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Dr. Drew
A Mother Accused Of Killing Her Autistic Son By Throwing Him Off A Bridge; Controversy At Harvard University Where Students Taking A Course In Anal Sex; The "Perfect Gift" For Any Couple
Aired December 02, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a mother accused of killing her autistic son by throwing him off a bridge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: She said she was hearing voices of 6-year-old male in the water.
PINSKY (voice-over): Now the mommy blogger is on suicide watch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Also, sex controversy at Harvard University. Students taking a course in anal sex. We will explain. Let us get
started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. I am here with my co-host Samantha Schacher. And, we are reporting a 34-year-old mom charged with murder
after police say she threw her 6-year-old autistic son off a bridge, then she apparently called 911 herself to report it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We have a possible water rescue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Appearing in a suicide prevention vest, bail set at $1 million, accused mother, Jillian McCabe made her first court
appearance 18 hours earlier. Rescue crews had swarmed the bay after the 34-year-old called 911 and reported she had carried her 6-year-old child to
the middle of this bridge and thrown him off the edge into the cold water below.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Threw her son off the bridge. Said she was hearing voices of a 6-year-old male in the water and she cannot handle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: McCabe described hearing voices at the time of her son is death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss McCabe, it is very important for you not to talk to anybody about this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: McCabe was mostly silent during that video court appearance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Very sad. Some of the photos were from Facebook. Joining us Vanessa Barnett from Hiphollywood.com. I also have Leeann Tweeden, social
commentator, host of "Tomboys" Podcast on Blog Talk Radio. Kelvin Washington, Social Commentator, radio host. Sam, what else do we now?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER , HLN HOST: Dr. Drew, such a heart wrenching and disturbing story. But the drop from the Yaquina Bay Bridge in New Port
Oregon is 133 feet. OK? The 6-year-old is body was in the water for four hours before he was found. Members of Jillian is family said she struggled
with mental illness.
And, Jillian is husband was also diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and could not work. Their marriage was strained for a while, but as of recent
it has seem to of appeared to be on the mends.
PINSKY: About a year ago, the mom, Jillian sat down, Jillian McCabe. She sat down for an interview about her difficulties. It was posted on
YouTube. Let us have a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILLIAN MCCABE, MOTHER WHO THREW HER 6-YEAR-OLD AUTISTIC SON OFF A BRIDGE: I am losing it a lot. But, I am holding it together. I have a severely
autistic son and it has been hard through the years. And, now I have a slightly disabled and amazing husband, and I feel alone. And, I feel like
all of a sudden I am this caregiver and I do not feel like a whole person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa, I found that interview kind of confusing. and this whole situation are confusing, too.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it was very Confusing because, first of all, there is no reason to kill your child. And, I know we have
been talking about mental illness. And typically I am not one to get on board with such of vast term feel like it is still need to be define so
much. But we do know she was -- she had documented mental illness.
And, they have really explore so many options, she just got several doors smacked in her face. She tried to go to public assistance, private
assistance. They tried to put her in facilities. They were out patient, they turn -- they had to let her go because of what impermanent inpatient
would not take her. So, she really tries to figure that mental health issue while --
PINSKY: I am going to tell you what Vanessa, we have to figure out what is this mental health issues. But beyond that, I do not -- we are going to
devaluated it a little bit further. But I bet you the resources that were provided to her were somehow restricted because of lack of insurance or
lack of state funding or something. Leeann, you are nodding your head, do you agree?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean Dr. Drew, you never kill your child. I am sorry, you know my best friend, Danni, you have done our
Podcast, she has an autistic son and she loves that boy more than anything in this world and she would never ever, ever think about killing him.
There are always other options. And, look, everybody deals with hardship. My best friend has breast cancer. Her daughter just had leukemia, but you
do not think about killing yourself or killing your child. There is just - - that is not an option.
I want to read something, a statement on the death of Linda McCabe from the Autistic Self Advocacy Network. "We urge the media to remember how
reprehensible it is for a parent or caregiver to kill a child and to avoid framing murder children as burdens on their family. Never an excuse, just
because you are having a hard time or stressful time to kill your child. Never an excuse.
BARNETT: But you do not ignore the fact that she has a mental health issue.
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: We do not even know that.
PINSKY: We will get into that.
BARNETT: That is a pivotal part of this story.
PINSKY: You know, I agree with you. Sam, do you agree?
SCHACHER: I agree with Vanessa here. Listen, when I first heard the story, Leeann, I was on board with you, right. And, we just saw a tweet
where somebody said, somebody throw -- throw her, this mother off the bridge. And I thought that, too.
And, then when I looked into her back story and I saw that she supposedly is suffering from a mental illness and has been kicked out of treatment or
discharge from a number of different treatment centers.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: And her family members were on board with that --
PINSKY: Or left -- Or left.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Hold on. But if that is the case, what a great example, a horrible example rather of how important it does -- it is for us in this
country to have better resources for mental health.
PINSKY: Absolutely -- Sam, you are singing to the choir. But, I think Kelvin would have none any of this, is that right?
KELVIN WASHINGTON, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know what an interesting points have been made. Sam just brought up a great point that there is
needs to be more mental health awareness, more funding towards that.
