Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CIA Torture Report; Failed Rescue Raid; President Barack Obama Talks Race

Aired December 08, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're at the top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We are now hearing from the families of those two hostages killed during a raid to rescue them. The family of American photojournalist Luke Somers says he may have been saved with -- quote, unquote -- "more dialogue and less conflict."

But with al Qaeda threatening to kill Somers within days, the U.S. made this decision to swoop in to try to save him and anyone else being held at that compound in Yemen. But after this six-mile hike in the cover of darkness, it seems a barking dog blew their cover.

There was a firefight. The two hostages died. But in this cruel and tragic twist, we're now learning something the U.S. said it did not know, that the other hostage, South African teacher Pierre Korkie, was reportedly just hours from being released on ransom negotiated by this separate aid group.

Joining me now, Chad Williams former Navy SEAL and author of "SEAL of God."

Chad, welcome back.

CHAD WILLIAMS, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Thank you for having me on, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with cover of darkness. After this flight, you have this team walking six miles. I have to imagine this is a team that's in tiptop shape. I don't know exhausting that would be, six miles for these guys.

But how ready? What's going through their minds, their emotions at this pivotal time?

WILLIAMS: Well, they want to be concealed as possible. Obviously, the element of surprise is by far the most important factor when trying to pull off one of these most dangerous and difficult operations of rescuing a hostage.

And, yes, they are in top, tip physical shape. Most of these guys are covering at least, you know, these six miles with 75 pounds-plus of gear on them. I remember, when I was in Iraq, I weighed in at 105 extra pounds. But it's a very difficult thing to approach a place like this when it's on their home turf and they're probably anticipating our forces coming.

And so, yes, they have got animals that set off an early warning system and the gunfight ensues.

BALDWIN: But that's the thing. So, your whole point about element of surprise is key. Once that's blown, when their cover is blown, they have -- I imagine are training, OK, plans B, C and D if that happens. What's the strategy then?

WILLIAMS: Move forward as quickly as you possibly can. You want to try to get to that hostage as fast as possible once your cover is blown. You do what you have been trained for. These guys are trained to use deadly force. They are the highest trained individuals.

And they didn't get the hostages in time. They failed, but they failed trying. They failed trying valiantly.

BALDWIN: We mentioned there's been this private entity apparently had been raising money along and they successful negotiated the release of the South African, this teacher, Mr. Korkie, and they had been talking with the wife earlier in the year, but it seems they didn't let the government, South Africa or the United States, know what they were doing.

There's this whole this is a huge no-no. Certain governments such as the United States don't pay ransom. Do you agree with that premise?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely should not pay ransoms. They are going to try and bully us. What we're not going to pull out of our pockets is our freedom and our liberty. The saying that they may take our lives, but they will never take our freedom, we will fight for our right to live freely here in the U.S.

And it's not like we're not willing to pay anything at all. What determines the value of something is how much somebody is prepared to pay for it. We have determined the price of these hostages by our willingness to pay the highest price we can possibly pay, a currency that the enemy doesn't really want, our blood. We have got men that are willing to lay down their lives for the sake of this freedom. So, it's not like we have given up on those who are taken hostage.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: It's the greatest act of love, greater love.

BALDWIN: What about more coordination, though, between -- and I understand, listen, a lot of these details are highly, highly secretive of these different raids.

But you hear from some of these families, and they are frustrated with different governments for not being kept in the loop. Should the families get any kind of warning that this is about to happen to save their loved ones?

WILLIAMS: I don't think that would be in the best interest of their loved ones, because you never know where the leak could take place. We're dealing with top-secret information. Only those that have top- secret clearance should have that information.

But again we're trying the best we can. It's been said that greater love has no one than this, the one that lays down his life for his friends. That's what every single one of these soldiers is willing to do, to lay down their lives for the sake of these men. They are going to pay the highest price they could possibly pay to get to them.

BALDWIN: Chad Williams, thank you. And as always, thank you for you service. Appreciate you, sir.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: The family of a boy killed by police has filed a wrongful death suit and they are speaking publicly for the very first time. I'm talking about Tamir Rice, who was just 12 when a Cleveland police officer shot and killed him on November 22.

