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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protests in California Get Violent; Plane Crashes Into Home in Maryland; Rebuilding Trust Between Police and Communities; LAPD Investigating Allegations Against Cosby

Aired December 08, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Fury over the New York City chokehold case has now extended far beyond New York. And protests in California are getting violent. Protesters in Berkeley were met with tear gas for a second night. Police say people threw rocks and bottles at them, and nearby in Oakland, even explosives. It is not clear at this point what kind of explosives, but a highway patrol spokesperson says the protesters had Molotov cocktails and firecrackers. Eight people were arrested. Alexandra Field shows us how this night unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Violence erupting for a second night in northern California after 500 protesters swarmed an Oakland freeway, a standoff with police officers who eventually deployed tear gas and arrested a small number of people. In Berkeley, demonstrators looting multiple businesses. A peaceful protester trying to stop a looter was hit in the face with a hammer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A guy with a crowbar comes in and starts steeling stuff, like as much as they can get.

FIELD: This after a grand jury decided last week not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo in Eric Garner's chokehold death.

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: Peace is the message. We don't want any violence, but keep on keeping on.

FIELD: Just the night before, a group of agitators in Berkeley, California, broke windows and threw what they could at the hundreds of local police in full riot gear. Some demonstrators saying on social media police were firing rubber bullets. Police have yet to comment.

In New York City over the weekend, a few hundred people clashed with police, staging die-ins at Grand Central Station, Apple's flagship store, Macy's in Herald Square. The national outcry even hitting the field.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): He gets away, but he goes down.

FIELD: Washington Redskins defensive linesman Chris Baker making the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture after a play Sunday and several NFL and an NBA player wearing, "I can't breathe" t-shirts." New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio tells ABC News this week his predecessor, Rudy Giuliani, "fundamentally misunderstands the reality."

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK: You cannot look at an incident in Missouri, another incident in Cleveland, Ohio, and another incident in New York City, all happening in the space of weeks, and act like there's not a problem.

FIELD: Giuliani blasted de Blasio on Fox News last week, saying it's, quote, "racist" to not acknowledge black-on-black crime, after de Blasio said he tells his bi-racial son to take special care around police.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: You should spent 90 percent of your time talking about the way they're actually probably going to get killed, which is by another black.

FIELD: Garner's widow told NBC's "Meet the Press" she fears for her children.

ESAW GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S WIFE: I'm so afraid of what could happen to them in the street by the police. It is -- I'm afraid of the police.

FIELD: Alexandra Field, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: A new NBC/Marist poll asks this question. Have the grand jury decisions in New York and Ferguson, Missouri, increased or decreased your confidence in the legal system? Here's a look at the results. Thirty-five percent of white people say their confidence has decreased, but the figure for African-American people, twice that, 70 percent. Among Latinos it is 57 percent. President Obama is addressing the protests and racial tensions in this interview with B.E.T.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This isn't going to be solved overnight. This is something that is deeply rooted in our society. It's important to recognize, as painful as these incidents are, we can't equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago. And if you talk to your parents, grandparents, uncles, they'll tell you that, you know, things are better, not good in some cases but better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And as you heard the president mention, people are drawing comparisons to the civil rights movement. So are these protests today rising to that level from back then? I'm joined now by Leonard Pitts, the columnist for "The Miami Herald," who has written several op-eds about Ferguson, Missouri. And here in New York, CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill.

And, Leonard, if I can just begin with you. You have spoken very eloquently about the current circumstance that this country is facing and you have said that black and white people need to wake up and do something. So I want to ask you if you think what's happening is the right do something, or is there a big difference between today's do something and the '60s do something?

LEONARD PITTS JR., "MIAMI HERALD" COLUMNIST: Well, you know, when you talk about what's happening today, obviously the violence is unconscionable and can't be condoned by any thinking person. But just in the sense of people becoming agitated, people deciding to, as John Lewis (ph) actually put it, get in the way of the system, I think that's definitely the right do something.

