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Grand Jury's Decision On Eric Garner Case Likely To Come Down This Week; ISIS Leader's Family Captured; Can Ben Carson Win The White House?

Aired December 02, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Half past the hour, you are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The Ferguson case is not the only one where a grand jury decision will likely ignite strong reaction. New York City may be very close to knowing if there will be an indictment of the officers involved in last July's chokehold death of an unarmed black man, 43-year-old Eric Garner.

Now the attorney for one of the officers tells CNN that he believes his client was the last person scheduled to testify. Keep in mind, that grand jury convened back in September. CNN's Randi Kaye recaps the events leading up to Eric Garner's death.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): July 17th, Eric Garner is about to be arrested in Staten Island, New York, for illegally selling loose cigarettes, but something goes horribly wrong and it's all caught on tape by a bystander.

ERIC GARDNER, 43-YEAR-OLD: I'm minding my business, officer. I'm minding my business. Please, just leave me alone.

KAYE: That's Garner, a black 43-year-old father of six weighing 350 pounds. Several New York City police officers are about to take him down.

GARDNER: Don't touch me (bleep). Don't touch me. (Bleep).

KAYE: Look closely, one officer, Daniel Pantaleo, who is white, has his arm around Garner's neck.

Listen to Garner's cries. Muscle side of (INAUDIBLE).

Garner: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

KAYE: What police may not have known was that Garner suffered from asthma. His body appears to go limp. Garner was later declared dead in a nearby hospital. Police say he had a heart attack and died on the way.

Less than a month after his death, the New York City medical examiner made the official ruling, the cause of death compression of neck, a chokehold, plus, compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police. His death was ruled a homicide. Complicating matters, the M.E. also found that asthma, obesity and cardiovascular disease were contributing factors.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: All right. Randi Kaye, thank you.

Just like Ferguson, there were days of massive protest over Eric Garner's death. And who knows what can happen when the jury has that decision.

Here with me now, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin. And it is horrendous to watch the video. But that was the first point I want to make. You know, unlike where in Ferguson you -- there was some audio. Here, you see it.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You do. And I think that's really important to note. Because if you listen to Michael Brown's parents, what they want to pass is the Michael Brown law which would require police officers all over the country to have video cameras on their person.

BALDWIN: What the president proposed.

HOSTIN: What the president also proposed. So you would see this kind of thing in all cases. And you know, I think it's sort of the best evidence. A lot of people take issue with eyewitness testimony. I actually think it's more reliable than others believe it is. But I think this kind of evidence is just so very important. And it is the trend, right? It is where we are going, I think, in terms of law enforcement. I've got to tell you, though, looking at this video, it is so very disturbing to me, Brooke, because remember what the infraction was.

BALDWIN: Remind us.

HOSTIN: The infraction is selling cigarettes loosely. That's it. Does it take that many police officers to take down someone that is illegally selling cigarettes? And a choke hold in my view clearly an inappropriate police tactic. And so we are all waiting in New York, of course, to hear from the grand jury. But I -- I don't know that the grand jury has that difficult of a case before it. I mean its probable cause. I feel like I'm repeating myself in terms of the Ferguson matter. The standard for probable cause is very low. It's just probably a crime occurred. More likely than not, a crime occurred. We're all looking at this video. This is a big guy, yes, but was he armed? No. Was he being combative, not that I can tell. So that tells me, you know, certainly there's probable cause to indict here.

BALDWIN: Let me take you back quickly to, I think, reiterating the point about body cameras and how that really could help in so many of these cases moving forward. But then you also hear from critics saying these officers can just turn them off. HOSTIN: I have heard that. And I think that would have to be part of

the law. There has to be a response, some sort of penalty for an officer not having -- having the camera on. And I think that's a small thing.

I just want to correct something I just said because I know I'm going to get twitter hate from it. I said it doesn't appear that he is being combative. What I mean is, it doesn't appear the officers' lives are in danger, you know, of imminent death. And that really is the standard. I mean, we're talking about a chokehold death. It just seems to be such a clear cut decision.

And I wonder what the response will be if, again, there's no indictment. And one of the things, Brooke, I've been talking about is we have all of these officer-related shootings, officer-related deaths, going in front of the grand jury when a prosecutor can't charge. If that is the case, I think that what we need to be looking at in terms of law enforcement is having special prosecutors --

BALDWIN: Special prosecutors.

HOSTIN: assigned every single time there's an officer involved fatality. Every single time, why are the police allowed to police themselves and investigate themselves? I think it's too much to ask for anyone. It has the appearance of impropriety.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you.

HOSTIN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Again, decision from that grand jury any day now. We'll follow that.

Ahead, we've seen how ISIS treats the men and women their capture. Now someone close to the terror group's leader may also have been caught. How much do they know? How will that questioning begin?

