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Don Lemon Tonight

Search for Jessica Chambers' Killer; Interview with Jessica Chambers' Sister; Mother Demand Justice; Time Magazine's Person of the Year: Ebola Fighters; The Battle Over Sue, Tyrannosaurus Rex

Aired December 10, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I am Don Lemon.

Tonight the horrific true crime story of a Mississippi teen burned to death. The clue that may crack the case, the dying girl's own words whispered to firefighters desperately trying to save her. I'm going to talk to Jessica Chamber's grieving sister in just a moment.

Plus young black men dying at an alarming rate. Some of them shot by police amid protests, their moms are demanding justice. They're living a nightmare. Losing their sons to police bullets.

Now in the wake of the shooting death of Michael Brown and the chokehold death of Eric Garner, these moms say they are taking actions to save other mothers from losing their sons.

We're going to talk with them live in just a moment as well.

Also the Person of the Year. You've seen "TIME" magazine's selection. But we want to hear who you choose. And why. Is it the peaceful protesters? Roger Goodell, maybe even Kim Kardashian.

Make sure you tweet us using #CNNtonight. Every vote counts. We're going to announce our person of the year at the end of this snow. But I want to begin tonight with the search for a killer in northern Mississippi. Authorities are trying to solve the mystery of the gruesome death of 19-year-old Jessica Chambers, who was burned over most of her body in a car fire.

Barely alive when rescuers arrived, what she said to them, her last words, may help to identify her killer. Jessica's sister will join me live here in just a moment. But first to CNN's Martin Savage now with the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN CHAMBERS, VICTIM'S FATHER: It was hard to breathe. Can't even think about it.

SAVIDGE: A family's anguish over an almost unspeakable crime. Their teenage daughter burned alive.

LISA CHAMBERS, VICTIM'S MOTHER: They have ripped everything I have. SAVIDGE: 8:00 p.m. Saturday night, rural north Mississippi. A 911

call reports a burning car on the county road. Within minutes the volunteer fire department arrives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are expecting they just a normal car fire in fact.

SAVIDGE: Instead a horribly burned teen stumbles from the darkness in this small town. They know her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I realized who the victim was. And it was just shocking.

SAVIDGE: 19-year-old Jessica chambers described by friend as well liked. Outgoing, high school cheerleader. Had been doused with a flammable liquid and set on fire. She would die the next day due to burns covering nearly every inch of her body. But it gets even worse. According to what the family says doctors told them.

B. CHAMBERS: They said that -- as far as they could tell they squirted fluid down her throat. Up her nose. And just burned her inside so bad.

SAVIDGE: Incredibly, despite her suffering, Chambers whispered something to firefighters. Many believe it was the name of her attacker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't really disclose to you that information at this time.

SAVIDGE: Authorities will only tell me what the teen said is a lead. Meanwhile, in this small town, the big question is -- who could have done it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, certainly we're looking at we are looking at murder charges, capital murder charges.

SAVIDGE: Authorities have been retracing where Chambers went that night. This surveillance video shows you stopping at a gas local gas station, where police say she bought a drink and chatted with a few people. Everyone she spoke with has been cleared. The teen's burnt car is being analyzed as is her phone recovered inside. Investigators believe a text or last call could be key. Especially if it links to her last whispered word.

B. CHAMBERS: I want to see justice.

SAVIDGE: And in this part of Mississippi, they believe justice can be here or the hereafter.

L. CHAMBERS: It's God's judgment. God's punishment. It's going to be far more worse than anything that we can do.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SAVIDGE: Such a shocking story, Don. There is a Facebook page actually. It's called Justice for Jessica. It has been liked now 78,000 times. And I believe that is actually more people than lived in the entire county in which Jessica lived. So it just shows you that this story is reaching and touching so many, many people -- Don.

LEMON: It's really just horrific, as you said. It's a vicious, vicious murder.

Does anyone have any theories on what kind of a person -- who could do something like this?

SAVIDGE: You know, that's -- that is a big question in an otherwise very small town, Courtland, where she lives. You know, that is a town, I think, has less than 500 people. Police are working on theories. And they do have a number of them. There is what was whispered which of course right now they don't necessarily seem to imply was a full name. But a lead.

And then there is her cell phone. And that really is where authorities are pinning a lot of their hopes. They have now legally gained access into that telephone. And they're searching such things as what was that last call that came in. And then also, they're checking out to see, you know, texts, and of course, telephones tell you where a person was. And that's very important here. Trying to figure out the timeline.