But I find it peculiar, one thing that is strange to me is where did the family -- not that they are culpable, but where did they -- they knew she
had some challenges.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: Did the family not want to jump in? When she says, I sometimes think of doing a Thelma and Louise, we all know what that meant,
driving off the cliff.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes.
WASHINGTON: That is a telltale sign. That was something she said behind closed doors. That was something she said publicly.
SCHACHER: Right.
WASHINGTON: So, I am a bit disturbed that maybe there was no things done to take care of child and give her time to heal.
BARNETT: But, the family did so much --
SCHACHER: They did.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let me show you. Hey, Vanessa, hold on. Let me -- let me -- Vanessa, I want to read for you what one of the some, I guess one of the
family members have reported about her mental health issues.
They did not specify what specifically they were, but they did say quote "very ill" unquote. And, she was supposed to be committed to a state
hospital, which means some sort of very serious, chronic usually thought issue, like schizophrenia.
She was supposed to be there for six months. She ended up in a residential facility but was discharged early. This is the part the people need to be
aware of. If -- everybody out there, she has gone several months now without treatment.
Anybody, if you are in a -- in a chronic or any sort of facility and the professionals tell you that you need more care and you will have none of it
or you have a hearing to get yourself out of it, it is going to go badly.
And families, you got to get consular ship (ph), you got to do whatever you can to get control these situations. A huge part of mental illness is a
lack of insight, a lack of awareness of your problem. So every decision you make it is going to be influence by the sick brain. And, that you
cannot let somebody do that themselves or their children as a result -- Vanessa.
BARNETT: And on top of that the families are not educated. Some people look at this person like, "She looks better, maybe she is better." They do
not know that that is so much more going on inside of her head. They do not know how to help. They do not know --
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: Come on. The family admitted they knew she had issues.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: If your husband was diagnosed with M.S. high, complete stressors, maybe they go -- go and let us take the boy. Let us help you out a little
bit. Where is the family? Where is community?
PINSKY: Kelvin.
WASHINGTON: Do we question any motives with the videos that she was posting lately, kind of getting something out there, so that if this
tragedy happened she could been possibly plead insanity. This is something that she could -- because we can all say, you know she --
TWEEDEN: She loves the attention, I will tell you that.
PINSKY: First of all, Kelvin, thank you for being Evy -- Evy tonight. The Kelvin playing role this evening. I appreciate that. Looking for the
sinister in every situation. That is OK. But listen, Let us be careful guys when you -- these are challenging difficult situations. When you
blame the family, now we have more victims. We really do.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: We should not be blaming them.
TWEEDEN: The victim here is the child. Let us not forget that.
BARNETT: Absolutely.
TWEEDEN: Please. He is dead.
SCHACHER: Of course.
PINSKY: Next. I have got more on the tragic story. The boy`s diagnosis, the father`s issues, the impact of it all, the Behavior Bureau is here.
And, later, a woman gives quote "the gift of sex" unquote to her husband. She grants him relations every day for a year. Yes, we are going to report
on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Accused mother, Jillian McCabe, described hearing voices at the time of his son`s death.
MCCABE: I am taking care of my son London and Matt full time. Luckily, we are receiving unemployment from when Matt was laid off. I am applying for
any and all assistance available. I need your help.
I love my husband and he is taking care of myself and my son for years and years and now it is time for me to take the helm. I am scared and I am
reaching out. I hope I am not coming across as trashy or over reactionary. I must explore every avenue to take care of my family right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We are talking about the mother, so-called accused of murder. Police say she threw her 6-year-old autistic son off a bridge.
Very sad story.
Let us bring in the Behavior Bureau. Judy Ho, Clinical Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University; Erica America, Psychotherapist, TV
Host. Wendy Walsh, Psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox."
Now, I want to show you guys something. I interviewed Sheila Shea. This a mom who stabbed her 6-year-old son to death. Sheila was in a psychotic
state, hearing voices. She was ultimately found guilty by reason of insanity. But, I want you to get a sense of how this can to happen. Watch
this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEILA SHEA, MOTHER: I thought that if -- if I killed my kids and then killed myself, that there would not be anybody to hurt them. And, I
thought that at least I would be merciful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Judy, there you have a mom, so-called, who was in this psychotic state believing she was saving her children from some sort of
paranoid delusions she had by killing her son. She was going to kill everybody including herself. Is this likely to been same kind of thing?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST & PROFESSOR, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY: I do not think so, Dr. Drew. I think we have a couple of clues that would point
to something else happening in this case.
And, I think one of it -- one of them is a desperation that this mom had in terms of the overwhelming responsibility of caring for two disabled people
in her family.
PINSKY: So stress? So, a lot of stress.
HO: Absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. All right. And what else?
HO: And, so that is number one. And number two is all of the lead-up for her to try to get at resources and having problems with it. There were
multiple records of her reaching out to private and public sources of mental health care and financial care and she was denied all of them.
PINSKY: Well, that is -- see -- that -- that makes me suspect. Wendy, I worry that A. There is not adequate resources, but I also worry people are
not taking advantage of what is there.
I mean she goes to a crowd sharing site. Their opening piece talks about a crowd sharing financial site. Right, Sam? Where she is trying to raise
money.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Oregon does not have mental health resources, of course they do.
