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Michael Brown's Stepdad Issued Statement Apologizing for Outburst; Charles Barkley's Talking about Ferguson; Suzan Johnson Cook on Healing after Ferguson; Takata Refusing to Do National Recall of Faulty Airbags

Aired December 03, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA GREAT: We have a racial issue in this country.

COSTELLO: Charles Barkley one on one and unleashed.

BARKELY: There's some black people out there who are crooks.

COSTELLO: Ferguson, race, and solutions.

BARKLEY: We need some strong black men in St. Louis to stand up.

CROWD: (CHANTING)

COSTELLO: Riot watch. New fallout and new questions this is morning. Did Michael Brown's stepfather cause a riot with his words?

And hands up.

CROWD: Hands up! Hands up!

COSTELLO: A phrase, a call, a symbol. How a silent gesture has said more than any words possibly could. This morning we asked this -- Does it further the movement or incite violence?

Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO (on camera): And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The stepfather of Michael Brown says the last thing he wanted to see was Ferguson go up in flames and this morning CNN has learned Louis Head is not expected to face charges for his outbursts moments after a grand jury decided not to indict Officer Darren Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CROWD: Burn this down. (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Head is in the white and green t-shirt. His outburst led to an investigation from both the Ferguson police and the St. Louis County police department. I want to start with Don Lemon. You talked to Louis Head this morning. What did he tell you?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I spoke to him just a few minutes ago, and obviously he's concerned about what happened, concerned about, you know, possibly people thinking that he started riots and he released a statement. I'll tell you what more he said to me on the phone but let's read the statement first, Carol. He said "Something came over me as I watched and listened to my wife, the mother of Michael Brown Jr. react to the gut wrenching news that the cop who killed her son wouldn't be charged with the crime. My emotions immediately got the best of me, this is my family. I was so angry and full of raw emotions as so many others were and granted I screamed out words that I shouldn't have, screamed in the heat of the moment.

I was wrong and I humbly apologize to all those who read my pain and anger as a true desire for what I want for our community. It wasn't. But to place blame solely on me for the conditions of our community and country after the grand jury decision goes way far and goes way too far and is as wrong as the decision itself. To declare the state of emergency and to send a message of war and not peace before a grand jury decision was announced is also wrong." He says "In the end," and I think this is important, "I've lived in this community for a long time. The last thing I really wanted was to see it go up in flames in spite of my frustration. It really hurt to see that. Now it's time to rebuild. If we are to honor Michael Brown's memory, we need to work together to make rebuilding happen. I plan to remain here and do my part in earnest and in truth, Louis Head."

So, earlier, when I spoke to Head - spoke to him because he wasn't awake yet. I got it from a source close to the family. And people have been asking "He didn't write this, someone helped him." Well, of course if you're in this type of - if you're being faced with these sorts of allegations I would get an expert.

COSTELLO: For inciting a riot, right.

LEMON: Right. You would get someone to help you. So I'm sure he had someone help him write this, which I don't think is out of the ordinary. What he said was reprehensible, no one condones that, but I think anyone in everyone's estimation it's good that he has come out at least to say something.

COSTELLO: But he - in that that statement he found excuses for it, right?

LEMON: Yes. Yes. When he says ...

COSTELLO: And maybe that wasn't the right avenue to take at this juncture. LEMON: The part where you said "But to place the blame solely on me

for the conditions of our community," yeah.

COSTELLO: Yeah. So, did he say anything else on the phone or was he too nervous to comment about - you know, about it?

LEMON: No, he is -- I think -- it's what Jeffrey Toobin says and Jeffrey, you know, I thought, this was just this, a very poignant remark. He said "These are ordinary people who are put in extraordinary circumstances." I'm not making excuses for the man. I'm not sure how I would react if the attention of the world was on me. Again, what he did was reprehensible, what he said was reprehensible, but, you know, these are just ordinary people who are not used to dealing with the media.

