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U.S. Marshals Join Manhunt For Escaped Prisoner in Alabama; Dick Cheney Staunchly Defends CIA's Enhanced Interrogation Program; Protesters Call For End To Police Killings; North Carolina Family Says Son Was Lynched; Steenkamp's Mom Discusses Pistorius Verdict

Aired December 14, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Right now inside the Ferguson grand jury. Witnesses lied, changed their stories. What happened behind closed doors that may have led to no indictment of Officer Darren Wilson in the Michael Brown shooting case?

And manhunt: two inmates still on the loose at this hour after they broke out of jail with another inmate. And you won't believe how they did it. The latest on the raid to catch these very dangerous men coming up.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We pick pieces of the puzzle that are missing. We don't know if it's an only Oscar knows. He is not here anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The mother of Reeva Steenkamp breaking her silence to CNN's Christiane Amanpour. She opens up about her daughter and whether she thinks justice was served against Oscar Pistorius.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hello on this Sunday. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Fredrick Whitfield. Thanks for being here.

Some of the people who say they saw what happened in Ferguson, Missouri, were not telling the truth, and they admitted it. Others so-called witnesses to Michael Brown's death changed their stories in front of the grand jury. And bad untrustworthy came from witnesses on both sides. We know all of this because of the thousands of documents that are now available for anyone to read.

CNN Josh Levs is here. Also with us, CNN analyst Danny Cevallos.

Josh, let's start with you. I know you have gone through really thousands of pages of documents. Witnesses lying, one admitting she got some details from TV news reporters, what else?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So (INAUDIBLE). So as you know, Ferguson led the authority there have become what we call data dumps where you suddenly get thousands of pages of documents and what we wanted to do here at CNN is really to take the time to go through them and say, OK, what can we learn from is. And one -- so in the coming days we're going to be rolling out a series of stories and the first one that you can see today on CNN.com is kind of a stunning look at people who came before the grand jury but were in no way at all helpful to the grand jurors if they were trying to figure out what may have happened.

Some of them straight up lied then admitted it. Others of them were just thoroughly not believable. And I want to start with a couple of examples for you. These are people on both sides, take a look on witness number 35. This is someone who was from the pro-Michael Brown contingents.

Now, at one point when he keeps changing his story, a grand juror said to him, are you telling us the only thing that is true about all of your statements before this is that you saw that police officer shoot him at point-blank range. Yes. All right. So that's one example.

Here's another one. This witness number 40 who gave the testimony that was so strange and changed so often that a prosecutor actually said to her, is it possible do you think that you dreamed about this after it happened, and it feels real to you? That you were up there? He insists no, I never dreamed about it. But let me tell you about her.

She is very pro-Wilson, pro the officer in this case. She had posted a racist rant that day of the shooting. She's organized a group that's supporting him. So what we have in these documents as we go through them is a series of witnesses, not the majority, but a series of witnesses who were only brought up there as an opportunity for prosecutors to show people here are some people that you cannot trust.

CABRERA: Which could have clouded really the whole picture of what happened in front of the grand jurors.

LEVS: Yes.

CABRERA: Danny, I want to ask you, are you surprised to hear these discrepancies and specifically the witnesses may have lied?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not at all, at least the discrepancies. I mean, this is demonstrating to the citizens what people in the justice system have known for a long time, that eyewitness testimony, that data is increasingly showing, I inherently, at best, unreliable. At worse, is completely unreliable.

Because our brains do not work like videotapes. And while the concept of lying and truth is sort of an elusive concept, what happens more often is that witnesses receive after acquired information or depending on the way the interview is conducted, they take their snippets of memory and then piece it together to form a narrative.

So when we talk about lying not lying, I mean, many people are doing this without their memory, does not even aware that they're lying. Of course, some people may be flat out fabricating to become famous or to support the side that they prefer. But I think most defense attorneys and prosecutors would say that it's more towards the middle.

It is more of the result of our evil frail memories and are unconscious ability to piece together pieces of that memory into a cohesive narrative.

