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Thousands Participate In Protesting Police Brutality and Racial Profiling; Senate Debates Trillion-Dollar Spending Bill; Storms Pummel California; FBI Investigating Sony Pictures Hack

Aired December 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: And thank you for spending part of your Saturday with us. I'm Ana Cabrera here in Atlanta.

And the next hour of NEWSROOM begins right now with my friend, Poppy Harlow, in New York. Have a great weekend.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you live from New York this afternoon.

Across the country today, people are gathering, combining their voices and raising them in hopes of triggering change in America. This was the scene in Boston earlier today, protesters clashing with police officers. Some of them are being separated from the crowd. Some of them are arrested. Similar marches are going on right now right here in New York City.

Also, in the nation's capital, they are deciding that they are going to put on their own call to action. And they are dedicating this to the families Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and Trayvon Martin, all of whom unarmed died after confrontations mostly with police officers. A short time ago, members of all of their families stood on stage at the same stage in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: It's just so overwhelming to see all of you who have come to stand with us today. I mean, look at the masses. Black, white, all races, all religions. This is just a great moment. This is a history making moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's right.

CARR: And you know, we need to stand like this at all times. And you know, our sons, you know, they may not be here in body, but they are here with us in each and every one of you. You brought them here today.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: A sea of people. And they don't see any to make a change in it. I don't know what we got to do. Thank you for having my back.

SAMARIA RICE, TAMIR RICE'S MOTHER: My son was 12 years old, just a baby. A baby. My baby, the youngest out of four. And he is here with me right now. And this is what he would want me to do. I want to thank the nation and the world for the support. Because that's the only way I'm standing up right now. That's the only way.

SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN'S MOTHER: I don't have to tell one of these mothers up here what they are going through, because they know. I don't have to tell not one single African-American about racial profiling, because you guys know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

FULTON: So what I challenge you to do is talk to somebody that does not know. Talk to somebody and make somebody else knowledgeable and make somebody else aware and educate somebody else about what you are going through. Because as long as we talk to ourselves, we are going to say in our same circles. We got to step out of that circle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, let me take you now straight to our Nick Valencia who joins us in Washington, D.C.

Nick, what we just saw is we heard from the four mothers there speaking. We saw a big protest gathering. Also in Boston, some of it getting physical between protesters and police. But is it pretty peaceful there in Washington?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these demonstrators, Poppy, were hanging on every word of those that were speaking. They just wrapped up this so-called justice for all rally here in Washington, D.C. where it's safe to say that thousands turned out. I'm joined by one of those demonstrator. What's your name?

ALI WHITE, DEMONSTRATOR: Ali White.

VALENCIA: Ali, what brought you out here today?

WHITE: Today, my family brought me out here today. I made it a better life for them. I'm here for my son. My son is Caden and in the belly is Cameron. I'm here for them. I want to make sure they get a fair shake in life. And not -- they don't have one bad bone in their body right now. They will never have a bad bone in their body. I'm going to make sure of it. I just want them to have a fair shake. They shouldn't have to walk another different bridge than everybody else has to walk. That's why I'm here. I'm here for my charity. My charity is her for kids that lost loved ones in their life.

VALENCIA: I think a lot of people share that same sort of sentiment. Let's move through the crowd, OK. Some more of the demonstrators.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Black lives matter.

VALENCIA: You came out today. You told me earlier that you had a police officer as a father. Is that right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.

VALENCIA: What do you make of this? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really important to me. I mean, as my dad

being a cop, you know, it's kind of -- it's hard to see his -- I mean, it's easy to see his side. And like, I was trying to explain, this is really important. I need to go out and support, you know, the cause and know that not all cops are bad. But this is -- the course that they take is -- it's not OK.

VALENCIA: And that's a message that has been repeated throughout the demonstrators that we have spoken to, Poppy. For some, yes, it's about race. There's a lot of people out here that feel that justice is different for black people. Others, though, they really emphasize that this is about excessive force.

