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Rolling Stone Apology; Protests Over Garner; Garner's Daughter Comments; Demonstrations in Phoenix

Aired December 05, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wow, what a development here in this "Rolling Stone" magazine story. They are now apologizing for its major spotlight piece here on alleged rapes and sex assaults at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. This piece entitled "A Rape On Campus" described in graphic, graphic detail this fraternity house gang rape and the alleged victim here a woman in this article they called "Jackie." And it took the university to task for failing to respond to this alleged sex assault.

Now, let's be clear, "Rolling Stone" never talked to any of these men "Jackie" named as her attackers and this hour "Rolling Stone" has put this apology on its website. It's multiple paragraphs here. Let me just read part of it for you.

The final graph (ph) reads this way. "In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced." It goes on. "We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. Finally, we are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by this story."

Huge, potential fallout here for the university and also for women at that campus. Let me bring in Sara Ganim. She's been all over this for us, our investigative correspondent, and also Brian Stelter, CNN's senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources."

And, you know, in reading initially when this came down minutes ago, I thought, OK, the, you know, the magazine's apologizing because a number of major papers have begun to question the validity of the piece. But that final graph where they talk about discrepancies in Jackie's story, and we know what some of the discrepancies are.

SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: We know what those discrepancies are, Brooke. I just got off the phone with the attorney - attorney for the local chapter of Phi Capa Phi (ph), which was the fraternity where Jackie, in the article, described the horrific assault as is detailed in this story.

Now, he had a couple of very key points. He said, one, they went through e-mail records and inner fraternity council records, there's a council at the school that regulates Greek life, no party that night. The night that she describes that she was brutally raped by seven men, there was no party at that frat, according to the lawyer.

BALDWIN: Wow.

GANIM: The other thing, the guy that she says orchestrated the whole thing, brought her to the party, lured her into the room, he was not a member of the fraternity. They've identified him. Not a member.

There was no side staircase, which was a big detail, described in detail -

BALDWIN: Yes.

GANIM: How she was led up the staircase to the room where she was attacked. How she has dreams and flashbacks of that staircase. No back staircase at this fraternity according to the lawyer. No pledges that time of year. And he goes on, no members that had nicknames, the nicknames that she described in the story. Nobody existed at that frat with those nicknames.

Now, the final thing I just want to tell you, we know, he said this to me. He said, they've spent $20,000 in the last couple of days protecting the house. It's been vandalized. Putting security, putting cameras up. He said, finally, he said, you know what, it's not part of our culture, it simply is just not true.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That may be one other piece of this, though, which is the other thing we've learned in the last half hour is that "The Washington Post" has now interviewed Jackie, the woman at the center of this story. The first time that this woman's been interviewed since "Rolling Stone" article came out. And she is standing by her story. So there's such a discrepancy now between her standing by her story and what you're hearing from the attorney.

GANIM: And I have to add to that, too. I was on campus earlier this week and I talked to many of Jackie's friends and other survivors who know Jackie. And when I asked them privately, I said, you know, there have been some questions about the validity of this reporting.

BALDWIN: Right.

GANIM: And it's such an outrageous attack. They said two things that I thought really stood out to me. One is, they believe Jackie. They know Jackie. They believed her story. But they also said this. They said, it was such a horrific attack, detailed in such a way that they were afraid that rape would become defined by this brutal gang rape. So basically, if you're a woman and you've been assaulted on campus, it wasn't legitimate unless you were assaulted by a member of Greek life (ph). And that was a concern for them. This was a really horrific -

BALDWIN: That's ridiculous, by the way.

GANIM: Yes, it is. It is. Absolutely.

BALDWIN: And I think a huge part of this story, just as a woman in reading all this, is for all of the women in the future from this day forward who are, you know, sexually assaulted and raped, will it be taken as seriously as it should be? It fires me up. So that's one thing.

But back to you, Stelter. When we - when we - you know, I take a deep breath as a journalist on this story because "Rolling Stone" is a phenomenal, phenomenal magazine.

STELTER: Yes. They do a lot of great work.

BALDWIN: Wonderful work. And it's -- it's either, you know, the journalists who wrote the piece and how they defend, you know, wanting to be gentle and sensitive to this alleged victim and presuming that they're trying to talk to the alleged attackers -

STELTER: Right.

BALDWIN: And, two, that we all read it and ingested it and didn't question it as much.

STELTER: We're seeing some of this with Cosby's accusers as well. There has been an evolution over the years, over the decades, in how the victims of alleged sexual assault are treated by the media. I would say we've moved in a much better direction.

BALDWIN: Sure.

