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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Continuing Coverage And Analysis Of Hostage Situation in Sydney, Australia

Aired December 15, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Is there something that the leadership in the Muslim community can do better? Is there something they can do more in order to somehow tent down the notion that this is glorified, religious duty?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST OF FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: I think that the Australian Muslim community has been very good and coming out very strongly. The Muslim Community of Australia is very moderate, very secular, mostly Lebanese people who fled persecution. I think that you need to share more denunciations, you need to hear people say, "We do not want Islam to become this political, radical version of Islam to become this catch all ideology of discontent and grievance and violence. But it's very difficult to know what you do in advance.

You know, I do think there needs to be a greater attention paid by moderate Muslim leaders to the idea, "Let's take this on as an ongoing thing. Let's not just be denouncing this the day after the --

BANFIELD: Right. Maybe work with the law enforcement community to se where there may be troubles spots in the making.

ZAKARIA: And start articulating, you know, a kind of forceful ideology that says Islam is about moderation, it's about peace, it's about respect for life. And then when you have these craziness going out there, they do not -- and they do -- exactly. Takes up a kit and they don't represent us. So, you know, you hear it now more often than not, a lot more than one did 10 years ago. But it's usually just a day after the event. What I mean is maybe this needs to be something that is taken on as a day in, day out practice.

BANFIELD: And proactive. Excellent as always, Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much. And (inaudible), thank you as well for your thoughts, (inaudible). It's always good to have you both in the program.

In the aftermath of that hostage siege, we saw several people being taken away on stretchers. It is something very frightening for family members who have been waiting and holding vigil for their loved ones to come out of that cafe. Just ahead, you're going to get the latest from a reporter who is at a briefing for the family members of the Australian police.

You'll learn what they learned, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: I want to update you on the bloody end with 16-hour hostage ordeal in downtown Sydney, Australia. A source is telling CNN, the gunman is in fact among at least two people killed when Australian police and special forces stormed the Lindt Chocolate Cafe a little more than two hours ago.

The Australian media say at least three people are seriously hurt after the storming. The takedown coming just moments after five or more hostages either were able to escape or were allowed to go free. Earlier, five others had ran free.

The gunman is identified as Man Haron Monis, a 50-year old Iranian refugee and self-proclaimed Muslim cleric. Hi criminal past includes recent allegations of sex crimes and accessory to the murder of his ex-wife.

I want to show you one more time how this incredible ending actually played out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got something going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like four or five hostages have managed to either escape or be removed from the Lindt Cafe where they were being held hostages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More pictures now coming through. It looks like there's more activity going on. Shawn (ph), tell us what's happening now.

SHAWN (ph): Look, you can probably hear the loud explosions behind me. I --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

SHAWN (ph): I don't know if it's gunfire. I don't know if it's some sort of a small explosive device from - now that is certainly gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're throwing something, Shawn (ph).

SHAWN (ph): It something just -- in place. The police are throwing something?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are. They're throwing something into the doorway.

SHAWN (ph): In situations --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we've just seen another hostage going out.

SHAWN (ph): It might a stun grenade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A woman has been brought out.

SHAWN (ph): Yes. (Inaudible). Yes, that might well be a stun grenade in this situation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can see a woman their form these live pictures from Martin Place being carried out by officers.

SHAWN (ph): I can just see now -- I don't know whether you can see on this live shot, a whole bunch of paramedics are running up Martin Place. So they're entering form Elizabeth Street, and they're running up Martin Place towards the Lindt Cafe. I've counted at least four stretchers --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We can see that on the march (ph) up there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ambulances are rising through, passed us now, bringing patients out. We had an ambulance driver just ask some camera people to move out of the way because they had a patient that they needed to bring out. They then turnaround and (inaudible). I saw multiple ambulances coming out, rising out of the same just a moment ago. And shortly after, about three police cars racing towards the city, towards the center of the scene.

I can smell the gunfire in the air. It's really quite an incredible theme. The city is still deadly silenced apart from the sirens and the (inaudible) form where I am, and the occasional volley of ammunitions, of gun fires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We may be all watching this unfold from the United States and around the world, that the reporters in Sydney are seeing this happen first-hand, right (inaudible) in the middle of their hometown, and I'm joined by one of them.

On the phone, reporter for Australian radio 2GB, Tiffiny Genders. Tiffiny, thanks so much for joining me. I understand you're at the courthouse right and that's the location of where the families were brought so that police could brief some about what's happening. Can you bring me up to speed on what's happening with them?

TIFFINY GENDERS, 2GB REPORTER: Right. Well, the families of the hostages are being held inside a courthouse, which is only about three or 400 meters and two blocks from where that siege was unfolding for some 16 hours. Now the families are being regularly briefed by police during the day. Their counsel is here on hand, obviously, speaking to these families about what their loved ones have gone through and how to deal with that shock and the care (ph) that they must be feeling.