CABRERA: Josh, I know one of these witnesses in your reporting really goes on to say that she -- that what she said because she just wanted to be part of the story and she was reiterating what a boyfriend or friend told to her. Do you think there are a number of people who really intentionally misled the jury?

LEVS: Yes. It does seem. So what we have is the whole collection of everything. We have what Danny is talking about, which is that there are certainly people who have faulty memories, and that's always a difficulty. And it's quite possible that the majority of the witnesses, that most witnesses, were just trying to say what they remembered, but, sure. When you take a look really closely at this testimony, you find some people who came from a very specific point of view who wanted to support one specific side, who went ahead and said what it was that they said even though it was quickly proven to not be credible.

There are other examples. There was actually somewhat a 10-minute interview with police whose played for this grand jury and asked to that 10-minute interview with this alleged witness was played, right after that, they played a phone call with this guy where he admitted OK, actually, I didn't see anything.

So sometimes have you people with a narrative, people who are taking one side. But I do point out, it's a good example, sometimes you just have people who want to feel like they're part of it.

CABRERA: And Danny, I want to take one more question to you. You know, if you look at this issue that we're seeing with the witnesses, some might say this is greater proof that the process wasn't done right, that the prosecutors should have screened the witnesses and then only presented those who they deemed credible. What do you think?

CEVALLOS: Well, that assumes first that the ultimate objective for a prosecutor is to always secure an indictment? If you take a step back, that's want the prosecution's role. The prosecution's role is to sit through the evidence, form an opinion about the guilt or innocence of a defendant and then perceive from there.

Yes, the prosecutors may have had a preformed idea that influenced the way they presented this information, but that's what we pay prosecutors to do. And looking at it from another perspective, if the prosecutor knew all this information was out there, it's what we call Brady information. The defense was going to have it at trial. It raises a bigger question, should a prosecutor seek an indictment when he knows that there's so much exculpatory evidence that there is no way that can ever get a guilty verdict, should they still proceed and try to secure an indictment when they know legally speaking, a supposed defendant is ultimately going to be not guilty?

CABRERA: So I'm hearing you say you believe the prosecution in this case may have done the right thing.

CEVALLOS: Well, it depends on -- look, there is no question that we take a -- prosecutors take a different attack when it comes to potential police officer defendant. Maybe that system needs to look at. But it is very difficult to say that a procedure was completely unfair win more information rather than the usually tailored information before a grand jury was presented.

Maybe the real question is, is the process of letting the prosecutors select only his favorite information to be presented to a grand jury is that inherently unfair? And if we seek the challenge that, then we might have to start rewriting the constitution because that's how firmly entrenched the grand jury process is in our system.

CABRERA: OK. Certainly, it opened a lot of eyes for the process.

Josh Levs and Danny Cevallos, thanks to both of you for your insights.

And for more details, if you want to read it for yourself straight from the grand jury documents, you can check out Josh's full report right now on CNN.com.

Now, the Ferguson case ignited a nationwide conversation about race. Tens of thousands of people marched in several cities yesterday protesting what they see as rampant racial injustice. But for the most part these protests were peaceful. But in New York, two police officers are still recovering after officials say they were knocked down and beaten on the Brooklyn Bridge.

Also in Boston, police arrested 23 people for disorderly conduct as they marched from the state capitol.

In Oakland, California, police say there were several incidents of vandalism and at least 45 people were arrested.

In the nation's capital, a done deal that is right up another government shutdown is off the table, at least for awhile.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yes are 56. The nays are 40. The motion to concur is passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Last night the Senate passing that $1.1 trillion spending bill. This bill is now headed to the president's desk.

CNN's Erin McPike is joining us live in Washington.

Erin, this bill did not pass all that easily. How did it all go down?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, it did pass with broad bipartisan support, but there was also pretty substantial bipartisan opposition.

Twenty-one Democrats, 18 Republicans, and one independent voted against it. And how they got it done was essentially appeasing Ted Cruz to some degree. You may remember that Mike Lee and Ted Cruz with a pair of junior Republican senators who are holding up final passage of this bill on Friday night, and they had to go into a long series of procedural votes on Saturday.