This is not a rally against police officers. I was told by one demonstrator. This is a rally against bad police officers. And they want to draw attention to that -- Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, Nick Valencia. Thanks for reporting. Interesting to hear the perspectives on the ground there. We appreciate it.

Let me take you now here to New York City. Our Alexandra Field is live for us. Look at those aerial as you watch hundreds of people march together in New York City.

Alex, what's the message that you are hearing and also the action that people are asking for?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What you are hearing and I don't know if you can hear it right now, Poppy, is this group that's chanting, "don't shoot! Don't shoot!" (INAUDIBLE) and they have been walking up Fifth Avenue and you hear saying that.

You can see we are practically walking at a crawl because there are so many people right now who have flooded out of Washington square park. They are going to do this walk a couple miles. We are going to head north then wrap around the south and go down to One police plaza to the police headquarters here in New York City

And obviously, this was certainly designed. That's the place that they want to end up at symbolically, because this rally for a lot of these people is about the police and how they are policed in their communities. That's what people are talking about. Who polices the police? How are (INAUDIBLE) these police?

They are calling for couple of things. One, one of the messages of this rally that people want to see Officer Daniel Pantaleo fired. He is the officer who was involved in the chokehold death of Eric Garner where on Staten Island.

They are also saying that they want to see independent prosecutors called in when there are cases of police misconduct. They are also saying that they want to have officers' named released within 48 hours after an officer-involved shooting.

So these are just a couple of items that they sort of enumerating when you talk to crowd here. But this is a really broad and diverse group. So the concerns are actually extremely broad. People are talking about a number of different things. You can see a sign over here that says not one more. Another sign with a gentleman, black lives matter. This is something we have been seeing, you know, for days if not weeks here in New York City across the country, this rally call, that this cry started as a hash tag. It has become an activist group with chapters across the country.

Right now they are saying no peace. Some people are really coming together. They think that they can affect some sort of change not just by capturing national attention but by also having an opportunity like this to get different groups together, Poppy. And that's what we have seen here. A lot of young people coming together to try and talk and organize about how to move forward. How to affect change. How to affect reform within police departments across the country.

HARLOW: And Alex, as you have been talking to us, we have been watching the aerial shots of the hundreds of people marching up what is usually a traffic-filled fifth avenue in New York city, it is stunning to see but really pretty much all peaceful voicing their feelings, their concerns and demanding action.

Earlier today the son of Dr. Martin Luther King Junior appeared right here on CNN. And we wanted to know if he, his father were alive, how the father of the American civil rights movement would approach this currently nationwide. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN LUTHER KING III, OLDEST SON OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: He would also have to raise the issue not just of police brutality and misconduct, but brutality and misconduct within our own communities. I think he would raise that issue. Because he always talked about loving each other, sharing, caring, lifting each other up. All of that I think must be discussed while the nation's attention is galvanized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Dr. Martin Luther King's son there.

Well, the fatal shooting of the 12-year-old boy, Tamir Rice, last month by Cleveland police has been ruled now a homicide. This ruling came down from the medical examiner's office. And it means that the boy's death was not from natural causes or suicide. It does not assign blame here or make comment as to whether the killing constitutes a crime.

The ruling comes almost a month after the officer mistook Rice's toy air gun for a real gun. That officer is now on paid leave. The investigation is ongoing. But this is just one of several deaths that have sparked huge debates about racial injustice across this country.

For the first time last night, the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric garner and Tamir Rice all sat down together with our Anderson Cooper to talk about just that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: There's audio that has been released of Tamir's sister screaming, they killed my baby brother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They killed my baby brother!

RICE: She was actually in the police car looking at her brother just bleeding there. And nobody is doing anything.

COOPER: As a mom, do you -- I mean, a video was released. Is that something you watch as a mother?