Now, when that gunfire erupted, you have to understand, these has all happened in the middle of the night over here in Sydney. And there is a huge excursion (ph) going around the city so there is no one around. And when that gunfire erupted, it was deafening bang that echoed throughout the entire city. Now, being only 300 meter or 400 meters away, the families could hear that and I ran outside and we're all huddling together, hugging each other. I guess hearing that gunshot and not -- gunfire and not knowing what was going was been incredibly stressful for them. However, ambulance paramedics have arrived at the courthouse here. And we presume that some of the family members are being treated inside.

BANFIELD: So, Tiffiny, one of those family members, I -- if I understand correctly and please correct me if I am wrong. You've been able to speak with a family member of one of those hostages who actually took a shrapnel to the leg, can you get me up to speed on how they're doing and how informed they are about the condition of their loved one?

GENDERS: Yes. That's right. You might see some vision coming out of when the siege ended of a woman of curly hair being carried out. She appears to have her legs straightened. She was carried out by police. And I've been speaking to one of her relatives. They're of course relieved that she has made it OK. She has suffered some shrapnel wounds to the leg and has been taken to hospital.

It seems pretty hard to get some information from police because of (course this is a huge task for them and they haven't wanted to release a lot of details because for operational reasons. However they had being I kept in the low, but during those regular police briefings and now they can sense of it really just turned to the recovery of their love once.

BANFIELD: And then the other question I had for you because as I understand at you at one point were at the hospital as the injured were being brought in and we had reports that at seven people were taken out of the cafe on stretchers. Five of them appeared to be receiving treatment immediately as they we being taken to the ambulances. It's unclear what the conditions of those five are, or whether the person who died is one of those five, but what was the scene as the ambulances arrive at the hospital?

GENDERS: Look, all hospitals across Sydney had been put on standby and alert. Now is that one of the hospitals in a city not far from where I guess the siege all unfolded. Now, I know that at least three people - it's hard to get exact numbers but we should get an update from police in about half an hour and get those definite numbers, but we do know that a police officer was injured.

We know that several others suffered gunshot wounds, they've been taken, I guess to the major trauma hospital across Sydney to get the attention that they need. And of course police have actually flooded the hospital to give the security that is needed now as these hostages get the care that they really require.

BANFIELD: And I just want to make sure I got that straight, you said that it is apparent that there is a police officer who is injured and or are the police releasing that information?

GENDERS: No. And no official information has been release at this stage. We've also heard in the past couple of minutes unconfirmed report that a third person has died, however that is yet to be confirmed. But police will be holding a press conference in about 15 minutes with the police chief of New South Wales and some of our important leaders and we will get some confirmation and some definite numbers of how many are injured. It's very unclear at the moment, it was quite frenzy as you could imagine and people have been taken to various hospitals across to city so, we should get all of that information presented to us in about 15 minutes.

BANFIELD: And as Tiffiny give us this reporting from 2GB Radio in Australia, just again, I want to reiterate that there is some reporting that a police officer's been injured but perhaps that will be come more clear during that live press conference we're expecting, and that other possibility there may have been an additional death, not confirmed yet, but will look to see what are CNN international desk can chase down. And then also within 15 minutes, hopefully, clarity on that.

Just one last question what before I leave you Tiffiny, the family members of all of those who are in there for the 16 hours. Where are they all now and are they at the forefront of the briefing, do they know everything yet?

GENDERS: Look, we're being held back quite far from the family. The only contact I have has been is been phone calls and text messages. I know that some of the families have gone to hospitals to be the bedside of their loved ones who our taking treatment for gunshot wounds, shrapnel wounds. We know that there was some, you know, some gunfire that erupted and possibly at some other ways (inaudible) during that confrontation. Many of the families are still here at the court house, they are receiving counseling, they are being spoken to by police and the ambulance paramedics at the moment.

BANFIELD: Oh, I can imagine that unbelievably need for counseling not only what they went through for those 16 hours but that offly terrifying take down with the stand grenades and the gunfire and the SWAT teams and of course the imagines that they will never forget Tiffiny Genders excellent reporting, thank you so much for taking time to be with us. I really appreciate it.

Tiffiny Genders from 2GB radio in Australia joining us live and she just mention as I want to reiterate, there will be a news conference close to the top of the hour. CNN's going to cover this live, were awaiting it as well, the authorities in Australia so, some of the community leaders are going to hold the news conference with the police to update us on some of those circulating stories.

Up until now, the only confirmation we have is that the hostage taker is dead. Another person is dead, whether there is a third fatality, we don't know that to be cleared just yet. We also don't know if one of these fatalities or one of the injured is a police officer, but that will hopefully be cleared at the top of the hour as well. We do know this, that the hostage taker was demanding an ISIS flag before he was shot dead. And had the hostages hold up the flag with an Islamic saying on it as well.

So, did he have any ties with ISIS really and did it matter when it right comes down to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. We're learning a lot more about the Sydney gunman and what he was demanding from inside that cafe where he held his hostages. He demanded an ISIS flag and he posted a black flag in the shop window. You can see it here, it has Arabic writing on it and the reading is, "There is no God but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God."

