testimony presented to the grand jury. He explains why he is not willing to immediately judge the Ferguson police or discredit the grand jury decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER (voice-over): I'm not saying who is right or who is wrong. I'm just hearing the true story that came out of the grand jury investigation. I know I'm black. But I'm going to try to be honest and fair. We have to be really careful with the cops, man. If it wasn't for the cops, we'd be living in the Wild, Wild West in our neighborhoods. We can't pick out certain incidents that don't go our way and act like the cops are all bad. I hate when we do that. Because, think about it, do you know how bad some of these neighborhoods would be if it wasn't for the cops? Listen, first of all, it's always great to play Monday morning quarterback. If you got a gun and you fighting with somebody, you're not going to shoot them once, you're going to pull the trigger X amount of times. There's no excuse for those people to be out there burning down people's business, burning up police cars. That serves no purpose. That's like them -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- who are looting. Those aren't real black people. Those are scum bags. Real black people, they're not out there looting. I just watched a great story on CNN where a bunch of folks, really amazing folks, wouldn't let them burn down a store. It was a great story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Yeah. So let's talk about that. David Katz sitting to my right. He's a former DEA, firearms and Homeland Security expert.
It's just so important. I wanted to make sure we were talking also to law enforcement about all of this. We heard from the president. He was in multiple meetings yesterday. He laid out ideas, on how to improve law enforcement, not just in Ferguson, across the country. You said that President Obama has zero knowledge on how to make law enforcement better. DAVID KATZ, CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Well, presumably, he's never
going for a ride along. I don't know if he's watched the average, an episode in the evening of "Cops" ever, but his focus seems to be the police need to be more sensitive. They need to be more aware. They need to be more culturally diverse. There's not a single word about the community and the community's part in developing that sort of partnership between law enforcement and the community. Why are the police in those neighborhoods? Because it's a very high crime rate. They are there to protect and serve.
This is a case -- and I don't understand why President Obama and the attorney general are comparing Michael Brown with Emmet Till or someone worthy of our concern, and the murder of someone like Till deserves universal condemnation and disgust. This guy, Brown, he's a bad actor. This whole chain of events was set into motion by him. And the suggestion is he has to come out and say it, but the thought that the police were not racially sensitive. Does he think that Officer Wilson was out there looking for a black young man to shoot to death? It's offensive. He's the chief law enforcement of the country in addition to Attorney General Holder and he needs to have a dialogue with police officers as well as the other side of the equation.
BALDWIN: You're making a ton of points and I want to make sure we get through a bunch of them. I think the president did address the issue with the community policing, the night the grand jury decision became public. But I hear you in your points.
Let me bring one more voice into this conversation, another former law enforcement, a private investigator, former Missouri deputy, Rasheed Abdul-Salaam.
And, Rasheed, we have talked many times. You are very familiar with Missouri through the years. And, you know, I think, to David's point, and also to Charles Barkley's point, do you think there are some folks on one side of the debate who just choose not to see all of the facts that were presented, all of the multiple eyewitness accounts that say, you know, that Michael Brown definitely charged at this officer, that choosing to, you know, the truthiness. Which facts to believe, which facts to leave out?
RASHEED ABDUL-SALAAM, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR & FORMER MISSOURI DEPUTY: It's obvious there are people who are doing that. And we understand they're sensitive, they're emotional, and they're looking at it from emotionally tainted glasses. We have to look, those of us in law enforcement and the judicial system, we have to look at the facts based on the way they're presented. Be that as it may, getting back to cultural training, sensitivity training, these are two elements that should be a part of in-service training in most departments. The only thing that's required for police officers in their in-service training is to re-qualify on the pistol range. They need more training than just being able to shoot their firearm proficiently. They need sensitivity training, particularly when they are patrolling in areas that are ethnically, culturally, tainted towards or leaning towards one particular ethnic group. You can't ignore the sensitivities of those groups. I remember I was in New York years ago working on a case. And I was
in Brooklyn and I saw Brooklyn police officers with beards. So obviously, the community policing is a part of police work in more progressive departments.
