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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Brown's Stepdad under Investigation; Ferguson Federal Investigation Continues; Bodycams for Cops

Aired December 02, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I may or may not have sat beside Taye Diggs at the dinner.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're still talking about it every chance you get.

PEREIRA: Thanks for joining us @ THIS HOUR. I'm Michaela Pereira.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman. "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

PEREIRA: Why wouldn't I?

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. This is LEGAL VIEW.

We want to begin this hour with breaking news in Ferguson, Missouri, where a formal investigation is now underway, tied to some now well- known comments by Michael Brown's stepfather after the decision not to indict Darren Wilson was announced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: I never had to go through nothing like this. Don't none of y'all know me but I don't do nothing to nobody. Anybody say so, they're a liar. They're a damn liar. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, for real, like just a minute. You know, give her a minute.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The Ferguson police chief, Tom Jackson, says that the police have interviewed people who know this man, Lewis Head, and were with him to determine if he actually intended to start a riot. They have not yet spoken to Mr. Head, but they say they plan to. No one at this point has been charged. No one has been arrested at this time. Last night, Brown family attorney Benjamin Crump told John Berman that his clients are not concerned about any possible charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: You remember that was right after the decision was announced. It was very emotional. And it's undefensible. It is not appropriate in any way. We don't condone people acting on emotion, calling for people to do irresponsible things at all. And so we want his family, his mother and father's message to come across louder than anybody who might be associated with them or around them. They can't control what others do, they can control what they pray for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: For the LEGAL VIEW on what may or may not happen, I want to bring in CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin, as well as Dan Schorr, a former prosecutor and investigator for Kroll, a risk management company.

All right, so, to the two of you, there were rumblings at the beginning that this might be under consideration, but I think it's critical to know - Dan, and you start -- what does it mean to incite a riot? What exactly does the law dictate?

DAN SCHORR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you are encouraging people to commit unlawful acts. And there's usually a group of people that you're encouraging. On the surface, it appears like he's doing that, he's telling people to burn things, and people did do that. But the specter of the Ferguson Police prosecuting Michael Brown's stepfather is very disturbing and we have to look at the parents. Remember, the parents of Michael Brown, they were calling for peace. So they were saying very different things than you see Michael Brown's stepfather saying here.

BANFIELD: And emotions aside, don't you have to have some kind of cause and then actual effect? I mean don't they have to prove that the people he was actually saying it to went across the street and actually did set a fire somewhere?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think that's right. And I'm sure that's what's under investigation. But I agree with Dan, that this sort of specter that the prosecutor's office would prosecute this grieving stepfather, who was clearly acting emotionally and in anger, not to condone what he said, is troubling. I think at this point it smells a bit vindictive, it smells a bit like malicious prosecution, if that were the case. And I think that the police department should be investigating other things, perhaps the corruption -- alleged corruption, perhaps the alleged brutality. Some of the things that the Justice Department is looking into in terms of police practices. When you sort of pair what the Justice Department is doing and now this announcement by the police department in Missouri that they're investigating the stepfather, it just -- there's something that feels inappropriate about it. BANFIELD: But vindictive on whose part because clearly I think there will be a lot of police who are very angry about what the police have had to go through. Clearly there are a lot of people in the community who are very angry what the community's gone through. But, Dan, might there be those who said, I lost my life savings -

SCHORR: Right.

BANFIELD: I lost my business. I lost my car dealership. Why isn't anyone doing something about this?

SCHORR: Right. And that's important because people were damaged. There were innocent victims here who had nothing to do with this shooting by the - by Officer Wilson who were damaged here. So no matter who you relate it to, you can't incite a riot, you can't encourage people to burn things down. And you would think you would then face criminal prosecution. Whether or not that's done, though, is a tough decision because --

BANFIELD: Look, this man did not come there to plan and orchestrate some big riot.

SCHORR: Right.

BANFIELD: He was angry. He was upset. I think it's pretty obvious. But at the same time, is this prosecutorial discretion and wouldn't it be Robert McCulloch who ultimately would have to make that decision?

HOSTIN: And there is always prosecutorial discretion, right? I mean we know that in terms of the death of Michael Brown, the prosecutor didn't have to go to the grand jury. The prosecutor could have just charged. And certainly, in this kind of case, the prosecutor can just charge. And how will the prosecutor, given what has gone on in Ferguson, use that discretion? I, again, having been a prosecutor, Dan, you were a prosecutor, I don't know that this is the right place to go in terms of using your discretion.

BANFIELD: A sensitive issue for, I think, both.

I've got more on this topic that I want to cover with both of you. Dan Schorr, Sunny Hostin, stick around, if you would, because also breaking this hour, we're learning that volunteer union members from St. Louis area police departments have been providing personal protection for now ex-Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson. And they've been doing it since shortly after Brown's death on August the 9th. The Fraternal Order of Police Executive Director Jim Pasco (ph) tells CNN that the volunteers are providing security on their off-duty hours and will continue to do so as long as they feel it's necessary. Wilson is not paying for that service.

