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Dr. Drew
A 12-Year-Old Boy with an Air Gun; Bill Cosby Breaks His Silence; Is Bill Cosby a Somnophiliac?; Twin Sisters Fight Over Vibrator, Boyfriend
Aired December 15, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a 12-year-old African-American boy with an air gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a guy in here with a pistol and it`s probably fake, but like pointing it at everybody.
PINSKY: Minutes later, shot and killed by a white police officer. Is this a case of race? Our panel says yes and no.
Plus, Bill Cosby breaks his silence why has he finally decided to speak out. Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
PINSKY: Good evening. I`m here with my co-host Samantha Schacher, and tonight we want to know why a 12-year-old boy holding merely a toy gun dies
at the hands of police. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMARIA RICE, MOTHER OF TAMIR RICE: Tamir was a bright child. He had a promising future.
PINSKY: Their son, who was shot carrying a toy gun in a public park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guys keep pulling it in and out. It`s probably fake but you know what? He`s caring the -- out of people.
PINSKY: But the fake part appears to have been left out of police communications to the responding officers.
RICE: Two little boys came on my door and said the police just shot your son, twice in the stomach.
PINSKY: The tragedy is all captured on security cam video at the park that shows the 12-year-old by himself in a snowy day playing with and point the
gun, then a police car speeds up within feet of Rice. And within seconds, two officers jumped out and the closest to Rice opens fire, hitting him at
least once. He died the following day.
SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN`S MOM: This minor -- those are minor things that they were doing and it should not have caused them their lives.
RICE: I`m actually looking for a conviction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And we did some dig in in this officer`s past behavior. Sam, what did you find out?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: Well, he resigned from a smaller police department, Dr. Drew, in 2012, after superiors filed reports that described
as him as this, OK, "distracted and weepy. Emotionally immature. Lack of maturity, indiscretion.
PINSKY: I understand. You mean he -- that material, that report was available to this police department?
SCHACHER: Let me get to that, yes. OK. So there`s two other issues on this. "Dangerous loss of composure during live range training, and
inability to manage personal stress." So the answer to your question, yes, the Cleveland -- the police department said that they looked into his past,
detectives asked were there any previous disciplinary actions from this other smaller police department. They said no, but the Cleveland Police
Department never looked into his personnel file, which is where this reports would have been.
PINSKY: But they had access to that, they could have -- because some times.
SCHACHER: I`m sure they did.
PINSKY: Because sometimes they were -- sometime there are employment laws that really make it impossible to find out about something.
SCHACHER: I know.
PINSKY: . which is.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: I mean you would think if you`re going to hire a police officer, you should be able to have access to all of it.
PINSKY: Absolutely. Joining us, Karamo Brown, host of #OwnShow in Oprah.com, Vanessa Barnett, HipHollywod.com, Larry Elder, radio commentator
of your Dear Father, Dear Son.
So, does this officer shoot Tamir Rice because of the race of the kid with the gun or is this just incompetent officer, bad police work? Larry, what
do you say?
LARRY ELDER, RADIO COMMENTATOR: I don`t think we know enough yet. Just by looking at the video, you can`t tell that this kid is 12, nor can you tell
that the gun is a toy gun. When you -- I`ve been in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, I`ve shot BB guns and real guns when I was this kid`s age. They
first thing they tell you is not to point it at anybody.
So, we don`t know enough yet. I don`t know whether or not the police used the right kind of tactic. It`s still being investigated. I think it`s too
soon to know.
PINSKY: Vanessa, is it that simple for you?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: No. I think it`s absolutely lousy police work. They showed up and they shot this young boy within two --
less than two seconds of being on the scene. Not only were they negligent, the dispatcher who didn`t even bother to say that this was possibly a fake
gun as the call-in suggested, never mentioned that information, never mentioned that this boy was 12-years-old, and they`d show up racing -- even
assessed the situation and the shoot this young man dead.
No, it`s not, "Oh, well we don`t have the facts." Those are the facts and they -- it was lousy police work.
PINSKY: Karamo, if we start holding officers to a higher bar, are we going to make it more difficult for them to fight crime as a way I think Larry
might suggest? I`ll let Larry comment after you.
KARAMO BROWN, HOST OF #OWNSHOW: I don`t believe so. I think that the police should be held to higher bar. But surprisingly, I`m actually middle
ground with both Vanessa and Larry because right now, there`s so many things that are going on here. Larry hit on a point that has been
bothering me this entire time. Of course, this young man should not be dead, but why have his parents not talking that if you have a toy gun, you
do not point it at anyone. That`s parenting 101. That`s their responsibility to make sure that he knows that information. That would
allow people to think that they were in fear.
But on the same note, that these police officers clearly had the wrong intent. Their intent was not to diffuse the situation, it was to shoot and
kill. And that`s what he did. And also hearing his back record, we now know.
So it`s one of these things where we have to have a deeper conversation here because that`s really what`s happening.
PINSKY: Larry, is it that or just more time to get the facts?
ELDER: I think we still need more time to get the facts. Maybe this officer`s record has something to do with his judgment. I just don`t know
enough about it yet.
PINSKY: All right.
ELDER: But your point about crime going up is a valid one. There are over 2000 homicides in New York until they went to this so-called aggressive
policing. And now the homicides are almost 300 which is fewer than Chicago which is a smaller city. It`s been tremendous and a number of black people
are alive today as a result of this policing. A number of women are walking around not having been raped, a number of men are walking around
not having been mugged, a number of businesses are open not having been burglarized.