Plus, Ben Carson, do you know who Ben Carson is? World renowned doctor, conservative political rock star, but is he a real contender for the White House? Our new poll suggests, yes, indeed, he is in that conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: CNN is following a developing story this hour, involving the leader of ISIS. Sources tell CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson that one of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's two wives and one of his own children have been arrested in a joint operation by Iraqi, Syrian and Lebanese intelligence.

Now according to Nic's reporting, this woman is important, is a powerful figure, actually of her own right inside of ISIS and inside a terrorist organization. He says she had been tracked for some time and that western intelligence agencies were aware of her capture.

So let me bring in former CIA operative Bob Baer. And we have to assume, Bob, that the questioning of this wife, right, has already begun. Who does the questioning? What are they asking?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, the Lebanese will. They're very good at this and they're going to be looking for technical information. For instance, where is Abu Bark al-Baghdadi living? Where is his residences? What's the security like? Because at the end of the day, we, as well as the Lebanese and the Iraqis, would like to decapitate this organization. Get rid of Abu Bark al- Baghdadi. So they're going to be looking for that, first of all, on any other vulnerabilities in security. They're also going to want to -- she's going to want to know how the organization is set up because it's still a mystery, big parts of it for us. And so, this will go on for a very long time.

BALDWIN: How do they get her to talk? What's in it for her to talk?

BAER: Well, the daughter has been arrested, as well. She won't get out of a Lebanese jail unless there's some sort of trade. You know, everybody's vulnerable to interrogation. Lebanese know what they're doing. But then, again, we'll know how tough she is. She might not say a word.

BALDWIN: Is it -- how does it strike you? I mean, it struck me talking to Nic last hour that apparently this wife truly is this powerful figure inside of ISIS. When you think of this male dominant culture, how does that strike you?

BAER: Well, it's a bit of a paradox because women are powerful in organizations like this, but they're sort of behind the screen. They have a lot of influence on the men, they often take care of the money, they care of -- even strategy. Because we see the men in public, but the women do have a role in this as they always had going back to the times of the prophet.

BALDWIN: Bob, thank you.

Ben Carson has heard the doubters all his life, told his classmates who beat him at school. He grew up to be one of the world's best neurosurgeons. But can he win the White House? A lot of people think that answer is yes. Do you know who he is? We'll tell you coming up.

And teenagers, they are dying from drugs. But tests don't show what these drugs are. A new threat is hitting kids in communities across America. We'll explain what that is and how to stop it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Still a long, long way from the 2016 election, but just for the record, we have a poll. Republicans choice for president -- Top five, Romney, Carson, Bush, that's Jeb, not George, Christie and Huckabee. That is your Republican top five here in the fall of 2014.

And, listen, I hear the question you're asking. Not everyone, but a lot of you are asking, who's Carson? Well, here he is. Ben Carson, never run for office, but an amazing life story that's captivating a lot of Republicans.

Here is CNN's Mark Preston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CARSON, CONSERVATIVE: -- put me into the White House. And --

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: If you don't know who Ben Carson Is, he's going to appear on your radar soon. To say Ben Carson is not an American success story would be really selling him short. He grew up on the streets of Detroit. He overcame many obstacles and became a celebrated pediatric neurosurgeon.

In fact, he was the first neurosurgeon to separate conjoined twins.

Any presidential candidate would die for a made for TV feel good movie about their life. For Ben Carson, box checked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If one baby dies, we need to separate him as fast as possible and give all shared tissue to the surviving twin.

PRESTON: While Carson is very soft spoken, he's also very provocative with his language.

CARSON: I know you're not supposed to say Nazi Germany, but I don't care about political correctness.

I think what's happening with the veterans is a gift from God to show us what happens when you take layers and layers of bureaucracy and place them between the patients and the health care provider.

Obamacare is the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.

PRESTON: Carson defends himself whenever he's criticized for using these examples.

CARSON: The PC police are out in force at all times.

PRESTON: While Ben Carson was well known, certainly in the medical community, it wasn't until February of 2013 when he was speaking at the national prayer breakfast that he really exploded on to the political scene.

CARSON: What we need to do in this PC world is forget about unanimity of speech.

Unanimity of speech and unanimity of fun.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So that is the Ben Carson story and some story it is. In terms of where he stands, here's the deal. As we've heard, he is against what he calls political correctness. He's against Obamacare. He's against gay marriage, pro-business, none of which sets him apart from other Republican prospects.

Jake Tapper, let me bring you in from Washington, our chief Washington correspondent. The real question is, then, when you're talking to Republicans, where does Ben Carson's true appeal come from?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you heard it there is he doesn't sound at all like a politician. And in addition, he benefits from the fact that he doesn't have a record, unlike governor Mitt Romney, and Governor Chris Christie and Governor Jeb Bush or Senator Rand Paul or Senator Ted Cruz. There isn't anything he has do done, any votes he has cast or any deal he has cut that anyone can take issue with and he sounds so much like somebody who isn't a politician, isn't out there trying to get your vote but is a true outsider and that's because he is a true outsider.

BALDWIN: So -- OK, true outsider, maybe that's helping him now but down the road, couldn't that hurt him? I mean, after all, the people -- we elect the president and there are always politicians.