In the meantime, an historic speech from Attorney General Eric Holder. Both he and President Obama say they want to assure the public that the federal investigation into the death of Mike Brown is going to continue. Here's Ed Lavandera reporting from Ferguson, Missouri.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: While the grand jury proceeding in St. Louis County has concluded, I can report this evening that the Justice Department's investigation into the shooting death of Michael Brown, as well as our investigation into allegations of unconstitutional policing patterns or practices by the Ferguson Police Department, remain ongoing and remain active.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Inside the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Attorney General Eric Holder addressed the country. At times, his words stifled by the chants of protesters. The attorney general paused to ensure their voices were heard.

HOLDER: What we saw there was a genuine expression of concern and involvement. Let me be clear, I ain't mad at you, all right?

LAVANDERA: Late Monday night, the St. Louis Rams finally addressed the controversy surrounding this public show of solidarity by five of its players. Their hands up, don't shoot message, a local police association said it implied that Michael Brown was shot while attempting to surrender. The Rams' chief operating officer called the angered officers and released a statement saying, in part, "we expressed our respect for their concern surrounding the game. The Rams will continue to build on what have always been strong and valued relationships with local law enforcement and the greater St. Louis community as we come together to help heal our region."

But the Rams' spokesman followed up with CNN, making it clear they did not apologize. The NFL also isn't apologizing. Its spokesman says, "we respect and understand the concerns of all individuals who have expressed views on this tragic situation."

Back in Missouri, at the first community meeting of the Ferguson Commission, more frustration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to understand that we understand that (ph) we're getting killed out here.

LAVANDERA: For his part, President Obama followed through.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And part of the reason this time will be different is because the president of the United States is deeply invested in making sure that this time is different.

LAVANDERA: Nationwide Monday, demonstrators simply walked out.

CROWD: To walk out of school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To walk out of work.

LAVANDERA: Encouraged by the movement to flood the streets in protest.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Ferguson, Missouri.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BANFIELD: Well, the St. Louis Rams are certainly not apologizing and the NFL is not apologizing. And the five players who made their stand on the field are standing strong on social media, too. Yesterday, number 81, Kenny Britt, posted on his Instagram, quote, "stand for something," coupled with the iconic picture of American Olympic medalists Tommy Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 summer games. On Sunday, Britt posted this picture, writing, "this game was dedicated to Mike Brown, his family and the community of Ferguson. We stand with you, Mike Brown. My kids matter. Horns up." Number 13, Chris Givens, on Sunday posted the picture with the caption, "great team win," with the hash tag Michael Brown we stand for you, Rams nation. And then said, "some of y'all going to be mad for this one, but keep it to yourself." And a tweet from Stedman Bailey, number 12, yesterday, quote, "only God can judge me, not worried about nothing else."

So if Officer Darren Wilson was wearing a body camera, could you imagine how different this case might have been? Might have been different at all? The effort to get more body cameras on police across this country and what that could mean for future cases and how the president has stepped in on this one, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: There has been so much outcry, really not just about Ferguson, but about a bigger picture of police violence and racial profiling throughout the entire country. President Obama outlined several new efforts in effort to combat this just yesterday. And among them, significantly expanding funding and training for local law enforcement. And that includes a focus on body-worn cameras.

According to FBI statistics last year, there are more than 600,000 police officers in the United States. Sworn police officers. The president wants to fund up to 50,000 additional cameras for agencies. And that will cost about $75 million. I'm joined now by CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

So, Tom, the first thing I saw was this disconnect between 50,000 cameras and 600,000-plus officers across the U.S. A drop in the bucket. But would this just sort of start the momentum, get the ball rolling for agencies across the country to start realizing how important this is and to fund it themselves?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I guess so, Ashleigh. I know that when I was a street cop years ago, I would have been opposed to it and said, no, I don't want to have to wear a camera all day when I'm working. If I was on the street today, I would pay for it out of my own pocket. And I think that this would be a situation where we'll see what civil libertarians and others say down the road here when some of these images -- the more officers wear these cameras, the more people are going to see just what kind of violent behavior they go up against on a daily basis, unreasonable behavior. You know, so I think that many, many police officers will be vindicated if they can show a recording of what actually occurred that led to their use of force.

BANFIELD: So I would only assume if they make that known to the parties that they're attending to, that everybody's behavior would actually be mitigated somewhat, police officers knowing that they're under the microscope and those who they're responding to know that they're being taped as well?

FUENTES: Well, I think more so on the part of the police officers because they'll know the ramifications of bad behavior, this being recorded. But some of the people they go up against, it won't make any difference at all. You know, and police officers use expressions that some people that they go against are liquored up, drugged up or amped up, meaning just so much adrenaline and so much resistance on the part of the subject that, you know, rational discussion doesn't cut it, even if the police officer's a Harvard debater. You end up in a wrestling match on the street. I know the video of Eric Garner's been shown over and over. But he's alive today if the police officers say, you're under arrest and he does this and goes into custody.