Where was she when all of this went down before it turned so tragic. So those are the things they're investigating. They've got good lead. They begin again tomorrow morning -- Don.

LEMON: As you said, everyone there, small town. Everyone knows everybody. So how are people reacting?

SAVIDGE: You know, I think it's -- first of all, people are shocked. Not just in that community but in all of Mississippi. I think we're all shocked.

LEMON: Right.

SAVIDGE: At the heinousness of this crime.

LEMON: Yes.

SAVIDGE: One Mississippi official said, you know, we haven't seen anything like this in a long time in Mississippi. But then there is the grandmother of Jessica who has said that she already is willing to forgive who ever carried this terrible crime out. She believes that she would like to see this person come to God in this life. And as a result of that she doesn't want to carry all this hate around in her heart. So she is ready to forgive but before that can begin they have to find whoever is responsible.

LEMON: Amazing. What a big person to do that.

Thank you. Appreciate that, Martin Savidge. SAVIDGE: You're welcome, Don.

LEMON: Jessica's family, of course they're devastated tonight. And I'm joined now by her grieving sister, Amanda Prince.

Amanda, we're really sorry for your loss. How is your family doing?

AMANDA PRINCE, JESSICA CHAMBER'S SISTER: Thank you. They're devastated. We all are. You know, she was 19. We are just shocked. We are lost. We're confused, angry and hurt. Just devastated.

LEMON: We can only imagine. You just heard from Martin Savidge. And he said your mom is willing to forgive whoever did this. Your grandmother, sorry, is willing to forgive whoever did this.

PRINCE: I'm not. But -- I don't know. I'm not.

LEMON: Too soon and it hurts, right?

PRINCE: I mean, I have so many questions. I want to know why. You know, I can't -- I can't forgive what I don't know. I don't really know how to answer that, really.

LEMON: The wait for information must really be excruciating. Have you heard anything from police, authorities, or investigators about any leads?

PRINCE: We haven't heard -- we heard they have leads. But we don't know anything. Any names. We don't know anything like that. We know that who they have talked to. Everyone has been let go, so we have nothing else. No one is in custody. Nothing is official.

LEMON: And from what I've read about this story, that she -- Jessica had no enemies. There was no -- you don't know of anyone who would have some sort of a grudge or vendetta for her?

PRINCE: No one. I mean, she was, she was loved by everybody. She -- she just -- I don't know who could, who would want to do this or why, or --

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

PRINCE: Nothing.

LEMON: Amanda, let's talk about Jessica. Can you tell us about her? She is 19 years old. What was she like?

PRINCE: She was crazy. She was -- she was very athletic. Outgoing. She was just Jessica, she was happy all the time. She just -- she made everyone laugh. She -- I don't know. She lit up the room. She was funny. She was a brat but I can say that. But she was -- gosh, she was a beautiful person. She was, just full of life.

LEMON: I want to show our audience something, Amanda. And it is some surveillance video of Jessica at a gas station about a mile from the crime scene. It was taken 40 minutes before the attack. Do you know what she was doing there? And -- 90 minutes before the attack. Do you know what she was doing there and who she waved to in this video?

PRINCE: No, sir. We don't know anything. She had, you know, called my mom and said that she was going to clean out her car and that she'd be home. And just a little bit. You know, just a little while right after she cleaned her car. And I think that's the last phone call my mom had gotten from her. And I don't think no one knew where she was going. What she was doing. Or -- just, we just, just was going to clean her car.

LEMON: Still can't believe it. I can't imagine when you heard the news. What was -- what went through your head?

PRINCE: I was angry. I didn't believe it. It took me a minute to process. And, you know, I don't live there no more. So I got a phone call. And I can't just jump in my car and go be there. So to get something like that. And then have to wait, you know, an hour, two hours, to find out information that, I actually felt like it was -- forever. I mean, you know a minute felt like hours. So it felt like I waited -- days, for a phone call to, to -- to tell me something. Anything.

Just -- I was just, I was really hurt. You know, I couldn't -- I was helpless. You know -- I am one of her older sisters. And it's kind of my job to be there for her. And I couldn't be.

LEMON: And you are -- obviously you live in Texas and we are waiting for your husband to arrive overseas, from overseas, before you go home, correct? Go to Mississippi?

PRINCE: Yes, yes, sir.

LEMON: Can you tell me about Jessica's plans for the future? What were her plans?