Well, finally at the end of the day, they let Ted Cruz have a vote on essentially this point of order vote which may allow him to make the point that President Obama's executive order on immigration is unconstitutional

Listen here to Ted Cruz on the floor last night making that point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Tonight both Democrats and Republicans will have the opportunity to show America whether she they instant with a president who has defined the will of the voters or with the millions of Americans who want a safe and legal immigration system. This point of order is targeted. It is not to the entire omnibus, but specifically to the DA just funding that the president has announced will be spent unconstitutionally. If you believe President Obama's amnesty is unconstitutional, vote yes. If you believe President Obama's amnesty is consistent with the constitution, then vote no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now, that particular vote failed even 20 Republicans voted against it. But we should point out that this $1.1 trillion spending bill, while it funds the government through September 30th, it only funds the department of homeland security and what it does for immigration until the end of February.

So what that does is set up a big flash in the next couple of months for immigration on Capitol Hill. The other saying is we know that in both caucus, the Democrats and the Republicans, they are going to be some problems going into the next year. We know that Mike Lee and Ted Cruz will go to great lengths to get what they want. And yesterday, we heard from a number of Republicans from the moderate Republican Senator Susan Collins in Maine all the way to the conservative Republican senator just like in Arizona. They're not very happy with Ted Cruz. So we should see some interesting fireworks next year, Ana.

CABRERA: Well, busy -- interesting to find out what happen to their fallout in the coming days.

Erin McPike in Washington, thanks so much.

Right now the U.S. Marshalls are joining a manhunt for an escaped prisoner in Alabama. The authorities there captured two out of the three inmates who broke out of jail after they apparently over powered a security guard yesterday. The man you see on the right side of your screen is Gamayel Culbert. He is now in police custody. Also Justin Terrell Gordon was captured yesterday. He was being held on robbery charges there.

Now, the county sheriff says it all started when a jailer opened the cell door because he thought one of the inmates was very sick, but once that cell was opened, the men attacked the guard and were able to flee. The state remains on high alert. The Alabama state bureau of investigations is helping with the search there.

Dick Cheney weighing in once again on the Senate's torture report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a very, very poor piece of work. It should not be used to judge the agency or the program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: We asked a former U.S. Navy survival trainer who has been waterboarded himself to join this conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: Well, torture to me, Chuck, is an American citizen on a cell phone making the last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the trade center in New York city on 9/11. There's this notion that somehow there's moral of equivalence (ph) between what the terrorists did and what we do, and that's absolutely not true.

If worked now for 13 years we've avoided another mass casualty attack against the United States. We did capture bin Laden. We did capture an awful lot of the senior guys at Al-Qaeda who were responsible for that attack on 9/11. I would do it again in a minute.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: He would do it again in a minute. That was former vice president Dick Cheney just this morning staunchly defending the CIA's controversial enhanced interrogation program.

We're joined now by Malcolm Nance, a former master instructor for the U.S. Navy's survival assistance and escape school, also referred to as fear by some.

Malcolm, thanks so much. First, I want to get your response to what we just heard from the former vice president.

MALCOLM NANCE, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: Well, it's absolutely an incredible comment to hear from an elected vice president of the United States. I'm a professional -- I am an intelligence professional. I've spent my entire career going after terrorists and people who were threats to the United States of America, but I stand for honor first. I cannot believe that we have decided under that administration that they would compromise the honor of the United States set forth by general George Washington himself on the treatment of prisoners to take techniques that we had SERE had gleaned from the Nazis, the Japanese, the North Koreans, and the North Vietnamese and apply them to these captives. That's want the way we do things. That's not what we taught at SERE.

CABRERA: Help us understand what you taught at SERE because I know as you were a trainer there, you and the entire staff were required to undergo waterboarding. What is that experience like?