PINSKY: And to be fair -- to be fair, I was co-opting your points. So, it was your point where that -- that made that the other day here, so that`s
where I stole that.
ELDER: You mean you disagree with it?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I throw it out as a polemic. I don`t know. I really -- you know, I worry that, yes, while we may have gone a little too far. You want my
personal opinion.
ELDER: If the police become passive, crime is going to go up. It happens in Cincinnati when...
BARNETT: No. No, but.
ELDER: . yelling and screaming about a few black people being shot by the cops. The police didn`t said, "OK, we`ll answer the 911 call. We won`t be
proactive, crime went up."
PINSKY: All right, Vanessa.
BARNETT: Just a few black people being shot. Look, injustice is injustice whether it`s small or big. No one`s asking the police to be passive. What
I`m asking for is the police to do their job effectively, don`t show up to the scene and not assess a situation, go have all the facts before you go
in shooting a 12-year-old.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Guys, hang on. I will show you a video. Larry, hang on second, sorry. I want to show you a video what happened before the police car
arrived because Vanessa is raising this issue. Again, what -- and this is -- well, this video`s what prompted neighbors to call 911.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . what happened before -- before the actual incident itself. Tamir Rice is there with his gun and then somebody walks by --
we`ve blurred them out for legal reason. But the look on the (INAUDIBLE) face was one of fear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes I saw it before she was blurred out. And the person is terrified. The call that`s made to the dispatcher says guy with
pistol. So, the police as they approach think there`s a guy with a pistol, there`s no orange on it. And in that one and a half seconds, he reaches in
to his waistband and apparently pulls the gun. So.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: .a 12-year-old can fire a gun as easily as an adult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa?
BARNETT: I do agree, like Karamo said, parenting is big here. You have to teach your kids, you don`t point a fake gun at anyone but I also want to
bring up the point that this mother did not buy this gun for this young boy. It was given to him by a family friend. She had no idea that he had
it.
Secondly, the person that called the police was actually sitting their in the gazebo and he didn`t feel fear for his life, he didn`t get up and
leave. He sat there and watched all of this play out. So if he has the judgment to say, you know what, "Something`s off here but it probably is
fake." He looks like a young boy. If he has the discernment to do that, that is all I`m asking for from the police and the dispatch.
PINSKY: Larry, what were you trying to say? Go ahead.
ELDER: Maybe the guy didn`t move because he thought if the -- if this kid saw him, he`d shoot him. You don`t know why he didn`t move. And the
important point is that in Cleveland, I just live in Ohio, there`s a law that requires there be a little sticker, an orange sticker at the end of a
toy gun. It wasn`t there. It had been removed. Another reason the cop likely thought it was a real gun.
BROWN: Well, Larry, we have to disagree with you with that one because there`s no way that anyone could react. That shows the intent of this
officer. Because you cannot react within one second to see that there was no orange sticker. That police officer had negative intent here. He did
not go there to disarm the situation. He went there to shoot and kill. And that is what is wrong with this situation because the young man is.
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: . the guy on the video would have mentioned it.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: Gosh. Wow. I mean the police -- the Cleveland Police Department also has a long-standing history of excessive force. So, I
think that this was just a really bad situation all around and that officer should not have been in that department.
PINSKY: Well, it would be better enough if it weren`t for the fact that we have another story. A black man brandishing a gun at so-called at a
Walmart, he then shot dead by a white officer. Again, a tragic mistake or something more here.
And later on, Bill Cosby has something to say about the claims against him. We`ll look into that after this.
YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN, HLN CORRESPONDENT: I`m Yasmin Vossoughian with the Daily Share at this hour. Trending on Facebook, R&B singer D`Angelo
releases his first album in 14 years. The album "Black Messiah" released at midnight with its first single, Really Love. And it`s already beginning
to get some play on the radio.
Also, Hanukah begins tomorrow. And in honor of the holiday, Mashable post 18 quirky menorahs to brighten your Festival of Lights. Let`s take a look
at a couple. Here`s menorahsauraus rex and a star -- menorah. That`s really festive.
All right, in searching on Google right now, you can`t get enough of "Exodus, Gods and Kings". It conquered the weekend box office racking in
almost $25 million. It also knocked the "Hunger Games, Mockingjay Part 1" off the top spot.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A surveillance video that shows the moments leading up to and including the officer involved shooting dead John Crawford III
inside the Beavercreek Walmart. We saw John Crawford`s car enter the parking lot. Then just before 8:30 while he was on his cellphone that
night, he walked -- air rifle display, picked up that gun and kept walking.
For the first time, we learn from prosecutors, Crawford did not open the gun`s packaging. Someone else, they say, had done that earlier.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of this a real gun, one of this is the gun Mr. Crawford is carrying that day. As you can see, it`s very hard to tell the
difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then we heard the 911 call where a man describes seeing Crawford loading the gun and pointing it at people. That information lead
the officers to reasonably believe they were responding to an act of shooter situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and the Behavior Bureau, Vanessa Barnett, Larry Elder, and Jennifer Keitt, life coach. And you`ve probably seen this image
on Facebook and Twitter. It is Cleveland Brown`s player Andrew Hawkins. He`s wearing a shirt that says, "Justice for Tamir Rice and John Crawford."