SCHACHER: Right. When she was going to ucaring.com and asking for $50,000, because remember her husband was just diagnosed because she --
PINSKY: But, they are living apart though and then he had M.S. and somebody else was taking care of him.
SCHACHER: Well, at that point she was -- she felt that she needed help to --
PINSKY: But no, I understand -- I get it, but Wendy, you get what I am getting out here? I mean she was not using the system that she like.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: She was not using the system Dr. Drew because she did not have the ability to even understand the system or how
to take advantage of it.
This is a woman suffering from mental illness. Let me tell you. I have a Ph.D. and I worked so hard to get services from my daughter that is a
little bit in the spectrum. And, it nearly killed me to figure out the system. OK?
SCHACHER: There you go. Yes.
PINSKY: OK.
WALSH: So just, imagine somebody who is suffering from a mental illness who may not have the resources or the education to take be able take
advantage of the services that are there. But, she knows crowd sourcing because that is available for her.
PINSKY: Well, because that is sort of the social media thing. People talk about that, but they do not talk about this sort of intricacy or the
bureaucracy of the mental health system. Erica, all you guys have a really interesting streaking look, but Erica, you especially.
ERICA AMERICA, HOST AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, I think this was actually a kind, devoted mother who really was trying her best to deal with these
mounting stressors between her husband and her son.
As she was reaching out, she even said literally on YouTube that she was suicidal. Everybody tried to kind a help her. Unfortunately, it did not
work out. And, I think she became psychotic at to the point where she was having, you know delusion, hallucinations, voices and she was doing just
like that interview you have shown, exactly that.
PINSKY: But -- right.
AMERICA: So, she threw him off because of the -- do I think she did it on purpose, no. Of course is she still guilty of doing it? Yes, it is
horrible but I think she was insane at the time.
PINSKY: But Judy, your sort of saying, yes, it is because -- I mean, do not you think even we are under pressure or whatever --
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: You eventually got some sort of psychotic form of thinking. My other question for everybody, does everybody know what a suicide vest is?
They said -- they said it they have she had a suicide vest on. I do not know what that even is. Do you guys know?
HO: No, that was weird.
PINSKY: That was weird. So, Judy, you are shaking your head no about this psychosis theory that Erica proposed.
HO: Yes. I do not think that is necessary what is playing out here.
PINSKY: There is the vest.
HO: I think the stress of what she was going through could have made her so desperate to get rid of something that she can no longer take care of,
right?
PINSKY: Well, that is little -- Sam.
HO: And that is her child. That is the horrible thing to think about.
PINSKY: Sam.
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh. OK. So, question to the panel, if she was suffering from hearing voices and delusions, are you in the right frame of
mind to know to ask for help? Or you completely relies on others around you.
PINSKY: No.
WALSH: Of course not.
PINSKY: Look. I think Wendy makes a great point. I hate the bureaucracy of government. Wendy, I hats off to you for trying working it. But, I
cannot imagine if you were sick, it would be almost impossible.
SCHACHER: Right.
WALSH: Yes. It was very, very much impossible for me. It took me two years, Dr. Drew, of battling the system and being turned away. And, I have
smarts and availability and it was very difficult. So, my heartbreaks for this women and I feel like we all sort of failed her.
PINSKY: Now, the husband --
AMERICA: I agree, Wendy. I agree.
PINSKY: -- Matt wrote about the marriage and the challenge of having an autistic son and his multiple sclerosis diagnosis, getting off with
sclerosis is autoimmune attack on certain parts of the brain. You all see him in social media to express his feelings.
This is from his blog. Quote "Some of you know and some of you do not, Jillian and I we are living apart right now. Life happens. We are still
together but leaving apart. This has been very difficult but life is unique." Right, Sam? I do not, I --
SCHACHER: My only question, Dr. Drew, in all of this, if the family knew, and believe me, I do not want to slam this family because after the
research that I saw, they did try to help her get some treatment.
PINSKY: They tried. Yes.
SCHACHER: But why, would she allowed custody of this child if they knew that she was suffering?
PINSKY: Boy, that is a big question.
SCHACHER: And where did the father step in, in all of this?
PINSKY: Here is the -- for anybody at home trying to make sense, there is two take home messages. A. Stigma kills, everybody. Stigma about mental
illness kills. If you cannot step up and say, "I am suffering from mental illness and I need help," it can really harm people. Or if you go to a
facility and go "I do not really want to stay here, because I do not need this," that is responding to stigma. That is number one.
Number two -- I am sorry, three points, resources are hard to come by, particular my for mental health. People do not seems to understand how --
how profoundly dangerous these conditions are. And, then finally, if you do get resources and you have professional team giving you advice, listen
to the letter of what they tell you.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: Do not just cut corners and think you know better. It is going to end up in a disaster. Next up, we have something called sex week at
Harvard University. It is a controversy on campus. They specifically have a course, yes, everybody, a course, on anal sex. And, that is creating
quite a bit of controversy.
And, later the gift, that keeps on giving. A couple, a wife that offers a relations for year, a surprise birthday gift for her husband. Do they keep
it up or not or continue or whatever back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Kelvin. This now is the most tweeted story tonight. It is so-called sex week at Harvard University.