At the time, this young man was holding a toy gun. This lawsuit not only decries the shooting of this child, but the lack of action by police immediately in those moments and seconds after. Quoting this lawsuit now: "Four minutes passed without any medical care being provided to Tamir, who lay on the ground alive."

His family didn't go into much detail about the civil suit in a news conference today, but his mother did say this about the criminal case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMARIA RICE, MOTHER OF TAMIR RICE: I'm actually looking for a conviction. I really thought they was playing, like joking around. But I seen the seriousness in their face and it scared me, because my child doesn't do things like that. He just -- I don't allow that type of toy in my house, around him period.

QUESTION: Do you know where he got that gun, that toy gun?

RICE: A friend, one of his little friends he played with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me go to Martin Savidge, who is live with me now.

And we know that the attorneys, Martin, for the family say really their prime concern right now to get this arrest. You heard the mother saying she wants this conviction. And the confidence is definitely shaken in the system, isn't it?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. Yes.

Justice for Tamir is what they are calling for and that's the phrase they use. There's a familiar face that's now joined the legal team there for the Rice family, and that's Ben Crump. And Ben Crump is saying essentially that he doesn't believe that a grand jury is going to work in particular this system.

He says, look, we have seen two examples of it where it didn't appear to work when it came to the indictment of a police officer, Ferguson being one, New York being the other. He wants to see the prosecutor in Cuyahoga County, where this occurred, circumvent the grand jury and indict directly.

Now, in theory, that can to be done. But, in practicality, it's almost never done. And I have spoken with the prosecutor's office. They believe that this was going to proceed as normal. In other words, there will be a grand jury. There's currently an investigation under way. That will take about 90 days before it even gets to the prosecutor's office. So we're talking not until maybe February, March of next year.

BALDWIN: OK. We have also heard today as we have been listening to Tamir Rice's mother speak, she spoke about her daughter and how her daughter was mistreated at the scene. What happened?

SAVIDGE: The mom described this happened. This was November 22. She said it was 3:30 in the afternoon. This is Saturday.

Two little boys knock on her front door. She opens the front door and they tell her police just shot her son twice. Her 16-year-old boy races off to the park where this has just happened. Apparently, the 14-year-old sister was already there and police had detained her. You could imagine the emotional state she was in.

The mother shows up and she says police threatened her when she tried go to the aid of her son. This is how she described it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: As I was trying to get through to my Sony, the police told me to calm down or they will put me in the back of the police car.

And so, of course, I calmed down. And I asked the police to let my daughter go and they wouldn't at that time. I asked them, you know, what's going on? And they wasn't telling me anything, but just calm down, calm down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: So you can imagine how this was just a hugely emotional scene as this young boy has been shot and lying on the ground. He did not die until the following day, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Martin Savidge, thank you very much.

Just ahead here on CNN, we're now getting word that three people are dead, three others are missing after a plane crashed into this neighborhood. This is suburban Washington, D.C. We will take you live to the scene.

Plus the U.S. is on high alert for backlash as the Senate gets ready to release its report on CIA torture. Should it be public? We will discuss that.

And surprise. Anderson Cooper apparently has just been on a plane with this guy, Prince William. Happened to be on that flight, D.C. to New York. We will tell you what William and Kate have up their sleeves this evening in New York as the royals come to America. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And here's a question. What could be in the Senate report on post- 9/11 interrogations that prompted the Pentagon to warn commanders around the world that there might be trouble and to review base security. And why did John Kerry, secretary of state, pick up the phone, call Dianne Feinstein, who chairs the Senate Intel Committee, and ask to bear in mind the timing of the report's impending release?

We have talked for years and years about kidnappings of terror suspects, brutal interrogations, Gitmo, extraordinary rendition, et cetera. Is there even a bombshell left in all of this? Perhaps there is. The report is due for imminent release.

Michael Smerconish is with me now from Philadelphia, host of CNN's "MICHAEL SMERCONISH."

