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Two Hostages, Gunman Died in Australia Siege; Hackers Promise "Christmas Surprise" to Sony Pictures

Aired December 15, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The Australian government raise its national terror of public alert from medium to high because they were responding to the growing plight of Australians to either Syria or Iraq. The Australian Domestic Intelligence Service, estimate about 250 Australian citizens have gone to join Jihadist groups.

For more contexts on how Australia has become increasingly vulnerable to terror, we have Emma Dallimore, a reporter for "Australia's Seven Network". Emma, good to see you.

EMMA DALLIMORE, AUSTRALIA'S SEVEN NETWORK REPORTER: You too, Brooke. How are you?

BALDWIN: I'm doing OK. I'm thinking about everyone waking up this morning in Sydney and even your colleagues, Emma. I mean, you're in Los Angeles but you've in contact with your -- your colleagues, your crew who were there and then in the we hours of the morning. They actually heard the two words from police hostage down before the raid even started. Walk me through what they saw.

DALLIMORE: That is correct. Our crews had an extraordinary and very sad vantage point, if I may say outside channel Seven studios is there in Martin Place of directly across the street from this cafe. Our studios have huge big glass windows that stair directly into that cafe. So, of course, our entire building, our entire news team, all our cameras were evacuated and put out on the street somewhere safe.

But late into the evening as this siege rolled on police allowed one of our crews to go back into the newsroom where they had, again, an extraordinary viewpoint down into that cafe. Now Chris Reason our channel Seven reporter who was watching through the window tells me, he saw the hostage taker separate the hostages into two groups. That's when one of those groups made a run for it.

We saw five or six people escape through the door. They say within seconds after that they heard those words, hostage down. That's when police stormed through the building. We saw and heard the gunfire go off. Police were throwing in stun grenades as that firefight went on with the gunman inside.

As you now know very sadly as a consequence of that we have two hostages who are dead. The gunman also died. Several people are quite seriously injured. And beyond just the physical injuries, Brooke, the mental injuries, the emotional injuries these people would have suffered after 16 horrifying hours. BALDWIN: Seeing -- seeing the images of these people running for

their lives out of the cafe when they can make a break for it. Let me go back, Emma, in the middle of the point you made the fact that this -- this cafe was directly across the street from your TV station. And I'm wondering this giving everything we saw through the glass of this -- of this cafe, how did this hostage taker and who knows if he selected this location for that very reason, how did he play to the cameras?

DALLIMORE: Well that's right. In the very early beginning of this, it wasn't so clear. It seems like an incredibly random nonpolitical place to choose, a chocolate cafe in the city. But when you really think about it in context and what we know now it's not that random. It's right in the heart of Sidney's central business district. It is surrounded by federal buildings, law offices and as we've now said directly across the road from our television studios which had a very clear view through the windows straight into that cafe.

Now in the beginning we saw those horrific heart wrenching images of the hostages with hands against the windows and holding up that black and white flag. It did appear early on as well then, perhaps the man inside was watching because he made those hostages keep moving the flag perhaps to get a bit of a vantage point in front of our cameras which is just horrific. But look at one side, I know you guys at CNN did the same thing we cut that live feed. Obviously, we were talking with police. Well, as you know it is extremely dangerous to broadcast these live events as they are unfolding. We always have the safety of those poor people inside and our interests and you just can't reveal the tactical operations going on as they are unfolding.

BALDWIN: It's exactly right. That's why we don't do a lot of things live in situations like this.

But let me ask you this, Emma. Because of the top, we mentioned all the different, you know Australians who have gone to Syria and who have gone to Iraq to fight to try to fight, you know with the terrorists. And I know the Australian government they implemented some of the most aggressive anti foreign fighter laws out there. I'm wondering what officials are doing to prevent another siege like this and how the threat back home for you has really grown.

DALLIMORE: Yes. It has grown. And that's the frightening thing. I think around the world and particularly even for us Australian, Australia is viewed as a very peaceful, nonviolent, pretty laid back community. But we have been under this growing increasing threat. And you guys here in America are no stranger to that. And we've been dealing with that in the last few months in Australia. Only back in September police actually thwarted a terror plot that was planned for this exact area, Martin Place, the same place where this cafe siege has now taken place.

The plan there apparently was to grab and behead just a random innocent member of the public. Perhaps following some sort of cue from Islamic state. So you had reference the number of Australian fighters heading overseas who already gone to Iraq and Syria. Our government is clamping down in terms of suspending passports, obviously, extremely concerned about those people coming home.

But that threat for us really is growing still like we saw after Canada when that Jihadist rampaged into parliament there, Australians are still, I think, a little numb and in shock that this has, something like this has happened where we live, right in the middle of --

BALDWIN: Incredibly chilling, exactly to wake up.