Student groups are offering classes and seminars that deals with everything from Kinkynacy (ph), intimate relations. All right Sam, what is on the ---
sorry to become Greg Bre (ph) -- what is on the syllabus this week?
SCHACHER: OK, Dr. Drew. Let us see, we have got brown girls do it well. A Queer Diaspora Remix, Sexy and I know it, Losing your concept of
Virginity, Jungle Fever On Exotification, 50 shades of false kink, fantasy and fetish and love at first swipe, online hookup culture.
PINSKY: And, then what caught our produce is eye, is what, what in the butt, anal sex 101. Here is the reenactment of the description of the
class. Here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come learn everything about anal sex from the experts of good vibrations. A sex-positive store located right in Brookline. They
will dispel myths about anal sex and give you insight and to why people do it and how to do it well.
They will cover a wide variety of topics, including anal anatomy and the potential for pleasure for all genders, how to talk about it with a
partner, basic preparation and hygiene, lubes, anal toys, and safer sex, anal penetration for beginners and much more.
Learn the facts about this exciting yet often misunderstood form of pleasure. Find out the common mistakes people make and get all your
questions answered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a reenactment. And, I do not really know what to say -- Vanessa.
(LAUGHTER)
BARNETT: Well, first of all, what, what in the butt is actually a song. It should have been Grammy nominated or something goes with what, what in
the butt, what, what in the butt --
PINSKY: OK. All right. We are good.
BARNETT: I feel like I have to give it to you.
PINSKY: I do not get in light but I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Secondly, I am so on board with this. I love this.
PINSKY: You are on board with it?
BARNETT: I am. Because I still like sex education needs to be revamped and just changed up, swish up because if you -- you have got to keep one
the Jones and the Jones, unfortunately or fortunately are having anal sex. And, I just want to apologize to my grandmother because it is her birthday
and I know she is watching and I am so sorry about this conversation.
But look, if you do not want to know about anal sex do not enroll in the courses, that is simple. But simple fact that there is a course lets us
know that people are curious, they want to know more and they want to explore more.
PINSKY: But-- all right. Let me ask Leeann, do we -- Harvard University has to put this on? Cannot they go online to any of go kinds of places?
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
PINSKY: Or could not they go to that -- that store -- the sex store? They have sure they would put also symposium.
TWEEDEN: OK. First of all, Harvard University, Ivy League, the best and brightest of the world are being taught at Harvard University. And, you
are going to tell me that our young of becoming academics that are young adults, they are not children need to have anal courses about lube and toys
and what they need to do?
I think, Harvard needs to worry about educating their students. They are not educating among sex education. Let us face it, these are young kids,
they are all online. I am sure that this is not the first time that they have ever looked it up, been curious about it, look it up on Google, or
look it up on YouTube. Why does Harvard need to be doing it?
PINSKY: Sam.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: That is right, that is my question.
SCHACHER: I rather then receive it -- but Harvard is it -- it is an institution for education. And, I would rather them --
TWEEDEN: Anal education?
PINSKY: But Sam --
SCHACHER: I would rather them -- hold on let me finish my statement. I rather them learn about how to engage in anal sex safely rather than
looking it up on Google, Dr. Drew. Listen, everybody is having all kinds and different types of sex.
And, I am not just talking about single people or heterosexual couples. What about same-sex couples. Why cannot they go if they are interested in
doing this in a very safe and responsible way? Why cannot they be provided that education? And, thank God my parents have Dish network.
PINSKY: But -- Kelvin -- Kelvin there is -- Harvard has one of the top medical schools in the country. They go bigger balloons hospital and they
can get professionals to come in and give them all the training with the clinical background to help them understand --
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
PINSKY: really, deeply the potential problems with this.
TWEEDEN: Not the sex toys --
SCHACHER: That I agree with.
PINSKY: Not from somebody who is selling sex toys.
SCHACHER: That I agree.
WASHINGTON: Yes. Well, you know, to Sam`s point, you know, to each his own. Some people, that is what they do. I would not be an expert in this
particular topic. But --
(LAUGHING)
TWEEDEN: Yikes!
WASHINGTON: I do say, you know education is always a good thing. However, to Leeann`s point, we could be doing so much more with this Harvard
education. We could be curing Ebola.
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: We can help out with the economy right now, we could be doing so many other better things with this Harvard education. I understand that
young people, you know, need to understand how to pleasure -- enjoy pleasurable things.
PINSKY: All right --
WASHINGTON: But, this is must be a bit much --
PINSKY: I am with Kelvin. And, Vanessa, is still has to have her way with this.
TWEEDEN: Sorry, grandma.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Vanessa. And, we will finish to this. Go ahead.
TWEEDEN: Sorry.
BARNETT: If you are going to learn, you want to learn from the best. And outside Harvard University --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Vanessa, I am going to talk to one of the students that put this on in a second. That is my great concern about this is it, it is not being
supervised by health professionals. And, we will talk to her and how she is dealing with the controversy.