PRINCE: You know last we had talked she wanted to be a nurse. She especially wanted to help people. She also had plans to write a book. She liked to write. And she had plans to write a book to tell a story. To just -- she actually had a lot things she wanted to do. I mean, There were many. She had told me on time she wanted to be a dentist. And she -- more like a fish, you wanted to be a nurse. She wanted to be nurse. She wanted to be an author, she I think probably would have tried anything, tried it all.

LEMON: Amanda Prince, thank you very much. My hearts go out to you and our thoughts are with you and your family.

PRINCE: Thank you.

LEMON: Who would commit such a violent act on a teenage girl?

Joining me now is Judy Ho, she's a clinical and forensic psychologist.

Dr. Ho, this is just horrific. Again, and I say that again. It's a vicious crime. What can you tell me about a killer who has this type of brutality, this type of brutal crime? Who does this? JUDY HO, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, the type of people

that we see that commit these types of murders, Don, are what we commonly refer to as psychopaths. And they tend to have a condition that we call antisocial personality disorder. And these individuals absolutely have no remorse. They don't really have moral development. And oftentimes what we notice in the brains of these individuals is that they have very low reactivity compared to a normal person.

So what that means is they need to do something so incredibly exciting to be able to get the kind of spike in their brain that normal people would get just from eating a good meal or a nice piece of chocolate. And so what we see in these individuals is that they will oftentimes kill for the thrill. And it would not surprise me once they find the killer that this person had actually had a pattern of other crimes already.

And that it's all going to come together in that way because this is how they actually achieve the mood stability that most of us have from doing daily things.

LEMON: Yes, it's such a violent crime. Is this a crime of passion? Is it likely done by someone who knew her or a stranger?

HO: I think it -- mostly in terms of the research what we know is that it's usually not a complete stranger. It's usually an acquaintance or somebody who actually knows this individual. Doesn't mean that they're friends. But there may be already a path that this person knows, that, you know, this Jessica has already been taken so he's actually been following her for a while. That's definitely a possibility here.

And I just worry that perhaps because she has been this person who is pretty well known in the community that somebody may have been watching her and planning for this.

LEMON: Dr. Judy Ho, appreciate it.

When we come right back here on CNN, you've seen the protests across the country. But tonight mothers who've lost their sons in police shootings tell their own emotionally stories. What they're doing to try to save other mothers from the same nightmare.

Plus the battle over the greatest T-REX fossil ever found. I'm going to talk to one of the dinosaur hunters.

And we're choosing our CNN TONIGHT "Person of the Year." Make sure you tweet your vote using the #CNNtonight. And find out who it is at the end of our show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Now I want to turn to the toll of police shootings in this country. Too many young black men dead. Their mothers mourning. Some of them joining me now. Every one of these ladies has a story that is sad and powerful. But three moms are speaking for the group tonight. They are Constance

Malcolm, her 18-year-old son, Ramarley -- Ramarley Graham was shot and killed in his home by a New York police officer. And then there's Colette Flanagan, whose 25-year-old son Clinton Allen was shot seven times by a Dallas police officer. And Jeralynn Blueford, whose 18- year-old son Alan Blueford was shot and killed by police in East Oakland.

Good evening, ladies. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Don.

LEMON: Thank you so much for joining us.

So, Constance, I'm going to start with you. All of you share the same tragedy. Your sons all unarmed, killed by police officers. When you see the stories in the news now, the story about Eric Garner, about Michael Brown, how does it make you feel?

CONSTANCE MALCOLM, MOTHER OF RAMARLEY GRAHAM: Well, it makes me angry because I have been saying for two years when my son was killed, if they don't do something about it, it's going to continue because none of these officers have been held accountable. And it's going to continue to occur if they doesn't do anything about it. So to see it happen, two and half years later, it's a -- you know, it's a tragedy because nobody is trying to hear us.

We've been out here fighting for our sons, being our son's voice, and they're not listening. And we have young men -- young boys, time in and time after getting killed. And nothing has been done.

LEMON: You know, every time I speak to moms who have, you know, sadly had to face this tragedy, I wonder how you guys can even move some days or let alone go on television.

And, Colette, because you founded the Mothers Against Police Brutality, you lost your son Clinton last year, he was just 25 years old. He was unarmed, shot seven times. What are you trying to accomplish?

COLLETTE FLANAGAN, MOTHER OF CLINTON ALLEN: Well, we know that policies within the police department, the training, the deadly force, must be reformed. We know the world has seen the Eric Garner case that it's no longer conjecture that DA's, district attorneys, nationwide are not indicting police officers. The secrecy of grand juries are poisonous. We are never going to get justice unless the grand jury is -- overhaul. So we are seeking reform within the police department, starting with the police departments with the training.