NANCE: Waterboarding is a demonstration tool that we use. And the difference between what we use at the SERE school and what the (INAUDIBLE), their pole pot use in Cambodia, what the Nazis used was exactly the same. We used the exact same device that they had by their exact same design. And what we did was we would give a demonstration application that an enemy who had no ability to -- or I'm sorry, an enemy that had a complete disregard for human rights, an enemy that was totalitarian, that had he had the ability to make you talk, and what we would teach at SERE is how to talk. You were going to fail, you were going to endure a bit of torture, but under a real enemy they would give you long stretch of torture. All you have to do is ask Senator John McCain.

CABRERA: But what did it actually feel like?

NANCE: Well, what it felt like was it was. It was a simulation that was a controlled drowning. There was nothing fake about it. What we did was we would apply water in measured amounts, and what we would do is bring you beyond your ability to resist, and to do that we had to bring you beyond your ability to breathe, so this is why that was a torture.

But it's a matter of intent as well. When we give that to a student at SERE training, it's what we call stress inoculation. We are applying just a touch of it to show you that this is what an enemy will do to you. But when you take that and you extrapolate it -- sure. Go ahead.

CABRERA: This report shows that at least one of the captive that is they used this technique on experienced 167 times. Do you think there's any gray area where, you know, maybe some of these techniques are considered torture if you go to a certain extend. But it wouldn't be considered torture and other circumstance.

NANCE: No. There is absolutely no debate about this within the intelligence in the SERE community, OK? Within SERE which is a program who started after the Korean War because many of our prisoners were dying in captivity, were dying from abuse and torture, and were breaking in such a way that they were die divulging real classified information.

This program was put together on the basis of blood. It was put together on the basis of lessons learned from every captive soldier, American, since the American revolution. So when we took -- when the Bush administration took that information and took these enemy techniques and turned it on its head and decided to apply it as an American policy, we violated the honor and the spirit of all of those soldiers who died in captivity.

CABRERA: Malcolm, one last quick question. Do you believe that America is in a stronger position now that this information has been revealed, or are we more vulnerable?

NANCE: We were vulnerable the day that we decided to use these techniques. I have written several books about Al-Qaeda. I lecture on Al-Qaeda internationally, and let me tell you, Osama bin Laden himself had always framed the United States as hypocritical torturous liars who would use any technique in order to abuse what he taught was the greater Muslim world.

And then to have this revealed in 2003 and 2004 and 2005 that we actually did that. We actually took our enemy's techniques and used it. We validated Osama bin Laden's beliefs. Releasing the report has nothing to do with how we're going to be treated around the world by our enemy captors. OK? It's the very fact that we did it and we violated our own code of honor to do it that's going to hurt us.

CABRERA: It's so interesting to hear all these different perspectives coming from people in very similar positions.

Malcolm Nance, thanks for joining us the conversation.

NANCE: It's my pleasure.

CABRERA: Now, just a month after several Americans were released from North Korea, another American is now there, and his message might not be what you would expect. It's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A U.S. citizen is being held now in North Korea after entering the country illegally last month. The state media there just gave him a national platform. What did he say? Well, he pretty much bashed the U.S. economic and foreign policy. And now new details are coming about who this man actually is and why he may have decided to make the dangerous journey into North Korea.

Here's CNN's Will Ripley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here's what we're learning about Arturo Pierre Martinez. His mother tells us that he is 29 years old from El Paso, Texas. And most importantly here, he has a history of mental instability, including a bipolar diagnosis. His mother says he is off his medication right now, and she's been very concerned about him since they last had contact in November. That's when the Pyongyang leadership says Martinez illegally crossed from Beijing into North Korea.

That was his second attempt, by the way. He crossed into North Korea and told the government there that he had a message about the United States. A message that he delivered in a press conference on Saturday in front of a crowded room of North Korean government officials and members of the state media and also foreign press as well.

He went on a rant against the United States criticizing its domestic and international policies accusing the United States of acting like a mafia figure taking control of smaller countries. He uses the Iraq war as an example of that.

Now, this type of language, of course, plays in very well to the message that North Korea is trying to send not only to its own people, but the rest of the world, that America is an imperialist that is unfairly treating North Korea and accusing North Korea inaccurately of widespread human rights abuses that were laid out in the United Nations report earlier this year.