And, later, daily sex for a year. Take our poll at Facebook page, our Facebook page drdrewhln, whether or not for a year every day would be a
good thing or a bad thing. Would you do this? We have a spouse that does it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 50 Shades of False, Kink, fantasy and fetish, we will explore supposedly taboo topics in sexuality, namely the kinky. Munch,
Harvard`s kink and alternative sexuality group, will run a presentation on kink through the lens of the ever popular Fifty Shades of Grey. This
presentation will attempt to expose and attempt to correct inaccuracies and the books portrayal of kink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, I hope they get into more than just the inaccuracies in the kink, because that book, I have got tons of problems with it. But that, of
course, was an re-enactment. And back to Sam and our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica and Wendy.
That was one of the many classes that Harvard University is annual sex week offers. The another class that is causing controversy, we discussed that
in the last segment was -- according to Vanessa, from the song, "What, what in the butt," Anal sex 101.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Now, Wendy, I am going to - again, I am going to talk to the woman that organized this, my concern is, I am not clear that it is being
supervised by student health or be prevented - or being presented by health professionals.
WALSH: I agree with you, Dr. Drew. I think that using the sexy, exciting headlines are wonderful, because it lures in these young people. If they
want to call it "50 Shades of Grey," which I call it "50 Shades of Abuse," or "What, what in the Butt" --
PINSKY: Thank you.
WALSH: -- whatever, they can certainly do that in order to get them to show up and then slide in the education and good medical knowledge.
PINSKY: Erica, would you have gone to something like that back in college?
SCHACHER: OK.
AMERICA: Yes, well, I just found out in the last segment that this was not really being run by Harvard University, in that statement. So, that kind
of changes my view a little bit. But before I saw that, I was saying thanks to Nikki Minaj, Kim Kardashian, everything is about the booty these
days.
People are talking about it, people are talking about anal sex and why not have it at Harvard University, such a prestigious place, talking about it
in an educational way. I think there is nothing wrong with this.
PINSKY: But Erica, if you were in college, you would show up to one of these classes?
(LAUGHTER)
AMERICA: Yes, I think I would.
PINSKY: OK.
AMERICA: I think I would just to find out, because I do not know anything about it. So, yes.
WALSH: Dr. Drew --
AMERICA: I would rather than let someone said, Google about it - I would not trust that. I would trust Harvard.
PINSKY: Wendy?
WALSH: Harvard wants to make sure that tomorrow`s world leaders reach their full potential --
PINSKY: OK. Yes.
WALSH: -- without a perforated bowel.
PINSKY: Well --
AMERICA: There you go.
PINSKY: Again, I do not want to get into the specific - I am not sure it is the place for --
AMERICA: But everyone is a real person that goes from Harvard University, people that have sex.
WALSH: You are a doctor. You can use these terms.
PINSKY: I know, I am thinking about the blood supply to the area and what you guys need -- what people would need to know about it. But, it is not
like the result in perforation. Judy, help me with this.
HO: OK. Well, I think it is awesome that it is at Harvard, because they are actually the premiere institution to be able to do this. But it is -
that is - but it is not involving the health care professionals. They actually have.
PINSKY: And -- And, not just the health care professionals, Judy, but there is so much about this, this is about the interpersonal experience. I
mean you, guys, as mental health professionals should be especially concerned about it. It is an opportunity to talk about those nuances and
difficulties and why people do certain things and what - how people can be re-traumatized by these experiences.
HO: That is right.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: But Dr. Drew, if the course "What, what in the butt" was led by health care professionals, would you see this differently?
PINSKY: I would. And, that is why --
SCHACHER: Fair enough.
PINSKY: -- That is why I have asked Kirin Gupta. She is a junior in Harvard University. She is the co-founder of the group that organized the
event. So, Kirin, do you have -- who -- I have got so many questions. And, I am confused about a lot of things. Who is teaching these courses?
KIRIN GUPTA, CO-ORGANIZER HARVARD SEX WEEK: OK. So this course is actually run by health care professionals. It just happens to be a sex
educator who works at the - good vibrations, started as a sex education.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Because Kirin there is a giant difference between a health educator and a clinically trained professional.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Those are tied entirely different things. And, so, here you have a health educator jumping in there and you did not understand that that is
somebody has any clinical experience. But go ahead, so was this received, was it controversial, was it something that went over well?
GUPTA: So, sex week is a week-long initiative. And, it starts with a panel that is led by clinicians, from the university health services.
PINSKY: OK, that is more like it.
GUPTA: And that is a sex-Ed workshop. And, so, that is - that is like the introduction, all of the different sex acts and sexual processes, in forms
of NCC and sexuality that we are going to talk about throughout the week.
PINSKY: OK. So, there is your clinical team. So, they --
GUPTA: I have a question.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Wendy, what?
WALSH: Well, you know, there is so much emphasis on heightened sexuality and frequent sexuality and variety of sexuality. Do you also cover those
that try to practice virginity or asexual behavior? Is that considered pathological or is that something you also teach?
PINSKY: Good question.
GUPTA: So, the second workshop after the first panel with clinician is actually, "I am a virgin and an abstinence workshop." And, so, that ran on
Monday night.
AMERICA: Great.
GUPTA: So, that workshop is --
PINSKY: Erica, you have -- I am sorry, I am looking at our panelist`s respond to you while you are talking. Erica, you seem to have a little
distaste for this. What are you thinking? Or you looked like it. Maybe I am wrong.