We have to deal with that issue and we have to a stop giving policemen a free get-out-of-jail cards. I fear for my life. So I will take your child's life. And so we have a lot of work to do. And that's what our organization on Walter code pink, us working together diligently to see those changes happen.

LEMON: Geraldine, it was emotional when you spoke at -- at a press conference today, describing the moment that your son Alan was shot. I want to play that for the viewers and then we can talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERALYNN BLUEFORD, MOTHER OF ALAN BLUEFORD: He ran away. He was not under arrest. He had every right to leave whenever he wanted. And that officer chased him down like an animal. Like he was a casualty of war. And after shooting himself in the foot, my son tripped and fell. And he was yelling, "I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything."

And when he failed, the officer stood over him and shot him. And his last word, he said, "Why did you shoot me?"

Today, I'm here to talk to you and demand justice for my Alan and demand justice for us all. \

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jeralynn, does the pain ever go away?

BLUEFORD: The pain will never go away, Don. It is a pain that is so deep and burns so fierce. To have something that you love so much ripped away from you, stolen. I will never get to see his children. Alan was two weeks away from graduation. He was so proud that he accomplished that. And he didn't even get a chance to walk across the stage.

My husband and I accepted his high school diploma on his behalf. And every day I wake up with heartache. But with the heartache I take that pain. And it becomes fire for me to fight because I can't get my Alan back. But I can fight against the injustice of this corrupt system.

And I can fight to make sure that there is no more Alans and no more Clintons, and no more Ramarley and no more Oscars and no more of the sons of these beautiful mothers that have lost their precious babies.

LEMON: Excuse me. In -- in the case of your son, Alan, and of Michael Brown, And Eric Garner, do you think -- what do you think was the overriding factor here? Because so many people have said that it was -- race was the factor. Some people have said that it was excessive force. It could be a combination. But what do you think, Jeralynn, is the bigger issue here? Maybe both. I don't know.

BLUEFORD: It is a combination. The only reason that my son was stopped. It's because of the color of his skin. He was doing nothing wrong. He was profiled. The officer said that he had on a hoodie. He never had a hoodie on. He had a Calvin Klein windbreaker. He says his pant were sagging. Alan did not like to sag. If his pants were too big, he would walk with one hand on his waist to make sure that they wasn't sagged because he didn't want to be portrayed as that in person.

He didn't want to be judged. And it is more importantly the militarization of the police. The police officer in my son's case, Officer Miguel Masso was a veteran of the Iraqi war. When you go to war, you are taught shoot to kill. It's war. That's what you're there.

LEMON: Yes.

BLUEFORD: But when you take the oath, as a police officer. It's to protect and serve. But they didn't used their position to shoot to kill. They don't use any alternative method. They don't try to stop and not -- I mean, they didn't have to choke that young man. And then after he said, hand up. Don't shoot. He said I didn't do anything.

LEMON: So Jeralynn --

BLUEFORD: So it's the combination.

LEMON: Jeralynn, who --

BLUEFORD: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you. Colette Flanagan, thank you. Constance Malcolm, thank you. Valerie Bell, thank you. Darlene Caine, thank you. Donette, Chavez thank you. Dorothy Cobb Eliott, thank you. Marcella, thank you. Wanda Johnson, thank you. And Teresa Sharad (ph), thank you, ladies. I appreciate it.

Best of luck to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

LEMON: Up next, "TIME" magazine names a Person of the Year. It's not just one person who's going to explain that. And we're choosing our very own CNN tonight person of the year. Make sure you tweet us, using hash tag, CNN tonight. Find out who it is at the end of our show tonight. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: "TIME" magazine's 2014 Person of the Year is actually persons of the year. People on the front lines, fighting Ebola are sharing that honor. They join a pantheon of noble figures in history that have been named Person of the year, many of them beloved others vilified.

CNN's Kyung Lah, takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.

CROWD: Don't shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.

CROWD: Don't shoot.

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Ferguson protesters, Vladimir Putin, Taylor Swift, the Ebola fighters, but people who helped change our world this year. Are defining moments of history always shape by the people living it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Giuliani (ph) put your mask on.

LAH: On September 11th, New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani became America's mayor and "TIME" magazine's Person of the year, 2001.

TOM WEBER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR AT TIME: The Person of the year is somebody who drove the news, exerted -- important influence.