BALDWIN: Where did that go? Where did that go? You yourself talked about protecting and serving.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Well, I mean, what it is, it starts from the leadership. If the leadership is not going to tow that line and to make officers or make their departments accountable and to keep them progressive, then why would we expect the rank-and-file officer to take it upon himself to do that? I was a minority in a majority white department. I was very culturally sensitive when I patrolled the white rural areas of the county in which I was designated or given an assignment to patrol. I couldn't ignore that.
BALDWIN: That's interesting.
Were you ever -- were you ever minority in a majority or --
KATZ: No, I have a different experience, a different background.
BALDWIN: Yeah.
KATZ: But to his point, there is not one iota of evidence to suggest that his lack of sensitivity contributed to this incident. Is it good for a police department to reflect to a large extent the composition of the community? Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I don't think that's as much about race, though. It's about living, knowing the people who you serve.
KATZ: Yeah, absolutely. But, if Darren Wilson had a darker complexion, he would've acted the same way. This is a situation -- it all comes down to what happened that moment he pressed the trigger.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Let me say this, Brooke, if I may.
BALDWIN: Yep.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Let me say this. And I can say this with complete confidence. If me, Rasheed, were the police officer in that incident where I saw Michael Brown and his companion walking down the middle of the street, I can say with a surety Michael Brown would still be alive today. Because Rasheed Abdul-Salaam, the police officer, would've approached it from a totally different perspective. OK? And I've worked with white police officers as my -- as my co-workers and comrades. I've seen how they approach black males and how sometimes they misinterpret what's going on in terms of -- or even their approach. So all I'm saying is sensitivity training may not necessary --
(CROSSTALK) KATZ: I couldn't agree more.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Sensitivity training may not necessarily --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: I could not agree more.
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: Sensitivity training may not necessarily changed the way that Darren Wilson dealt with that particular circumstance, but it would have given him a foundation to approach people of a different ethnic group from a different manner.
BALDWIN: He did -- let me interject before you respond, David. He did -- being the officer, he did have sort of this preconceived notion before he entered the neighborhood. He knew, you know, there were gangs. It was, he saw it -- he did see it one way.
KATZ: Yeah, well, how do we know that? How do we know --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: We know that because that was his testimony to the grand jury.
KATZ: He goes into the situation. He sees --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I don't know what was --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: Well, exactly right. He's got a five-year career that had been absolutely blemish-less to this point. No complaints, no suggestion he was racist or bigoted.
BALDWIN: Absolutely correct.
KATZ: He encounters these two gentlemen, he does what any cop would do. Hey, guys, sidewalk. They have a different response than most --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: They were mouthy. They were mouthy, according to the testimony.
KATZ: He passes them. Now he gets the call, from what we understand from the grand jury, there was just a stolen property case. Some people call it a strong-arm robbery. It was a larceny. He backups and encounters these individuals and, what happens? He gets assaulted. He gets beaten by a 6'4", 300-pound man. Please tell me how your training and sensitivity would impact that? If you're getting -- (CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: It would impact it from this perspective. Because when Officer Abdul-Salaam would've approached him, my contact them, and their response to me would have been different. This is what I'm saying.
KATZ: Assuming.
ABDUL-SALAAM: I'm assuming. I was an officer in the streets of Missouri. Were you? No you were not.
KATZ: Not in Missouri, but I've had several hundred arrests to my credit, my friend.
ABDUL-SALAAM: OK, so I know --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: We're talking about people of color, white people, Asian people --
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: You're asking a question, I'm trying to respond. Are you going to let me respond or are you going to let me answer your question?
KATZ: I didn't ask you a question.
ABDUL-SALAAM: No, I didn't ask you a question. I was answering your question.
KATZ: I challenge your statement.
ABDUL-SALAAM: You can challenge it day and night. But I can tell you this. I have been a minority officer in those circumstances with white officer co-workers. And I see how they respond to black men. Because, listen, the police departments and the members of the police department are reflective of the communities in which they come. We know there's a disconnect and there's a misunderstanding just amongst white and black citizens. Why would we feel it's any different for police officers?
KATZ: Tell me how racial sensitivity training would've changed your telling two guys, hey, guys, please move to the sidewalk. How is that an issue in that interaction?
ABDUL-SALAAM: It's not racial sensitivity for Rasheed because I wouldn't need it. But I have seen -- I have --
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: So you do?