AMERICA: No, distaste?
PINSKY: Well, you looked a little.
AMERICA: No, no, I was just -- I just think this was interesting. I would just think that I think it is great that they are doing -- you know, I just
-- I was -- I thought this was all run by health professionals. And, so I would have been a little more on board with that. But, I think it also
makes sense what she is saying and I think that they are providing a wide variety of anal sex and virginity. Yes.
PINSKY: Judy?
WALSH: That is the range.
PINSKY: Judy?
HO: I was just going to say, this is actually great. You use this in conjunction with its app like Tinder, because then you guys can be people
who are like minded in your sexual abstinence or your sexual approach.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Again, we are getting into territory that I am not so sure is this good territory.
WALSH: But wait, what about virgins that have anal sex? Is that is why they are doing this?
AMERICA: Oh, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But you know what -- but you know what? Kirin, let me ask you this, that is one of the sort of -- you know, love light over the years, I
have talked to many young people with specific -- particular people have certain religious orientations will reserve their virginity for that kind
of behavior, and it is really problematic. Did you get into any of that?
GUPTA: OK. So, what we do, well, we know we talk about sexuality and sexual practices at Harvard Sex Brigade -- Initiative. And I do - I do
want to be clear about that. We do involve a lot of clinicians. We have (INAUDIBLE) who come and talk to us, they always have your (INAUDIBLE),
work with us, and we work with our university health services. Sexual -- working on sexual assault and violence prevention. And, we work at all of
the different - (INAUDIBLE) and then adult services.
PINSKY: OK, I am feeling - I am feeling, just FYI -- I just - if I could say, I am feeling a lot better about this whole thing.
SCHACHER: Me too.
WALSH: It sounds very sex positive.
PINSKY: Well, not only sex positive, but the nuances are being explored, the clinical realities are being explored. And, then again, the
aggression, sexual aggression against women is so massive on campus. Now, you cannot -- into the fact you are getting into that, again, hats off. My
question to you, though, is what kind of criticism have you been getting and how have you been responding?
SCHACHER: Exactly.
GUPTA: So, we have been responding to a lot of the criticism in coming in, because I think it is been very singular and focused on this idea that the
"What, what in the butt" workshop is the only workshop that is being run or the only class that is being given and people are not looking at Harvard
sex week as the holistic enterprise, but teach -- over this weekend involves a variety of different discussions on different forms of sexual
decision making.
And, what Harvard Sex Education do is to open the dialogue on sex, sexuality, intimacy on our campus, and talk about sex and sexual practices
in a way that does not condone any one type of sexual decision making, but just emphasizes that all of it needs to be done with regard to consent, to
your own needs, to your partner`s needs, if you have a sexual partner and if you do not, that is fine also. But all of it needs to be done in a way
that is consensual --
PINSKY: Erica?
GUPTA: That we are all working constantly thinking about how to end --
AMERICA: Yes. So, Kirin, you are awesome. You are so well-spoken and you are intelligent, everything, but come on, you name that -- you knew that
people were going to like kind of be up in arms with that name, "What, what in the butt?"
It could have just been called like anal sex. And, I think that one even get as much as - "What, what in the butt." So, like I think you guys sort
of, kind of named it knowing that it will get a lot of attention.
PINSKY: I would sort of fall that in terms of getting attention. But maybe they had, you know, wanted to get the kids in the door, you know?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: You know, to do some provocative, to get this discussion going. What do you say?
GUPTA: Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say that we -- that there are definitely a few things about sex week that are very intentionally
provocative, because we do want to bring people into the door. We want to bring people into the room and we want people to be excited to talk about
this and to not be ashamed to talk about sex and sexuality.
Because I think one of the worst -- one of my worst fears for college campuses is that sex was something, it was only talked about in a shameful
way. People go out and they seek it, either online or in dark places or at parties.
And that is how a lot of the sexual aggression on our camp happened. And how a lot of sexual violence takes place that people are not willing to
have frank and open discussions about why is this happening.
PINSKY: Sam.
GUPTA: I do not want the students on my campus to be getting all the information they get about anal sex from viral or porn.
SCHACHER: Kirin .
PINSKY: Right. Right. Right.
SCHACHER: I agree with you, it is so important. Kirin, what has been the student body reaction, are they involved in sex week?
GUPTA: Yes. So, I actually think -- I have thought -- I went to the workshop yesterday. And, it was really fascinating for me to see the
entire Lacrosse team in the same room with the entire group of the career students -- group on our campus.
SCHACHER: Wow.
GUPTA: I think I have never seen both of those organizations in the same room.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: All right, well, that is good. All right, listen. Kirin, thank you for clearing this up. I was starting from a not so happy place and I
am feeling much better, more better about your -- the week you have organized. So hats off to you for that.
And, next up, new topic about sex and sexuality. We have a woman who had sex with her husband every day for a year. And, why she thinks that is the
perfect gift for any couple. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Charla Muller set out to have sex with her husband every day for a year.
BRAD MULLER, CHARLA`S HUSBAND: I turned her down, actually, if you can believe that. I was not sure she was serious and had completely thought
through the ramifications of what she was offering.