COSTELLO: Don Lemon, many thanks, I appreciate it. So, let's talk about the investigation itself. I'm joined now by justice reporter Evan Perez. He'd been talking to police authorities this morning. Will they charge Mr. Head with inciting violence?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, they just don't see a case here to be made. Look, you know, that video, it looks pretty - it looks pretty stark, but, you know, it's very - it's not clear how many people actually heard Louis Head as he was screaming this stuff and certainly that video didn't really even surface until a few days afterwards and, you know, if you're going to charge him for inciting to riot, why not - why stop there? Why perhaps come after CNN or any other media organization that has reported on it? So that's the issue here and, you know, people look at this -- at the comments that were made by Tom Jackson, the police chief down there, who's the one that brought up this idea of an investigation and they don't think it's very helpful because, you know, this is a community still trying to heal from all of this and he seems to be trying to inflame things with this latest comment.

COSTELLO: So the police chief in Ferguson, he initially said this on another network that, you know, they were thinking about charging Mr. Head and your sources said they just wish this Ferguson police chief would shut up. Why doesn't he?

PEREZ: You know, Carol, I mean I think it kind of goes back to what Don just said which is, you know, that this is a small town police department, a small town police chief and, you know, normally they don't get this kind of attention and he's sort of stepped in it a few times, in some of these national media interviews and, you know, for a few weeks ago he said that Darren Wilson would be welcomed back to the police department if he got cleared by the grand jury. So, you know, it's sort of part and parcel of what this police chief has been doing. There's been an effort to try to get him out of there to help reform the police department and that effort continues, I'm told. So we'll see where it goes.

COSTELLO: All right, Evan Perez reporting live for us from Washington. Thanks so much.

Let's talk about Charles Barkley now. (INAUDIBLE) "scumbags," that's what the former hall of famer calls looters in Ferguson who burned buildings after the grand jury decision and he is sticking to that comment. Plus, he says it's ridiculous to think white cops are out there killing black people on purpose. Barkley first opened up in a radio interview and last night he sat down with Brooke Baldwin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's just begin with the news of the day, that Michael Brown's stepdad is being investigated for saying eight different times "burn this B down" the night the grand jury decision was made public.

LOUIS HEAD: Burn this (INAUDIBLE) down! Burn this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down!

BALDWIN: He's being investigated for inciting a riot. Do you think that is fair? Should police be pursuing that?

CHARLES BERKLEY, NBA HALL OF FAMER: No. I think under the circumstances, and this has just been an awful incident for everybody, and I just think that just clouds the discussion. You know, one - this entire situation, it's just so much noise going on you never get to the crux of the issue you need to be discussing. So, no, I don't think they should pursue charges against him.

BALDWIN: What about all the walkouts and all the protests and you've definitely caught some, you know ...

BERKLEY: Yeah.

BALDWIN: Slack from colleagues, from people ...

BERKLEY: Why I'm getting slack. I don't do social media.

BALDWIN: I know you don't.

BERKLEY: And I don't sit around and watch what everybody think about me. I have ...

BALDWIN: The scumbag comment.

BERKLEY: Yeah.

BALDWIN: Respond to that.

BERKLEY: Yeah, when you're looting people's property, that's what you are. That's against the law. It's not your property. You wouldn't want people to do it to your house. You know, and if you go back to the stepdad, he don't - he wanted people to burn down his house so it's all just a bunch of noise at this point. But anybody who walks out peacefully who protests peacefully, that's what this country was built on. I have no problem with that whatsoever. But to be burning people's property, burning police cars, looting people's stores, that's 100 percent ridiculous.

BALDWIN: Do you think that we would be seeing all of that had this been a black police officer? Had Darren Wilson been black and all the facts remaining the same we would still have a slain 18-year-old, would the outrage be there?

BERKLEY: No, because we have a racial issue in this country. We've always had a racial issue in this country. And the biggest problem with it is we never discuss race until something bad happens. We never have meaningful dialogue over a cold beer when things are going good. But what happens is everybody -- when something bad happens, everybody has a tribe mentality. Everybody want to protect their own tribe, whether they're right or wrong.

BALDWIN: What do you mean when they're right or wrong?