DALLIMORE: Yes.

BALDWIN: In talking to one of the reporters before, just saying this doesn't happen here.

Emma Dallimore, Australian Seven Network. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it to talk to me about what your crew saw and covered in those chilling hours.

More on that just a moment including how American police would react if this unfold in a U.S. city. But first back to our other breaking story this Monday. A man on the run, right here in the United States after police say he went on a shooting spree targeting members of his own family. Those details are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are just getting some new video. I want to play for you in a second but just to set it up, this was in the middle of the night. Sidney, Australia, hours and hours of the siege over these gunmen as we now know 17 hostages held up in this chocolate cafe. This is the moment the gunfire had begun so authorities entered. Take a look.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

BALDWIN: You can see law enforcement with cameras, helmets and just the flash after flash after flash, obviously trying to disorient, neutralize the gunman and find as many of those hostages as they possibly can. The gunman, his name is Man Haron Monis. He had a long and troubled history with police. But you have a lot of people now wondering about the black flag the hostages were forced to display during that standoff.

So let me talk to Paul Cruickshank. This is our go to guy in situations like this. He is our CNN terrorism analyst.

So Paul, you know, given what you've seen thus far, does this absolutely scream lone wolf to you?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Should I say, yes, this appears to be a lone gunman, a lone operator, somebody inspired by ISIS, but not somebody with connections to the ISIS organization. It appears that he did this to retaliate for Australian airstrikes in Iraq against ISIS. Australian combat aircraft have flown 140 sorties over Iraq against ISIS in recent weeks. And this follows calls by ISIS for lone wolf attacks around the world, in the western world, including specifically in Australia, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What do you make? I mean, he had just two demands one to be able to talk to the prime minister and two he wanted him to bring a black ISIS flag and we see this flag in the window, though, as it was explained to me. It's not actual ISIS. Perhaps, this was the flag of Al-Qaeda. What's the difference, Paul?

CRUICKSHANK: It's just a difference in design, in logo, slightly different designs. Clearly he hadn't come along with -- with an ISIS flag. You think that if he was going to prepare for an attack like this he would actually bring along ISIS flag, but he didn't do that. So clearly for propaganda purposes realizing these scenes would be playing all around the world, he wanted ISIS flag to show that he was doing this in ISIS' name on behalf of this entity he views as an Islamic state over there.

BALDWIN: And this was 16, 17 or so hours that this went on there in Sidney and I think of other times, we, you know, you and I have talked on television, other attacks. I'm reminded what happened in Canada and then what it was just days later when you had the hatchet attack here in New York. So there have to be legitimate fears of copycats.

CRUICKSHANK: Brooke, that's absolutely right. And that hatchet attack in New York which came in October was just two days after an attack on the parliament in Ottawa and the attacker in New York, Zale Thompson, appears to be have been inspired by what he saw in Canada. He was following very, very closely the events in Canada. So I think there's going to be a lot of concern we could see copycats somewhere else in the western world, perhaps even in the United States in the days ahead.

The ISIS is starting to get its propaganda machine into gear, starting to praise this attacker. Some ISIS fighter starting to praise this attacker online.

BALDWIN: I was wondering how ISIS would take this, this apparent lone wolf attack and try to use it to spin in their propaganda wheel and also interesting too, you know this individual used, to took advantage of social media which is something you and I both know. ISIS has used, to communicate their horrors and message globally.

CRUICKSHANK: Well that's absolutely right. They've used twitter and other social media accounts like no other terrorist group that has used these before to get recruits, to spread their propaganda, their message, Brooke. And he was taking very much a leaf out of the ISIS playbook when it came to using social media this time around as well.

BALDWIN: Have to know as if they weren't already counterterrorism officials on high alert in the wake of this (INAUDIBLE).

Thank you so much.

I want to turn away from this breaking story to another one. We've been hearing and following for you. We are now hearing at least six people are dead near Philadelphia. And the suspected gunman is on the run. Police consider him armed and dangerous. How the federal government is tracking him down? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, another breaking story here, this frightening situation here this quickly changing outside of Philadelphia where police are trying to close in on a suspect who is on the run. We know that six people have been shot and killed including this individual's former wife and multiple family members.

And this happening in three different areas, three different communities here in the Philadelphia area. Police consider this individual armed and dangerous. They believe this is all stemming from some sort of domestic dispute.

But let me show you what this person looks like. Take a good long look for yourself. This is 35-year-old Bradley William Stone. As I mentioned Philadelphia police telling us, he is armed and dangerous. And they are trying to find him as I speak.

Let me bring in our CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, former FBI.

I mean, Tom Fuentes, when you hear this you hear domestic dispute, you hear ex-wife. Apparently, there were children with him at some point. How are police, how are law enforcement working to find him?