So even though this young man has a history of mental instability, he is being taken very seriously in North Korea. But whether he will be allowed to leave the country or if he possibly faces criminal charges for entering illegally, well, that has yet to be seen.

Martinez in his statement thanked the North Korean government for pardoning him for his crimes. He says he plans to seek asylum in Venezuela if and when he is allowed to leave the DPRK.

Will Ripley, CNN, Tokyo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Back here in the U.S., protesters filled streets across the country yesterday, some called marching, chanting, but others leaning towards violence. In fact in New York, two officers were assaulted, and protesters found an unusual bag. Details right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Andy Roddick is former U.S. surfing champion and the last American to be the world's number one. But it is two years since he played on UNTP (ph) shore. These days, the 32- year-old, is busy playing teen tennis. He is a television sports analyst and is also the co-host of a podcast. It's been a career change, but it in many ways his life is the same.

ANDY RODDICK, FORMER SURFING CHAMPION: The job fits because it's not really -- not really anything different than I would do on a normal day if I wasn't employed to starts. I would get up and you read the sports pages and obviously criticism is part of what you have to do. My rule is that the person sitting across from me now is comfortable telling them my criticism, then, I can say it on air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Earlier this year, Roddick celebrated his five-year wedding anniversary to model and actress Brooklyn Decker, but apparently an acting career is not on the cards for him.

You get recognized as Brooklyn Decker's husband or Andy Roddick the tennis is player?

RODDICK: I don't know how I could recognize. Most people think I'm different from "American pie." That's how I get recognize. Unfortunately, acting for me is something that requires a bit of artistic talent, of which I have zero.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Bottom of the hour now, welcome back. I'm Ana Cabrera. This morning the hackers behind the Sony hack attack issued a new threat of another nightmare before Christmas.

In an e-mail titled "Merry Christmas" the hackers say, quote, "we are preparing for you a Christmas gift, the gift will be larger quantities of data, and it will be more interesting. The gift will surely give you much more pleasure and put Sony Pictures into the worst state," end quote.

CABRERA: A close call over Europe. Officials in Sweden say a passenger plane almost collided with a Russian military jet. The passenger plane was flying between Denmark and Sweden when it had to change course to avoid a collision.

The Swedish Air Force identified the other aircraft as a Russian intelligence plane that had its transponder turned off. Russia denies this claim saying the aircraft was more than 40 miles away.

Demonstrators filled the streets of big cities all across the country this weekend calling for an end of police brutality and racial profiling by law enforcement.

Most of these protests were peaceful, but there were a few notable exceptions. Let's bring in Alexandra Field. She's joining us from New York. I know in New York two police officers were hospitalized. What happened on the Brooklyn Bridge?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, this was a splinter group of demonstrators that broke away from a really big demonstration. They headed out on the Brooklyn Bridge. Police say that two officers were kicked, punched in the face, knocked down to the ground when they tried to stop a man who was throwing a garbage can out into the street

Then they say they found a bag, which they believed belongs to that man. It had a couple of hammers in it and also a mask. Now overnight, they were able to arrest the suspect involved in those two officers assault. The officers were taken to a hospital. Police say that they were treated and doing just fine now.

CABRERA: Good to hear it. We know this was a huge protest and again, the majority of the protesters there were peaceful. You mentioned yesterday they were planning to end their march at the NYPD headquarters. Any response to those protesters' demands? FIELD: You know, Ana, I think that the protesters in New York City

and the protesters who we also saw in places like Washington D.C. and Boston know that there is a very long road ahead of them here.

They are calling for some specific reforms, but they're calling for a much broader changes than that? They're talking about ending police violence. They are talking about ending racial profiling. So these aren't the things they necessarily get any kind of immediate response.