Great to see you, sir. I'm sure you have covered and talked about this a lot for years and years with your own listeners. Do you think there's some kind of bombshell that is likely to rock the world and potentially threaten American lives, Marines on high alert?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I like the way you framed it, Brooke, because we haven't seen the 500 pages. And that's only the executive summary, and yet I do feel as if I know a great deal about is about to be revealed because there's been so many leaks and there have also been a number of books that have been written.

I have had the privilege of speaking with Jose Rodriguez, who ran this program. As a matter of fact, you know he's staunchly opposed to what he believes is contained in the conclusion. He says this is going to be egregious falsehoods perpetrated on the American people and indeed upon folks around the globe. The one thing I feel certain of, the controversy won't end when the report is released.

BALDWIN: And also the timing of it in the midst of these war on ISIS, for example, perhaps that's what Secretary Kerry was alluding to. I don't know.

But it's since it's been a while since we talked water-boarding, and just to make sure, it stimulates drowning. It's supposed to make essentially a terrorist cry uncle and start telling what he or she knows. This is what it looks like. I want to show some video. This is the late journalist Christopher Hitchens. This is a story from "Vanity Fair." Harsh. Harsh to watch.

Legality aside, we're still debating whether water-boarding worked. Michael, some security folks say absolutely it did not. Others say we might not have gotten Osama bin Laden had some terrorist not ratted out his courier while they were being water-boarded. Remember that? SMERCONISH: I absolutely remember it.

As a matter of fact, I wrote a book about Jose Melendez-Perez, who was an American hero who stopped Mohammed al-Qahtani, the presumed 20th hijacker. Mohammed al-Qahtani is one of those with whom harsh interrogation methods or on whom harsh interrogation methods were used.

He gave up al-Kuwaiti, who was the courier that was followed back to the Abbottabad compound. Look, it's hard. I agree. It's hard to watch even Christopher Hitchens going through that simulated experience. But let's also keep in mind only three individuals were subjected to those techniques.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: OK. So there's some context. We also know that these reports are conducted. They're written for history.

How important -- you talk about writing a book. What about like flash forward 50 years. How important do you think this report we will see tomorrow is as a snapshot of what the U.S. did, how the U.S. reacted after the first major attack on the U.S. mainland?

SMERCONISH: I think it's important, but I think that there are constraints that I also respect if American lives are going to be jeopardized by the release of this information, as per Secretary Kerry's call to Dianne Feinstein. Then I do question the timing and whether this all needs to be put in the public domain.

Look, so that my cards are on table, I'm a believer in the utilization of whatever is necessary in what professor Dershowitz has described as the ticking time bomb. If you have someone in your custody and you have got reason to believe that they possess information that you can glean from them and save American lives, then there's very few things that I would say need to taken off the table and water-boarding wouldn't be one of them.

BALDWIN: We will wait to see what's in this tomorrow. And we will talk about it. Michael Smerconish, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

SMERCONISH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Developing -- developing right now, this plane crashing into this neighborhood in Maryland. We're now getting word about how many people were on board and in that home. Look at those pictures. Those details are next.

Plus, President Barack Obama talks race and says progress has been made, but a new poll suggests the exact opposite. Have race relations gotten worse under his leadership? We will discuss that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Want to come in and show you some live pictures here, just awful, awful to have to look at this.

This is suburban Washington, D.C., and here's what we know at this point in time. At least three people have died and three others are missing after this private jet crashed into this suburban neighborhood. We're told the jet crashed into the home and set two other homes on fire.

So this is clearly the aftermath and it even looks like some pieces of the plane there on the ground, one of these homes just absolutely burnt out. We're told the three victims were on board the plane and we're told three people who live at the home are currently unaccounted for.

Let me take you straight to the scene to Gaithersburg, Maryland, to our own Suzanne Malveaux.

Suzanne, tough, tough, tough scene there.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, a lot of people we talked to here, the family and the neighbors, you know, they are very close and they are very concerned about the three who are unaccounted for.

This is a very close community. It's a small cul-de-sac that we're standing here in Gaithersburg, Maryland. I know this area very well. I live pretty close when I got a call this morning from somebody who actually saw what went down.