LAH: "TIME" magazine has chosen the historical figures you would expect, among them, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Martin Luther King Jr., Pope John Paul II, a yearly tradition that began as an accident.

In 1927, the editors realized Charles Lindbergh, the first solo aviator to cross the Atlantic, was never on a cover that year. He tried to make up the oversight by calling him man of the year. 87 years later, the choices ranged from heroes to villains. Recognizing history is often paved by the contemptible. 1938 cover Adolf Hitler, 1939 and 1942, Soviet Leader Joseph Stalin. In 1979, as Iranian hostage crisis unfolds, "TIME" named the anti American-Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini, as Man of the Year.

The person sometimes isn't one, but a group. 2011, the world rocked by protests. The Arab spring, the occupy movement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The occupy Wall Street hashtag quickly became the most popular topic on twitter.

LAH: American women, the endangered earth, the American soldier, among the groups chosen and memorably, or not, in 2006, you, as in social media, that choice leading to some friendly mocking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do I look? Yes, I am the Man of the Year.

LAH: "TIME" magazine says it will take the jabs history is on their side.

WEBER: I don't think there's any question about the role social media has played. It's only grown since then. And certainly this is a year where we have seen that importance, with, with protests across the country.

LAH: Like in Ferguson, but even the stunning protests couldn't beat the heart of this year's choice, the Ebola fighters. As the influence of magazines diminishes and the internet age, this tradition perseveres, a choice that gives us a snapshot of our year and ourselves.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So did "TIME's" editors make the right choice? What about the protests, against police brutality that are being staged all around this country? Should the protesters be persons of the year? Joining me now to debate this, Ben Ferguson CNN political commentator

and host of the Ben Ferguson show. Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator and Sunny Hostin, CNN legal analyst. So, there we go.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We didn't just let people call ourselves, maybe just worked out for them, you guys...

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Are you sure?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

LEMON: Mel and Ben, you know, don't take offense to that.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

Lemon: Oh, Lordy. Here we go. I'm just gonna go. You all go on and do this. OK. So, the die-ins -- I am so glad we can joke around like that right? But die-ins marches block in traffic in major cities Sunny, of the -- hashtags, like criming -- we've been talking about this earlier, list here I wanna read. #crimingwhilewhite, #blacklivesmatter, professional athletes that are putting on t-shirt -- we're not talking about the violent protest, right? Or the violent, the looters, we're talking about the peaceful protesters.

HOSTIN: Right.

LEMON: Should they have possibly been in the hashtag right, activist. Should they have been people of the year?

HOSTIN: I -- mean no question about it in my mind. When you think about "TIME" magazine's Person of the year, I think there always sorts at the forefront, right? They are -- they usually get it right. I think they got it wrong this time. I mean, the big story is that -- we are in a seminal moment in our community, in our country. In terms of the new civil rights movement. And so, Ebola, yes, of course an important story, but if you look at the number of victims, of, of Ebola, just pales in comparison to -- to this issue that we're talking about, which is, police brutality. We're talking about people using social media...

LEMON: OK.

HOSTIN: To galvanized of movements.

LEMON: We have a number to get through, as you see Marc shaking his head in agreement. Marc on August 7, President Barack Obama told a nation that he authorized air strikes on Iraq, on September 22nd. United States and its allies began air strikes in Syria. And so, you know, he's been our (ph) air strikes at war torn countries. Gas prices are low, the job market is getting better, housing prices are getting better and starts -- should the president be consider for Person of the year?

HILL: Absolutely, not.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: The protesters, the protesters...

LEMON: Ben Ferguson is standing up, dancing right now.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Amen. Amen.

HILL: No, I mean, Sunny is right. Protesters should have gotten this. President Obama, first of all, you don't make him time Person of the Year for being a warmonger. Because -- and not because, you can't be a bad person and get the "TIME" Person of the year. But because he has been a warmonger for six years, there's nothing distinct about this moment. I think there are much more interesting things that have happened over the last year -- I think ISIS, you can be for ISIS being Person of the year.

LEMON: Don't jump ahead and --

HILL: Fair -- I'm just saying...

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: If it does what it -- I'm not saying -- I'm just good, I'm not pro ISIS. I'm just saying Person of the year.

LEMON: Controversial people or persons of the year. They have been named before.

HILL: And I don't think this is a particular...

LEMON: Right.

HILL: Controversial year for President Obama and lastly, I don't want to give him credit for gas prices going down because it's been six years, and it was his fault when gas prices went up.

LEMON: That made him more to do with -- about recruitment then.

