Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CIA Report On Interrogation Techniques Causes Heightened Terror Alert; NFL Star Quarterback Cam Newton In Car Accident

Aired December 09, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're back with our breaking news. I'm Brooke Baldwin here. Now hearing exactly what CIA interrogators did in their attempt to break down terrorism suspects. The torture includes sexual threats, sexual threat, water boarding, sleep deprivation, and the political fallout is definitely rolling in.

With me now here on set, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger and in Washington, our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash.

Gloria, to you first. It is like we know this whole thing, this is Feinstein and the Democrats, then you have the Republicans who fervently disagree with the release of this with the asterisk footnote John McCain today.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, John McCain today came out and said, I thought quite eloquently that this is a really hard pill to swallow. And to those people who this is going to give ISIS another excuse to behead Americans, he said they don't need another excuse. This is, you know, this is what they do. But he believes that torture is the wrong thing and it's ineffective.

So what you have here is not only a political argument, Brooke, but its two different world views. Is torture effective or is it ineffective?

BALDWIN: That report says it's not. The CIA says it is.

BORGER: Did the CIA mislead Congress as members of the intelligence committee say because they were not briefed. When you hear from intelligence officials, they say we didn't mislead Congress. We were not allowed to tell them about parts of this program because it was a presidential program.

So I don't think we're going to resolve any of these arguments any time soon. But I would say that it's all out there or some of it's out there for the American people to look at. It's not pretty, to digest and try to understand what happens when you're fighting a war on terror.

BALDWIN: I want to hear more from you, Dana Bash, because we've heard from chairwoman Feinstein, you know, throughout the day. But from Republicans in this dissenting opinion, tell me what they're saying. DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, where do we

start? They just think it's flawed from the beginning when it comes to the investigation to its conclusions. They believe that it has a lot of inaccuracies because the committee investigators relied on documentation and didn't actually interview the CIA operatives who were involved on these interrogations. Diane Feinstein had a lengthy explanation of why she didn't. But regardless, Republicans say they can't lead to a conclusion that's accurate.

And they also say that the fundamental idea that, as Gloria said, you're hearing the same thing from the CIA. The fundamental idea that there were no -- there is no actionable intelligence, meaning the torture didn't work, that's just on its face not true. And then, of course, there's the politics. Listen to what Senator Marco Rubio of Florida said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: It's going to put a danger to American servicemen and women, American diplomats serving abroad. They know it puts in danger our alliance with key partners in the war on terror and they're going to go forward with it anyway because they are more interested in trying to embarrass the Bush administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You're hearing that a lot from Republicans in the hallways here. Orrin Hatch who is not somebody who curses very much, from Utah, called a political piece of crap in the hallways today. And they do think the Democratic-led committee is trying to go back in time and try to unearth some things to hurt Republicans, to embarrass Republicans.

I will tell you that the Democrats led by chairwoman Feinstein strongly disagree with that. They say this was not intended to be political. This was intended to just simply do Congress' job of oversight. And then there's no community that needs oversight more than the intelligence because by its nature, its definition, they're secret.

BALDWIN: Not intended to be political. I mean, Republicans wanted nothing to do with this.

BORGER: Right. But anything that you're going to do regarding the question of torture is going to be political. People come at it from different views. I don't think we can set aside the fact that Diane Feinstein is no longer going to be the chairman of the intelligence committee. I think it was very important to her to put this out on her watch and not have it leak out piece by piece.

BALDWIN: Which is what would've happened at the top of the year.

BORGER: Yes, it might have. It's going to get out. And I think that by sort of putting it out there before the American people, the debate now starts and maybe the reset starts of how we regard the CIA and what the CIA's accountability should be. BALDWIN: Should there be oversight.

BORGER: Right. There is -- allegedly. There is oversight. And there should be oversight. But we're talking about a reset, we're talking about accountability. Because, you know, this is the most sweeping indictment of the CIA in what, 40 or 50 years, I mean. So now it's -- now it's out in the open and the discussions need to continue about it.