RICE: Yes. I watched it. I had to watch it. I'm the one that released the video. They had to get permission from me to release the video.

HARLOW: Why did you want people to see that video?

RICE: I think it's very important that the world knows what's going on with my son. He's only 12.

COOPER: Gwen, just hearing this is hard for you?

CARR: Yes. This is hard. A 12-year-old, not even a teenager. That's horrible. For a mother to see her child laying there dead in the street. I know that was unbearable.

COOPER: Sybrina, I remember early on you and I met and we were talking about your son, about Trayvon Martin. And one of the things you felt very strongly about was that immediately authorities, police were trying to paint a picture of who he was and paint a negative picture of who he was. Is that something you see happen to all these moms?

FULTON: I notice that they blame the victim. And a lot of time that gives people a kind of ease and it kind of justifies why it was done. Regardless of what these kids were doing or even what Mr. Garner was doing, it's minor. Those are minor things that they were doing. And it should not have cost them their lives.

CARR: OK. He did sell loose cigarettes. But he wasn't selling them that day. He was just -- he broke up a fight just minutes before -- that's why the police was called, because someone was fighting and he was breaking it up. And -- but when the police came, they looked past the fight and went straight for him. So, you know, they were -- why would they do that?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right, you are going to hear more of that interview that Anderson Cooper had with those four mothers in our next hour right here on CNN as we continue to monitor those live, big marches across the city.

But coming up next on the program, how would you react if you suddenly found yourself in a tornado like this one? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the (bleep)? God (bleep).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Yes. That happened in Los Angeles. We will bring you a report on that and much more video straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. You are looking at live pictures right now from New York City. One in aerial in shot, one in ground shot of a huge protest. It has been dubbed the millions march. This was organized. And you have people from all different racial backgrounds, all different ages marching in New York City, making their voices heard. Many of them marching following the non-indictment of two police officers in the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. More on that straight ahead here in the Newsroom.

But now we have to bring you this report. Because when you think of places where a tornado might hit, you are not going to think of Los Angeles. But that is exactly what happened yesterday as video captured by an L.A. resident shows. You've got to see this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the (bleep). God (bleep). Holy (bleep). Holy (bleep). What the (bleep)? Look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Yes. And the national weather service says this was actually a fairly weak tornado. The winds between 65 and 85 miles an hour. It was just one small part of a huge storm that slammed the west coast.

Stephanie Elam reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you look at the amount of rock that came off the mountainside into this community, it's astounding. We are standing right at the roof level of the homes. It's completely unbelievable that no one was hurt.

Two inches of rain in just three hours pelting southern California. In the heart of the city, a swift water rescue on the Los Angeles river.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let he go. They are going to pull her in.

ELAM: From the rising and rapidly moving current, first responders pulled two people clinging to trees to safety, including this woman. Other parts of the Los Angeles area left ravaged by recent wildfires also getting doused with more water than the baked, scarred land could handle. Crews began working to clean up the mud and debris in (INAUDIBLE)

these homes and blocking some streets, even as the rain was still falling. In Camario (ph) spring, an area charred by wildfire in 2013, the downpour was far more punishing sending mud and tons of rocks cascading down on these homes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a lot of rock to move here. It's almost like a quarry. It's just amazing to look at.

ELAM: The damage so intense, officials deemed ten homes uninhabitable. But remarkably, no reports of injuries.

CINDY WARGO, AREA RESIDENT: There was a lot of rock.

ELAM: Cindy Wargo came here to check on her mother who was safe. But she's still heartbroken for these residents.

WARGO: These are a lot of elderly people. You know, this is their retirement community. And you know, this is where they put their money in.

ELAM: And to add insult to injury, more rain is expected at the beginning of the week, something drought-stricken California desperately needs. But for the residents who live here, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

Stephanie Elam, CNN, Camario (ph) springs, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Really unbelievable pictures. Stephanie Elam, thanks for that report.