In terms of comparing it to the 1960s, it's very interesting what the president said about 50 years -- things are not as bad as they were 50 years ago. Well, the obvious corealer (ph) to that is, things 50 years ago were not as bad as they were 50 years before that, but I don't think anybody would counsel a protester in 1964 during the Jim Crowe justice to accept it patiently. And I don't think we can count -- that we can counsel people dealing with this police brutality and this wave of shootings of unarmed black men and boys with patience. Patience is the wrong thing at this point.

BANFIELD: And, Marc, I've also seen some people raise the idea that there is -- it's a leadership-less revolution.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BANFIELD: That there's not that remarkable leadership that everyone is drawn to. But at the same time I think, well, isn't there a President Obama who is a black leader, in a sense?

HILL: Well, he's a leader who happens to be in a country where there are black people. I wouldn't call him a black leader per se. And not in the tradition that we're talking about. Not in the tradition of Martin King, not in the tradition of (INAUDIBLE), or Alan Baker (ph) or even Malcolm X. That's a different strand. Barack Obama is coming out of a legal and political kind of strain. That's a different thing. It's necessary on a certain level, but it's different. The leadership --

BANFIELD: Do you think he's avoiding it specifically because he doesn't want to be seen as a black leader. He wants to be seen as a leader. A leader of America, not as a black leader.

HILL: Right, and he should be. He - right, he should be wanting to be seen as a leader of America. But America has black people, we're citizens, and no other constituency has been kind of held at arm's length the way black people have. But the idea of being a leadership revolution I think is encouraging. As much as people loved Martin Luther King, the idea of a messianic leader and a charismatic leader, and typically a male leader, is one that in some sense has become antiquated and probably was never exactly ideal. You need charismatic leadership. You need lots of people at the top for the media and for speeches and to motivate the troops. But at the core you want a range of leaders. You want male leaders, you want female leaders, you (INAUDIBLE) cut across the difference. You can't shoot down the leader of Occupy - you can't shot down the leader of black (INAUDIBLE). BANFIELD: Charles Blow (ph) said this is sort of like a crowd sourcing

kind of movement.

HILL: Yes.

BANFIELD: And, Leonard, jump in on this if you would for me because I think that's something also that needs some addressing. Is this the kind of movement that would be a flash or is this an absolute change? Is this a movement? Because Occupy fizzled somewhat, yet gay marriage and immigration, they went political, they went push, shove politically, legally, and look what's happened.

PITTS: I think we're at the moment where we're going to see what's going to happen, where we're going to decide whether or not this is going to be a movement. I'm certainly hoping so. I see all of the signs of that. It's funny that, you know, today I'm writing a column for Wednesday which was going to quote Dr. King's, there comes a time when people get tired, and I think that that time has come around again.

As to leadership, I go back and forth. I've made both arguments, sometimes within the course of a single day. You know, there are times when I think that there is value in charismatic leadership just in the ability to focus and to have that focal point person who can articulate the needs and desires of a given community, whether we're talking about African-Americans or whatever, to the power structure. But on the other hand, that doesn't seem to be, you know, the model of this era and people seem to be - you know, people are moving without that. And I have to applaud that.

HILL: Yes. I'm encouraged by that.

PITTS: You can't wait on Dr. King to, you know, to come back. That's not going to happen.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. If there is merits to both kinds of movements, ultimately there is nothing like a ballot box. And if you look back at the - I think it was the 2013 municipal elections, the African-American turnout was 6 percent. If I recall - in Ferguson. But if I recall, that was somewhat mirrored around the country as well. So, ultimately, if change has to happen, Charles Blow in "The New York Times" said, sure, exhale the pain first -

HILL: Yes.

BANFIELD: But ultimately someone's got to get moving. And who is going to push towards the ballot box in the political process, Marc?