But certainly they generated conversation. Earlier today, the governor of Massachusetts Duvall Patrick spoke to our Candy Crowley on "STATE OF THE UNION" to talk about what officials can do to listen to protesters and how the protesters are conducting themselves when they take to the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We went to great lengths to try to connect with the organizers to the extent they were organized to get a sense of what they needed so that we could accommodate the protest and respect their right, and they weren't interested in engagement because part of the point was to be disruptive. I think it does beg some questions what is it we're trying to accomplish beyond disruption?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: And certainly we have seen some protesters trying to be disruptive. The vast majority of them certainly remain peaceful, really just walking and chanting. We know that in Boston 2,000 to 3,000 people marched. They left the state capitol, and there were two dozen arrests in that march. Most of those arrests were for disorderly conduct.

CABRERA: And these protests were coast-to-coast. I know Oakland continues to be sort of a hotspot. There was more violence there last night?

FIELD: Yes, we've certainly all had our eyes on Oakland because that's where we've seen some of these more violent images. A little more violent than what we've seen anywhere else really, 45 arrests were made there overnight.

They said they had some incidents of vandalizing broken windows. A couple of small fires that were set there so police continuing to try to get a handle on that situation there.

But Ana, I want to bring it back to New York City because the images of all those people just filling the streets of Manhattan were so incredibly powerful.

We're estimating that, you know, tens of thousands of people were walking through the streets of Manhattan and then amazingly there were just one person in that crowd that was arrested.

We're told that was an arrest for disorderly conduct. The second arrest coming later in the night regarding an incident on the Brooklyn Bridge -- Ana.

CABRERA: I'm glad you end on the high note and really put that into perspective for us. We show the time-lapsed video of the tens of thousands of people who just came down that street. Alexander Field, thank you so much for your reporting. Up next, an African-American teenager found hanging from a playground swing. His death was ruled a suicide, but his mother doesn't believe it. Why she believes her son was lynched and why the FBI is now investigating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The FBI is now investigating a North Carolina's family shocking claim that their 17-year-old son was lynched. CNN's Victor Blackwell travelled to the small town of Bladenborough, North Carolina to talk with this family -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Ana, Claudia Lacy says she can understand and accept anything that is explained to her and proven to her even her son's suicide, but she says that under such bizarre circumstances and with so many questions, investigators have a long way to go to convince her that her son, Lennon, killed himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLAUDIA LACEY, MOTHER: I look for him and I don't see him. I listen for him and I don't hear him.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): The last time Claudia Lacey saw and heard her 17-year-old son, Lennon Lacy was around the time he snapped this selfie. The caption, "Last night pic before the game."

Lennon was a high school student and a lineman on the football team focused on a professional football career.

CLAUDIA LACEY: He was a physical fit 17-year-old, very athletic, very, very athletic. Down to his food, everything he drank.

BLACKWELL: But Lennon had asthma and had to exercise outside at night after the temperature dropped. Something his family says he did often. Lennon headed out for a walk the night of August 28th. They never saw him alive again. The next morning --

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: It's a black male hanging from the swing.

BLACKWELL: Lennon's body was found dangling, covered in fire ants, in the center of a mobile home park.

PIERRE LACEY, BROTHER: It's out in the open. There were trailers all around. People were, you know, around the clock at these hours of the day. Someone should have seen something, but no one had seen anything.

CLAUDIA LACEY: It was unreal. It was like a dream. It was like I was not seeing what I was seeing.

BLACKWELL: The state medical examiner's office declared Lennon's death a suicide, but Lennon's mother believes they're wrong.

CLAUDIA LACEY: He didn't do this to himself.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Do you believe your son was lynched?

CLAUDIA LACEY: Yes.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Pierre Lacey is Lennon's brother.

PIERRE LACEY: He may have either been strangled somewhere else and placed there or he was hung there while people were around watching him die.

BLACKWELL: When questioned by state investigators, Lennon's mom said he had been depressed because a relative had died recently. Lacey says she did not mean that he suffered from depression.

CLAUDIA LACEY: When you just lose someone close to you, you're going to be depressed, upset, and in mourning.