STELTER: We take these claims more seriously and we report on them more thoroughly. But in this case, "Rolling Stone" was asked by Jackie not to contact the alleged attackers and they now say they regret that decision, that they agreed not to contact them. And there's a point in every story where you have to call the person that might ruin your story, might turn out, tell your story's wrong, turn your story obsolete, but you still have to make that call.

BALDWIN: You need the full picture.

STELTER: And that's where this focus now is on the journalistic question, why didn't "Rolling Stone" go ahead and make those calls, check with the alleged attackers, hear their side of the story. They could have still published a version of the story with Jackie's voice, but the fact that they didn't reach out to the alleged attackers made all the difference here.

GANIM: Their statement, Brian, actually even says that they - they did reach out in some way to the local branch, to the national branch. And this really struck me, Brooke, is they said, this is "Rolling Stone," part of their statement, that the local branch and the national leadership responded that they couldn't confirm or deny her story, Jackie's story, but had concerns about the evidence. And that's where then they didn't take that extra step.

STELTER: Right. Right. And, by the way, we should note, the best research on this topic show that 90 to 98 percent of rape or sexual assault claims are accurate, are correct, are not made up.

BALDWIN: Yes. STELTER: There might be 2 to 10 percent that may not be accurate, but the vast majority are accurate. And we can't let that get lost in the coverage of this case.

BALDWIN: We cannot. We cannot. We cannot. You have a huge story then coming up here on Sunday, "Reliable Sources." Mr. Stelter, thank you so much.

If you two hear anything more, if you talk more to this attorney or any of the other players in this story, let's bring you guys both back on the TV. But I appreciate both of you. Sara Ganim and Brian Stelter with that.

And, just a quick note for all of you, I'll speak live with Catherine Valentine (ph), a University of Virginia student who interviewed the dean in an explosive interview. So we'll have that for you.

But first, you just saw the pictures. The protests erupting across America. Many, many New Yorkers say what they have seen so far in the wake of Eric Garner's case has been unlike anything the city has seen in generations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: (INAUDIBLE). Show me what democracy looks like. We can't breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The mass of humanity out Thursday night took over major roads, blocked traffic amid the chants, the songs, the calls for justice. I can attest. I was in the thick of it for seven hours with hundreds and hundreds of people here in Manhattan.

And, listen, this story isn't just a New York story. This is a Dallas story. It's a Chicago story. Boston, Orlando, so many other cities. I was walking -- we walked at least with a number of people eight miles, the length of the Brooklyn Bridge here, with all these protesters of different socioeconomic, ethnic backgrounds, ages. And there's a moment here, you're looking at it. This was the moment that just really makes you stop and think and it was incredibly poignant, cardboard caskets and silence. It was the silence of the moment that spoke volumes. We'll play that for you coming up.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was in the middle of Atlantic Avenue there. You could see the Barkley (ph) Center and hundreds of people on the ground. All of this to express the frustration after the grand jury in Staten Island did not indict that police officer who put Eric Garner in a chokehold back in July. The 43-year-old father of six died and his mother told CNN she cannot forgive Officer Daniel Pantaleo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: My son was no threat at that time. If you look at the video, he's talking to them, but he has his hands up at all times. They know that he wasn't going to try to attack them or anything. He wanted to be a hero. And he went behind him and put him in a chokehold and brought him down. And then he wouldn't let him go. As my son begged for his life, he still held on. So it was like a thrill kill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Eric Garner's mom there on "New Day." And here is Alexandra Field. She is out in New York's Times Square.

And, what, the protests began Wednesday night. They were even bigger, more massive last night. What are plans for this evening?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, we know that there's a large demonstration planned down in lower Manhattan around 5:30 today, another demonstration planned at 5:00. We've seen this thing grow and garner momentum and pick up steam over the last couple of days, spreading to different parts of the city and also to different cities around the country.

The first night, 83 arrests were made. The second night, 219 arrests were made. That makes some sense when you consider the fact that there were so many more people filling these streets, crowding into Times Square, on the Brooklyn Bridge, in Staten Island, in lower Manhattan, protesting and demonstrating and making themselves heard last night.

So, look, two nights does not equal a trend. We can't say that the third night is necessarily bigger than the second or the first. But we do know this. These people who believe so passionately in this cause and getting this message out have had more time now to organize and to coordinate with one another. We knew that when this decision came from the grand jury that if there was not an indictment of the officer involved in the death of Eric Garner last July, that we would see some protests, that we would see some demonstrations. And as soon as we heard that there was not an indictment, people got on social media and they started to organize. But as this has gained traction and gained so much attention, there are now these much more organized events taking shape and that's how we know to expect something, you know, for instance, at 5:00 or 5:30 today here.