Coming up next, he served his country, this country in Afghanistan. But after he came home, he discovered a new way to serve. We will show you how that made him CNN's hero of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, the 2014 CNN hero of the year knows something about staying connected. After serving in Afghanistan, he set out reuniting soldiers with the animals that they had come to love during their service.

Our Anderson Cooper sat down with Pen Farthing just moments after he won hero of the year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Pen, congratulations. You just been name CNN hero of the year. Were you surprised?

PEN FARTHING, 2014 CNN HERO: Surprised is an understatement. I'm absolutely amazed. This is just such an honor. And I just feel so proud of everybody involved. It's just amazing.

COOPER: Tell me about the idea. I mean, when did you first come up with the idea for this organization?

FARTHING: I was in a supermarket when I finished my tour. And I was like -- I was getting molded (ph) and shot at like two days ago and now we're shopping. What did I leave behind? And you just can't forget about it. And I was felt I wanted to do something more.

COOPER: Was the idea, and usually just to reunite soldiers with animals they had met?

FARTHING: Yes. You would come in off patrol and didn't matter how bad the patrol had gone, this little dog, with its nose stump it out (ph), was like wagging away. And he was happy to see me. Now, you just (INAUDIBLE) in some place, it is just totally crazy.

COOPER: Bringing an animal back that they met while there, I mean, it helps with their transition coming home, too.

FARTHING: Wives who come to us often said, well, you know, my husband come back from Afghanistan, there was a little bit of him he didn't bring back. And you know had sat and I have looked at him. He's not kind of responding. Then he would get up and take the dog out for a walk and then when he comes back he's the old guy I used to know.

COOPER: Do you know what you will do with the money? I mean, it was $25,000. Now you are getting an additional $100,000.

FARTHING: Over 1,000 Afghan kids die too just from rabies. They have bitten by a stray dog. Within 24 hours from being bitten, you need to be vaccinated, otherwise that's it. We are trying to humanely control the stray dog population. So this $100,000 is going to go a long way helping Afghan kids to actually avoid being bitten by a rabid dog in the first place.

COOPER: Well, congratulations.

FARTHING: Thank you so much. This is absolutely amazing. Thank you CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: And thank you, Pen Farthing, for your service.

Let me bring you some more live pictures of the marches as we watch them. Both shots of New York city. The aerial shot shows you fifth avenue, a huge busy traffic street here in New York city filled with protesters.

Also, on the other side of your screen, you see a ground shot. These are people of all ages, all races, coming together here on this pretty chilly December day to make their voices heard, coming out just weeks after the non-indictment of two white police officers in the deaths of two unarmed black men, Eric Garner and Michael Brown, also the police killing the 12-year-old in Cleveland who was wielding a toy gun. People making their voices heard. We will continue to cover this on CNN throughout the evening for you. Also, this story that keeps unfolding. Sony, facing a movie studio's

worst nightmare. Its secrets exposed on the Internet racially charge emails, celebrity bashing, and now possibly under paying one of Hollywood's biggest stars because she's a woman. What does our panel think about it? This is going to be a great debate coming up. Does Hollywood have its own secret war on women? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hello and welcome. I'm Sunny Hostin joined today by my good friends, Margaret Hoover, Sally Kohn and Mel Robbins.

Well, first off, Sony Pictures finding its dirty laundry all over the Internet. Among the secrets exposed by a huge computer hack, racist email sent by the studio chief making fun of, guess who, our president, President Obama.

And this little nugget in American hustle, the movie the biggest star actress Jennifer Lawrence was paid less than all of her male co-stars, even though she's the biggest star. Unbelievable.

So what does it all mean? Is the Sony leak exposing the dirty little secrets that none of us want to talk about at cocktail parties?

So Mel, starting with you. When you heard about this, what did you think?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR/LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think you should pour that glass of water over me because I was so freaking pissed off that I was literally like having a fire attack hotter than the menopause flashes that I get.