BLACKWELL: Lennon's family says he was focused on football and college asks distracted by his ex-girlfriend. His mother says 17- year-old Lennon had been dating a 31-year-old white woman. The age of consent in North Carolina is 16. Still, some people in this small southern town did not like it. Lennon's mother did not like their dramatic age difference.

CLAUDIA LACEY: I was shocked, disappointed, and I also initially told him how I felt. I did not approve of it.

BLACKWELL: In the wake of his hanging, some wondered if he was killed because he was in an interracial relationship. Racial tension can often exist just below the surface, and here it can break through. Local news covered a Ku Klux Klan rally at a nearby county just weeks before Lennon's body was found.

(on camera): There were people in this community that didn't like a 17-year-old black male and a 31-year-old white female?

(voice-over): A week after Lennon was buried, a teenager was arrested for desecrating his grave. Reverend William Barber leads the North Carolina Conference of the NAACP.

REVEREND WILLIAM BARBER, PRESIDENT, NORTH CAROLINA, NAACP: There are too many questions, and it very well could be a lynching or staged lynching. We don't know. What we do know is that it has to be a full investigation of these matters.

BLACKWELL: The NAACP hired forensic pathologist Christina Roberts to review the case, including Dr. Debra Radish's autopsy completed for the state. Her first concern, basic physics, Lennon was 5'9". The crossbar of the swing set is 7-1/2 feet off the ground. With no swings or anything else found at the scene that Lennon could have used according to the NAACP's review, how did he get up there?

PIERRE LACEY: His size, his stature does not add up to him being capable of just constructing all of this alone in the dark.

BLACKWELL: According to the police report, the caller, a 52-year-old woman, was able to get the 207 pound teen down. UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I'm going to try to get him down.

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: If you can.

BLACKWELL: Then seconds later -- according to the NAACP review board, Dr. Radish also noted that she was not provided with photographs or die mentions much the swing set. Without this information she would be unable to evaluate the ability to create the scenario. Lacey says she told state investigators the belts used to fasten the noose did not belong to Lennon.

CLAUDIA LACEY: I know every piece and every stitch of clothes this child has. I buy them. I know.

BLACKWELL: The initial report from the local medical examiner, however, notes that the belts appeared to be dog leashes. According to the NAACP's review, radish says she thought some portion must be missing because there was no secondary cut in either belt, a cut that would have been made to take the body down.

And Lennon's family says he left home that night wearing size 12 Air Jordans, but he was found wearing these size 10.5 Air Force ones, shoes that were not with Lennon's body when he arrived at the Medical Examiner's Office, according to the NAACP review.

PIERRE LACEY: He is going to walk a quarter mile from his house in a pair of shoes that is two sizes too small after he takes off his new pair of shoes, and this is a 17-year-old black kid with a brand new pair of Jordan's on.

He is going to take those Jordans off and just get rid of them and put on some shoes that ain't -- that's not his. We don't know where he got them from. No laces in them. And continue to walk down this dirt road late at night to a swing set in the middle of the trailer park and hang himself?

BLACKWELL: And there are questions in the NAACP review about Lennon's death being ruled a suicide. Dr. Radish noted that her determination of manner of death in this case as suicide was based on the information she was provided by law enforcement and the local medical examiner.

She would have likely called the manner of death pending, while awaiting toxicology and investigation, but the local medical examiner had already signed the manner of death as suicide. However, in the summary of the case written the day Lennon was found, the local medical examiner asked did he hang himself?

Will autopsy tell us? And let the conclusion on the manner of death pending. We asked to interview radish who declared the death a suicide. Instead, a department spokesperson sent CNN a statement confirming the conversations between Roberts and Radish in writing.

"The comments that were released by the NAACP were a synopsis of the professional exchange between the NAACP's independently retained forensic pathologist and Dr. Radish. Local police and state investigators declined to speak with CNN on camera for this story.

BARBER: We don't have confidence in this local group here to be able to carry out the depth level of the investigation that needs to be done.

BLACKWELL: Now, the FBI is reviewing the circumstances surrounding Lennon's death.