John Crawford`s then the one we`re talking about at this particularly story who was shot and killed by police at Walmart. He was walking around as you
heard with an air rifle that looked like an assault rifle.
Now police thought they were dealing with an act of shooter situation which allegedly they did. Did they respond with appropriate force, Jennifer?
JENNIFER KEITT, RADIO HOST AND LIFE COACH: No. I`m sorry. I believe that we are getting to the point in this country in which it`s jut open season
against black men. Dr. Drew, how easy would it be if I was shopping in Walmart with my son who`s 20-years-old, for him to pick up an open gun,
maybe even (INAUDIBLE) fidget with it, see how it worked. And then all of a sudden, someone`s calling in an act of shooter situation?
We don`t even have any distance anymore to be able to discern whether or not someone just casually being because we`re conditioned to think we see a
black man with a gun, he`s a criminal, shoot him.
PINSKY: Larry?
KEITT: That`s where it`s getting.
ELDER: I don`t know why race had to be injected here. You see a man with a gun, the police have to do what they have to do. You know, we should
take some responsibility here. Why did the guy pick up the gun.
KEITT: Because I don`t think if the man were white that they would have done the exact same thing. That`s my point.
ELDER: In 2010, according to the CDC, 140 black were killed by cops, 386 white we killed by cops. Over the same 10-year period of time, about 2000
white were killed by cops, about 1000 blacks were killed by cops. Blacks are not being persecuted by white racist cops, it`s bull, it`s unfair, it`s
racist to say so.
KEITT: I don`t think so.
BARNETT: What your vague facts don`t seem to construe is the reasons why those people were killed. And in this instances that we`ve seen, all of
these men have been black and have been unarmed. So you can spout fax from four years ago but they have no relevance right now. The issue right now
is that Walmart sells this gun, Ohio is an open carry state. And when you saw this young man, he was not loading and pointing at people`s face and
shooting and -- up and trying to shoot up Walmart. That caller lied and later recanted the story and said that he never saw him point that gun at
anyone.
So we have a caller who may have had some racial profiling issues. We have the police who run up and don`t even realize that this boy, when they ran
up on him, he drops that gun and tries to get away and save his own life. They still shoot him.
So these facts that you`re giving us have nothing to do with this story right now. If you don`t want people walking around Walmart holding a gun,
don`t sell the gun.
PINSKY: Larry?
KEITT: Well I agree.
ELDER: These things all should be done on a case by case basis. With respect to Michael Brown, with respect to Eric Gardner, Tamir Rice, I`m
trying to look for the racial connection, I don`t see it. I do not see it.
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: . has done anything that suggest that they`re bigots, no. Because white cop, black suspect, ergo, racism. Not fair. That`s racist.
KEITT: That`s not true. You cannot judge the thoughts and the intent and that`s what I think what is being missed here entirely, that their thoughts
and their intent as it relates to seeing a black person with a gun. That`s what`s driving -- that`s what`s the motive is here.
ELDER: And you have the ability to get in the head of a white cop and tell exactly what he`s thinking, right?
KEITT: Well, do you have the ability to get into their head and say that it`s not that?
ELDER: I look at the facts. I look at the facts. The facts are that Michael Brown charged this officer, the facts are he ran and came back, the
blood trail shows it. The facts are.
KEITT: OK. But we`re not talking about Michael Brown. We`re talking about a man shopping in the Walmart.
ELDER: You don`t want to hear facts.
KEITT: We`re not talking about Michael Brown. We`re not talking about Eric, we`re not talking -- we`re talking about a man shopping in Walmart
who picked up a gun and someone called in that he was a shooter. And that.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Larry, hold on a second.
ELDER: . the individuals did something that caused this to happen. They could have altered their behavior and they`d be alive today. That`s the
common trend with all these.
(CROSSTALK)
KEITT: Thank you.
BARNETT: You can`t pick up a gun in a store that sells a gun? Hello.
KEITT: Exactly.
BARNETT: What could he have done differently? He never pointed that gun at anyone. He did not point it at the police. He was shopping while
(INAUDIBLE). He happen to hold a gun that the store sells. And now his life is gone and you corroborate that? You think that`s OK?
PINSKY: Hey, Vanessa. Vanessa, you seem to have a really intense reaction when Larry and Jennifer were going at it, what was that feeling you were
having? I saw like an almost a shutter.
ELDER: Oh, I can imagine what it is. Let`s here what it is.
BARNETT: You can`t imagine and I will not allow you to put words in my mouth. My reaction was that sometimes, in conversations like this, we have
differing opinions and that`s OK. But sometimes when we talk over each other, our point are not made and we cannot get our feelings expressed and
now it`s just more discourse when we can have healthy conversation.
I don`t have to agree with you but we don`t need to talk over each other, that we need to respect each other.
PINSKY: All right. Larry, one thing about the data you threw out there about white police -- white male deaths at the hands of police -- as
opposed to black male deaths. It was about two to one white, wouldn`t you say?
ELDER: That`s right.
PINSKY: But that`s not a reflection of the population at large. That is inordinately black males then relative to the presence of black males in
the population, OK?
ELDER: That is true Dr. Drew, but blacks also commit an inordinately high amount of crime.
PINSKY: Is it violent crime, I don`t know that data.
ELDER: . 50 percent of homicide victims, that`s the problem.
PINSKY: Well, that`s black on black homicide, right?