BERKLEY: We all got bad characters in our group. We all got bad characters. So, my grandmother taught me you judge everybody on their own individual merits. You don't care what any other jackass has to say. You don't put everybody together. Black is not always right and white is not always wrong. You have got some bad apples who taking advantage of the situation. That's the point. You've got - and that's unfortunate. Because this is a serious -- somebody lost a child and this is something we need to sit back and discuss and figure out what happened, what went wrong. But let me say this, the notion that white cops are out there just killing black people, that's ridiculous. That's just flat out ridiculous. And I challenge any black person to try to make that point. This notion that cops -- cops are actually awesome. They're the only thing in the ghetto from -- between this place being the Wild, Wild West. So this notion that cops are out there just killing black men, it's ridiculous and I hate that narrative coming out of this entire situation.

And the thing that bothers me the most, Brooke, is the notion that all these people are standing here saying if they indict him they were already going to riot.

BALDWIN: No matter if there was an indictment or not?

BERKLEY: No question. Because your mind does not go from let me sit here and listen and let me go and just start burning up police cars and tearing down buildings. That just doesn't happen.

BALDWIN: You know, I'm hearing so much from different people, friends, people who come on my show, African-Americans saying, listen, Brooke, you know, I was taught as a young age, I have different rules than you do when I'll deal with police. And there is a lot of - there is a lot of getting that off people's chest right now because of what happened in Ferguson, there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of frustration. What can we as a country do with that - this energy right now?

BERKLEY: Well, first of all, we can open a dialogue and I think that's probably what I was trying - what I did was open a dialogue. Brooke, in fairness, there's some black people out there who are crooks. And when the police come to your neighborhood, it's a tense situation. The only time you interact with the cops is when things are going wrong. That's the only time we ever interact with the cops. But first of all, we as black people, we've got a lot of crooks. We can't just wait until something like this happens. We have to look at ourself in the mirror. There's a reason they racially profile us at times. Sometimes it's wrong, but sometimes it's right. So to act and sit there and act like we hold no responsibility for some of this stuff, that's disingenuous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Interesting, right? Let's talk about this with Reverend Suzan Johnson Cook, she's a community leader and the CEO of the Pro- voice movement. I'm so glad you're back with me.

REV. SUZAN JOHNSON COOK, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR INT. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: And I'm just glad to be back again.

COSTELLO: Here's such a wise voice. So, I want to start with this, and it's a tough question. Charles Barkley said black people can't disagree. Can't disagree and if you do disagree you're an Uncle Tom. Is he right?

JOHNSON COOK: Let me just say this, I'm not only a community leader, but you know, also, an ambassador for international religious freedom, former ambassador. And I saw a lot of things around the world that were not as bad as what I just heard. You know, I think we have to look at a whole lot of things. I think that we're not a monolithic people, we're a culture as many others are cultures. And so, we have good, we have bad, we have every range within them. What I don't like is when we have language that incites more violence. I mean there are ways that we can go about being role models without name calling. And I think ...

COSTELLO: Is that what Charles Barkley did, do you think?

JOHNSON COOK: I think he very clearly name called. I mean he started out in one of his interviews calling certain people scumbags. I don't ...

COSTELLO: People who looted stores are scumbags.

JOHNSON COOK: But I don't condone violence or I don't condone looting, but, you know, we don't help it get any better by name calling. And no other culture does that to each other. So I think what we need to do is look at number one, Charles Barkley and myself are role models and we - all the people who paid for his games and made him the star that he is, some of those are part of the people that he's talking about. But it's the good points that he did make is that not all police are bad and we have to make sure that we begin to look at policing when it's not just the crisis. And that's what community policing is.

COSTELLO: Yeah, because one of his points was to say that there's this narrative now that police set out to kill young black men. That's -- and then he says that's the wrong narrative. I mean, I don't necessarily agree with him that that narrative is out there, but he says it is.

JOHNSON COOK: But one of the narratives that he did say is that race needs to be discussed in America, which is a point I've made with you before, and we don't discuss race until there's a crisis. And I think what we need to look at these models that have worked with community policing or with other times that it has been a non-confrontational time. When Lee Brown was commissioner of the New York City Police Department, 52,000 police officers, he introduced community policing. Others got credit for it, Giuliani talked about it, but it really did work. And the idea is that you have to have people in the community who are represented on the police force because that's where community relations began. And so you begin to look at the bad situations, you look at the good situations, but you also make sure that there's a reflection of that community on all the forces of leadership.