BALDWIN: Six hundred or so pages of it.

Gloria Borger, thank you. Dana Bash, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

BASH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, one question hanging over this after the release of torture report from the Senate, should anyone be charged with a crime? Or were these policies a relic of a different era right after 9/11. We'll ask someone who was a top official at the CIA after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The royal couple got a big taste of the Big Apple last night attending the very first NBA game between the Brooklyn Nets and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Here they are with the king, Lebron James. Got to meet Lebron, said hello to Jay-Z, Beyonce and none other than NBA legend Dikembe Mutombo. Look the three of them here, formally of the Houston Rockets, but of course, most well known for his humanitarian work. You can see him there seated next to Prince William and Duchess Katherine acting as global ambassador.

And Dikembe Mutombo straight from the airport in New York, to Atlanta to CNN. He is a favorite of me.

Dikembe, I so appreciate it. You know, when I called you up this morning, when I saw you in the paper sitting next to them. When did you know you'd be seated next to the royals?

DIKEMBE MUTOMBO, FORMER NBA PLAYER: I think in the morning. In the morning we have a meeting at the NBA headquarter office where I was briefed about the protocol. And --

BALDWIN: Hold on, let me talk about how they told you to behave. What did they say to you, Dikembe?

MUTOMBO: I'm going to have to extend my arms or my hands to them and they extend their hands to shake my hands. I could not hug them and all this stuff. It was a security protocol.

BALDWIN: Dikembe, you have been around the world many times. You've met a lot of people. But be honest, were you nervous?

MUTOMBO: You know I have a chance to play this game for so long where I have a tendency to move my arm and to hurt people sometimes. So I was very careful sitting next to the duchess. You know, she is very (INAUDIBLE) and far more pregnant. I was so scared.

BALDWIN: So you were aware she's five months along. You wanted to keep your arms more or less to your sides.

MUTOMBO: You can see I was holding my left arm very tight close to me.

BALDWIN: Dikembe, what did you -- what did you say to them? Take us inside your conversation, if you will.

MUTOMBO: We did understand really on the morning never been in a basketball game before. It was the first experience, first time experience. So it was a good opportunity for me to be there as the NBA global ambassador to explain it to them, to make them understand about what our game is all about, what I was doing, and what our players are doing out there to win the game. It was really -- I'm glad they -- I really thank God the opportunity was given to me by the commission.

BALDWIN: And also, on a much more serious note, weren't you talking about being an ambassador because I know a lot of Prince William. You talked to the president about his effort to save wildlife. Talk to him about that.

MUTOMBO: Yes. We have a chance to talk more about my role in the royal family foundation, which I'll be serving as the ambassador worldwide to protect the wildlife around the world. As you understand in Africa, more than 30,000 elephants were killed. That was a lot. More than 10,000 rhino was killed, that was a lot. You talk about the gorillas, and even all the way to the east of Congo. We lost so many mountain gorillas because of their fight. And the people continue to poach so many animals, which they don't have to. And we're trying to teach so many village people how they can live in alongside with the lions, with the different cab instead of killing them.

BALDWIN: I think your foundation's phenomenal, the Dikembe Mutombo foundation. You just took your family there over the summer. So perfect for you to be seated next to the two of them and perhaps you will -- perhaps you'll have an invite to the royal palace the next time --

MUTOMBO: No. They invite me already. They asked me to come to come.

BALDWIN: Well, then, we buried the lead.

MUTOMBO: They asked me to come meet the queen mother with my wife and the kids. So I'm looking forward to that trip.

BALDWIN: Well, that's not nothing.

Dikembe Mutombo, enjoy that. And thank you, thank you, thank you for jumping on CNN for me.