CLAUDIA LACEY: That's all I would ask for. What is due, owed rightfully to me and my family. Justice proved to me what happened to my child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Well, as for the local police department, it has only 11 members. It's very small. It called in the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation to assist. Now, that agency has confirmed that it has the case, but offered no further comment -- Ana.

CABRERA: Disturbing story. Thank you, Victor Blackwell reporting.

Now Oscar Pistorius has a new chapter in his book perhaps. Reeva Steenkamp's mother is breaking her silence to Christiane Amanpour about the verdict in her daughter's death. And this as we learn that Oscar Pistorius may be tried again. The reason next.

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CABRERA: A judge rules prosecutors can appeal Oscar Pistorius' conviction, but not his sentence. That means a legal battle possibly could extend well into next year. Pistorius you'll recall was found guilty of culpable homicide in the death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp.

He was sentenced to five years in prison. The prosecutor called this punishment, quote, "shockingly light." Our Christian Amanpour sat down with Reeva Steenkamp's mother to talk about this verdict and a new book about her daughter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You have lived through something that really is so hard for anybody to understand. You have lost your daughter. What made you write the book at this time?

JUNE STEENKAMP, REEVA STEENKAMP'S MOTHER: I have written the book as a tribute to my daughter. I wanted people to know exactly what she was like. A lot of people loved her. She was loveable. She was beautiful inside and out.

AMANPOUR: What was that emotion that you must have felt the day the judge handed down her ruling, that it wasn't murder?

STEENKAMP: Shock. It was shock. I really thought -- I really had shock. One has got to remember what that judge -- she's presented with the evidence. These big pieces of the puzzle that are missing, we don't know everything, only Oscar knows and Reeva is not here anymore.

AMANPOUR: What do you think happened knowing your daughter?

STEENKAMP: Well, I have got my own opinion. Everybody has -- the really believe from all the things that were read out in the way he was treating her and trying to control her and she would never have allowed that. She was a strong woman. She had her own career. She didn't need to be Mrs. Pistorius. She would always want to be Reeva Steenkamp.

AMANPOUR: What does she tell you about their relationship?

STEENKAMP: She said we are fighting all the time.

AMANPOUR: Throughout the time that they were together?

STEENKAMP: The whole time from the beginning to the end they were fighting. Right after she said I thought you would be proud to go out with me, but you pick on me constantly.

AMANPOUR: And yet, there were affectionate tweets as well, messages, texts between them?

STEENKAMP: I think there was a huge attraction between them, and I think that's what made it so difficult.

AMANPOUR: When you came out of court after the verdict was read, it was said that the family was, quote, "satisfied by that verdict and wouldn't challenge it."

STEENKAMP: We didn't say we were satisfied with the verdict, but we were both satisfied when he went down the steps, and he was taken to the prison and locked up, and all his luxuries taken away from him. He has to pay what he has done. He can't go and shoot himself.

AMANPOUR: In your book, you write, Oscar's story, I don't believe. It seems to me he did not look for her when he says he thought he heard intruders.

STEENKAMP: Exactly. I mean, if you are lying in bed with your husband or whatever, your wife, and you hear a noise and you think there's something wrong, the first thing you do, you don't call them if there's no answer, don't worry about it. You go and get hold of them and say, listen, there's a problem in your house.

AMANPOUR: So as --

STEENKAMP: And you would keep that person with you to make sure that she was safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Now June Steenkamp also told Christiane that she wrote this book to help abused women, and she and her husband have started the Reeva Steenkamp Foundation for the same purpose.

A tiny little box found in a stone could be a window to the past. This is a time capsule from more than 200 years ago. What could be inside next?

But first, it was a discovery that stunned scientists. The most T-Rex fossil ever found.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Took me over to this big cliff, and he said take a look. I looked at it, and I looked at him, and I said is that T-Rex? He said yes, and I think it's all here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't moved anything around. We've been looking at it and taking pictures and try to figure out how to proceed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Well, what happened after this discovery is even more shocking. Don't miss "DINOSAUR 13." That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern. Stay with us.

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