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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Discussion of Police Use of Tear Gas on Protesters; Talking with Children about Race; Rocki Slides Hit California Homes

Aired December 12, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: After hearing protesters complaints, the judge in Saint Louis has place a temporary restraining order on police in the region limiting the use of tear gas.

So, joining me now to discuss this Joey Jackson, HLN Legal Analyst and CNN, Legal Analyst Danny Cevallos. Great to have you both with us here. I was looking through this temporary restraining order issued by the judge and it says that there is evidence that the police used smoke canisters and teargas to disperse crowds who were not engage in violent or criminal activity, therefore there ability to engage in lawful speech and assembly is encumbered by law enforcement.

So, basically my question to you here, Danny, is how do police decide - figure out who's the danger and who isn't before they use teargas. How do you really control that?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN, LEGAL ANALYST: You hit right on the issue. And the Supreme Court has said which I think would surprise a lot of people that if you are in a group of protesters and there are a couple bad apples who engage in unlawful activity, the other protesters do not automatically lose their first amendment rights as a result. So, in essence, guilt by association requires showing that those lawful first amendment protesters are doing something to contribute to the unlawfulness.

So, basically, the Supreme Court has imposed upon police, a duty to sit through and decide you are committing a crime, you are not, you are allowed to remain, which raises the question -- I want here what the great Joey Jackson has to say about this.

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: Therefore the case -- is it therefore the case that teargas or any chemical agent is by in essence, a an unlawful, unconstitutional because it does not discriminate between the lawful protesters and the unlawful protesters.

BROWN: Yes, he can do that.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAN ANALYST: Well, Judge Cevallos and I were talking about the issue but, you know, here's how it goes, Pam, you know, it's a difficult job that police have of course, and we have to respect the fact that there out there and they're doing the best that they can under difficult circumstances. However, when you engage in actions that kills the first amendment, because it's a balancing test. I have a right to peacefully assemble, to protest, but to do so on a peaceful way. The police have a right to protect the public's interest, to protect property and the like.

But when you engage in activity and you do it in the manner in which they did, where indiscriminately you're using tear gas as a (inaudible). You're using in a way that your intimidating protester, your killing their right to first amendment, are you going to protest Pam if you go out on the street and know that your going to be, you know socked with canisters of teargas, of course not. So, in the event that you're engaged in some unlawful activity and you want to disperse and you, you know have an opportunity to heed that warning, after that time, if you don't, then tear gas may flow.

However, just to use teargas for purposes of intimidation and purposes of fear cannot be done, so says the judge after a 9-hour hearing, listening to what everyone has to say.

BROWN: And the judge saying that police would have to warn them, "We're going to disperse a tear gas." Once think that wasn't in there that was requested by these protesters, was using teargas as a last resort. That was one thing we didn't see in the restraining order.

Thank you so much Danny Cevallos and Joey Jackson we appreciate it. Well, the shooting in Ferguson and other police incidence have stirred a lot of strong feeling, feelings about law enforcement and about race. So, how are children reacting to these emotional-charged issues? You're going to hear from several of them who sat down with us to talk about it and they're wise beyond their years, let me tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: With the race and police controversies swirling in this country today, we decided to sit down with a group of children and get their take. We wanted to know what they have to say about how we treat each other, the way forward, and how they see the world, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Here's why I'm here, we have problems, we have problems going on today. Are you aware of that there's trouble, we have to figure out. Will you help me figure out some trouble.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CUOMO: All right, good. So, who knows about what's been happening around the country right now? With the grand juries and the police and unarmed black men. You've all heard about this? Well you've been hearing about it a lot.

GABRIEL ADIMOOLAH, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Six months.

CUOMO: You've been hearing about it for six months. So, what did we know Gabriel (ph), what's happened?

ADIMOOLAH: That people (inaudible) see that the police aren't working hard enough to do stuff.

CUOMO: There not working hard enough, help me more, Adrianna.

ADRIANNA DEGUILLARD, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: On the news, there was a black guy and a police man choked him.

CUOMO: And people are angry. Why are they angry, William?