HILL: And a lot more to do about that recruitment.

LEMON: All right. Let's talk about that Ben, Sochi...

FERGUSON: Yeah.

LEMON: Ukraine, civilian planes shot down over then, yes, killing 298 people on board. Russia, still under sanctions in the west, oil prices falling worldwide. Vladamir Putin, was on "TIME's" short list. What's your reaction? FERGUSON: Yeah, I think he should have won dummy of the year. I mean, how bad of a guy in a year can you have when you literally say you're not invading a country, when everybody knows you are invading the country. You say that a passenger plane was actually not shut down, when we see the video of the passenger plane being shut down. So, no, I don't think he was man of the year...

LEMON: OK.

FERGUSON: I think he should have been a dummy of the year.

LEMON: All right. Mel, what about as Marc mentioned jumping ahead in the workbook ISIS, lead by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, cause of beheadings, shown online, Hollywood like propaganda videos, put on Youtube. What about -- what about ISIS?

MELL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: Well first of all, there's no way in hell I'm gonna give it to somebody that's doing damage and killing people that are for starters. Secondly, I think one of the things that's interesting is that while the beheadings were certainly captivating, particularly to the western audience when they first started to happen. Cognitive dissonance has set in and people are not paying attention to them the way they did when James Foley was first beheaded, at the end of the summer.

And so, I think it was a very desperate tactic, we're gonna see more of it. They weren't getting the attention that they were getting -- that you would get from a suicide or car bombing, Don. And these sort of brutal, horrific attacks on one person from your country -- tend to draw the media, which is what ISIS wants. But I don't think it is any kind of tactic or any kind of move that, that would -- that means they deserve to be the people of the year.

LEMON: After -- you can do that to the break.

HOSTIN: OK.

LEMON: And remember, everyone was going, "what do you've mean ISIS?" Controversial figures...

HILL: Yes.

LEMON: Have been names for...

HILL: Not an honor.

LEMON: It's not an honor, right? To necessary to do it. So, everyone stick around, stay with me, lots more to discuss. And who will be CNN tonight's Person of the year. Make sure you tweet us, tweet your vote by using #cnntonight. I will reveal the winner at the end of our show. Could it be -- Taylor Swift maybe, no?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: "TIME" magazine honored the brave people who are battling the Ebola virus as their persons of the year. But we're choosing our very own, CNN tonight Person of the year and we're talking about our candidates, with Ben Ferguson, Mel Robbinson -- Mel Robbins, Marc Lamont Hill and Sunny Hostin. OK. So, Ben, back to you -- you live in Dallas? Where Thomas Eric Duncan, Nina Pham and Amber Vinson all became ill from Ebola, Thomas Eric Duncan later died. "TIME" magazine of course named the Ebola fighters, that the doctors and the healthcare worker -- workers, persons of the year. Do they get in -- was that the right choice?

FERGUSON: I -- really do think they got it right on this one. And here's the main reason why. Sanjay said it well, earlier today, when he said, rarely when a doctor goes in and treats someone today, they actually put their own lives at risk personally. And these people went in that room knowing, that they were putting their lives at risk and -- in a weird way. Not in an immediate danger in two weeks down the road type of danger, against the virus that there's no guarantee that if you get it, we'll be able to beat it. And so, what an incredible heroes and men and women of the year to actually put themselves in that situation, it's incredible act of courage to do that.

LEMON: Yeah, and I spoke to -- I spoke to a number of the -- the people who had survived, that the workers who had survived, and they said they would -- do it again.

HILL: Do it again.

LEMON: That's what they do. That's what they do. They...

HILL: Incredible people.

LEMON: Yeah.

HOSTIN: But, that's the thing. I mean, that's what they do. You know I'm married to a surgeon and that's what they do. They save lives. They help people. I think we are talking about the time Person of the year, we should be talking about. Some one that goes beyond the pale, someone goes beyond and I -- think that the women that have come forward, the victims of Bill Cosby.

LEMON: We'll talk about that.

HOSTIN: Why not think about them.

LEMON: Well, not just the Bill Cosby, but the victims of rape.

HOSTIN: Of rape.

LEMON: Of rape, yes.

HOSTIN: Because if you put this...

HILL: Many of whom?

LEMON:

HILL: Who have accused Bill Cosby. HOSTIN: Yeah, well, exactly. That you think about those victims they

had -- victims, they had nothing to gain except perhaps, people coming at them and attacking them personally.

LEMON: Yeah, OK.

