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Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith Tackle Differences on Ferguson; Charles Barkley Talks Ray Rice, Roger Goodell; Protesting Mother Discusses Death of Son by Police
Aired December 05, 2014 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN on this Friday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.
Two great friends, buddies off and on the court, Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley, have been at odds the past couple days over some of their personal opinions about race sociopolitical issues, specifically as it relates to what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. Charles Barkley went public about his thoughts about the unrest in Ferguson, first, on a radio show, and then I sat down with him for about half an hour earlier this week. I asked him to respond to his comments calling these people who were breaking the law in Ferguson and looting and rioting and torching cars and called them scumbags and police officers are not out to kill and target black people.
That same day, his colleague Kenny Smith, penned an open letter in "USA Today" -- he told Chuck about it ahead of time -- heavily criticizing and challenging Charles Barkley. The letter stirred a social media frenzy. And then flash forward to last night, live on TNT, for 10-plus minutes, the life-long friends addressed it on live TV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES BARKLEY, TNT SPORT ANALYST: We as black people need cops in our community. They're not there just to "kill" black men. They're there to protect us. We as black people have to develop a relationship with them.
KENNY SMITH, TNT SPORTS ANALYST: We have to acknowledge there's a disparagement between poor people and African-American people in the law. At first, it was on purpose, and then civil rights has come, which is only 50 years or so behind. It's not like my parents were part of that. So you have to understand that it's still fresh in the African-American household.
BARKLEY: Maybe I shouldn't have used the term scumbags. It's irrelevant. There's no justification for what they did.
SMITH: We've all been angry or upset in emotional environments and they may have done things out of character. When you don't have a voice, sometimes this leads to that. So figure out a way, a solution, to give people a voice so they feel they can be heard other than burning down things and looting things.
BARKLEY: As a black man, if I came out and said all of the cops suck, all black the people say, I love that damn Charles Barkley. You are always in an awkward situation. But listen, as my grandmother said, I'm going to judge everybody by their own merits, black or white. I'll be fair. And some people are going to agree with me and some people are going to kiss my (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Here to discuss with attorney, Chelsi Henry, a conservative columnist at CNN, and Don Lemon.
Welcome to both of you. Thank you for joining me.
Mr. Lemon, since you are stuck sitting next to me, I'll begin with you. I think one thing is interesting watching this whole thing. We have talked a lot on your show about Charles' comments with me. I think it's first interesting saying scumbags referring specifically to the people who were breaking the windows and torching the police cars. You were there in Ferguson. You saw it with your own eyes. He said I'm sorry. I shouldn't use that word. That is one of Kenny Smith's points. In some of these communities, a lot of these people feel like they're on an island. You have flowers and you have the weeds.
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot in there.
BALDWIN: There's a lot.
LEMON: I really -- I am not laughing at them but laughing with them in a good way. I'm glad they had that conversation. It takes a big man to say maybe I shouldn't have done this. I'm sorry. That also goes to credibility and honesty. He may not say it perfectly. May not like what he says. He says it like he means it. That's what I love about him. I don't always agree with him.
Also, the conversation they were having, I had these conversations with my colleagues here. I had the same conversation, quite frankly, with Spike Lee in the Green Room, with Michaela Angela Davis in the Green Room, about me and how we cover news stories. I think that that's a conversation of privilege. You don't often see people of color, especially minorities, disagreeing with each other. We're not a monolithic group. In the minority, there is diversity inside of that. And that's what people are seeing playing out.
It's a good thing that this is happening because that means we are progressing as a society. People who are in a minority can disagree with each other and agree to disagree. I thought it was a great conversation and we need to do more of it.
BALDWIN: Chelsi, jump in. Do you agree with Don? We should keep talking about this?
CHELSI HENRY, ATTORNEY & CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: I think that the conversations we're having are very valuable. When I read Mr. Smith's letter, the first thing that popped out to me was his first three paragraphs he was praising Charles Barkley for all that he's done in the NBA, but then he went onto discuss, you know, maybe he's not as credible as someone like Al Sharpton. I took issue with that. Because Al Sharpton is a civil rights leader for hire and he's around giving speeches in front of the camera, but he's doing it so he can pay off his $4 million tax bill. And so I think that when we look at these conversations --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: That's not fair.
LEMON: That's not fair.