WILLIAM CADET, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: They're angry because not only was he selling illegal cigarettes but they choked him out and when he went to the court, the jury said, it was OK and then let him go.

CUOMO: And is that wrong?

CADET: Really.

CUOMO: Why?

CADET: Because in case it happens again, then they can't just let him go again, they have to (inaudible) before it happens again.

CUOMO: When you say police, are you afraid?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CUOMO: Anybody? Sometimes when you see police your little afraid?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CUOMO: Why?

CADET: I see a lot of bad things happening, not a very good things.

CUOMO: So, the police when you see them, usually something bad is going on?

CADET: Yes.

CUOMO: And what do you think the police are doing there. Are they there to hurt people or they're there to help people? What are they doing there?

CADET: Doing their job, help people.

CUOMO: Your parents ever talked to you about how to be around police?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

CUOMO: Nolan (ph), anybody ever tell you? How to act around police?

NOLAN RAYMOND, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: Yes.

CUOMO: What did they say?

RAYMOND: Well they say to just like be nice and be calm and not do anything wrong.

CUOMO: Nicolette, anybody ever tell you anything like that?

NICOLETTE KOLA, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: No.

CUOMO: No. Nicolette look at Nolan. Describe him for me in three words, give me three words, describe him.

KOLA: he has a sweater, he has a tie and he has a mic.

CUOMO: OK, Gabriel, take a look at Nicolette, describe her in three words.

ADIMOOLAH: She has a little gown, black dress and brown hair.

CUOMO: OK, you did not refer to Nolan as being brown or black of skin? Why not.

KOLA: Because it's like a bad thing to say.

CUOMO: What will you say -- if you we're going help people find me, wouldn't you say what color I was.

KIARA ZARRA, STUDENT OF IMMACULATE CONCEPTION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: I will say he was a white male, tall, brown hair.

CUOMO: Checked.

ZARRA: Blue eyes. Checked (ph).

CUOMO: Thank you. Now, is it bad if you describe me that way?

CADET: If someone says you look black and they just say that, that should be OK but if there making fun of them for their color then that's when the problems start to happen when they see you about the color.

CUOMO: So, I don't judge you by how you look and you don't judge me by how I look. You're supposed to judge me by what? What do you suppose to judge me by, William?

CADET: How you act.

CUOMO: How I act. And if I'm a police officer and I see you, am I suppose you -- what if I said, "I've arrested of a lot of guys who look just like you," is that the right thing for me to do?

CADET: Not yet till at least you give them a chance.

CUOMO: Give them a chance. Now, you're kids, right? You seem smarter than kids that I remember being your age. But, if this is so simple for you, how come the adults aren't getting it right? Kiara?

ZARRA: Because the adult -- some adults don't understand how to be kind to one another because they're going to think they're adults. And since they are older they don't have to listen to the kids. But it ends up somehow that the kids might be right.

CUOMO: The kids might be right. Do you remember in school when they had to teach you, "Hey, Gabriel your skin is kind of brown and Nicolette is kind of white." But you should be the same to each other. Did you remember anybody actually saying that to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CUOMO: So, if nobody had to teach you that, what happens when you get older, Gabriel?

ADIMOOLAH: They usually forget this as they're getting older and stuff like that happens to them and they start to forget stuff.

CADET: If I went over to Norland, I want just go over there and say since she's black, I don't want them. But the color matters nothing to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Great piece from New Day Anchor, Chris Cuomo.

Well, after a decade of guilt, a Texas court clears a young woman's name ruling that GM's defective ignitions which is to blame for her boyfriend death not her. Details on her story, coming up. You won't want to miss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Recently CNN, brought you the story of Candice Anderson, a young woman from Texas who has been racked with guilt for the past decade, believing she was responsible for her boyfriend's death back in 2004. He was killed when her car crashed into a tree.

Ms. Anderson ended up pleading guilty to criminal negligent homicide and making her a convicted felon. Well, this year though, GM recalled Ms. Anderson's car and millions more for ignitions switch defects that so far been tied to 38 deaths, with that number expected to rise.