KATZ: I have witnessed -- we're not talking about me. We're talking about Darren Wilson, the white officer. Don't get it twisted. We're not talking about Rasheed, the black officer. We're talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: You're accusing me of racism and I object to that.
ABDUL-SALAAM: You're a white man. I'm a black man. That's a race.
KATZ: I've noticed.
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: How are you trying to make this vanilla? Pardon the pun. You can't make this a vanilla situation. This is a white and black situation, sir. And to see otherwise --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: That's the way you see it.
ABDUL-SALAAM: And to see otherwise --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: You suggest it's just racist, just white and black --
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: You're twisting it to make it say racist.
KATZ: I'm just telling the facts.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Your facts are skewed because you keep inputting racism. I didn't say racism. I said race. There are a difference in the style, in the mannerisms between the way that young black men carry themselves and the way white young men carry themselves. They're totally different. As a matter of fact --
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: How would you have approached them?
ABDUL-SALAAM: -- what you find -- it's not a matter of how I would have approached them.
(CROSSTALK)
KATZ: How would you have done it?
BALDWIN: How would you have approached them?
ABDUL-SALAAM: It could have been simple as, I see these guys walking down the street. Rasheed would've rolled up and said, hey, guys, we have sidewalks on either side of the street. Will you guys, please, get on the sidewalk? What are you doing? That's how I would have approached it.
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: And the difference is, it was coming from a black officer that they rarely see, someone who they're connected with, so their response to me may have been differently. It may have been --
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL-SALAAM: May have. And so just that may have, that's reasonable doubt. We have to put that into the equation. You can't dismiss that.
BALDWIN: I think I'm listening to both of you and I have to say, having both of you on my show multiple times, I respect the hell out of both of you.
And the fact that I have these two men who see this so differently speaks volumes to the way the nation has seen the story, to the need for changes. It's just a matter of what needs to happen. Does the president have the answers? Who has the answers? But I'm so glad we're talking about it on TV.
Rasheed and David, I really thank you both for coming on and having the discussion. Let's have more.
ABDUL-SALAAM: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Thank you, both.
I really appreciate it.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Spice, Embalm, K-2, these are synthetic drugs sold as alternatives to illegal drugs like cocaine, acid, meth, and even heroin and marijuana. But they're not harmless, not by a long shot. If you're a parent of a teenager, tune in tonight to CNN because our senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, will have an entire documentary called "Deadly High."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Synthetic LSD has been blamed for at least -- parents across the country are now learning the painful truth about synthetic designer drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: Investigators say he overdosed on a synthetic marijuana --
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: -- otherwise known as K2.
GRIFFIN: With deaths and overdoses reported almost daily.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Well, one parent who knows, tragically firsthand, the dangers of these so-called synthetic designer drugs joins me now. You met him before on this show.
Lance Dyer lost his 14-year-old son, Dakota, to this deadly trend and now fights to get them off the streets.
Lance, I'll never forget our conversation. And through the entire commercial break, it's truly a pleasure to have you back.
LANCE DYER, LOST HIS SON TO SYNTHETIC DRUGS: Thank you. It's good to see you, again.
BALDWIN: So, take me back. Tell me about Dakota and your final night together.
DYER: Final night, we came home from school, went and practiced football. He went to our local Walgreen's and got a Yoo-Hoo and Kit- Kat. Came home, had dinner with his mother. We watched "Shark Tank" at midnight, eating Chips Ahoy cookies, discussing what we were going to do Saturday and Sunday. Went to bed, told us he loved us, we told him we loved him. Told him to sleep, and that me and his mom were going to run to the store and do things the next morning. Woke him up the next morning, he was fine. We had, you know, exchanged some conversation, told him not to sleep in too late that we were going to get his body armor for spring practice. Going to the movies that night. Some time in the time that we left and got back home, I guess, an hour, hour and a half, he decided to try this poison one time.
BALDWIN: Hmm.
DYER: He went through some type of psychotic episode, psychotic break, took a handgun, shot himself in the head. I found him 24 minutes later and lost him at 5:10 at Children's Hospital in Atlanta.
BALDWIN: I am so sorry. This poison, did you ever find out where he got it?