ELDER: . that`s why the cops are there.
PINSKY: So, you`re contention is that it`s reducing black on black crime?
ELDER: My contention is that aggressive policing reduces crime across the board. If you don`t want aggressive policing, fine, tell the cops just to
answer 911 calls. They`d be more than happy to do that. It`s easier and it`s safer. They`d be more likely to come home safely to their wives and
their children. They`d be happy to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: Aggressive policing also seems to increase the mistakes and that is not what we want either.
PINSKY: Well, hold on Vanessa. Go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: OK. So here`s the thing. There are people, like Larry Elder, who are trying to see things from the police officer`s point of view,
right? And then there`s a lot of people out there who want police reform. Now.
ELDER: No, I`m trying to see it from a fair point of view.
SCHACHER: Right. OK, well what I`m getting at is there are hundreds of local police departments this Friday who are going to do a 24-hour global
tweetathon, and hopes to show people by using the #poltwt, which is short for police tweet, by hoping to allow people to see what they sacrificed for
all of us on a daily basis.
Now, there`s also going to be a lot of activist out there who are going to flood the hashtag and hopes to advocate for some police reform.
PINSKY: I would love to know what exactly they want in that reform.
SCHACHER: They want sensitivity training, Dr. Drew. They want -- let me give some examples.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m feeling like an inner Larry a little bit for that -- I know there`s so -- one of the positive stories that seems gets missed and I`ve
seen in it on the news all through the weekend, police forces, police -- I think we have some footage of some of these guys with the.
SCHACHER: The cam?
PINSKY: The logos for, you know -- the sharing with the demonstrators. And they`re trying to get in with the.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: .they`re trying to be a part of it. They`re trying to dwell in with their community.
SCHACHER: And that`s a beautiful thing -- And OK.
PINSKY: And we`re missing all those stories.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: That`s why I think -- hold on. That`s why I think this is going to be a really -- let me finish my point. I think that this is going to be
a really powerful hashtag. A lot of people are worried because of the activist saying that they want to change the police reform which is more
sensitivity training, which is implementation, nationwide, OK? Changing the policy nationwide.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: And having less lethal force like the rubber bullets, but if you have this hashtag, Dr. Drew, this is important. Because it allows it
normal people out there to look at this hashtag and see the police, you know, view point, because there`s a lot of great police officers our there
who are risking their lives. And then it allows people to see the activist who are advocating for police reform.
PINSKY: So think Friday, look for the hashtag. What is it?
SCHACHER: Friday look for the hashtag. It`s called POLTWT, and perhaps we can find a happy medium between the two and we can have some solutions
here.
PINSKY: All right. I hope so. And please the people that are protesting. Can you just give us a real clarity about what the goals are? That`s where
I get a little cloudy on.
All right, the panel, thank you. Next up, Bill Cosby has something to say about the accusations against him. And tonight, his wife weighs in, the
reporter who broke that story is here with me.
And later, a woman is arrested for assaulting her twin sister over a sex toy and a man. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Bill Cosby heard for the first time since a string of allegations painting him as a serial rapist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cosby said his wife, Camille, is being strong through all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Camille and Bill Cosby immediately now, it stopped (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 20 women have come forward claiming Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When he gave me the cappuccino, I took one sip and I felt something very strange going on in my head. At that point I knew he
had drugged me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a lot of pain in -- downstairs. There was semen all over me and that my pajamas bottoms were off and the top is open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney had said that the stories aren`t true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Loni Coombs, attorney, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell", Vanessa Barnett, and joining us for the first
time, Ashlan Gorse Cousteau , journalist, activist. Welcome, Ashlan. Thanks for joining us.
ASHLAN: Thank you.
PINKSY: Nearly two dozen women have accused Bill Cosby of drugging then sexually assaulting them. Cosby remained silent until Friday when he spoke
to Stacy Brown. Stacy`s a journalist with the Washington Informer. Stacy is on the phone with me now.
Stacy, everyone in the world wants to talk to this guy, how did you get the interview?
STACY BROWN, WASHINGTON INFORMER REPORTER (via telephone): Oh that, Drew, I said, we just call him up and he answered the phone much to my surprise,
I was shocked.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: And his attorney released a statement today claiming that you did not say you were interviewing Cosby for any "publication". I am confused a
little bit Stacy, is there such a thing as off the record that`s out the record?
STACY BROWN: Well, you know, anybody who tells me off the record, I respect that as a journalist. Bill Cosby never said off the record. I
understand his concern with me opposed (ph) to him and I went through the same thing a year and a half ago when I wrote a story about him for the New
York Post. A couple of people on the team had given us the permission to use it in the New York Post, in fact, the New York Post really was
abstaining (ph) about it because they asked to go back to him, or go back to these people to make sure that he was OK for the Post to use this story.
So, this time, it was such a short conversation. There was no way for me to ask him at the end if it`s OK that I (INAUDIBLE) with the New York Post.
PINSKY: But Stacy, let me interrupt you -- I would interrupt you and -- we got another journalist here, Ashlan. And Ashlan, I`m going to ask you, you
know, Stacy is a very nice guy. I`m used to journalist that once he start talking, that`s -- you`re talking, that`s it. Everything is on the record
these days, no?