HILL: I don't want to overstate or fantasize the ballot box though. I think voting is important. Voting is what gets you on those juries so that you can make different decision when it comes to the Michael Browns or the George Zimmermans - or, rather, the Trayvon Martins of the world. Voting helps you get the type of leadership you want and the type of police force you want. All that stuff matters. Voting does matter and we should all register to vote. Let be very clear about that. But, remember, public accommodations in '64 didn't come truly from people going to the ballot box. Voting rights in 1965 didn't come from the ballot box. Brown v. Board, 1955 didn't come from the ballot box. It came from people on the ground willing to risk their lives. Those laws were co-signed in ink. They were written in blood. And that's the kind of work that we need to see now. So when I see this movement, I'm inspired by them and I want them to do voter registration, but I also want them to continue to shut down highways. I also want them to continue to be heard, because that's what's going to make a change. But the key here is a concrete goal. We can't just say, we want change. Occupy died because they wanted to end capitalism. Good luck to that. You need a concrete goal. We want citizen review boards. We want community control of the police. Concrete goals.

BANFIELD: Yes. I'm glad you brought that up because that is the topic of our next segment, absolutely what you just said, and I think that's what a lot of people are saying as well.

Leonard Pitts, Marc Lamont Hill, great conversation and it ain't over. So thank you both. Do appreciate both the attention you're paying to this and the way you're paying it.

A death in Cleveland is also drawing nationwide attention. A 12-year- old boy, Tamir Rice, was shot and killed by police for brandishing what turned out to be a toy gun. His mom said today that she wants a conviction for the officer who shot her son. And she just spoke last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMARIA RICE, MOTHER OF TAMIR RICE: Tamir was a bright child. He had a promising future and he was very talented in all sports, soccer, basketball, football. He played drums. He drew. He played video games. He's a great swimmer. The community loved him. He was a helper at the school and at the rec. And, you know, everybody just loved him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Rice's mother says that her son got that toy gun from one of his friends.

The death of Eric Garner is still inspiring protests in cities across the United States. More than 80 percent of African-Americans say that police hold them to a different standard they do whites. You just head Marc Lamont Hill talk about this. Ahead, I'm going to talk with a man who says a lawsuit changed police in Cincinnati for the better. So, what else might change things for the better?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We've got some breaking news we want to bring to you out of Gaithersburg, Maryland. That scene that you're seeing on your screen is the remnants of a plane crash. If you can believe it, it's hard to make out what piece is what. But here's what we do know from the FAA, that apparently a jet crashed a mile north of the Montgomery County Airport in Gaithersburg, Maryland. This happened about 11 a.m. Eastern today.

The aircraft in question was on approach to runway number 14 at that airport when this crash occurred. It looks to be a residential building in Gaithersburg, in a neighborhood. A fire did break out. There were damages, obviously, to several of these buildings, particularly one that you can see on your screen.

The Montgomery County Fire and Rescue Service did respond. They got the fire out but they are involved right now in what they're calling search and rescue efforts. Clearly what you're seeing on the ground is more than likely the result of some kind of a foam that might have been deployed in terms of trying to get the fire out, but it is almost impossible, from this vantage point, to determine where the aircraft wreckage is in comparison to the residential complex damage.

At this point, we do not have any report of injuries or deaths, but I can tell you this, our CNN affiliate WUSA says there were at least three people who were onboard that aircraft. I think you can see the fire and rescue off to the right of your screen as well. But that is the word, that they are apparently involved in a search and rescue in Gaithersburg, Maryland. But what a scene. Just unbelievable destruction of whatever that aircraft was. And we're told it was an Ebrayer (ph) 500, a Phenom (ph) 100 twin engine jet that apparently crashed at 11:00 this morning. We'll continue to update you when we find out more details from the FAA and from sources on the ground.

And just before the break, you also saw some poll numbers. An NBC/Marist poll showing how differently black and white Americans are reacting to the Eric Garner and the Michael Brown grand jury decisions. The poll also asked respondents something else, do you agree or disagree with the following statement. Read along. Law enforcement applies different standards to whites and African- Americans. And there are the results. Thirty-nine percent of whites do agree, compared to 82 percent of black people. And that startling difference illustrates a deepening mistrust, perhaps, for police in black communities. An import part of rebuilding that trust may be a more holistic approach to law enforcement and community policing in the minds of people who have been echoing these sentiments from the streets and also from the communities.