HENRY: The basis is that there is -- Reverend Al Sharpton has a $4 million tax bill. The basis is, when riots were happening in Ferguson, Al Sharpton wasn't there. We have to get back to communities taking control. Elected people who represent them. Being responsible in knowing who to vote for because when we think about police and we think about all of these issues that are taking place right now, it's a local issue. Police officers are local. Voters, residents, community members can go to the ballot box every four years to vote for judges and district attorneys and that's what we need to talk about. We need to talk about solutions to these problems and how we move forward with these conversations.
LEMON: Brooke, can I jump in? Do you mind?
So here's the thing. The Reverend Al Sharpton and I have a very similar relationship as Charles and Steve. We have a very -- as Charles Barkley and his colleague. We have a very similar sort of relationship. I don't always agree with Reverend Al Sharpton and he doesn't always agree with me. I rode the plane back with Reverend Sharpton from Ferguson. I don't have to defend him because he's not on the network. He is an activist. That's his role. That's his lane. We can criticize him. I don't think we should unfairly bring in a tax bill or anything like that.
I agree with you. We do need to talk about those issues but I don't think we should demonize each other just because we disagree with each other --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: That was Charles Barkley's whole point with me. When I talked to him earlier this week, he said why is it, Brooke, that I can't agree to disagree with some of the people who look like me maybe --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Without being called names.
BALDWIN: Exactly. Without being called names.
HENRY: I totally agree.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: So I don't want to devolve. We cannot and should not do that.
Chelsi, thank you so much.
Mr. Lemon, we'll see you all night.
LEMON: You always get me in trouble.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: That's how we roll.
LEMON: Thank you, Chelsi. It was nice meeting you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
Coming up, speaking of Sir Charles, we'll have more on my one-on-one with Charles Barkley. Here why he says -- this is something that's not yet made air this week and has nothing to do with what we've seen as far as Ferguson goes. It has to do with Ray Rice. And now that he's eligible to play again, does he think that he'll be picked up? And his harsh words for NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Now to the part of my conversation with Charles Barkley that you have not heard and the debate over Ray Rice and whether he deserves a second chance to play in the NFL. Barkley gives his take on that. He also has harsh words for the NFL commissioner as well.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Ray Rice, we have seen the video elevator knocking his fiance out cold. And we know that Ray Rice is eligible to play back in the NFL. Do you think a team is going to pick him up?
BARKLEY: I do not.
BALDWIN: Why?
BARKLEY: Too hot. Ray Rice made an awful mistake and it's going to take courage -- I hope somebody has the courage to give him another chance because he deserves another chance. Ray Rice made an awful mistake. I hope he gets another chance. He deserves another chance. Nobody is going to touch him right now. He's too hot right now. I would be totally shocked if somebody picked him up right now. It's too hot. I think, going into next season, I hope he gets a chance. I don't think a team has a courage. It will take courage. There will be protests and things like that.
BALDWIN: Why does he deserve a second chance? He knocked his then- fiance out cold? BARKLEY: We've had players who have killed people get second chances.
Can't ever hit a woman. Let me repeat that. You can't ever hit a woman. Let me tell you something. I've been really disgusted in Roger Goodell and Smith from the NFL. This thing could have been handled right away. If you hit a woman one time, you're going to get suspended for six games and if you do it -- let the legal process play out like it did with Ray McDonald in San Francisco. The second time you hit a woman, you'll never play pro sports again. For them to put off this "conduct policy" has been atrocious. You can't have men hitting women period.
BALDWIN: Should Roger Goodell still have his job?
BARKLEY: I'm not an advocate of people losing their job. For them two guys not to get together -- me and my dogs, in five minutes, could solve that issue. You can't hit women. You'll get suspended for six games. After the legal process play out, second time you hit a woman, you're suspended for life. Forever. You can't play in the NFL. And they have totally screwed this thing up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Christine Brennan, so nice to see you again.
Sports columnist for "USA Today," joining me.
Let's begin with Charles' comments just on -- he doesn't think -- he said Ray Rice is too hot right now. It would take too much for a team to pick him up any time soon. Do you agree?
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, SPORTS COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: I do. Just imagine all of the anger and the venom and concern and the horror really of what we saw when the video hit on September 8th, and imagine that bubbling to the surface now. Teams are in the playoff chase, to put this in football terms, and I don't see them wanting to roll the dice in this manner. Several teams have been mentioned. They said, we're not interested, not us. My sense would be that it would be next year if at all. And then it's still a bit of a risk. He'll be 28 years old which is old for an NFL running back or middle-aged for an NFL running back.
BALDWIN: Old. My goodness.