BALDWIN: And, again, just to stress, you know, being out with these people for seven hours last night, entirely, entirely peaceful really up until the very end when I saw about two dozen people become arrested because they wouldn't get out of the middle of the Manhattan Bridge.

Alexandra Field, thank you very much, in Times Square.

Coming up next, you just heard from Eric Garner's mother. Next you will hear from Eric Garner's daughter who has to say that this is actually not about race. We'll share with you what she does think it's about.

Also, I'll speak live with someone who feels white police officers have a fear of African-American men. And hear his reason. Plus, demonstrators in Phoenix marching to police headquarters

protesting the death of a black man who was unarmed but shot during a struggle with a police officer.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Eric Garner's daughter, speaking here at CNN, says race was not a factor in her father's death at the hands of a white police officer. I want you to watch what she told my colleague, Don Lemon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So are you saying this is not an issue of race? I'm sure -- do you think it's a racial issue?

ERIC GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S DAUGHTER: I really doubt it. It was about the officer's pride. It was about my father being 6'4" and 350 pounds and he wanted to be, you know, the top cop that brings this big man down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in Carl Jones. He's the executive producer and head writer of "Black Dynamite," the animated series on Adult Swim. He's also co-executive producer of the hit animated series "The Boondocks," which won a Peabody award and was nominated for an NAACP Image Award.

Carl, nice to have you on. Welcome.

CARL JONES, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, ADULT SWIM'S "BLACK DYNAMITE": Thank you. How you doing, Brooke?

BALDWIN: I am doing all right, Carl. I'm doing all right.

You know, just listening to Eric Garner's daughter saying, you know, it was less about race and more about, you know, the use of power, police brutality, do you agree with that?

JONES: Well, I mean, I just - I look at the history of this country and I look at the pattern and it is obviously a repeat pattern. And I think a lot of it has to do with the dehumanization of black men in this country. And I think that can be largely contributed to social engineering, as well as negative media propaganda, you know. You know, unfortunately, when Obama was elected, I think two things happen in this country. I think, one, you know, black people felt as though we made it, and I think a lot of white people felt as though we just lost our country, you know. So I think those two things together, you know, kind of created a recipe for disaster, you know. And there was never this empathy or any type of sympathy for black men in America, you know, and I think a lot of that is due to, ,you know, what we see in the media. BALDWIN: Well, I think -- listen, you can say the media. I think it's

also pop culture, movies, and I think that's also, you know, from what I can understand, because you talk about this stereotype that black men are perceived by some, not all, Carl, but it is the superhuman monsters, that was something I read that you said. Where do you think that comes from?

JONES: Well, I mean, look, if Obama looked like Sam Jackson, I don't think he ever would have made it into office. You know I don't care, you know --

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

JONES: Well, what I mean is that I think there's a, you know, there's a certain fear that's associated with our image. And a lot of it is due to -- when I say media, you know, it's also television and film. For example, when you see stories that are told about black people, for example, like in the American gangster movie, you know, you take a guy like Frank Lucas, who we see this film about a guy who is just hell bent on destroying his own community and selling heroin and pumping drugs into the black community, but there was never any context or any back story to actually understand the circumstances that gave birth to this type of mentality. So you don't have any type of empathy for him as a human being, you know. Like, you don't know anything about him growing up in the south and witnessing his family members getting their heads blown off by the Ku Klux Klan, you know.

So you - so we start from a place of them being demonized or black men being vicious. When you listen to most of the - most of the - you listen to Zimmerman and you listen to the police officer that shot Mike Brown, you see - I mean, you know, that killed Mike Brown, you'll see that there's a pattern. Like people - they're saying that they feared for their lives and they seen these people as demons and they look like, you know, even gave an example of Hulk Hogan like it's - there's definitely a perception of black men in this country that is feared, you know, and that -

BALDWIN: So with this perception - I know. And with this stereotype in terms of deconstructing the stereotype, I was talking to - I had this phenomenal conversation with this rapper from Atlanta, Killer Mike (ph), Michael Render (ph), who he said something to me that really has just stuck and I think it's going to stick for a long time because I said, so now what, right? What would one solution be? And he said, Brooke, we have to be, you know - he's like, I'm a black rapper from Atlanta and I've always, you know, been a Democrat, but I have a lot of white conservative friends. I invite anyone who doesn't look like me to come to my church. We all need to be, you know, getting out there and mixing with others who maybe don't look and sound like us. And it sounds like, you know, you two agree with that, that we need to broaden our perspectives.

JONES: Well, I think it's more than that. I think we also have to create content that, you know, that actually gives, you know, different perspectives of the black experience and gives - and, you know, we can tell stories that do, you know - that do show a side of black people that don't necessarily hinge on the fact that they're black. You understand what I'm saying?