I want to talk here to Tracy Everett. We have been watching a lot of his video throughout the day. He was here when you saw that jet hit these three homes right behind us.

Can you just very briefly describe what that was like?

TRACY EVERETT, WITNESS: I was traveling to a job site. Not really sure of my bearings, where I'm at exactly right now. But the plane flew overhead very low, couple hundred feet maybe off the ground or the canopy of the trees, flying erratically.

I seen them kind of barreling, diving behind the trees and I saw the plume of smoke. Just hurried my way toward the smoke. Got here into the neighborhood. Found this home is behind us, EMS vehicle here on fire, and EMS was on scene at that time, just getting here, trying to get unloaded. And it was just a pretty -- seemed a little bit of pandemonium.

MALVEAUX: And we know there were multiple explosions. We saw that video that you took on your cell phone and the fire that just erupted. Neighbors were quite afraid. They were scared.

We know two of these three houses, they were hit by the fuselage. Much of the plane is there. It's the third home that was burned out that is really in question.

EVERETT: Yes. That was where the secondary explosion took place you saw in the video. Shortly just moments after that, EMS starting trying to get people out of the houses, trying to push people back to set up a perimeter.

MALVEAUX: I want to talk to the fire chief here, Brooke. This is Steve Lohr. He's joining us, Montgomery County fire chief.

Chief, thank you so much. I know you're really busy now. You and I talked before. The sad thing is we know there were five people, five family members, two adults, three young children, one as young as 7 weeks old, who lived in that house, that charred-out, burned-out house behind us. Who is accounted for and who is not? What do we know?

STEVE LOHR, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND, FIRE CHIEF: We have two of the five family members that are accounted for. Regrettably, three are unaccounted for at this time.

We're in the process of shoring up the structurally unstable portion of this house so that we can finish the work of trying to account for those family members.

MALVEAUX: Do we know if these are adults or these are children who are accounted for? Are you speaking to family members? How are you actually pursuing this?

LOHR: Well, we're relying on our investigative partners, Montgomery County police, National Transportation Safety Board, FAA, Maryland State Police and others that are here.

But, yes, so the interviews with neighbors, other family members, we believe there's one adult and two children.

MALVEAUX: And we know that there were two cars in the garage at the time of the explosion. Does that say anything -- or in the driveway. Does that say anything about what we suspect, who we suspect was at home at the time?

LOHR: It really doesn't. That's a trigger for fire rescue units arriving. Cars in the driveway would indicate someone is home traditionally, whether in the middle of the night or middle of the day. But until we can do our investigative work, we're just trying to confirm what's going on here.

MALVEAUX: Chief, I know it's a hard question to know or to be able to answer, but is it possible, is it possible in any way that perhaps the whole family wasn't in this home at the time and that they are unaccounted for because they just -- they are somewhere else, that this might be a situation where those people did not perish in their home?

LOHR: It's at least possible, but we're over four hours into this incident right now. We received the first 911 call from the National Guard armory across the street at about 10:44 this morning. We had -- the call was immediately dispatched, less than a minute. We had units on the scene in less than seven minutes.

MALVEAUX: Chief, we certainly -- we are wishing and praying for the best. Thank you very much for your good work. Brooke, you know, it's hard to know whether or not -- what the news is

going to be here, but we do know the three people who were aboard the jet, the plane, they have died. And now, again, neighbors and friends are anxiously awaiting to see what we find out about those five family members inside of that home -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. I have seen those cars in the driveway. Your heart just drops. Our thoughts obviously with the community and those family members.

Suzanne Malveaux, thank you so much in Gaithersburg, Maryland.

Just ahead here on CNN, Eric Garner's daughter and now widow agreeing that race did not play a role in what has happened with this non- indictment. My next two guests though who will join me leading some of these protests completely disagree with them. We will get their take on all of this.

Plus, as these protesters spreading from coast to coast, they turn violent in one city.

And Prince William met the president this morning. Here's that photo- op. Tonight, will he meet the king? We will explain as the royals come to America next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)