Well, it came out that GM knew about the defect years earlier when Anderson was pleading guilty but didn't tell her. Well, after our first report, the judge agreed to her hear appeal and now her conviction has been overturned. Her record cleared.

Really, an incredible story by our Poppy Harlow. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you feel free now?

CANDICE ANDERSON, DRIVER OF RECALLED GM CAR CLEARED OF FELONY: I do, I feel like a big weight has been lifted off me. I can walk taller.

HARLOW: After a decade of agony, Candice Anderson is finally free. People in this town called you a murderer for a decade.

ANDERSON: It's a hard thing to get past.

HARLOW: Free from living a nightmare.

ANDERSON: I feel like I was robbed from a part of my life, a 10 year -- I mean 10 years is decade, it's a long time. I feel robbed. A part of my (inaudible) were supposed to be fun and making memories, you know, having a good friend to share it with. And I was just like I'm robbed that...

HARLOW: It's started with a fatal car crash, Candice was behind the wheel when her brand new Saturn Ion slammed into a tree on this East Texas country road in 2004.

ANDERSON: This one right here.

HARLOW: This is the tree you hit?

Her boyfriend, Mikale Erickson was in the passenger seat. He was Candice's first love.

ANDERSON: I was through the windshield on the hood of the car. And then his face was faced down in my lap.

HARLOW: The father of two young girls, Mikale was instantly killed. Candice still bears the scars of that day, her liver lacerated, nearly all of her ribs broken.

Do you have ever moments when you think why did I survive?

ANDERSON: Oh, yes. I felt that way as a whole 10 years.

HARLOW: The police report says neither Candice nor Mikale was wearing a seatbelt. The airbags did not deploy. After the crashed, Xanax is found in Candice's system, she was not prescribed the drug but says she took one pill the night before.

ANDERSON: Do I think I was intoxicated that day? No, I was not intoxicated.

HARLOW: But she was indicted on a felony charge of intoxication manslaughter. She pleaded guilty to criminal negligent homicide and was sentenced to five years probation and fine. She lived each day as a felon.

You could have gone to jail for 20 years? ANDERSON: I think about that all the time. I really do.

HARLOW: But there is now proof that for a decade, General Motors knew about a deadly defect in Candice's car and millions more but kept it a secret, faulty ignition switch causing the engine to stop suddenly while driving disabling the airbags.

And if Candice was prosecuted, GM did nothing to help here. In fact, in 2007, the same year Candice pledged guilty GM did their own internal investigation of her crash, calling it unusual and noted the airbags should have deployed.

ANDERSON: I'm fighting for my justice. I want dedication, I want them to say, you know, I want people know that it was the car and it wasn't me.

HARLOW: In this court house, the same one where she pleaded guilty to criminal negligent homicide, Candice Anderson finally got her justice, the judge placing the blame squarely on General Motors.

Writing in a court opinion, "While Ms. Anderson pled guilty to a crime for which she was not at fault, GM had evidence that would have demonstrated her actual innocence and identified the true culprit and cause of the accident, General Motors."

Candice's conviction overturned she is now a quitted of any fault in the crash that killed Mikale.

What would Mikale say?

ANDERSON: I pictured him rooting us, you know, in the court room and, you know, it's a good feeling to think that he's, you know, had a lot to do with it.

HARLOW: GM would not comment on the judge's opinion, but for the first time in this letter Candice's attorney, General Motors admits it maybe to blame.

Writing, "GM has determined that the crash involving Ms. Anderson is one in which the recall condition may have caused or contributed to the frontal airbag non-deployment in the accident."

Is it enough?

ANDERSON: No. I don't think it's enough. You know, I think they should have been there that day to support me to put in some words before the judge also, I really do.

HARLOW: Have you directly, Candice, heard from General Motors?

ANDERSON: Never. And at this point -- at this point, I don't think I ever will.

HARLOW: So why didn't GM reached out to Candice Anderson when it investigated her crash years ago?

We asked GM's CEO, Mary Barra.