ASHLAN GORSE COUSTEAU, JOURNALIST AND ADVOCATE: It`s so true. And I love that Marty Singer, Bill Cosby`s attorney actually came and said that it was
Stacy`s fault and that he wasn`t being a good journalist by coming out and saying this. But I will tell you, journalism 101, if it`s not off the
record, it is not off the record.
PINSKY: But I`m not sure -- this day and age, is there such a thing as off the record? It seems -- I feel like every time I speak to a journalist, I
understand that these days everything is, you know, the way it goes.
COUSTEAU: Well -- and I agree with that. But it is also all about personal connections. And if you do have a personal.
PINSKY: Well, that`s the old -- but that`s also the old school of people like, you know, protecting one another, those days are gone. Those are
gone.
(CROSSTALK)
COUSTEAU: I mean my friends -- my friends who are also, you know, reporters, I don`t tell them secrets that I want out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right,
COUSTEAU: I don`t and they`re my friends. I know, if you talk to somebody, it is going to go out.
PINSKY: Yes. That`s right. This is the day of quid pro quo, which Sam, does not exist anymore.
SCHACHER: Right. You just assume that whatever you tell them, that will be printed or it will go viral.
PINSKY: And -- so what? That`s so you`d speak the truth. That`s the way it goes.
SCHACHER: Right. I have a question for Stacy. When you talked to Bill Cosby on the phone, what was his demeanor like? Did he seem that he wanted
to address the issue and talk about it? Did he seem depressed? Did he seem happy?
STACY BROWN: He was far from depressed. I was shocked to be honest with you because when he answered the phone, there was emphasize that -- before
I said my last name, he said, "Oh, I remember you. I know you." And he was -- he didn`t seem to be put off at all. He seems -- I want to say
almost happy to be talking to someone. I came (INAUDIBLE) from the discussion with him but leaving that here`s a man who really want to tell
his story.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Do you think he`s going to, Stacy?
STACY BROWN: I think they`re getting closer. I think -- it was very close -- two weeks ago, and say (INAUDIBLE) send me e-mail that we`re going to do
this with you. And then -- (INAUDIBLE) being happened. All that press conference, the law suits, LAPD (ph) investigation happened and they backed
off.
PINSKY: Now, we have a statement that Cosby reportedly gave you, Stacy. It said, "Let me say this. I only expect the black media to uphold the
standards of excellence in journalism and when you do that, you have to go in with a neutral mind."
Vanessa, what was he trying to say in the last.
BARNETT: I guess we`re out, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I`m out.
BARNETT: We`re out, I`m out.
PINSKY: But Vanessa, help me understand what he meant by that.
BARNETT: Bill Cosby is 77, y`all. He is old. I really honestly just think he was trying to say that, typically -- and we`ve seen this in
several stories we`ve covered here -- typically you think the community that you`re a part of will give you more of some leeway.
PINSKY: But it`s again, it`s a little bit of the quid pro quo.
BARNETT: And be more protective of you.
PINSKY: Yes, the protective stuff. Why do people feel protected in the day of social media when everything`s available to everybody?
BARNETT: I`m going to get blasted for saying this but, at the end of the day, if you are a journalist, you are supposed to be impartial. You are
supposed to be neutral. And he has not been charged with any crimes, nor has he been convicted. And so maybe that`s what he is saying, like, you
don`t know both sides of the story.
PINKSY: All right, Loni.
COOMBS: You know, Dr. Drew, I would like to ask Stacy this question. Because when I heard that question, I thought why is he interjecting race
on this topic? Nobody`s really been talking about this on racial issues. But, Stacy, I understand when you were talking to him, you started out by
saying I want to tell your story to the African-American community. Did you kind of bring up the racial issue and he followed up on that with that
quote?
STACY BROWN: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) Bill Cosby, as you all know, he didn`t seek me out, I sought him out. And he knew that I write for the black press.
So I think people have read too much into that statement. He was speaking to the black journalists. And I think if he was speaking to a white
journalist, he probably would have said the same thing, just in a different manner. I think that it was just a little bit taken out of proportion. I
don`t think he was looking for any favors.
PINSKY: Stacy, did you take any surprises away, anything you want to share with us that you think you learned? Are people jumping to conclusions?
Did you come up with a different sense of things?
STACY BROWN: Let me tell you something, and you`re a doctor so -- I`m think this guy is totally innocent or totally insane. Because nothing
seems to affect him at all. That`s my take on it.
PINSKY: So it`s one extreme or the other. Either he doesn`t -- either he didn`t do anything wrong or he doesn`t see that he`s done anything wrong.
It`s hard to imagine something didn`t happen with all that`s been reported.
(CROSSTALK)
COUSTEAU: It`s happened before.
PINSKY: What do you mean, Ashlan?
COUSTEAU: This isn`t the first time that people have had allegations against him with, you know, sexual abuse and drugging. So we have to
remember that.
PINSKY: And, Sam, today Camille Cosby released a statement. Is that right?
SCHACHER: Yes. And, boy, is she sticking by her man, Dr. Drew. So she says that she still loves him. She says that a lot of the accusers, it
seems like the media has given them a free pass. And this is part of her statement, quote, "He is a wonderful husband, father and friend. A
different man has been portrayed in the media over the last two months. None of us will ever want to be in the position of attacking a victim, but
the question should be asked -- who is the victim?"
PINSKY: Ashland, is the press victimizing Bill Cosby?
COUSTEAU: No, I don`t think at all.
