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Hands Up Don't Shoot; Tennessee Bus Collision; Michigan's Football Coach Fired; America Talks Back: Climate Change

Aired December 03, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It has become a rallying cry in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting, "hands up, don't shoot." The phrase inspiring a nationwide movement of the same name earlier this week. These students at Yale joining with others across the United States, walking out of class and work to protest. In the sports world, members of the St. Louis Rams raising their arms as they ran onto the field at Sunday's game. Their actions slammed by the St. Louis County Police who said it was offensive. Even on Capitol Hill, where several members of the Congressional Black Caucus raised their hands on the House floor.

The former head of the CBC speaking to my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, about their actions and the reaction across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER (D), MISSOURI: And I think, you know, some people on the right are trying to make that into some kind of Black Panther statement, and it was not. It was a symbol of their belief that something has to be done. And, frankly, you're going to see a lot of that all around the country. The same withal the Rams. They were not saying Michael Brown was angelic. They were saying, look, there's a problem here and we need to have it addressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this gesture. L.Z. Granderson is a CNN political commentator.

Good morning, L.Z.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So, do you agree with the congressman?

GRANDERSON: Absolutely. You know, I think, from the very beginning, if you go back and look at all the media coverage, many of the people who were surrounding Michael Brown's body as it was lying on the ground weren't saying he was an angel, weren't saying he was innocent. They were saying, his hands were up. And if you go back and look at the grand jury, most of the -- most of the witnesses gave an eyewitness account of his hands being up. We have cell phone video of them saying his hands were up. But more importantly, at that time, many people, myself included, were

talking about the fact that the emotions surrounding this wasn't isolated to the Michael Brown and Officer Darren Wilson, wasn't isolated to Ferguson, but was symptomatic of a much larger issue and that is the distrust between minorities and the police force. And the hands up gesture continues reminding us of that disparity.

COSTELLO: Well, let's get back to what the congressman said. And I know what you said about the witnesses who said Michael Brown had his hands up, but there are also witnesses who didn't say that, who said there was no indication that Michael Brown had his hands up. And I want to read to you something that Rich Lowery (ph) wrote on Politico. He says, "the bitter irony of the Michael Brown case is that if he had actually put his hands up and said don't shoot, he would almost certainly be alive today. His family would have been spared unspeakable loss and Ferguson, Missouri, wouldn't have experienced multiple bouts of rioting." If Michael Brown did not have his hands up, isn't that true?

GRANDERSON: Well, I don't know. There's a video in September of a black man being pulled over by a police officer in South Carolina. And in the video, the police officer says, show me your driver's license and I.D. So the black man reaches back into his car to present the wallet with his I.D. in it and the police officer starts to yell and shoot him. And he actually shoots this man with his hands up as he's falling back. That is on video.

So I don't know what the political writer perspective of the world is. All I know is, there has been multiple evidence for many people in the minority community that sometimes crooked police officers do bad things, and they do bad things in the shadows, but the minorities who suffer from this, they see it. And because of technology, because of dashcams and hopefully because of bodycams, the larger society are beginning to see some of the things that the minority community has been experiencing by corrupt police officers, not the police department but corrupt police officers for a very long time.

COSTELLO: Well, we're at the point now though when we're actually talking about this and some plans are being put into place to try to combat the problem, right? We're talking about it. So some police officers say that protesters continuing to put their hands up, it just incites bad things when we should be talking to one another in a civil way.

GRANDERSON: Well, I think that suggesting that non-violent protesting incites violence is very short-sighted and goes against what we've seen throughout history. It is not the nonviolent protesters that causes violence, it is usually one of two things, people who are hidden within the nonviolent protesters who are causing violence and those who object to the message of those who are protesting and find no other way to engage this group but to be violent themselves. And, again, we've seen that not only in our country's history, but in global history when you look at India and the way that they reacted to Mahatma Gandhi. He was non-violent and yet he was still beaten.

This is what happens when the truth confronts people who aren't willing to deal with the truth. So instead of focusing in on whether or not non-violent protesters are inciting violence, they should be focused in on why they are protesting. And they're protesting because of incidents like what happened in South Carolina, because of what happened with --

COSTELLO: And I understand what you're saying, but also, Officer Darren Wilson has to have protection. He's receiving death threats. He can't live freely. So isn't that a problem?

GRANDERSON: Well, it's also a problem if you have a large swathe of community in the United States that felt as if they haven't been able to live freely for a very long time. Again, Ferguson is a microcosm of the problem. Look at the arrest rates. Look at the amount of times (INAUDIBLE) pulled over. Look in New York City and the evidence of stop and frisk producing like basically no contraband and yet they continue to do it. Those people are not living freely either. So I can definitely sympathize with Darren Wilson feeling as if he's being handcuffed by this incident that happened in the summer.