I'm joined now by the president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, Cedric Alexander, and also by Reverend Damon Lynch III, who pushed through reforms in the Cincinnati Police Department after an incident in 2001, the shooting of an unarmed black man. Just so you know what the reforms include, and they are significant, problem oriented policing, officers trying to identify issues that actually cause crime, civilians working with police to reduce the crime, and a civilian board to investigate complaints against the police.

Reverend Lynch, I'd love to start with you on this, because as I read through some of the information about your movement and what it inspired and what happened and what's happened since 2001, I was wondering how much input you might actually have in the current circumstance because it almost looks like a mirrored situation. There is a Ferguson review board right now, a community board that has convened to put together suggestions for how to move forward in that community. I really don't know where New York is, this is all so raw and fresh. But are you being tapped for your expertise and your knowledge for what you were able to do in Cincinnati? And if not, why not?

REV. DAMON LYNCH III, PASTOR, NEW PROSPECT BAPTIST CHURCH: Right. Well, what we have - and we've spent some time in Ferguson. We've also spent some time in New York. We have an agreement that we think is -- can really change how policing is done throughout this country. So we have been called upon -- actually, I'm meeting with Cleveland when I get off the air here in the next hour.

BANFIELD: Well, that's good to know because clearly there is a crisis in which people with experience and success will be helpful.

LYNCH: Right.

BANFIELD: And it turns out, there's a lot of success. Like what your pursuits led to federal oversight. It led to differences in the way police conduct their business with regard to pursuits and medical history and mental illness and just the standards by which they assess situations. Ultimately, as I understand it, the federal oversight wasn't needed any longer.

LYNCH: Well, what's important that this -

BANFIELD: Go ahead.

LYNCH: Right.

Well, what's important is that this was a grassroots effort because we wanted to reform policing, reform the use of force policies, but at the end of the day have better police/community relations. So we have a citizens complaint authority that is slightly different than what Ferguson is looking at. Ours has investigatory and subpoena power, which was important to us. We changed how policing is done. As you said, it's now problem-oriented policing. So it's a strong document that now is in force, even without federal oversight. The community keeps it in force. So other communities really need to look at this -

BANFIELD: So I want to -

LYNCH: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

BANFIELD: Oh, I just wanted to interrupt for a moment, only because I want to get Cedric Alexander to weigh in on this as well.

I was looking at one of the local papers here in New York. I'm just going to lift it up so you can have a peak at this. If you can't read the headline, the headline says, "It's Not Black and White," and there's a photograph right up here of the widow of Eric Garner saying that this wasn't about Eric Garner being black, it was about him being huge. And the interesting thing that's come out is that Gwen Carr, who is his mother, and also Erica Garner, who is his daughter, have echoed the same sentiment. That for Eric Garner's case, it was really about a very large man as opposed to a black man. Does that make any difference in terms of the situation that we have in America and the need that America has in terms of figuring out a relationship that works between police African-American community, Mr. Alexander?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, PRES., NATIONAL ORG. OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Well, you know, what you asked was a very long and protracted problem of perception that has inundated this country for a very, very long time. And regardless of whether it's true or it's perception, whatever the mind of that person, I think the issue truly that we have here, Ashleigh, is that there is a clear divide between police and communities of color. Now, that's outlined there in the statistics that you showed a few moments ago, but, of course, those are not new statistics. I've seen them before over the years.

The issue that we have in front of us now, quite frankly, is, what are we going to do that's going to be different? If the reverend, who's joining us today, if he has a process there in Cincinnati and they show demonstrated successes in it over the last 10, 12 years, then it certainly is something maybe that other cities across this country need to look at.