HOSTIN: I personally believe all of them. And, and, so, you know, let's talk about people like that...

LEMON: OK.

HOSTIN: They really put themselves out there. Like the protesters, like the victims of rape.

LEMON: Point taken. So now, let's talk about Adam Silver though, the commissioner of the NBA. Quickly, (inaudible) Clippers owner, Donald Sterling after his racist comments went public. Is silver (ph) an example of how to manage a crisis properly, compared to NFL's Roger Goodell, his handling of the Ray Rice controversy on an on shoot, he possibly be the Person of the year.

ROBBINS: Well, you certainly should be considered, I've been giving key notes around the country about this very issue. He schooled the world on what it means to be a leader that is decisive in the middle of a complex and chaotic situation. He was very clear that the NBA does not stand for racism. He wanted sterling out and guess what, that's exactly what happened. Let's contrast that with Goodell, he's not clear about what he wants. The situations still unresolved, Don. And in fact if somebody were to get arrested for domestic violence tonight, does anyone in America know exactly what would happen to that player? The answer is no.

HILL: No.

LEMON: Right.

HOSTIN: That is an example of croppy leadership, Don.

LEMON: I think I -- just actually, hang on here, as we are in the middle of a show. We just actually got -- some information on -- the NFL's personal conduct policy announcement which is being out...

ROBBINS: Correct.

LEMON: Right, as soon as just happen.

ROBBINS: And it's not clear Don.

LEMON: Yeah.

ROBBINS: It's not clear. I'm talking about it tomorrow morning at 6.45 on New Day. It is not clear still, it's just another announcement from Goodell saying, "Well, we gonna do this, we gonna that." But we don't know what's happening with the players and...

HILL: That's my point. That's why he shouldn't be Person of the year. ROBBINS: With Adam Silver.

HILL: That's why he shouldn't be Person of the year.

ROBBINS: Correct.

HILL: He, he looks like, Roger Goodell -- I mean, Adam Silver looks like a hero against back of Roger Goodell.

LEMON: That's something that's not great, right?

HOSTIN: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Who calls you with the N word. I mean, that's not really a high bar.

HOSTIN: Yeah.

HILL: You know what I mean.

LEMON: That's what you are supposed to do.

HILL: That's what you are supposed to do. See, that's what you are supposed to do.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK. But -- you are supposed to do it, but when many people don't do it. So, you somehow --

HILL: I don't know if you should be Person of the Year for firing the guy who calls you with the N word.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All right Marc, calm down. Since you are so all fired up and this is -- what about Taylor Swift then? Album 1989, off the chart, the top selling album this year, only Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey had spent more time at top of the billboard 200 -- she turns 24 on Saturday. What do you think? Person of the year, it does just Spotify, it's like Spotify, I don't care.

HILL: How about that, the best thing you will say about Taylor Swift, she even ain't in the class of Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey. But, -- I will say that she be there by know it.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: You obviously haven't feelings for Mariah Carey video that are going around, it's really about the music.

HILL: National TV to Taylor Swift of the -- sort of Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: You know what? Marc Lamont Hill, I am e-mailing you the video of Mariah Carey.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: At the Christmas tree ceremony of music. It is hideous.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Real people that do real thing, do real thing.

LEMON: Now that Whitney Houston had the best voice. That was many years (ph) of conduct

FERGUSON: You say what. The only -- hold on, the only way that Whitney -- the only way that Taylor Swift wins Person of the year if she has a support group for all the guys that she made songs about, that are made a million dollars on her exes.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I sent out a note to this morning, after our meeting saying is there something about Taylor Swift that I'm not getting everyone was like sales. Because I have --

FERGUSON: Yeah, don't...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I don't get it. I don't get it.

HOSTIN: We need to stop glorifying.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: We don't go music, we go nuts (ph)

LEMON: All right, queen bee. All right, so listen. Let's do a lightning round, quickly here. What do you think?

HILL: Well, I think -- protesters. I got to stay with the protesters.

HOSTIN: Yeah, I think it's a tie between the protesters and the Cosby rape victims.

LEMON: OK. Let's go to the people in the other studio.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Mel Robbins, what do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

ROBBINS: Yes, segregated here.

(LAUGHTER)

ROBBINS: I think that we are being too -- I think we're being too domestic a about this.

LEMON: Yeah.

ROBBINS: I mean, I think it's very inspiring story her in America to look at protesters and the rape survivors coming out, but if you take a look at Ebola on a global scale and the number of people that died...

HOSTIN: The protests are global, Mel.