But keep in mind, all of this energy and emotions that you see connected to this trial, to this case, to Officer Wilson, is not solely about him. It is about decades and decades of this frustration bubbling over.

And if I could just add one more thing about living freely, you know, George Zimmerman is alive today. You know, so -- I -- he also was the target of multiple death threats and was also the target of a lot of violence. And I haven't seen a single report in which he actually has been attacked and as I said today, he is still alive. And so I don't want to dismiss Officer Wilson's concern, but I haven't seen a report in which people have actually retaliated against the men and women who have committed these atrocities against unarmed people.

COSTELLO: L.Z. Granderson, thanks for the conversation. I appreciate it.

GRANDERSON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Checking other top stories for you this morning.

Is a woman detained in Lebanon the wife of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi or not? Iraq says no. Regional sources close to the capture initially told CNN that Lebanese forces arrested the ISIS leader's wife. But some U.S. officials believe it was actually his ex-wife, at least one of them.

A Staten Island, New York, grand jury is expected to decide today whether to indict a white police officer in the choke hold death of a black man. Eric Garner died in the July confrontation. The medical examiner ruled it a homicide. Protests have been peaceful. New York Police say they are prepared to keep the peace no matter what decision the grand jury makes.

A tragic story out of Knoxville, Tennessee, to tell you about this morning. Two school buses carrying kindergartners through third graders collided. The impact flipping one bus on its side. Two children and an adult were killed. CNN's Martin Savidge is following that story for you.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Carol.

This really is one that just makes you wonder, how could it happen? One school bus having an accident, we know it does happen. But one school bus running into another, the NTSB is now part of the investigation to figure out just what went so terribly wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): The images are horrifying. Two buses, full of elementary good students, colliding on a Tennessee highway, one rolling over, left mangled on its side, the other completely caved in from the front.

CHIEF DAVID RAUSCH, KNOXVILLE POLICE: It's a horrible tragedy. You know, our hearts go out to these families who have lost loved ones.

SAVIDGE: Police say bus 44 was traveling east taking children home from school when, for some unknown reason, it made a sharp left turn, crossed the median and slammed into the other bus, traveling west. The impact flipping bus 57 on its side, sending it sliding down the highway. Two young girls and one female adult aide on the bus were killed. Parents and relatives, feeling helpless.

GLORIA JOHNSON, GRANDSON ON BUS: I've -- I've been sick worrying about those little kids being hurt bad.

SAVIDGE: One of the bus drivers and at least 22 more children were treated for injuries.

RAUSCH: And we just ask the community to pray for the loss of lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: There are two schools that have been impacted by this, Carol, and classes there have been canceled today, but counselors have been brought in to help anyone in the student body or on staff that may be troubled by, of course, this terrible, terrible accident.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Martin Savidge reporting live for us this morning, thanks so much.

SAVIDGE: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Sadly, it is that time of year losing college football coaches get the ax and the biggest to fall so far is Brady Hoke. Michigan fired Hoke after a disappointing 5-7 season for the once- dominant program. But there was -- was there more to Hoke's firing than just losses? Back on September 27th, Hoke kept his quarterback, Shane Morris, in the game against Minnesota after a particularly hard hit. At his press conference the following Monday, Hoke said Morris did not suffer a concussion. Then, in a classic middle of the night statement dump, the Michigan athletic director David Brandon said Morris did indeed suffer a mild concussion and mistakes were made, and possibly shouldn't have been allowed to play anymore in that game.

CNN sports anchor Rachel Nichols joins me now to talk about this. And before we get into the concussion controversy, what happened to Michigan? Once mighty Michigan? It's just sad.

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN HOST, "UNGUARDED": Yes, there's no doubt, and I do want to say about this concussion issue and Brady Hoke that Brady Hoke was fired because he lost football games. Look, the concussion issue certainly added to a feeling of distrust around the program this season, but that is not why Brady Hoke was fired. Brady Hoke was fired because his win total went down every season, and that is not the direction that you want to go. And it also had an impact in the attendance. Michigan's last football game, and this goes to how bad the program has fallen, worst attendance in nearly 20 years.

Now when you --

COSTELLO: Michigan prided itself on the attracting --

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: Now, when you bite into the university's cash cow like that, you're losing your job, that's what's going on. And they haven't been good for such a long time.

COSTELLO: I just think the whole -- used to be the Big Ten when I was growing up and Michigan and Ohio State were the great rivalry, and now it seems nobody really cares. Which is a sad thing.

NICHOLS: Yes, well, I will say -- you don't want to tell that to people in Columbus, Ohio. I don't know how far you grew up from there, but you should take a look at this picture. These blankets are what they were putting on babies the morning of the Michigan game. So they're still into it there. They were indoctrinating those newborns whether they like it or not.