Look. If there's any woman that deserves, to not only make as much as the men that she is working with but make more, it's J-Law. First of all, she's a three-time Oscar nominee, a one-time Oscar winner for the movie she put Bradley Cooper, her co-star, on the map for. "Silver lining playbook." She also is responsible for a $150 million open with "Hunger Games" and the fourth largest open in movie history with "Catching Fire." And if, by the way, was all before she signed the contract for this movie. It's so -- it's discouraging.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I love that you pointed out that she put Bradley Cooper on the map in Hollywood, right? And so we find out, if I'm getting this right, that in terms of basically royalties, profit coming off this film, Bradley Cooper and other guys are getting nine percent. Jennifer Lawrence was getting seven percent.

Funny thing, I did the math, that's the 77 percent wage gap that we experience as women across the country on average. Just, I mean, come on.

HOSTIN: So it's really happening. It's really, really happening.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And it's no surprise to the four of us that there is a disparity in wages for men and women across the country. We are fired up about this. but we were fired up about this beforehand.

My curiosity is because Hollywood now has been exposed, right? Celebrities are on the line now. Sometimes it takes ordinary Americans celebrity appeal in order to engage in an issue. And my hope is that Jennifer Lawrence and some of the celebrities may become poster children or advocates for equal pay for equal work. This is an opportunity for celebrities to galvanize support across the country.

HOSTIN: You would think we should be hearing from Jennifer Lawrence. And also, she was represented, right? And so, you would think --

ROBBINS: She has an agent. First of all, Jennifer Lawrence, fire your agent now. Because he knew and he -- you are represented by a man who knew most likely what the other guys were getting paid. And so, that's super discouraging. Because this is a woman with a manager, with a publicist, with one of the biggest agents in freaking Hollywood. And she is being represented in a way where the studio that's run by a woman all look -- who the hell is Jerry Renner, anyway?

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: But come on, can you name one movie the guy set in?

KOHN: And also, look, I mean --

HOSTIN: I can't.

HOSTIN: But the bottom line is, ladies, I mean, Sally, what does that mean for the everyday women? What does that mean for us? What does that mean for folks that are working and toiling all around the country.

KOHN: Absolutely screwed. I mean, if Jennifer Lawrence can get paid 77 percent less than her co-star -- her male co-stars when she's such a big star with an army of representation looking over contracts and presumably knowing the industry standard and sort of all that, imagine ordinary women, average women when they go to negotiate for a raise or a salary or a job, by themselves, being subject to all this. I mean, it just makes you think if it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: My take away was what if she were a black woman. Because my God, they were making racist jokes as well. That really struck me. I'm thinking, wow. So when you look at the folks that are making the movies, the movie industry is very responsible for the images that are all across our culture. If they themselves are making racist jokes and they are saying they are racially insensitive, I say, no. They are racist. What does that mean for people in the African-American community? Because bottom line is, there's no diversity up there. And if this is what they are really thinking about us, wow. HOOVER: You know, it gives fuel to the fire for people who are sick

of Hollywood being sanctimonious and (INAUDIBLE) to us. Because too often, they are the ones who are telling Americans how to live their lives and what their values should be. And it turns out behind closed doors, they are as bad or worse than everybody else.

KOHN: Or worse.

HOSTIN: If it's happening in Hollywood, it's easier to believe them that it's happening all over the world like in our police force, right? And at work.

So please, tweet us your thoughts and comments. We love reading them. Maybe we will read some of them on air.

And coming up next, so the ugly accusations against Bill Cosby. Well, they just won't go away. Even die-hard Cosby fans are starting to ask, is it time to boycott the man who was once America's favorite comedian? That's coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOOVER: Welcome back. I'm Margaret Hoover. And I'm back here with Sally, Mel, and Sunny.