PINSKY: That`s pretty simple. Let`s take a little poll here. Vanessa, are we victimizing this poor man?
BARNETT: Not victimizing, but he hasn`t told his side and I would love to hear his side.
PINSKY: All right, so we`re welcoming his side. Loni?
COOMBS: I don`t think so. And, Dr. Drew, what I found very interesting about Camille Cosby`s statement, not just that she`s standing by her man,
we expect that, but she actually turned the focus on the victims and very subtly she brought up the "Rolling Stones" article where they talked about
the alleged rape on the University of Virginia and how that turned around and there were credibility issues there. She said we need to start looking
at the victims. And she was able to bring that out.
PINSKY: That pisses Ashland off.
COUSTEAU: I can`t believe she did that. I mean, if Camille wants to stand by her husband, awesome. It`s her husband, she should do what she thinks
she needs to do. But to compare this to the UVA "Rolling Stone" debacle I think is just very reckless. Because it`s completely different; it is
apples and oranges.
PINSKY: Stacy, thank you so much for coming to us today and sharing that story. It`s really fascinating.
Next up, we`re going to discuss what might be motivating, if any of these allegations are true, what would motivate somebody to want to be sexually
active with someone asleep. Somnophilia, people aroused by a person who is sleeping or unconscious. We`ll get into that.
And later, a twin sister, a vibrator, a boyfriend, a fight. That`s right. After this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH FERRIER, COSBY ACCUSER: I believe that Mr. Cosby drugged me and sexually assaulted me that night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beth Ferrier claims she was drugged and assaulted by Cosby in the mid `80s.
FERRIER: It was a violent crime that I suffered. I have suffered in silence since 2006. I was on the set with him. I was there when he
interviewed Raven Symone. I was there with Lisa Bonet. I was there with Phylicia Rashad. I know the whole set. I know the whole scam. I know the
whole deal. I want it known that I am not going to be filled with shame anymore. It stops here, Camille and Bill Cosby, immediately now, it stops!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Judy, Karomo, and Jennifer. Strong words from a Cosby accuser. She claims he drugged and sexually assaulted her back in
1984. Cosby`s reported drugging of these alleged victims has some wondering if she has something called somnophilia, if he`s a somnophiliac.
Sam, what is a somnophiliac?
SCHACHER: Oh I love that you`re asking me. I had to Googl it, Dr. Drew. I Googled it.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Well, I`m just going to read the definition. So a somnophiliac is someone who is aroused by sex with a person who is asleep or
unconscious. The scholar who coined the term somnophilia describes it as a type of sexual fetishism. It`s interesting.
PINSKY: Yes, it`s like a paraphilia -- Karomo, you were kind of giggling at this, but I`ve talked to a lot of people that do this. And usually they
get consent and usually it`s with a stable partner. It`s not rape. But if someone is uncomfortable with it or someone`s being drugged into that
state, that`s a very different phenomenon within somnophilia. Have you heard of this?
BROWN: I haven`t heard of it and I`m sad that I`ve even heard of it now. People are so perverted and crazy to me. I just cannot imagine it.
PINSKY: Hold on, before you say anything too judgmental, I want to bring Ray Pace in. He`s on the phone. He identifies with this syndrome. Ray,
you say your former girlfriends actually did give consent and you -- this was something you enjoyed. Tell us about it, how you got into this, where
you first realized it. We have lots of questions.
RAY PACE, SOMNOPHILIAC (via telephone): I first realized it when I actually first became sexually active. You know, I actually -- it`s funny,
because I suffer from insomnia. So if I --
PINSKY: So it`s sleep envy.
(CROSSTALK)
PACE: If I had a girlfriend or something over and we were sleeping in the same bed together, she was asleep, I was awake, I couldn`t get to sleep.
So I might mess around, do some things, and I started to realize hey, I really like this. You know, the first time I discovered that, you know,
that I might be into this, you know, I didn`t do anything, you know, too serious. You know, just, you know, just touching, things like that. And
after that, you know --
PINSKY: Let me ask you a tough question -- do you ever have fantasies of drugging people and being sexual with them?
PACE: I`m sorry?
PINSKY: Do you ever have fantasies -- I`m not saying you ever did this -- but did you ever have those fantasies of drugging someone and then being
sexual with them?
PACE: Actually, no. Because I have -- I`ve done this with about three or four women with, you know, full 100 percent consent. So I`ve never
actually even thought of having the need to drug someone or to do this forcibly in that type of way.
PINSKY: Ray, when you hear these allegations against Bill Cosby, does it make you think of this syndrome?
PACE: Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, Bill Cosby is a -- he`s been a very big star for a very long time. Longer than I`ve been around; I`m 25
years old. He was a star in the `80s. I`m sure he could have gotten a lot of women, almost any woman that he wanted.
PINSKY: So you say the fact that he had such access explains why he would have also done this to somebody who was consenting with him. Let me ask
you this -- you`ve been called -- if someone called you a rapist, how would you defend yourself?
PACE: I would defend myself -- I actually have had accusations of that type directed towards me. The one thing I tell people is that this fetish
is not based at all on a lack of consent on the part of your partner. In fact --
PINSKY: It`s not about control.
SCHACHER: And Ray is not drugging people. Ray is getting consent.
But Ray, can you have an orgasm when you have traditional, conventional sex or is it only when you are -- was it called? I want to call it like somno
-- (INAUDIBLE).