THOMAS FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, Brooke, you know this sounds like an individual that's very mentally disturbed. You know, he's a sick person. So they will be looking into, number one, what other family members he may look to hunt down, you know. He'd be a strong candidate to commit suicide, but in the meantime he could be killing other people.

So, you know, it is extremely important for them to try to track him down. They will be looking at whether he's called anybody on the cell phone, whether he's been in contact with any other relative, friend, neighbor, former colleague, any of that. So, this is highly serious because he's such, you know, he's such a sick person.

BALDWIN: Six people are dead. Again, as I mentioned including family members is what we're hearing from a law enforcement source. Can you tell me, Tom, we know he holed up at one point in at least in one home, how would law enforcement, if they finally nail him down, figure out where he is? Explain to me how they try to establish connection, communication.

FUENTES: Well, if they actually did him, you know, he barricades himself into a home and there's no other hostage, there's no other innocent people in that home, it will be much easier. They will try to call him on the phone if they know what phone number to call or try to get a phone to him on the front steps of the home if they can do it safely and try to set up some kind of negotiation with him.

But again, it's hard to say, you know, turn yourself in nothing will happen to you when you've killed six people. So that will be a very difficult negotiation at best. At the end of the day, they may try to inject some kind of teargas or something into the home to get him to come out. Try to capture him alive if they can, and take him in any event if they can't get him alive. So, you know, it's a very difficult situation for the police. There know when they do find him they're going to be dealing with a cornered animal that just killed half a dozen people who are family members.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. One other detail according to our Correspondent Susan Candiotti, hit this man uses a cane or some kind of walker to get around. But at does far, I don't know if he has help or not but has eluded police so far.

Tom Fuentes, thank you so much.

FUENTES: All right. You're welcome.

BALDWIN: We're going to stay on that story. Stay tuned for Susan's reporting of course throughout the evening here on CNN.

Coming up, hackers promising a quote - unquote "Christmas surprise" for Sony. The company already suffering embarrassing emails hacked from executive accounts. We'll have that.

Don Lemon talked to Oprah Winfrey and Tyler Perry at the Selma movie premiere here. The screener what -- what they think about the hacking. As a big mega movie producer, we'll talk to Don about that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Sony Pictures is being told to expect another nightmare before Christmas. Hackers are promising to unload another batch of insider communications as hackers already released emails sent by Sony executives where they wrote some pretty nasty, nasty stuff about some of Hollywood's biggest stars and salary information about others. Remember, we've reported on this, Social Security numbers, you name it.

Now, Sony is issuing a threat of its own to the media, including us here at CNN, warning against publishing any of the information contained in the stolen emails.

So we have a lot of territory to cover here with two of my colleagues, Don Lemon and Brian Stelter.

So welcome to both of you fellows.

DON LEMON, CNN NEWSMAN: Hello Brooke. Happy Monday.

BALDWIN: To you first Sir.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: So you roll into this Selma premiere over the weekends, which I hear is phenomenal.

LEMON: Yes. It's fantastic. Impressive movie. BALDWIN: Well, talk about that another time.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: So you end up, you're on the red carpet interviewing Tyler Perry and Oprah Winfrey.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: And you asked them about this hack?

LEMON: Yes. I had to. I mean I just thought I would be negligent in my duty as a reporter not asking about being both of them being producers, black producers in Hollywood having to deal with this so, I asked both of them. And surprisingly, they're answer was not surprisingly that, it was sort of consistent when I said on "RELIABLE SOURCES." Is that if you don't know someone, you shouldn't automatically judge their actions as racist if you don't know the entire content.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Because there were exchanges between top executives about what did the president see, Django, Twelve Years of Slaves, those kinds of things.

LEMON: Who knew each other. Well, let's assume what they say and I'll be going to detail about the other side. Go ahead.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Though I have to ask you, as a producer in Hollywood, you hear what's coming out with Sony and all that. What do you have to say about the negotiating in Hollywood?

OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN MOVIE PRODUCER: What I have to say is I would hope that we would not stand in judgment in such harsh judgment of the moment in time where somebody was hacked and their private conversations would put before the world. Because if you were to look at your computer and everybody else's computer, I've try to write everything as though it's going to show up in "The New York Times." But there are things that you say in your private conversations with your friends and with your colleagues that you would not want to be broadcast on CNN.

LEMON: Right.

I have to ask you as a movie producer, you hear what's happening with Sony and the emails. What's your response to that? Do you think its racist?

TYLER PERRY, MOVIE PRODUCER: I think, we all makes stupid mistakes and say stupid things that at once or a joke here or there. But unfortunately this all came back to haunt her. But I do not believe that she's a racist. Absolutely do not believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So again, she's saying -- he's saying he doesn't believe that Amy Pascal is a racist.