BRENNAN: He had his worst year last year and then he would have missed all of this year.
BALDWIN: Maybe next season. Do you think he deserves a second chance?
BRENNAN: You know, what are we as a nation if we don't allow second chances? My sense would be if he did get another chance, it could be a force for good and I'll explain. If he got a chance -- if Ray Rice got a chance to play on another team and came back and could then also speak to abusers and speak to the nation to do public service announcements, do some of the things that Michael Vick has done in an entirely different situation, but the animal rights advocates will tell you that Michael Vick has been a great advocate. I'm not comparing the two. If Ray Rice can start to do that, then I think he has much more impact if he's wearing a uniform and playing on an NFL team than if he's on the sidelines.
BALDWIN: To quote Mr. Barkley three times over in that interview, "You can never hit a woman."
Christine Brennan, thank you.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: So in New York, hundreds and hundreds of people took to the streets in the wake of the Eric Garner case, the non-indictment there, the non-indictment several -- just about two weeks ago in Ferguson. Among them, though, last night, in New York a mother whose son was killed by police in 2012. I talked to her in the midst of the marching last night and we'll share her story ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The stars will be on to honor 10 "CNN Heroes" who inspired and changed the world. Here's a sneak peek of the "CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CNN ANNOUNCER: You have the power to do anything, to make a difference. Inspire and change the world.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to do something for Afghanistan. I want to help the people and the dogs.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're giving them the best present in order to make a better future.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here to honor real heroes.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: It's going to be a great evening.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN HEROES, AN ALL-STAR TRIBUTE: Welcome to "CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute."
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is my honor to hug the weight lifter with the biggest heart ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never worry about what you can't do. Never, ever quit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's incredibly humbling to be recognized as a "CNN Hero."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This has been an amazing time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're killing me, CNN. Got me sobbing all up in my chardonnay.
CNN ANNOUNCER: See the stars come out to honor the top-10 "CNN Heroes" of 2014, "CNN Heroes, An All-Star Tribute," Sunday on CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: That was fun to be there. Don't miss it Sunday night.
Meantime, coming up here after a "Rolling Stone" article on alleged rapes and sexual assaults on the campus of the University of Virginia, the school suspended fraternities and now breaking this afternoon, the magazine is saying they may have been misled. There may be discrepancies in this star witness, if you will, in this entire major piece. We have that for you.
Plus, the police union blasting New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, saying he's anti police, even exploiting his own son.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Just last night in New York, I marched for hours and hours. About eight miles we clocked with several hundred people, marching, singing, chanting, protesting the decision not to indict the police officer in the death of Eric Garner.
There was a line of three mothers when you got to the front of the marchers. There was a march of three mothers leading this group who carried memories of their own lost sons.
I talked to Constance Malcolm. Her son was killed by a police officer in 2012. So she joined these protesters by lying on the ground -- they called this a die-in -- in silence for several minutes to honor Garner's memory.
In the case of Malcolm's son, Ramarley Graham, his killing, police entered their home without a search warrant. A Bronx grand jury did vote to indict the white police officer but that indictment has been thrown out on a technicality. So the mother told me she's simply waiting to see the Department of Justice will take their case. Here's our interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Thank you so much for spending a minute.
What was that, to see everyone lying on the ground with the cardboard coffins? The silence spoke volumes, I thought.
CONSTANCE MALCOLM, SON KILLED BY POLICE: I thought it did, too. Eric Garner laid on the ground for seven minutes and nobody helped him. No cops, no EMS. The EMS was standing around and the cops weren't doing nothing. I felt it so disrespectful. Our laying down here, showing we're powerful together.
BALDWIN: You lost your Ramarley two years ago.
MALCOLM: Two and a half years ago.
BALDWIN: How does that feel?
MALCOLM: It's still like yesterday. Nothing has changed. Every time you see a story like this on the news, it opens up old wounds. We lost a child, but we'll never forget. That's part of us that's missing and that gap will never be closed.
BALDWIN: With Michael Brown, with Eric Garner, to see in New York, we're standing in the middle of Atlantic Avenue, did you ever in a million years think that this would happen?
MALCOLM: I never thought it would. You know why? People are fed up. They want to see changes. And that's why we're out here because I have my son that was in the house when it happened two and a half years ago, and I have him out here, because I want people to understand that, when this happened, my whole family, I neglect my kids because I have to be out here fighting just for (INAUDIBLE).
BALDWIN: Let's walk with everyone, shall we?