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: OK, somnophilia. Is that the only time you can achieve orgasm?
PACE: It actually is. Traditional intercourse actually does not allow me to reach orgasm. So for that reason, you know, I try to, you know, explain
this to a woman, if the relationship is getting serious.
PINSKY: Ray, I`m going to heave it right there. You`ve been very helpful. People have lots of questions about this. I wouldn`t be surprised if we
have to bring him back.
SCHACHER: I would love an after show, just to ask him a bunch of questions.
PINSKY: Well, maybe he can stick around for the after show. I`ll have maybe a producer get on the phone with him.
It`s interesting watching the panelists. I`ve got Karomo with a look of disbelief and I have Judy going, uh-huh, paraphilia, only can function
sexually with this particular preoccupation. Right, Judy?
HO: That`s right. And when I think about this particular bent on a philia, somnophilia, I think about the fact that people sometimes have
these performance evaluative aspects of having sex. Like, they don`t want to be judged and they feel more comfortable when they`re not being judged.
And I can see that this is somebody who might actually like having sex with people who are unconscious, because then they don`t get judged and they can
really feel free to be themselves.
PINSKY: There is that one version of it. Jennifer, you`re saying no. And this -- I saw a pre-interview with Ray before. He said he wasn`t even
interested in the sex so much with these women. He wanted to express how excited he was to be around them, wanted to kiss them all night to let them
know that when they woke up, he`d be so excited that they were with him. It sounded much more tender than sexual.
KEITT: I -- I -- I`m like crickets here. This is brand new for me. Brand new. And this story, I`m just so sad. I`m so literally heartbroken over
the story for the women that are coming forward, for Bill Cosby. But I guess my one question -- wouldn`t he be that way even with his wife, too?
PINSKY: Great question. We don`t know.
KEITT: Wouldn`t we have heard something all these years of them being married? Wouldn`t we have heard if she was unconscious? I mean, I don`t
know.
BROWN: To be honest, I just feel, for Bill Cosby, if we`re going to get back to that, because that other one is blowing my mind about sleeping with
people while they`re asleep. But for him, I just look at him and he has a narcissistic personality. I mean mix that with moneyy and power, that`s
all that`s going on here. I mean, he`s lazy and he`s despicable. That`s just the real of it.
PINSKY: Vanessa is sitting in the other room, guys, tweeting. Just so you know. She wants to know if somnophilia is curable. I don`t know, Judy,
you say yes?
SCHACHER: And she asked if it`s a mental illness.
HO: It can be but you have to be motivated to do it. And that`s the problem with all paraphilias, right, Dr. Drew? It`s that motivation.
PINSKY: That`s right. They are hard changes; it`s like addictions many times.
All right, we have a poll today. We asked whether Bill Cosby should speak out in his own defense or remain silent. 63 percent said yes, he should
speak out. 37 percent no. Remain silent. I`m concerned that, in fact, his attorneys will not let him talk because there`s so much legal stuff
swirling around him now.
Next up, thank you, panel. Twin rivalry, an alleged assault over the boyfriend, right, OK, I understand that, and a vibrator. I don`t
understand that. We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Before we get into this next story, we were just talking about somnophilia, which is people that like to have sex with people that seem to
be asleep or unconscious. Sam had a question.
SCHACHER: Yes, OK, so the gentleman that just called in. He said got the consent of his previous girlfriends to have sex when they were asleep.
Don`t they wake up? And that defeats the purpose.
PINSKY: It`s actually more complicated than you might imagine. So what I`m going to do, I`m going to explain it all on our after show. Join us on
our Facebook page at the end of the show and I will get into all the gory details. It`s a little bit much for television. So we`ll do it on the
internet there.
Now, let`s bring back Sam, Loni, Vanessa, Judy.
New story: Heidi Creamer was arrested after police say she attacked her twin sister over a vibrator and a boyfriend. It`s like an acre and a mule.
Vibrator and a boyfriend. Sam, guess where it happened, Germany or Florida?
SCHACHER: Florida.
PINSKY: Got it, Florida. Very well done. Sam, what else do we know?
SCHACHER: OK, so Heidi and Holly, they`re twin sisters, they live together, Dr. Drew. And apparently they got in this big fight over her
boyfriend, Heidi`s boyfriend, and a vibrator. So Heidi apparently punched her sister, kicked her sister, scratched her sister, and then started to
remove Holly`s belongings from outside of their house. That`s when Holly slammed the door, locked her out and that`s when the cops came, picked her
up, and she was arrested.
PINSKY: I still want to know where the vibrator figures into this. Vanessa, can you understand somebody becoming this -- well, going to these
extremes if they were simply jealous? Doesn`t this seem like more than that?
BARNETT: I`m very confused by this story. I don`t know whether I pity them or praise them, because on one hand, these chicks are like 48 and
they`re getting it in with vibrators and boyfriends.
PINSKY: Well, they`re living together. And the boyfriend`s living there. It`s super trouble right there.
BARNETT: Real fun going on, maybe. On the flip side, she done punched her sister in the face over a dude. So I`m torn. I don`t know. It`s very sad
in one sense. And I just think -- it sounds to me, a good old fashioned cat fight, and this girl, this twin sister was trying to get at her
sister`s man. It seems very simple to me.
SCHACHER: Yes, but are they sharing a vibrator, too?
BARNETT: Ewww!