COSTELLO: And every police officer I've talked to said community policing is absolutely effective.

JOHNSON COOK: It works. Yes.

COSTELLO: I want to go back to something else that Charles Barkley said. He said sometimes it's right to racially profile. Is it?

JOHNSON COOK: No. I don't think it's ever right to racially profile. I think what you have to do is have systems in place, and that's what community affairs is about in terms of how do you cooperate with law enforcement. There have to be rules of law that people live by and that people have to abide by. So, you have to say how do you begin to work with the police? How do you begin to work with law enforcement so that you don't end up being a statistic in the jails that are also built for us? And that takes long-term strategic planning.

What we don't do is long term strategic plan in America. We respond to crises. So everyone now is calling together all these groups to respond to what happened in Ferguson. That was just the trigger of what's happening in America. And that's why you see people marching from California to Atlanta to New York to Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, because it's explosive now. People have not had a chance to talk about it.

COSTELLO: Let me go back to what you originally said. Because I keep thinking about this. That you said what Charles Barkley said would incite things.

JOHNSON COOK: Yeah, I mean name calling is inciteful and that just adds to more violence. I think as leaders we have the right to help bring the violence under control. We have the right, we have the responsibility ....

COSTELLO: But doesn't Charles Barkley have the right to call out people who burn down businesses? Innocent business owners?

JOHNSON COOK: He doesn't have the right to name call because that's not what leaders do. Leaders find ways to say, OK, this is wrong and how do we prevent it from happening again? And, yes, those have a responsibility who looted, who destroyed people's businesses who worked all their lives, yeah, they are accountable, but name calling isn't going to improve the situation whatsoever. COSTELLO: OK, so just to finish this off because we had a great

conversation on Thanksgiving Day. I clearly remember it and there has to be some endgame. You know, we have all these protests going on. The president called together civil rights leaders and police and community leaders and we have that. So what's the end game here?

JOHNSON COOK: The end game is we need to call together the people who have a model that have worked. Call Lee Brown out of retirement. He's been the mayor of Houston, he was the police commissioner for New York City Police Department. L.C. Scott, who was the deputy for training of the police officers because there's training on both sides, it's with the community and it's with officers about sensitivity. And bring together the team where it's worked and let's begin the conversation about how do we go forward? I will be part of that conversation as well as a chaplain for the New York City Police Department.

COSTELLO: I think that - I think that Chief Brown should come on, don't you?

JOHNSON COOK: I think so, too, and I would be happy to work with him and work with you and CNN to make that happen.

COSTELLO: I love that about you. Reverend Suzan Johnson Cook, thank you so much for being with me again.

JOHNSON COOK: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a showdown is brewing on Capitol Hill today after embattled airbag maker Takata ignores demands for a nationwide recall. Up next, why the supplier could get slapped with a $35 million fine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Right now, representatives from the embattled airbag maker Takata are facing off against lawmakers on Capitol Hill. You see it here. Just hours after ignoring demands to issue a nationwide recall, Takata officials are expected to once again apologize to victims' families. Now, those faulty air bags, which can explode and send metal shrapnel flying towards drivers have been linked to at least four deaths in the United States. At least nine people have been injured. So, let's bring in CNN's government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh. So, Takata doesn't want to be in charge of the recall?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're not going along with this nationwide recall. They are putting that decision on the automakers. So, they're saying it's for the automakers to decide whether they will issue this nationwide recall, Carol. What they say they will do, they will do an independent audit of their manufacturing process. They say that they'll work with engineers to pinpoint what's causing the ruptures, and they also say, they'll ramp up production of repair kits for the eight million vehicles already recalled here in the United States but, again, stopping short of saying that they will yield to what U.S. safety regulators are asking them to do, which is essentially to have this nationwide recall throughout the country for vehicles that are affected.

This is essentially turning out to be a standoff with the National Highway Safety Administration. They are saying that Takata's inaction is disappointing and it puts drivers at risk. Takata was faced with a midnight deadline to comply and agreed to repair tens of millions of additional cars nationwide and one car safety group says that could have been anywhere between 20 to 25 million additional cars, but as we see here, the company is not taking that stance. They say that they don't feel it's necessary to go beyond the hot and humid areas. I'm sure that that will be one of the main questions asked of the Takata representatives in this hearing that's happening right now, Carol.