BALDWIN: Right.

LEMON: He said, I know her well, he also mentioned the new upcoming movie "Annie" starring Jamie Fox, saying if it wasn't for Amy Pascal, that movie would not be made. Yes, she did something stupid, we're not perfectly all do stupid things but he says, I absolutely, 100 percent believe Amy is not a racist.

And I think Oprah is right.

BALDWIN: That we should be writing email, thinking that it's going to show up in "New York Times".

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: If you look at our emails -- you and I had joke back and forth with each other. It may look silly if you take it how of context or it's sometimes in context.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Yes.

LEMON: We put on television. Doesn't mean you're racist or sexist or homophobic, maybe you said something silly between your friend.

BALDWIN: So Sony is saying to, we the media. Stop or what?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. If they had enough and they hired one of the highest profile attorneys in the country, David Boies to send letters to CNN and "New York Times" and other outlets saying, if you've got these data, the stolen documents, you going to delete them. And if you got them, you are going to stop reporting on them.

And this is not -- this is not a lawsuit. It's just a letter from an attorney about it. We've seen a variety of responses today from these news outlets. But I have not seen so far, Brooke our news outlets stopping reporting on the documents.

LEMON: Hey Brian, I discussed this on reliable sources as you can --.

BALDWIN: I express to bring up the show.

LEMON: Yes. It's tough because it does expose a rational insensitivity.

STELTER: There are some newsworthy for elements for the document for sure.

LEMON: Right. But then it's was gained illegally. These are basically hacked. You

know you're putting what hackers gave you on television. You're kind of doing their bidding, right, by putting them on television or reporting on it? So you know I'm torn about it. It exposes the lack of diversity and racial sensitivity in Hollywood. But then it's like, you know what, do you want people gaining information that way?

BALDWIN: What are their newsworthy?

STELTER: Some details are more newsworthy than others.

BALDWIN: You talk to me about what other nuggets are newsworthy.

STELTER: Well, some are newsworthy about the business of Sony. For example the next Bond film, way over budget, you know, way over cost, things like that are interesting for financial purposes about the business.

Then there are other things that are just gossip. Angelina Jolie being called a spoiled brat is interesting. And I would argue that as a newsworthy because she is a public figure. But it is closer to gossip than it is to news. And so we've seen gossip websites take the lead on reporting about that. But then it does trickles up to the CNNs and the others of the world.

LEMON: I'm not surprised so that they speak about people in terms of as being products. Personalities are commodities in Hollywood.

STELTER: Right.

LEMON: You would talk about --

STELTER: I think Angelina Jolie knows the people some of the bosses don't like her. I don't think that's a surprise to her. I think it's only a surprise to us now that we can read about it.

BALDWIN: Just makes you wonder, my goodness if it happened --

STELTER: That's what the folks at Sony say. That's what they say. God forbid if it happened to your media company.

BALDWIN: Right.

STELTER: And I think this letter from the lawyer last night, it's a step in their direction of being more on the offense because they've always been on the defense for a week now.

BALDWIN: You mentioned this mega lawyer, right? This Sony's now hired our company, I mean this is sort of like a lesson to others that people need to start thinking, this truly could happen here or elsewhere, "the New York Times," your former employer, I mean, how do we protect ourselves?

STELTER: I think it opens up questions about how journalists are careful of their information. You know because, I and many other journalist, now you can see in the Sony emails who my sources were at Sony. You can see all sorts of things. So there are lessons for journalists about protecting our information. But there are lessons for all sorts of media companies and all sorts of company beyond media about how not to store your passwords or your employees' medical records and things like that. Sony's the victim in this case. But a lot of other companies could be the victim.

LEMON: It's really the end of privacy as you and I have talking about, it really the end of privacy. And I do have to say this because we are air tonight. Not everybody agrees with what Oprah and Tyler Perry said. There were actors on red carpet last night, very high profile actors, who don't necessary believe that. And Shonda Rimes said outright it's racist. She said you cannot put a cherry on top of it. And then make it better, it's downright racist. And I think actors in Hollywood who have so much, much trouble finding jobs. Stress the actress of color, they really think this is racist.

BALDWIN: Can you tell me in 15 seconds what else you asked of Oprah Winfrey? Tease me. Tease me Don.

LEMON: I asked Oprah Winfrey about Bill Cosby. I asked her about this, I asked her about what's happening around the country and the timing of it. She sent a screener to the folks in Ferguson who were protesting. I also asked wait, do you hear what Tyler Perry has to say about Bill Cosby as well.

BALDWIN: Ten o'clock, tonight.

LEMON: Ten o'clock. Tonight at Don Lemon.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon, Brian Stelter, thank you both so much.

And thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in New York.

We're going take you to Washington now. "The LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.