MUTOMBO: Thank you, my friend. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Great to see you. Thank you. Now, back to our special coverage here. One stunner from that Senate

torture report we have been reporting on in the last two hours. President Bush kept in the dark about many of the details of the CIA's tactics and procedures. How do officials know what to tell the president and what to keep secret? We'll ask someone who knows all about that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news before this, you know, Senate report, some 6,000 pages on the CIA's torture methods was even released. President George W. Bush was quick to defend the people who worked at the CIA during his administration. He talked to Candy Crowley. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf. These are patriots. And whatever the report shows, if it diminishes their contributions to our country, it is way off base. And I knew the directors, I knew the deputy directors, you know, I knew a lot of the operators, these are good people, really good people. And we're lucky as a nation to have them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now is Jeremy Bash. He is the managing director of beacon global strategies, a policy advising firm, but he also chief of staff to Leon Panetta some years ago at the CIA in defense department some years ago.

So Jeremy, you're the perfect person to talk to. Thank you so much for joining me. And, you know, I know you've been in touch with folks at Langley and those in the Intel community. I want to get to that in just a moment. But, of what you've seen and heard and read and heard today, what was your gut reaction to all of this?

JEREMY BASH. MANAGING DIRECTOR, BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGIES: Well, my first reaction is the context in which the program began is really one of the most important facts.

Look, right after 9/11, when we worried about additional attacks, the agency was handed the mission. It said get human intelligence from anybody you can talk to in Al-Qaeda. And so the first detainee really was Abu Zubaydah (ph). He was taken off a roof in Pakistan in late March 2002, put into CIA custody, and the CIA admits that it was wholly unprepared for this mission. And so, it did the best it could and it sought both legal and policy approval from the justice department.

So there are many mistakes that were made and the agency officials will admit that today. But they also want people to understand that the twin towers were lying in a heap of ruin at ground zero. They were worried about additional attacks and they are doing what they thought was necessary to defend the country. And in addition, Brooke, I think it's important.

BALDWIN: Yes.

J. BASH: That at that time, members of Congress were yelling at the agency saying this has been a colossal intelligence failure, get any information you can about Al-Qaeda. Who are they? Whether there are attack plans, how can we stop the next attack? And that context is important.

BALDWIN: No. And I'm glad you bring that up. And now, I'm sitting here searching. I have this quote from, you know, Chairwoman Feinstein essentially say, yes, you know, it was very mindful of those days and weeks directly after the most horrendous thing possible, 9/11. Yet, you know, she points out from her report this wasn't an effective means of acquiring intelligence. Inaccurate claims of effectiveness. Detainees treated brutal and far worse than the CIA represented to policy makers or others.

The list goes, you know, Jeremy, 20 points deep. I would love to hear I would love to hear what intelligence folks are saying about all this.

J. BASH: Well, look. I think they're acknowledging that when they were handed the mission, mistakes were made and that they weren't perfect. But they were doing what was in the interest of protecting the country. And I think that's kind of important because today, literally today out at Langley, we're asking some of the same officers who were responsible for counterterrorism operations back then who are now responsible for getting information from terrorists today and about terrorists and conducting more aggressive operations today. Those same individuals are the ones that we're talking about in this report.

And so, I think they're getting a little bit of whiplash. Like, do you have my back or not? And we better have their back because it's going to be very difficult if in five or seven or ten years from now, we somehow turn around and say, what you were doing in 2014 that we approved, that we authorized, that we funded, that we said was legally OK, somehow we're not OK with it anymore.

Look. I think hindsight is incredibly important. But sometimes it's also perfect, you know. And I believe in oversight. Look, in the 1970s, we struck a big bargain, which is secret oversight by Congress over secret intelligence activities. I worked on Capitol Hill. I strongly believe in oversight.

I also think balance is necessary. These were programs that were ended -- there hasn't been water boarding since 2003. The interrogation program was wound down principally in 2007. Obama bond it in 2009. I think the most important thing --

BALDWIN: But -- I have to jump in. I hear all this. But I keep going back to this date of mid 2006, you talk about all these great, wonderful people who, you know, are there to protect our country who we're so grateful for but where do they get these directors? Ultimately, it's the commander in chief. Ultimately, it is the president of the United States. And when we learn that it wasn't until 2006 that President Bush knew about, you know, these interrogation techniques, I mean, he was kept in the dark for so long.