ROBBINS: Healthcare workers that came over.

LEMON: Good point.

ROBBINS: The healthcare workers that came over, it's a huge story...

LEMON: Good point. I got it.

ROBBINS: And I think that I got it right.

LEMON: I'm running against -- I'm running against the clock here, Ben? Finally?

FERGUSON: I'm gonna buck it a little bit. I think it's the good cops. They've taken a lot of heat lately and there's lot of men and women that are willing to go out and put their lives on the line. Just like these nurses and doctors of Ebola, and I think we forget about how many good people there are in the world that actually were...

HILL: That's their job.

LEMON: But, we are and saying, what is our -- tell him next Tuesday right?

FERGUSON: No, it is easy until you dial 911.

LEMON: We have a town hall on policing next Tuesday. We have police officers, live audience, we'll talk about that. Thank you, guys, very much. We're gonna reveal our CNN Person of the year, just a few minutes here on CNN. And when we come right back, she could have been Person of the year. That was 67 million years ago, sort of -- her name is Sue and she's the world's most complete Tyrannosaurus rex skeleton ever found. Her story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Now, I want to turn to a big story, a really big story about Sue, the largest most complete Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil ever, and the battle that followed her discovery. Sue's story is subject of CNN films, "DINOSAUR 13". And joining me now, one of the scientists from that film, it's Dr.

Phillip Manning, he's the head of the Paleontology Research Group at the University of Manchester and professor of natural history. That is quite a long title and an important one. So, how did you first hear about Sue, the single largest, most complete Tyrannosaurus rex fossil ever found?

PHILLIP MANNING, HEAD OF PALEONTOLOGY RESEARCH GROUP: Good evening, well I think every paleontologist in the world when they heard rumors of a remarkable fossil have been discovered in the badlands of South Dakota it soon trickled down the grapevine that it was something very, very special. It did turn out to be the ultimate T-rex you could have ever wished to have found really.

LEMON: Well, why so special. Why so -- why is this fossil so remarkable?

MANNING: Well, T-rex, you already own to the coca cola of dinosaurs. It's internationally recognized in the world or name. But, you always want to find the best reserve, the largest, the most impressive. And this was one of the most complete T-rexes ever found to science. And it was a big animal as well. So, Sue, she was a very important find, that would illuminate so much on -- probably one of the most famous dinosaurs which we had such fragmentary remains of. So, it was a really important specimen.

LEMON: You know Paleontologist, Peter Larson and his team in South Dakota Black Hills Institute excavated Sue -- that was back in 1990. She was found on private property. And as word spread about this dinosaur fossil finds the dispute with the landowner, a Native American tribe and the federal government, led to Sue's seizure from Larson's lab. So, Sue was sold on the open market. Do you think that was fair?

MANNING: Its' a gobsmackingly complex story, that is beautifully told in this documentary, and -- what is wonderful is that this fossil is still available for members of the public to see it in the field museum in Chicago. So, when you are talking fair or not, I think folks have to look at the documentary. Tomorrow evening.

LEMON: Yeah.

MANNING: And decide from themselves. Because, it is a remarkable -- you couldn't make this story up. And I think all of the people involved with it, went through -- I think, an incredible trial. And it's remarkable how the folks have come out at of the other end, still -- you know, walking and talking and being. I think great advocates for the science of paleontology. I think if anything won from this whole (inaudible) it is the science of paleontology, and it's important -- important even today in the 21st century. So -- yes.

LEMON: Phillip Manning, we thank you. And we -- you know, everyone has been talking the Person of the year. Our word of the year is gobsmacking.

MANNING: No. LEMON: Thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN. We tell our viewers that CNN film presents "DINOSAUR 13" is tomorrow night, 9:00 and 11:00 right here on CNN. Make sure you tune in; it's gonna be incredibly to see.

We're gonna be right back with the announcement of our CNN Tonight Person of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, drum roll. So, who is it? Is it -- were they right? Was it the Ebola? Guys, is it President Obama? Is it Putin? Is it ISIS? Who is it? It is time now to unveil. CNN tonight's Person of the Year -- an actual award.

So, after consulting with everybody, staff, with you, you sent us tweets, and people from all over the country e-mailed us and tweeted us. The CNN tonight Person of the Year award goes to -- the nonviolent protesters. People around the country and around the world, making their voices heard, without resorting to violence. So, and let's hope it stays that way. So again, congratulations.

That's it for us tonight. I'm Don Lemon. I appreciate you watching. See you back here soon. "AC360" starts right now.