CHARLA MULLER, PLEDGED TO HAVE SEX EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A YEAR TO HIS HUSBAND: Intimacy had really slipped off our priority list. And, this was
a way, albeit a kind of wacky and wild way, to put that back at the top of the list again. We ended up averaging between 26 and 28 days a month. Sex
every day is not a long-term sustainable model, but neither is intimacy hardly ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Leeann, Kelvin and joining us, Emily Morse, sex-relationship expert, host of "Sex with Emily" podcast on iTunes. And,
that woman you just heard, that last statement she made was packed with a ton of information and questions. She gave her husband 365 days of sex for
his 40th birthday.
Before that, she says they were having it just twice a month, at the end of the year they averaged after this year that she gave him, they were -
managed to maintain 26 times a month. So, 26 out of 30 days.
So, Emily, is this a good model? She said something interesting. She said it is hard to sustain intimacy 365 days a year. I think she meant
emotional intimacy. And then she said this model, it was such a strange way of putting it, model of 365 days of sex is not necessarily a good model
for everybody.
EMILY MORSE, SEX & RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: No, it is -- yes, and I think this would scare many people away. I am thinking, I cannot -- We are lucky if
we can do it once a month, not 365 days.
PINSKY: Once a month does not sound good either.
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: What it brings up is that couples put -- they put sex on the back burner. They deprioritize intimacy. And, people -- couples need to be
intimate to have a healthy growing relationship, but yet, they do not realize that, you know, the kids, they have kids, they have work, they have
other things going on in their life, and they just think, "Oh, we will get back to sex." And, then too much time passes and they are no longer
intimate and then it is a disaster.
PINSKY: Well, so, Emily, just right there what you were saying. Leeann was really responding to that. Like kids -- back burner? Oh my God.
TWEEDEN: Laundry.
PINSKY: Laundry.
(LAUGHTER)
TWEEDEN: But then not long .
PINSKY: Deployment.
TWEEDEN: He said it is -- yes, deployment, well not sex, you know.
MORSE: Yes. Exactly.
TWEEDEN: You are kind of separated by force, but that one tweet said it sounded like a mutual gift, which I think is interesting. And, Dr. Drew,
you and I have talked about this before.
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: Sometimes I think, you know, fake it till you make it. Sometimes you do not always feel like it. You are tired. You both had a hard day at
work. You put the kids to bed. You make dinner. You are really tired, you are really exhausted, but sometimes you just need to be intimate with
your partner, for both of you. It is good for your relationship. It is good for your health.
It is like -- "Oh, yes, this is why we had a child. This is why we do - I am not saying 365 days a year, because I do not think that is realistic for
any relationship. But one time a month, you are right, Dr. Drew, that is a problem, too.
PINSKY: And I think as - Emily, you are saying the same thing Leeann is saying, right?
MORSE: I am saying that you absolutely have to prioritize your intimacy and your sex in your relationship. Because couples, everything else is
prioritized, the children, their life, their work. But what people do not realize is that when you do not prioritize intimacy, your relationship will
fall apart, because it is the glue to your relationship.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: I agree. Listen, I think that having sex in a relationship is pivotal. But 365 days, Dr. Drew, how exhausting. I mean, can she give me
some of her stamina, please?
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: To be honest, it was 28 out of 31.
PINSKY: But Kelvin, how dare these women gang up on us like this, Kelvin? How dare they?
KELVIN WASHINGTON: How dare they? Sam, Sam, I believe in you. I think you can do this.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: 365 days?
WASHINGTON: You know.
MORSE: Sam, you are .
WASHINGTON: I think you have it in you. But I will say this, Dr. Drew, as the residential man on this particular panel, right on, lady! This is -- I
am proud of her. I think -- no, but anybody who has been married or is married. They understand that you do get busy.
You know, you do put things to the back burner. It is amazing how when you were younger, you thought you know, I would never would do that. Sex is so
important. But it does happen.
I appreciate that she said while doing this, it actually helped them in other parts of their relationship or grew the intimacy not just physically,
but also between them, it better connected them. So, I appreciate that, but I figure all women watching this should go ahead and try it. Just give
it a try.
(LAUGHTER)
WASHINGTON: There is nothing wrong with trying.
PINSKY: That is right.
SCHACHER: Let us start with 30 days.
PINSKY: Emily - wants to say something there, but people do -- you and I - - Emily -- on Loveline once a week, and you and I have heard crazy stuff where people think, "Oh, a threesome is going to make this better or I will
get him a stripper." Those are horrible ideas. This is not a horrible idea.
MORSE: No, this is -- No. this is not a horrible idea. What I also want to say is, intimacy does not just mean that you are having intercourse with
your partner. It can mean that you kiss each other again before work, or before you go to sleep at night, you hold hands. You give each other
massages. It does not have to be sex. It is just -- intimacy means so many other things.
PINSKY: It is going to lead there.
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: Hopefully, it will! Hopefully, it will.
SCHACHER: Does intimacy mean cuddling on the coach watching lifetime movies? Does that count?
MORSE: You know, probably may be turn off the TV sometimes in that conversation.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Sam, come on, Sam.