Here is my question to you. I know you work so closely with the CIA chief at the time. How -- just bigger picture, wondering, how did you go about, Jeremy, making decisions on what to keep from the president, you know, and I need-to-know basis and what to tell him?

J. BASH: No, the president is the commander in chief. The president has access to every piece of information that the intelligence community has. Nothing in my experience has ever been or should be kept from the president. I was obviously not at the agency in 2006.

BALDWIN: Right.

J. BASH: But my understanding is that President Bush has explained that he approved and authorized these certain techniques. His justice department carefully reviewed them. They wrote out OLC, Office of legal counsel, memos approving them. They were briefed to certain members of Congress, not the full intelligence committee.

Look, clearly, there wasn't enough review and scrutiny and transparency in this program from the years 2002 to about 2007. But again, I worry a little bit because I worry about vilifying the officers who we asked to do this job. And ultimately, I think it's the leadership that has to take responsibility if the programs that they set in motion somehow didn't live up to our values.

And I think the most important point is what Senator Feinstein and senator McCain said today is we shouldn't need to resort to those techniques in the future. That's why I think President Obama was right to get rid of them.

BALDWIN: Jeremy Bash, thank you.

New details in to CNN about the injuries suffered by NFL star quarterback Cam Newton. The Carolina panthers star was in a car crash today. We have details on his condition next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are learning a little bit more now about this crash, this accident that sent Carolina panthers quarterback Cam Newton to the hospital this afternoon. Obviously, you are looking at the aftermath here. He suffered nonlife-threatening injuries. The NFL player was driving his truck in Charlotte. And according to eyewitnesses, the Charlotte telling the newspaper there, the Charlotte observers, that a car slammed into his truck from the side and then it was Newton's truck that overturned.

CNN's sports anchor Rachel Nichols is back with me with an update on his condition. How is he doing?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN ANCHOR, UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS: Yes. You know, he is in fair condition in a hospital. And the Panthers have just announced that he has two transverse process fractures that basically means, yes, that basically means that he has two fractures horizontally across his spine. So he doesn't have any more serious injuries than that, of course, the soft tissue injuries, bruising but two fractures to his lower back.

So look, obviously that's not good. However, when you look at these pictures from the crash, it is pretty amazing that he didn't suffer much worse injuries. The driver of the other car also not life- threatening injuries. Power the seat belt, people.

BALDWIN: Amen to that, sister. Thank you for mentioning that. What exactly happened?

NICHOLS: Yes, this crash happened right outside the Panthers' stadium on an overpass of a highway. It's an area that local reporters tell us they've had trouble with stop signs before. So maybe that played a factor here. We don't know. But it did cause a lot of attention in downtown Charlotte, not only because of the all the news helicopters, but if you remember, Cam Newton, Heisman trophy winner, number one overall NFL pick. People were holding their breath. This is the guy whose life has been on camera for most of the last five or ten years. This is no exceptions.

BALDWIN: So in the 60 seconds I have left, what does this mean? I know it's way too early to know definitively when you hear about these kinds of fractures in the rest of the season, any clue?

NICHOLS: Yes. Look, we can go on the fact that Tony Romo, actually, from the Dallas Cowboys had process fractures in his back earlier this season. Now, they had a bye week and he missed a game, then he played.

But every injury is different. We will have to see what cam can do. The panthers are fighting for the NFC south division title. It's going to be hard -- first we want to know he's OK as a person. And then in the coming week, we'll find out what he can do as a football player. But obviously, good news but nothing more significant happened. It couldn't been bad.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness. I love the one little picture that he was flashing his pearly whites.

NICHOLS: Although now we know he had back fractures, should he really have processed on. We don't know.

BALDWIN: Maybe not. Cam we are thinking about you.

Rachel Nichols, thank you very, very much. Turn the picture. Maybe that was more pain, a pain that smiles.

NICHOLS: We will see.

BALDWIN: Who knows? Rachel, thank you.

And thank you so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. We are going to take it to Washington now. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.