That question being why will they not go along with this nationwide recall?

COSTELLO: OK, I'll take it back too. And I know you are monitoring that hearing. Rene Marsh reporting live from Washington.

My next guest says Takata's faulty airbags are to blame for the death of her sister, Charlene Weaver. Weaver was the passenger in a deadly car accident back in 2004. Her sister Kim Kopf joins us now. Kim, thank you so much for being with me.

KIM KOPF, CLAIMS SISTER WAS KILLED BY FAULTY AIRBAGS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Tell us why you believe these faulty airbags are to blame for your sister's death.

KOPF: From the minute the neurosurgeon came out of the operating room of my sister that night of the accident, she kept asking my parents, you know, "What happened? What hit her? Something hit her with such significant force to cause such damage that something happened." And so then after we lost her we've just always felt from that point forward that it has been the airbag, that's what killed her.

COSTELLO: So, say, you just heard Takata doesn't want to extend this recall nationwide. What are your thoughts?

KOPF: I think it's wrong. I'm sure -- I don't know if they're trying to pass the blame on to somebody else, the car manufacturers, but I think it's wrong. They need to do the national recall. They need to include passengers, also. They're affecting people's lives here. It is literally a matter of life and death and they need to be pro-active in this.

COSTELLO: So, when Takata executives sit on Capitol Hill and apologize to families like yours, it must infuriate you?

KOPF: Listening to the hearing a couple of weeks ago, it was very frustrating. They would not answer very pointed, direct questions. A term one of them used was for the airbags malfunctioning as an anomaly. Which I took great offense to. It's not - you know, our family members are not anomalies. These are people. They have lives. They have family who care about them, and to just - you know, label it as an anomaly and not be warranted to investigate any further was - it was very frustrating.

COSTELLO: Are you planning any legal action?

KOPF: We are looking into different options, still trying to connect a few dots and we'll see what my mom and I -- it's pretty much up to my mother. I'll support her decision and what she does but, you know, we'll see what happens.

COSTELLO: You've got to fight back some way. Kim Kopf, thank you so much for being with me today. I appreciate it. Thank you.

KOPF: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, protecting Officer Darren Wilson. It turns out his brothers in blue have been keeping the former Ferguson police officer safe. We'll tell you more about his around-the-clock protection.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello, thank you so much for joining me. In the nearly four months since Officer Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown, the former Ferguson police officer has stayed largely out of sight. His outrage over the incident has prompted some to make threats against his life. Now we're learning that some of Wilson's former colleagues from Ferguson and beyond are stepping up to keep him and his family safe. CNN's Brian Todd has their story. He joins us now live from Washington. Good morning.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We've got new information on the unusual level of security being provided to Darren Wilson. He's got a detail of off duty police officers guarding him. But even with that, the threats to Wilson don't seem to be subsiding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: He's been threatened over the phone, in e-mails, on social media. Apparently there are bounties on his head. Now CNN has learned Darren Wilson is protected by a detail of off duty police officers who have been by his side since the August shooting of Michael Brown.

JIM PASCO, EXEC., DIR. NATIONAL FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Fraternal order of police members from the surrounding area volunteered and have provided him with security from that time right up until the present.

(on camera): How long will you be doing this?

PASCO: We'll do it as long as we have to.

TODD (voice over): Fraternal order of police director Jim Pasco says the off duty officers are not being paid by Wilson or anyone else to protect him. Pasco would not elaborate on the nature of the protection. It's likely very discreet.

RON HOSKO, LAW ENFORCEMENT LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: A low key protection, not a mark unit, in front of the house that draws as much attention as it may divert. Maybe one person, maybe two people. So that Officer Wilson, former officer Wilson, can sleep at night.

TODD: Wilson's lawyers say it's not just Darren Wilson these officers are protecting.

GREG KLOEPPEL, ATTORNEY FOR DARREN WILSON: There are threats out there not only against himself but his family as well.

TODD: Including Wilson's new wife who is pregnant and on leave from the Ferguson police. One concern the attorneys and law enforcement experts have, efforts by hackers and others to track Darren Wilson down.