But let me say one thing in addition to that as well, too, Ashleigh. There are a number of departments out there that are doing it right and are doing it well. And we're not in the same place that we were 50 years, as we heard the president say earlier. But at the same time as well, too, we also know we have a lot of great work left to do. And rather this is going to be a movement or not, I think we're going to make that determination more clearly here in the weeks and the days to come.

BANFIELD: Dr. Cedric Alexander, it is always a joy to speak with you. And, Reverend Damon Lynch, thank you so much for being a part of this.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I hope this is not the last conversation we have. Thank you both.

LYNCH: Thank you.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Another story with some major new developments. A big police department has opened a criminal investigation of this man, Bill Cosby. And, yes, I said it, a criminal investigation. That something that hasn't really been bandied about as a possibility lately and now it is. The details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Los Angeles Police are now investigating a sexual assault claim against Bill Cosby. Yes, the police. They won't say what specific allegations they're looking into, but here's what we know. The complainant is this woman on the left, Judy Huth. She's seen standing here beside her attorney, Gloria Allred, after a meeting with detectives on Friday. Days earlier, Huth filed a civil suit against Mr. Cosby claiming that the entertainer sexually assaulted her at the Playboy mansion back in 1974 and that was when she was only 15 years old.

I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos, and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson is going to join us in a moment.

But, Danny, this is critical. We're talking about now the police getting involved in an investigation, we're not talking about charges yet, and someone who says she was 15. She's not different in her story than the other accusers, now I think numbering 18 or more. Why all of a sudden possibly an investigation when it comes to her?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the LAPD has said that they will investigate all sexual assault cases, even if they're out of the statute. And, remember, the statute of limitations in this case is going to be 10 years for an adult. However, the LAPD knows, as most sex crimes investigators know, that if you investigate one sex crime, you might get a lead to another sex crime and yet another sex crime, that will lead to another and new case. At least as to the original complainant, who's out of time for their particular allegations, that person may still be called to testify as a witness, even if their particular case never resulted in criminal charges.

BANFIELD: OK, so let me ask you, this gets very complicated because there are a lot of accusers, a lot of different stories, and sometimes it's hard to keep them straight. But with Judy Huth's case, this one in question, 15 years old, says she was a guest at the Playboy mansion, she was -- her claim is that she was assaulted by Cosby, she's filed a civil action. And Mr. Cosby has counter-acted and he has claimed a lot of things that aren't right on her behalf.

Number one, naming him. Everybody's naming him. Why isn't she allowed to name him?

CEVALLOS: This plaintiff has a problems, and it's only with these particular cases. The general rule is, even if you're a victim of sexual assault, if you're a minor and you can show that you had some reason that you only recently realized in the last three years that you had been assaulted, California law allows you to bring that claim.

However, there's a caveat and there are a number of protections that safeguard against -- in cases like these that are very old -- naming an individual 30 years later that might really defame them or damage their reputation. Number one, you need a doctor or some provider to say, hey, here's a medical reason why this person actually forgot until now. And, number two, just to be safe, under the rules, you have to name them as a John Doe plaintiff. In other words, a sunanim (ph). Until a court decides, hey, there's enough evidence that you can name this person. They didn't do that. They named Cosby by name. And Cosby's argument now, which I think is a strong legal one, is that the cat is now out of the bag. They can't now comply with the rule by filing an amended complaint.

BANFIELD: You can't unring the bell.

CEVALLOS: They have already fatly failed to comply with this rule.

BANFIELD: Wow, that is -- there will be a lot more twists and turns though. What I'm fascinated by is that, if he's countersuing, will he have to come in and assert his right under oath? Will he be asked questions under subpoena? So that will be fascinating.

I need to break into this for a moment, so excuse me for a minute, Danny, if you will.

I've got some new pictures that I want to bring to you out of Gaithersburg, Maryland. Just a few moments ago we got this raw video in. So, pardon us. It hasn't been edited yet. And an actually we're bringing these into you as they come in live to us as well.

So, this is the ground shot from Gaithersburg, Maryland, where that airplane disaster happened.