COSTELLO: But it's not as much fun as Michigan State, Rachel.

NICHOLS: There is no question. The fact that Ohio State won 10 of the last 11 of those games, certainly people around the country are not going to pay as much attention, and the Big Ten in general has slipped so much that people now look the at the SEC. The Iron Bowl is the great rivalry: Auburn- Alabama. Things have changed.

COSTELLO: Changed big time.

Let's go back to the concussion for just a second. I know that Coach Hoke didn't know that his quarterback had suffered a concussion because there was some miscommunication on the sidelines, but still he took the blame because he is the coach, right? He has to know these things. And the kid took a hard hit, right? (CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So, but you say that Hoke didn't get fired because of that; he got fired because he was losing, which I find sad. Shouldn't that enter into the picture somehow?

NICHOLS: I think that they looked at taking a little bit more serious look at their doctor's communication with coaches on the sideline. And maybe when the athletic director got fired, by the way, last month, that may have played into it a little bit more. But with the coach, it really just comes down to the win/loss category. And that's a lot of time what football is about. And the fact that, yes, concussions have not taken the stage as much when we look at the pro level. We've had all sorts of incidents that we've seen and all sorts of post-concussion syndromes when you look at players who've retired. And yet what does it come down to when we get out on the field every Sunday? Wins and losses.

COSTELLO: That's right. Rachel Nichols, many thanks. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, America talks back about climate change. Are you a believer? A naysayer? The founder of Divest Harvard says you better believe it because climate change is real, and she says money talks when it comes to reducing carbon emissions.

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CHLOE MAXMIN, HARVARD STUDENT/CO-FOUNDER DIVESTHARVARD: So people around this world who have things that they love and things that they care about and the sad truth is that climate change threatens all of those things. The effects of the fossil fuel economy on communities today, the destructiveness warrants a rethinking of where we get our energy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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COSTELLO: I'm rolling out a new segment this morning; it's called America Talks Back. I'll be introducing you to someone who is trying to make a difference, then I'll add my two cents. The goal is simple: I want us to talk. We might not agree, but that's OK by me.

Today's topic is climate change. Yes, I hear you. You don't believe in it, like it's some kind of religion. Well, it is, but it has little to do with God and everything to do with the color green, and I ain't talking about grass.

According to opensecrets.org, companies with interests in oil and gas contributed more than $70 million to federal candidates in the 2012 cycle. That's more than double the total from 2010. Now, if you're a politician, that sure makes it easy to ignore all those scientists who've determined climate change is real and caused in part by fossil fuels. So how do you fight that? Well, if you're Chloe Maxmin, you co-found

Divest Harvard. Maxmin's figures if Harvard sheds its fossil fuels stocks from its investment portfolios, it would send a strong message to politicians and the industry. Here's Chloe in her own words.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAXMIN: There are so many people around this world who have things that they love and things that they care about, and the sad truth is that climate change threatens all of those things. Divest Harvard is a campaign I co-founded at Harvard. We're trying to get our endowment, which is $36.4 billion, to divest from fossil fuel companies.

COSTELLO: Wow. That's an insane amount of money.

MAXMIN: It is. It's the largest endowment in the world. But, you know, we think Harvard is not a corporation and that profits shouldn't be our main motivator. Our main motivator should be about the students. And how can we invest in fossil fuel companies that are threatening our futures? It's an immoral bet against my generation.

COSTELLO: Have you met with any of the higher ups at Harvard?

MAXMIN: We have. When the students meet with Faust, our meetings are off the record and we have no way of telling people what we hear in these private meetings. But we need to because these arguments make no sense. They're absolutely inconsistent and illogical.

One of our trustees, a wealthy white man, told us climate change affects him because he needs to install a $50,000 bulwark on his summer home in Canada. And then we had another trustee tell us that we should, quote, "thank B.P.", end quote, for developing renewable energy rather than divesting.

I think if you look at the effects of the fossil fuel economy on communities today, the destructiveness warrants a rethinking of where we get our energy. It's not one day we turn off the switch on fossil fuels and then, bam, we have renewable energy economy. This is a process. We're trying to show how the fossil fuel industry has spread climate denial throughout our society and spread all this confusion about whether climate change is real or not. But climate change is real and it is caused by humans and we need to do something about it.

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COSTELLO: I did reach out to Harvard's president and she's not talking, at least to me. But she did write a letter to the Harvard community. Dr. Faust said divestment is likely to have a negligible financial impact on the affected companies. And she added you have a stronger voice if you're invested in the fossil fuel industry.

If you want to read more, I have an op-ed on CNN.com. You can go to cnn.com/oped, or you can post a comment on my Facebook page, facebook.com/carolcnn. And, again, I just want to, like, create conversation and I want to hear what you think and I appreciate your comments.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

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