Another week and another sordid accusation against Bill Cosby. And this one is different. The accuser is an icon from the world of fashion, Beverly Johnson. The first black woman to appear on the cover of "Vogue" magazine. She spoke to CNN about why she came forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEVERLY JOHNSON, FORMER SUPERMODEL: I felt he needed to know that as women, we just weren't going to just, you know, stand by and let him get away with what he thought he was going to get away with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOOVER: Of course, Bill Cosby has never been convicted of anything. But all of this has a lot of us asking, what is it time to stop watching the show that made Bill Cosby famous? This week our friend Sally wrote this.

At the same time, turning off the shows seems to easy. It is not unlike the way we turn away from this comfort with rape and rape victim. Maybe it is better if we squirm with the ugly picture for awhile.

Sunny, I want to start with you on this one. When is it time for you to turn the Cosby show off?

HOSTIN: It's time for me personally. I mean, I speak that way. I send my message that way. I don't want (INAUDIBLE) film. I love Woody Allen movies. I will never watch another Woody Allen movie and have not since the accusations came forward. And so, I think we have to send a message that we will not tolerate

this from people that we are supposed to be pumping up. Bottom line, you cannot separate the art from the artist. I think they are one in the same. And if Bill Cosby is a serial rapist, I am not putting money into his pocket by continuing to watch the show. You speak with your pocket.

HOOVER: Mel, I wonder if you have a different voice. A lot of people feel like the art is the art and the artist is the artist. And he contributes in a way in this country to race relations in the 1980s. And that shouldn't take away from what he is done.

ROBBINS: Well, that's not why I think they should keep it on air. I think that if NBC or if TVland of Netflix wants to buy and air it, we have a free market system. And if people in this country really feel entertained by watching a serial rapist pretend to be America's favorite dad, then they should be able to watch it. And you know, let the public decide. I don't think anybody is going to feel comfortable watching "the Cosby Show" knowing that there has been a little parade of women that have come forward.

HOSTIN: You now, I got to disagree with you. Because the bottom line is, all the tweets I am getting, I'm still getting people saying, there are no witnesses. We don't know really know this happened. I mean, how many women does it take to come forward to say this happened to me too? I believe every single one of them.

KOHN: Also, to be clear, look, it was undisputed that Chris Brown, the R&B star hit Rihanna. And after he did so, sales for his album were better and his album before that happened. So, you know, I think and I wrote this in the piece, that one of the perverse realities of "the Cosby Show" now is we thought it some portrayed this real everyday next door kind of family. And now, we think these revelations are in contrast with that, maybe sadly they are not.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: Serial rapists are the guy next door.

ROBBINS: Well, if you look at any of the people that have been in the news recently, whether it's the guy that kidnapped and killed Hannah Graham, and how he has been linked to at least two other deaths, and they think many more, that guy, everybody described him as like the most wonderful guy. Look at the guy in Penn State, Sandusky, running a --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: And every one of the victim also said that Cosby lured them in by that personality that we all saw in "the Cosby Show."

HOOVER: So maybe in the court of public opinion, we let this play out in the marketplace. You are going to make your own decisions. But there's also court. And you were talking to a litigator. In Massachusetts, for example, when you have the slate of awful sexual abuse within the catholic church, Massachusetts changed its law and change its statute of limitations.

ROBBINS: Yes, they increased that the 32 years after the age of 18 --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: There should be no statute of limitations. If you can bring a case and you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, there's no reason as far as I'm concerned, why it should limit a victim's ability to bring a case or complaint to court.

HOSTIN: I think that's true. I mean, I prosecuted sex crimes. And I know that the longer it takes to bring those prosecutions forward certainly it's more difficult. But there is a trend, especially with child sex crimes, that the statute of limitations are either just abolished or they are made longer. But I think it should apply across the board. You know, we know that a lot of women who suffer from sexual abuse do not come forward. Sometimes it takes years for them to have the courage to come forward. And we need to support those women by changing our law to support them.