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: Black (INAUDIBLE). There's plenty of layers to, you know, what the solution is. But I would say, most importantly, I think we have to be a lot more pro-active in, you know, creating our own controlled media. You know, if we do - if we do agree that there's a lot of negative propaganda out there, we always have the ability with iPhones and our own cameras, we can go out there and cover stories and get - and, you know, actually show other sides to what's happening.

And just -- I don't want to get too winded, but if you - if you look at what's happening right now in the media, like where we see so many - we see so much film footage of the rioters and, you know, these people that are, you know, breaking into stores and destroying their communities, it's hard for you to have sympathy for the victim because subconsciously I think you draw a parallel between the victim and those people who are behaving like animals. So therefore you don't really have --

BALDWIN: I understand what you're saying, but I have to - I have to just - let me just come back with you with this because I was out with incredibly peaceful marchers last night. I was walking with them across the Brooklyn Bridge, back into Manhattan for seven hours and never once did I see, you know, smashing windows, tossing over cans, lighting any cars on fire. And so I do think that we are showing -- we're spotlighting that peace, the call for change, that's what I saw with my own eyes last night.

JONES: And to be fair, there is - there is some coverage of that. But I think there could definitely be more, you know. But I'm not - I'm not putting that responsibility on CNN. I'm saying this is our responsibility, you know, to bring these things to the forefront.

BALDWIN: Yes. Understand. I was just there and forgive me if I got a little -- this is what I saw.

Carl Jones, I appreciate it. I really appreciate your perspective. Thank you so much for joining me.

JONES: No problem.

BALDWIN: And continuing doing the deconstructing of stereotypes that we're talking about here in the media.

Coming up next on CNN, demonstrators in Phoenix marching to police headquarters protesting the death of a black man who was unarmed, was shot during a struggle with a police officer. Those details, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The police killing of an unarmed man in Phoenix, Arizona, brought protesters into the streets just last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: No peace. No justice. No peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Demonstrators marched to police headquarters to protest the death of Rumain Brisbon, who was shot while struggling with an officer who was investigating a tip about an alleged drug deal. Police say the officer thought Brisbon was clutching a gun in his pocket. That turned out to be a pill bottle.

CNN's Ana Cabrera is putting together the details, from Denver.

Ana, tell me more.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good afternoon, Brooke.

Let's be clear, we don't want to try to group all of these shooting deaths or deaths of unarmed African-Americans together because each case is unique. Let me tell you about what we've learned in this particular case involving 34-year-old Rumain Brisbon.

According to police, they had two separate witnesses who said there was some drug dealing happening from a black Cadillac SUV. So they responded. An officer was sent to the scene, encountered Brisbon inside a vehicle that matched the description of this vehicle that witnesses had reported.

He apparently took off as an officer encountered him and fled to a nearby apartment, which we now know was his girlfriend's apartment. And the officers followed suit. They tell us there was a physical struggle inside that apartment and, at some point, Brisbon reached inside a pocket. An officer tried to grab that hand that was reaching in the pocket and thought he felt the butt of a gun. That's when he used his gun, the officer's gun, and fired two shots into the torso of Brisbon and he died there on scene.

Now, we did hear from Brisbon's mother, who says her son was not perfect. She admits he had a criminal record, DUI, also drug possession, but she says he didn't deserve to die. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm telling you, this is not about race. This is about a young man gone too soon. This is about the police department, who are untrained and who needs proper training. He was somebody important. He was just not one raggedly little thug out there on the street. He was somebody important. And he made a difference in everybody's life that he touched.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The police chief telling African-American leaders in that community that he has pledged a full investigation. The Maricopa County attorney is looking into whether the use of force was justified in this case. We do know it was a pill bottle now that was in his pocket, not a gun, although police say there was a gun found in that vehicle that officers were suspicious about. You know, I want to point out that comment about race made by the

mother, Brooke, because she says she knows there is a heightened awareness about the conversation regarding other controversial cases, police encounters between law enforcement and African-American men. She doesn't believe that Brisbon was killed because he was black. She believes the greater issue is that, in this case, a police officer perhaps used lethal force too quickly. That he was too trigger happy. And she says that is what took her son's life.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Ana Cabrera, thank you so much.

Coming up, you have seen my interview with Charles Barkley this week and some of the comments he made about what happened in Ferguson, what happened here in New York, in Staten Island and beyond. His colleague, Kenny Smith, responded to some of his comments in an open letter to Mr. Barkley and the two sat side by side and spoke for 10 minutes addressing many of these issues the nation has been talking about this week. We'll share that with you and discuss, coming up.

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