DYER: Yes, ma'am, we know exactly where it came from. He got it from a 13-time 31-year-old convicted felon in the state of Georgia who got tired of the drug task force kicking down his front door selling marijuana and meth. He went to selling and giving the stuff to the kids. He's currently sitting in the Carroll County Hail today.
BALDWIN: Good. You have done, Lance, so much more than grieve for your son. I know that you have gone to honor his memory, working to get drugs off the streets. Tell me about the drop box campaign.
DYER: To date, we're a little bit better than 5.2 million pills off the streets at zero cost to the taxpayer.
BALDWIN: Get out of here.
DYER: Yeah. We got 12 of them out there now. When me and you talked, I think we had seven or eight. Douglas County Sheriff Department takes hundreds of pounds of off the streets monthly. They've been a great success. We've had all kinds that we had -- we had one mother found her son growing marijuana plants out behind the barn. She snatched the plants up out of the ground, brought plants, dirt and all, and put it in the box.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Wow. Wow. Good for her.
DYER: They've been very successful.
BALDWIN: I'm so glad to hear. I know we talked. I think it was a few years ago. So you have come quite a ways, sir. What -- just finally to you, what is your message for parents watching?
DYER: Number one is watch the special tonight. We followed that story as it was happening, the foundation did. And other groups such as ours across the country. There's a lot of information that will be given.
But to parents, you have an opportunity to be educated. Something that parents didn't have two and three years ago. You got information at your fingertips, you use it. You do not want to be a parent picking out a casket. You don't want to be a parent wondering if you told your child that you loved them. That, last minute. You want to -- you want to educate yourselves. This is the major thing we try to get across is know what you're talking about, know what these poisons are.
I've come to the point I don't want to use the term synthetic marijuana. Calling this stuff synthetic marijuana is like calling Astroturf grass. They're both green and you put them on the ball field, but that's where the similarities end. These are poisonous chemicals manufactured in China, smuggled into this country, sprayed on a biological substance, and they are predominantly marketed to our young people, our children, especially our young Caucasian males between the ages of 12 and 24. They are the major users of this product.
BALDWIN: Lance Dyer, years later, I admire your strength and your courage. I, again, am so sorry for your loss of Dakota. But thank you for coming on again and reminding all of us the story.
And take the man's advice. Tune in tonight, 9:00 eastern, for CNN's special investigative documentary, "Deadly High, How Synthetic Drugs Are Killing Kids."
Lance, thank you.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: It is only five days away, "CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute" hosted by Anderson Cooper. I was there, amazing guests and artists, including performances by Sheryl Crow and Trisha Yearwood. And a surprise presenter who has been trying to get in on the show. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, CNN HEROES, AN ALL-STAR TRIBUTE: You've been trying to get involved with "Heroes" for a long time now.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: First of all, you have a lot of nerve even bringing up "Heroes" to me.
COOPER: Why?
GRIFFIN: talk about a wounded warrior. I have been wanting to present a "Heroes" forever because I think it's a truly amazing award show. And I believe I confronted you New Year's Eve about it.
COOPER: All right.
GRIFFIN: Let's talk about "Heroes." Let's talk about it.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: What about "Heroes"?
GRIFFIN: "CNN Heroes" is an amazing show.
COOPER: An amazing night.
GRIFFIN: Exactly. Number one, not only was I not even invited --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: What do you mean you're not invited?
GRIFFIN: They told me that they didn't trust me.
COOPER: Did people not know you were actually volunteering and going overseas to Afghanistan and Iraq? That would seem to --
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: No, I guess, apparently over CNN you guys are so worried about my potty mouth they actually said, you can't come to the show or present, however, what if we showed you mopping up at a soup kitchen.
COOPER: To make up for past wrongs, I would very much like you to present at "CNN Heroes." Is that something you'd be willing to do?
GRIFFIN: You trust me?
COOPER: I absolutely trust you.
GRIFFIN: I'm excited to go.
COOPER: Well, thank you. I'm glad you'll be there.
GRIFFIN: Do I have to mop the floor?
COOPER: No.
GRIFFIN: Just tell me now.
COOPER: No.
ANNOUNCER: "CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute," Sunday night, December 7th, at 8:00 eastern.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: And we're on hour three. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