ROBBINS: I agree.

HOOVER: There's a uniform point of view from the panel. What do you think? Tweet us your thoughts on this next story.

And the torture report released this week by Senator Dianne Feinstein. Plenty of ugly details about what American government did to detainees in captivity. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Stripped naked, diapered, physically struck and put in various painful stress positions for long periods of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBBINS: Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins. Margaret, Sally and Sunny and I are talking about this week's release of the senate torture report. Tweet us your reaction. Because you know what, there were lots of people who were horrified by the report. But there are plenty of folks in Washington defending the use of torture. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're fortunate to have men and women who work hard at the CIA serving on our behalf. These are patriots.

MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I can't in my heart of hearts wish that we didn't have to do this. But we did have a duty.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What are we supposed to do, kiss him on both cheeks? BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: This report says it's not successful.

CHENEY: The report is full of crap.

BAIER: You are on cable.

CHENEY: That's OK.

JOHN RIZZO, FORMER CIA GENERAL COUNSEL: I did not believe there was proof. They were tortured. And I do not believe it today. They were harsh. They were brutal. But they did not, in my view, cross the legal line.

JOHN YOO, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Many reasonable Americans, if they were told about the methods in the context of 9/11, I think they would say many of those are reasonable under the circumstances and don't rise to the level of torture.

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have concerns about the report primarily because of the conclusion that in fact these techniques did not lead to any actionable intelligence. They testified under oath that in fact these techniques did provide actual intelligence and they were effective.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBBINS: All right. So the opinions are all over the map. And it begs the question that everyone is debating around America. Is the use of torture ever OK? Sally?

KOHN: No. I mean, I have morally always thought it is wrong. I want to be clear. I don't think our country is great because of what we believe. I think we're great because of how we act. That we have to always act in a good way. So I've always thought it was wrong.

Now we also know it's useless. It didn't work. It didn't produce any actionable intelligence. John Brennan said whether it does or doesn't is unknowable. Yes, actually, it is knowable. We got a report. It says so. It didn't work. And it's wrong.

HOOVER: Yes. It's interesting to me. I was in the Bush administration. I worked for President Bush. And remember, when some of these allegations were first coming out, you know, the chief deputies of the administration spokes over in Washington coming out and saying, we do not believe in torture, we do not support torture.

So now, we are getting to leave us, was this actually torture? People are back paddling saying, well these are harsh interrogation tactics. That this doesn't constitute torture. Look, as a matter of principal, I do not believe the United States as a matter of policy should support torture. N one of us believe that.

The question I think for Americans as we think this through is, was there actionable -- actually actionable intelligence that was derived from any of these techniques?

And Sally, to your point -- I know you want to respond to that. this federal intelligence report clearly said they were not.

KOHN: OK. But here is the thing. First of all, and I nerve understood this, which is, we just like well, even if it said that there was, there is evidence. It did work. Government said so. Like we now know that the CIA misled Congress all this time.

What I have never understood is why conservatives are not more skeptical of our government's behavior abroad. (INAUDIBLE) conservatives outraged that the IRS has guns. But somehow we are comfortable with the CIA having black sites?

HOOVER: Look. There is, I think, a rift in the Republican party and the conservative movement. You see this along the lines of the Dick Cheney camp and the Rand Paul camp, right? People who are skeptical at any sort of big government, we talk about this military defense complex, industrial complex. That was Eisenhower's quote. Well, there is an intelligence community bureaucracy because of the secrecy and because of its large just unaccountable.

ROBBINS: Here is the thing. You brought up the rift between the Republican party. And the thing that I noticed is that McCain was the only Republican who actually supported the report and he is the only Republican who has been tortured. And so, and also, there has been a huge uptick in public support for, Margaret, for your --

HOSTIN: And I got to tell you guys, ladies, I think we are sort of playing hide the ball with the topic here. The topic is whether or not there was torture, right? Because Margaret, you said something like some Americans don't believe there was torture. I mean, how can a humus enema not be considered torture?