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: What do you mean, ew? That`s exactly what their story implies.
PINSKY: Now, Loni, this hasn`t been the first arrest for this woman. She`s been arrested for battery at least five other times in the last five
years. So something is going on here.
COOMBS: Yes. It looks like she`s been arrested for DUI and battery over and over again. Abd w\What`s interesting is that she`s had all of these
arrests, and yet this one, which just happens to involve a vibrator also, now is getting her on television. So there`s something --
PINSKY: All the other ones were just batteries. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHACHER: Good one, Dr. Drew.
COOMBS: Maybe they all go together.
PINSKY: I`m just saying. Call me silly.
But Judy, surprise, surprise, alcohol was involved. Shocking.
HO: Yes, exactly. Not shocking at all, Dr. Drew. And unfortunately, when we see these patterns over and over again, where are the people in her life
trying to get her help? What is going on that she`s now resorting to beating up her sister over a vibrator and who knows whose boyfriend? I
don`t even know what`s going on. I`ve read several different news reports said it`s Holly`s boyfriend, that it`s Heidi`s boyfriend. Maybe it`s both
their boyfriends. Maybe that`s the problem here.
SCHACHER: But Dr. Drew, what is it about twins? And this is no disrespect to twins. I have a number of friends that are twins. They stayliving
together for a long time. All the twins that I know are still living together.
PINSKY: It`s sometimes when parents raise -- it can be a nice thing or it can go too far the other way. It`s very much involved in how they`re
parented, whether -- Judy used a word called enmeshment. Judy, why don`t you try to explain what is.
HO: Enmeshment means that there`s really no clear boundaries in relationships. So everything is kind of overlapping, everybody is treated
almost the same way. That happens a lot with twins and also with unhealthy parental relationships and child relationships.
PINSKY: When everybody else is responsible for everyone else`s emotions and you feel something and everyone has to feel bad for it.
SCHACHER: I would be a terrible twin. Because I`m co-dependent as it is; I can`t imagine if I had a twin.
PINSKY: Judy, head on in here after the show. You and I can sit down with Sam.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But, first, a little break before we get on with this panel.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Loni, Vanessa, and Judy. We`re talking about a woman who police say beat up her twin sister over a vibrator and a
boyfriend. And, Sam, before we go to the comments online, I want to share with people -- I noticed my online comment, people were asking about
Germany or Florida. They don`t get that joke.
SCHACHER: Oh OK, you need to elaborate please.
PINSKY: Yes, I`ve got to elaborate. Vanessa, you don`t get it either?
BARNETT: No, I think I do.
PINSKY: OK, Adam Carolla and I, we did a television reality show for many, many years, and we noticed whenever anything really bizarre, macabre, went
down, it always went down in either Florida or Germany. And we would challenge either -- people would call in, and we would go, OK, we didn`t
know where in the world it was and we`d always go Florida or Germany. We were never wrong.
SCHACHER: 90 percent of our stories come from Florida.
PINSKY: That`s what I`m saying. This one is Florida; that`s the Germany or Florida reference, I apologize for that.
So give us some of these comments.
SCHACHER: OK, so we have a lot of activity on social media. From Facebook, we have Kathy Cronk Reinhardt writing, "Eww, buy your own. Some
things you don`t share." Sheila Elizabeth Inda writes, "Not surprised that this happened in Florida." There you go, Dr Drew.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: And by the way, I love Florida. I really do love Florida. No offense meant, just strange things go on down there.
SCHACHER: OK. It`s something in the water. And Larissa Anne Stweart writes, "I hope the sex toy is OK."
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Judy liked that one. Thanks, Judy. Loni, let`s look at her mugshot here. I wonder if you as an attorney draw any conclusions from it?
Can you put it up there for us? Go ahead, Loni.
COOMBS: You know, Dr. Drew, I`m glad you`re drawing attention to this. Because in all seriousness, you look at these mugshots and over and over
again, you can see this woman, in some of the pictures she`s a lovely woman, but in these mugshots she clearly has some issues, whether it`s
substance abuse --
PINSKY: It`s substance, that`s usually what`s going on when people are engaged in what seems like bizarre behavior. Judy, back me up on this.
But people are out there in their underwear bagning on their mailbox, it`s because of a substance.
HO: Absolutely. Yes, subsonic abuse leads to disinhibitions, so impulsive behavior, aggressive behavior. And I don`t know if there`s anything mixed
up with the alcohol, Dr. Drew, but if there`s a lot of aggression in her past, I wonder if there`s something else other than alcohol.
PINSKY: Stimulants. Then you worry about that. And then you worry about the history. If you have come from violence, you tend to perpetrate
violence in your adult life.
Vanessa, is this all making sense to go you?
BARNETT: Of course not.
PINSKY: I see the disbelief on your face.
BARNETT: But I wonder is this the first time she`s been in an altercation with her sister. I know she`s been arrested for battery several times.
Does the sister have a history of violence too? Someone should just come in and separate them for a minute. It just seems like they should not be
living together.
PINSKY: And, again, with the enmeshment, Judy, the intensity is abnormal.
HO: That`s right. And that`s the thing, there`s so much history between these sisters. The competitiveness of identical twins, even if you`re
really close, that`s ultimately going to be there because people treat you in a certain way that makes you compete.
PINSKY: All right, DVR us please, then you can watch us any time. And up next the show called "GROWING AMERICA" and it begins now.
END