Why didn't GM ever reached out to her?

MARY BARRA. CEO OF GENERAL MOTORS: As you look at on the Valukas report documents that there were opportunities where in this specific situation, a series of mistakes were made over a long period of time and that's why we've taken some of the extraordinarily stuffs (ph).

HARLOW: Do you think -- looking back, do you think someone at GM should have -- when they saw this happen and there was an internal investigation, reached out to Candice Anderson?

BARRA: Again, Poppy, as you look across this, we have, you know, making the right changes that we need to make with the learnings that we've had from the Valukas report. We're working to make sure we're the industry leaders in safety as we move forward, and we've taken steps to do the right thing.

HARLOW: GM is fixing its defective cars and has apologized to victims and their families.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am deeply sorry.

HARLOW: When you come back to the crash site now, being vindicated, knowing this wasn't your fault, what do you think?

ANDERSON: The guilt is definitely lifted. But what happened and the tragedy, of course, is still there. The pain is still real.

HARLOW: And nothing will bring Mikale back.

For the past 10 years, Mikale's mother, Rhonda, couldn't bring herself to lay a headstone for her son. Now, she finally has.

RHONDA ERICKSON: It was like the story of David and Goliath, where we took little slingshot and we threw a rock at a giant. And we won. That's how it felt -- that -- that was all worth it. And we weren't scared and we stood up and we got what we wanted, vindication.

HARLOW: Their fight maybe over, but the Department of Justice investigation into General Motors continues.

ANDERSON: There's someone within General Motors that should be held responsible.

HARLOW: Are you saying that you think individuals at General Motors should stand trial?

ANDERSON: Yes. I do. They didn't have problem sitting by while I was charged and convicted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Candice and Rhonda will accept money from GM's victim compensation fund, but by doing that, they give up their right to sue GM in the future. Candice says that was a very difficult decision to make, but that she just needed to move forward with her life and she plans to use that money to finish nursing school and for her two young daughters.

Poppy Harlow, CNN New York.

BROWN: Excellent reporting by our Poppy Harlow. Thank you, Poppy.

Well hundreds of thousands of people without power and houses covered in mud slides. Check out these live pictures right here from Southern California. Get this, that house that you see right here is covered with mud, nearly up to the roof. We're going to take you there live, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well the west coast has been battered by near hurricane-like conditions, triggering massive mud slides, flooding and throwing thousands into the dark, downed trees killed two people in Oregon.

Let's go right to our Paul Vercammen in Camarillo Springs, California, a town buried in mud. Paul, your live shot really says it all.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed Pam, and it's really a rock slide. I mean rocks, billions and billions of rocks coming down here. At least eight homes severely damaged, perhaps even more as they start to take a count of it. Nobody killed and nobody injured but some harrowing moments early in the morning, in fact a couple -- and elderly couple and their caregiver, at one point, pinned in their house by all these rocks and debris and furniture that sealed them off. The fire department racing on in here and getting them out.

A 125 people were evacuated in this part of Camarillo. This is in a hillside and it's below an area that's suffered from a severe and fast-moving fire that was back in May of 2013. So if you look over this way, you can see where all these rocks came from, up in these hills. The vegetation stripped by that fire, and they had worried for a long time that possibly some rain storms would cause trouble, and indeed it did.

Last night, overnight, the National Weather Service in Oxnard telling me that in just three hours, they had about an inch a half to 2 inches of rain, and that was the recipe for disaster here. You're mixing water with all these rocks in Camarillo Spring and these foothills, and that's what caused all of this, Pam. Just it comes sliding straight down the hill and engulf these homes and there's another cluster of about four homes over there that are also buried. We saw firefighters going through here just a short time ago, making sure that the gas was off of these houses.

Literally, having to crawl through the windows of homes to get inside and take a look, Pam.

BROWN: Just unbelievable. I can't help but be glued to this picture of the mud slide and all these homes buried in it. It's incredible.

Paul Vercammen, thank you so much for bringing that to us. We appreciate it. And thank you so much for watching at home. Wolf starts right now.