HOOVER: Well, you are the lawyer so you can legally ease that and that is what I think defense department attorneys have done.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: Was that torture or not?

ROBBINS: Listen. Nobody is saying it wasn't torture. What we are actually talking about is whether or not there are specific instances where torture is OK because 52 percent of Americans and that has been an increase since 2005 agree that it is.

So Margaret, why is it increasing? Why do you think the support is increasing?

HOOVER: I think it is increasing because Americans are seeing You Tube videos of American journalists being beheaded by really bad guys that run a size of cyber territory greater than the state of Indiana that have really, really good funding, that has declared that they want America over. And so, Americans think in various -- let's be clear about the polling stat. The polling is from Pew research center and the also from AP. And over the course of the lack, Seven-day ear (ph) increase in support for torture techniques under certain circumstances whether clear actual intelligence that could be gained from an asset. Americans are OK with it. And that is what the polling says. And

that is why I think this intelligence report didn't come out until after the election. I think ultimately, this isn't a controversial political issue.

HOSTIN: That is so unbelievable to me that any American would think that --

ROBBINS: Fifty-two percent of us is.

HOSTIN: That is so un-American. And I think what is so frustrating at least for me is that it seems to be stemming from fear. When is it OK to act from fear and anger and emotion?

ROBBINS: In response to 9/11 when we authorized much larger jurisdictions to be able to investigate, to be able to detain, to be able to interrogate. And the patriot act authorized it out of fear.

HOSTIN: And that was wrong. And let me also say this. I think it is about accountability. And what was sickening to me was that I heard so many people saying well, no, of course, no one is going to be held accountable for it. And so, what other countries are talking about is because the bottom line is they do it, too and they are worse.

KOHN: Really? Is that what we are as a country?

HOOVER: Sunny, you absolutely cannot put us, make a moral equivalence argument. Because I do think we have an incredible degree of moral clarity that we have transparency and we can air our dirty laundry in public and that does us actually make us better.

HOSTIN: So it makes us better because --

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Do you see Iran or China or Russia admitting what they are doing? Because you know what, I'm not saying it is good to act like an animal, I'm not. But what I am saying is moral clarity to be able to air your dirty laundry in public does make America better.

ROBBINS: Well, you know, we represent the country because there are some of us on one side basically saying, hey, look, we are not saying we don't believe in the torture. But I understand why there are 52 percent of Americans saying that hey, if it leads to actionable intelligence.

KOHN: But the problem is you can justify anything that way.

ROBBINS: That's true.

KOHN: Like we were told at this. And incidentally, this whole time we have been told by the CIA in the case of getting bin Laden. And now we find out --

HOOVER: I say open up all the documents. Let's get all the documents out there. Let's go transparency. (CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: I just don't think it makes us better that we are willing to admit to doing horrible things to people.

KOHN: All right.

So, also, I do not trust this, they are bad so they must have done something wrong and they deserve what they had coming rational which is the same we hear from the CIA as we hear from police in the case like Michael Brown. And right now, thousands of Americans are marching in New York and Washington and across the country demanding justice system that applies the same to everybody and honors our values. And we want you to know that our hearts are out there marching with them.

Plus tweet us your comments. Poppy Harlow is up next.

Before we go a story, I know Poppy loves, discovery that turn stunned scientists on the complete T-Rex fossil, the most complete one ever found and then lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Took me to this big cliff and said take a look. I looked at it and I said is that T-Rex? He said yes. And I think it's all here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't started digging or haven't moved anything around yet. We have just been looking at it and taking some pictures and trying to figure out how to proceed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Hi, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow, live in New York this afternoon. Thanks for joining me here.

You are looking at our nation's capital where we have big news, finally, a deal has been reached in the Senate. To get the details let's go straight to Erin McPike as she joins us from Washington.