Police officers do not have to be debaters, Olympic wrestlers or all of that. And I think that's what's escaping a lot of people's perspective on this is that we can't have officers dealing with this level of violence without recording it and let the public see.

BANFIELD: Well, it will be interesting to see how many more of those cameras end up on police officers given that this is a very small percentage right off the bat.

FUENTES: Right.

BANFIELD: Tom Fuentes, good to see you. Thank you.

FUENTES: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to move on to some other news right now. There is yet another woman accusing Bill Cosby of raping her. And you will probably recognize her. She's a self-proclaimed supermodel. Her name is Janice Dickinson. And now her story is getting very profound. She's going to tell you, in her own words, what happened. And there is a major breakdown when she speaks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Want to turn now to a developing story in downtown Detroit. Want to give you some live pictures on the left-hand side of your screen, some taped pictures on the right-hand side of your screen. It's a bit weird what's going on there, but city officials say they really don't know yet the cause of this massive power outage. It started about 90 minutes ago and it appears to affect city hall and other government buildings in Detroit and about 87 public schools as well. But school officials say they're going to deal with this by dismissing the students early. The Detroit mayor is expected to hold a news conference soon. Perhaps he'll have some more answers as to what exactly caused this outage.

And here's what's a bit scary. The Detroit fire chief is confirming that the fire department is fanned out across this outage area and they're having to rescue on unknown people - an unknown number of people who are apparently stuck in elevators because, when the power goes out, the elevators stop. People have been stuck in there for a little over an hour and a half now. So the fire department is on rescue detail now to get people out of some of those high-rises that have no power.

But it's an unusual kind of power outage. The Detroit public lighting system has been hit. Apparently 100 or so different organizations/buildings are affected by this. We'll keep you posted and let you know what we find out as soon as we do.

Meantime, Bill Cosby has decided he's going to step down from the board of trustees at his beloved alma mater Temple University. All of this in the wake of these sexual allegations that are swirling around him. This '80s and '90s sitcom star hasn't been talking about it, but he used to serve on the university's board of trustees for 32 years. He attended Temple in the '60s, but he quit to pursue his comedy career. He was awarded a bachelor's degree from that school back in 1971.

And former supermodel Janice Dickinson is opening up to CNN with some very graphic details about a night she said Bill Cosby raped her. Dickinson says Cosby assaulted her in 1982 after they had dinner together. It happened in Lake Tahoe, she said. She alleges that she said she wasn't feeling well and that he gave her a pill, gave her a glass of red wine. She said that was when she passed out and then she said she woke up the next morning with some very bad memories, very scattered memories, and a whole lot of pain as well. She said in a previous interview that the last thing she remembers was seeing Bill Cosby at the side of a bed where he was removing a robe. She said she intermittently remembered him on top of her and she's had some very painful interviews in which she has cried and said that this has been a very, very difficult part of her life, feeling right now as though she is a victim, but also that she has been vilified by the public.

Now, for Cosby's lawyer's part, he's released the following statement responding to Dickinson's accusations. And it reads in part, "Janice Dickinson's story accusing Bill Crosby of rape is a lie. There is a glaring contradiction between what she is claiming now for the first time and what she wrote in her own book and what she told the media back in 2002." Cosby's lawyers are denying Dickinson's story. They're also denying many others. There have been 17 women who have now come forward. If Bill Cosby is innocent, he certainly could take legal action. But will he do that and what would that entail? You're going to get the legal view on that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Before the break we told you about Janice Dickinson coming forward and giving an interview to CNN's Fredricka Whitfield about what she says was a sexual assault at the hands of Bill Cosby back in 1982 in Lake Tahoe. Here is a portion of the interview that Fredricka conducted and the time where Janice Dickinson broke down. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And you were telling me you're in rehab, you were so very fragile. He offered you wine. That was a no-no in your view. But now he offers you a pill and you still trust him?

JANICE DICKINSON, FORMER SUPERMODEL: It was red wine. It was a pill. And then when I started to black out, I had a Polaroid camera on me. That's when I took several photographs with the Polaroid. When - I had one of the first Polaroid cameras. And, you know, I just remembered shooting these pictures and having them on me in my room the next morning when I woke up. The last thing I remember, I was - I had blacked out and Cosby mounting me, like the monster that he was, and I was thinking, what the heck was that? And I just remember passing out. But I remember more specifically waking up and that he -- there was a lot of pain in -- downstairs. There was semen all over me and that my pajama bottoms were off and the top was opened. And I, at that point, fight or flight, I just packed up and I got the hell out of there.

WHITFIELD: What was going through your mind at that point when you, you know, came to? You had this discovery. What were you thinking and feeling at that moment?

DICKINSON: I remember being extremely angry. I had been violated. I remember feeling disgusted at him, but more importantly I was disgusted at myself. Now in retrospect, I should have done the - gone and reported it to the Nevada Police, you know, but I wasn't thinking.