SCHACHER: I am kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sam, Sam, I know you need some advice, but Emily will be available after the show.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Next up. Next up well you are going to watch the -- with Mark. That is what you are going to do.
Next up, what you are saying about this, the sex for an entire year model? Plus, the results of our poll online on our Facebook page. Back after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Can you really do it right if you are doing it every day like that? I mean doing it right takes a lot of time, efforts,
some candles, some wine. All kinds of things. Could you really -- yes, go ahead?
CHARLA MULLER: Oh, I would --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes. Go ahead.
CHARLA MULLER: I would disagree.
PINSKY: OK.
CHARLA MULLER: I mean I think that one of the things that we learned over the course of the year, and I think that that is what is reflected in 365
nights, is that real intimacy, you know, is driven by real life. And real life is not candles and wine every night. Sometimes real life is a quickie
for lack of a better word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Leeann, Kelvin, Emily. And, I like the way the husband looked at her like, "What you mean it was greater? What are
you talking about?"
SCHACHER: And, quickies are fine too, man.
PINSKY: All right. So, the question is, could you have sex with --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: How dare you.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Could you have sex with your partner every day for a year? You can take our poll on our Facebook page. We will give you the final results
during the after show on our Facebook page. Right now, almost 60 percent of you say no, you could not do this for 365 days. Sam, what else are you
getting on social media?
SCHACHER: OK, oh my Gosh. I have so many funny Facebook post and tweets. But from Janet, "After the year is up, I get the rest of the marriage off,
right?"
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: From Joy, "it would get real boring and mechanical very quickly."
PINSKY: Well, stop with that one, because Emily, that is the one a lot of people sort of came up with, how do people avoid that if they are making
the effort?
MORSE: If they are making the effort, that is great they are making the effort. There is so many different ways in you can spice up your
relationship. The problem, and one of the reasons, why people like put sex on the back burner, is because they get bored. Sex gets routine in a
relationship. So try something new, do something different. Have sex outside the bedroom. I mean there is so many different .
PINSKY: Go to Kirin Gupta is Harvard University classes on this. Kelvin, what do you say?
(LAUGHTER)
MORSE: So take some classes, do whatever you can do. People are always so surprised that it gets routine. Because it is so amazing the first six to
12 months of a relationship.
SCHACHER: Right.
MORSE: And, I think that the only one suffering, oh my god, it is not good anymore. Well, guess what, it happens to every couple and they do not like
to think that sex might take a little bit of work.
PINSKY: Kelvin.
SCHACKER: It would.
WASHINGTON: What is -- I mean you just -- you just said it. Spice it up, do something, some roll playing. You know.
TWEEDEN: Sexy lingerie.
WASHINGTON: Yes, some sexy lingerie. Maybe -- maybe for us guys we are watching the game, maybe you could click off the game --
SCHACHER: That is a foreplay.
(CROSSTALK)
WASHINGTON: You turn off the game and you say the fourth quarter is now, baby. I do not know, you do something like that. You just get it going.
I think honestly, I think this is a great idea. I think everyone should get an A for effort for just trying this.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
MORSE: Agreed.
WASHINGTON: I disagree with all the people who are saying this is boring. Just give it a shot.
PINSKY: Sam, what else you got there?
SCHACHER: OK, but Dr. Drew, first, do you come out in your scrubs and your stethoscope, does that ever happen?
MORSE: Nice.
PINSKY: Yes -- I do again, you -- Sam to the next .
(CROSSTALK)
MORSE: It is the best show, it is a pretty primitive medical practice. And, that is a really scary.
PINSKY: That is the role play.
MORSE: Whatever works?
PINSKY: But Sam, what else you got?
SCHACHER: OK, I have - from Judy, absolutely. Did so every day for many years, married 44 years.
PINSKY: Wow.
SCHACHER: And from Michai, if you eat cake every day, it is no longer dessert, it just becomes sustenance.
PINSKY: You think Michai is a male or a female, Kelvin?
WASHINGTON: Michai is a male who is not excited with his wife anymore. I think that what it is .
SCHACHER: Somebody is bitter.
MORSE: Party of one.
PINSKY: And Emily, you bear me up on this. That is a sad thing when people get to that point. They have to really pay attention, as you said
earlier, it is the glue.
MORSE: It is the glue, and if you do not have it - then you are just roommates. And people thinking that - I think the most important part of
the story, everyone is getting caught up in the 365 days.
What I really think is this is drawing attention to the fact that I think we are in crisis, a lot of marriages are in crisis sexually and they do not
want to look at it. They do not want to look at the fact.
WASHINGTON: That is a good point. Really good point.
PINSKY: That is right. To get the sign of trouble. But Leeann, you just saw your favorite tweet.
TWEEDEN: Once a day? I do it three to four times a day with my husband. Oh my gosh.
MORSE: I saw that, too.
TWEEDEN: Wow! I think you and I both giggled, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: There is some - there could be some physical trouble that comes along with that.
(CROSSTALK)
WASHINGTON: Wendy told me that as she left the room. She said, keep this in mind. I said, oh, OK. Women do need some time off. Let us just say
that.
PINSKY: There you go. And thank you, guys. DVR us any time. DVR us - and you can watch us anytime, and guess what, "Forensic Files" follows now.
END