TAPPER: That's right. I mean, with the exception of Dwight Eisenhower who had just helped win World War II, usually these are people who we elect --

BALDWIN: That's nothing, by the way.

TAPPER: Who have won something. And I think where this is going to be problematic for Dr. Carson, should he choose to run is, getting that all important support in the field, getting an organization, getting endorsements, getting people to hold fund-raisers for him, getting people to have meet and greets for him, getting people Iowa, getting people in New Hampshire.

As of now, he has, I don't want to say coasted, but has gotten as far as he has based on his charisma and his message and the fact that he is an outsider. When push comes to shove and you actually run for president, you need an organization and we'll see if he's able to get that together.

BALDWIN: Charisma, just like you, Jake Tapper. Just like you.

TAPPER: He's a lot more soft-spoken than I am, although, his rhetoric is much more blistering, I think.

BALDWIN: I kid because I love. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts at the top of the hour. We always tune in. Thank you very much, my friend.

TAPPER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Now, the day -- when this is emotional outburst actually become a crime? Police are looking at Michael Brown's stepfather, investigating whether what he screamed eight times incited a riot. We'll delve in that ahead.

And a new threat to American teens, not heroin or crystal meth, but something that police have are having trouble identifying. Don't miss it. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: As if parents with teenagers don't have enough to worry about, there is this slew of deadly drugs that your young sons and daughters can easily get over the internet. But don't be fooled, because these drugs are not harmless. Kids are dying. Tonight at 9:00 eastern, CNN senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin with an investigation every parent should see.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need somebody now!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He started to foam at the mouth, convulsing uncontrollably.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first time we reached out to a school system, to the university and said, hey, there's a danger on the streets.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deadly new drugs on America's streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was nothing like anything I've ever had before. The trees looked like cauliflowers, it like dancing around.

GRIFFIN: Designed to evade the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once they alter that chemical, it's no longer a controlled substance.

GRIFFIN: And to maximize profit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We process, you know, $40,000 to $50,000 a month in credit card.

GRIFFIN: Imported into the U.S. by mail and sold online.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He set up a large scale drug trafficking organization by using computer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That to me is scary. The stuff is not safe just because you can order it on the Internet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most people don't know what they are. But they will kill your kids.

GRIFFIN: The new drug threat, a deadly high.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: You heard his voice. Here he is, Drew Griffin with our special investigative unit. You know, I was talking about with a dad last hour who lost his child. He refuses to even call it synthetic drugs. He was like its poison.

GRIFFIN: It really is poison. It really is.

BALDWIN: Tell me about these two young people in North Dakota. This is where the story starts for you.

GRIFFIN: And to attack kids, one is a high school football star. The other is a skater kid. Different background, different groups of individuals they circulating. One weekend they both die from an overdose and this community goes into a panic because nobody knows what they overdosed from, where the drugs were coming from. And as we get into the story, it starts to unravel and we take the drugs backwards to where they came from, how they were distributed and I think that will really resonate with how easy it is to get this stuff.

BALDWIN: Where are they coming from?

GRIFFIN: The stuff is made mostly in Chinese laboratories. We're not talking about cartels. We are not talking about drug gangs. We're talking about Chinese businesses who are churning out this stuff, selling it in bulk as research chemicals, not for human consumption, which is 100 percent BS. And then they send it to the Europe, to UK, Australia and the U.S. markets where people have money and it's distributed.

BALDWIN: But the issue with these young people who OD within the same weekend, initially police have no clue, no clue what it was that killed them.

GRIFFIN: No. Absolutely no clue. And that's why there was such a panicked response because other kids were overdosing. They didn't know where it was coming from. They didn't know how much was still out there, what batch was going around this town. And this is -- this is grand forks, North Dakota, this is Middle America. They really had no clue what is happening.

BALDWIN: I don't want you to fully give this away but in the final minute I have. You all traced this case back to a source, to a person, who agreed to talk to you.

GRIFFIN: I will tell you, it's an exclusive interview with the actual drug dealer who put these drugs in a bag, put them in the mail and sent them to North Dakota. He is a father of two.

BALDWIN: Wow.

GRIFFIN: Married. His life is completely ruined. But he has such remorse for the lives that have been taken because of what he did and before he was sentenced, we got an interview with him that just blew me away, just how open and honest he was about what he thought before, what he thinks now of these synthetic drugs, these poisons.

BALDWIN: I hope he showed remorse. We will tune in to see if he did.

Drew Griffin, thank you for the preview. Make sure you tune in tonight, 9:00 eastern for CNN's investigative documentary. We are calling it "Deadly High, how synthetic drugs are killing kids." Tune in. Do not miss that.

Thank you so much for being with me on this Tuesday. I'm Brook Baldwin live here in New York. I will see you back here tomorrow -- actually I'm up at 10:00 with Don Lemon. Don't miss that, a little Charles Barkley (ph) interview. We are going to squeeze in for you.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.