Peter Bergen, CNN's National Security Analyst in Washington. I wanted to ask you about the significance of that flag in the action wording on that flag, take me into the importance of that.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Ashleigh, it's a profession of faith of you know more than a billion Muslims, you know. And so it's the essential doctrine of Islam but there is only one God that Muhammad is his messenger so, you know it's in a way very highly offensive but it's been use in the context of this terrorist action here in Sydney.

Now, that phrase is use on a ISIS flag, it's also been use on al-Qaeda flags in Syria, and you know, it's sort of been adopted this black and white flag by a number of a jihadi groups, but the fact is it's also use on the Saudi Arabian national flag, you know so, you know, it shouldn't be associated with terrorism as a bottom line.

BANFIELD: Yes, and I'm not sure if I have my wires cross, but this is called the Shahada, it is the testimony and it's an Islamic creed, The first of Islam's Five Pillars of Faith and I think if you want to make a connection it would be may be considered equal to what Christians considered the Lords prayer. Is it also the same thing that some terrorist use to separate Muslims from non Muslim in some of this terrorist incident, they asked them to recite this creed and if they can't, they're putting in the group that is going to die.

BERGEN: Yes, I think we have seen reports of that where terrorist groups, you know, I mean if you -- any Muslim would know the profession of faith just as you say, Ashleigh. You know, any Christian knows a little (inaudible). So, it would be a pretty effective way of separating out people that they termed believers and nonbelievers. Do they refer to as (inaudible) infedals essentially.

BANFIELD: One important distinction to make a clarification I think is critical here. The fact that that might appear anywhere around the United States, anywhere around the world, it shouldn't make people afraid. It is -- like I said, if you were to see the Lord's prayer and someone bastardizing it, it shouldn't make anyone afraid if they see that script, that text or they hear it.

BERGEN: Sure. I mean, as I've said -- look, I mean, you go to Saudi Arabia, the Saudi flag is basically that writing on a green background and, you know, there's no reason to be afraid in Saudi Arabia -- so, you know, it is being provided (ph) in this instance.

BANFIELD: Peter Bergen, it's always good to see you. I'm sorry under this circumstances, it seems to be so often the case but time your expertise is widely appreciated. Peter Bergen, Washington, thank you. BERGEN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: It such a harrowing situation at that cafe, but somehow, something good is coming out of it. A trend of Twitter inspiring outreach and solidarity and love and appreciation, we're going to explain about this #illridewithyou mean.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: In the face of this terrifying situation, an uplifting message is emerging. It's the #illridewithyou, and it's really trending on Twitter. It's written to Muslims in Sydney from people who are offering to walk with them or to ride the bus with them or to ride transit if they're fearing a backslash because of what's happened inside that cafe.

Laurie Segall joins me live now with more. So, how did this happen? Where did it start?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: It such a moving story in light of such a tragedy. A woman named Rachael Jacobs, and she later posted about this on here Facebook page, but she was apparently on a train. And she saw a woman and let me read you actually exactly what she said, she said, "The presumably Muslim woman sitting next to me on the train silently removes her hijab," that's her religious attire. I ran after her at the train station. I said, 'Put it back on. I'll walk with you'. She started to cry and hugged me for about a minute then walked off alone."

So, it's this nice story a woman who hearing about this attacks, she feared anti-Muslims sentiment as a backslash. And this woman said, "You know what, keep your religious attire on. We are tolerant people." She posted about it on Facebook, another T.V. editor picked it up and she posted, "If anyone's going on a train at this time, #illridewithyou."

It is been all over Twitter. I mean -- we're talking thousands of tweets a minute with people saying I'll ride with you. And the idea behind them, let's take a step back, is light of terrorism or, you know, racially-motivated, religiously-motivated attack, you know, the idea is Australia is coming together and saying, "We're tolerant and we won't, you know, we will challenge this with peace."

BANFIELD: I'm just trying to do the math in terms of when this could have possibly started given that the incidence perhaps was only 16- hours.

SEGALL: I know, you know, this trended -- it stared trending in Australia in the evening, right? And we are talking -- if you go and look right now on Twitter and I was doing a quick search, you are still seeing in your feed so many people, just coming out with these different stories of I'll ride with you and what happen when they tweeted it.

You know, one person actually, with the #illridewithyou posted on Facebook, saying, you know, I think he said something along the lines of terrorism won't win in Australia, we'll win with tolerance. And it this idea that you can have a message and you can make it trend in such a positive way during such a horrific time.

BANFIELD: And Tony Blair or rather I should say the Prime Minister of Australia actually came out right after this and said, "Look, business as usual?"

SEGALL: Yes.

BANFIELD: Get back to normal and don't let this affect you, so perhaps --

SEGALL: Yeah.

BANFIELD: -- you know, personified by that first person who did that tweet. Laurie, thank you for that, I really appreciated.

And just to quickly recap what's happening, I want to get you up to speed. We're watching for this live news conference, it's going to happen any moment. There been a lot of the stories that have come out about the dead and injured in this incident and still it's a bit hazy. But that maybe about to be cleared up by authorizes.

I want to thank you for watching and insist that you can consider staying with Wolf Blitzer who's going to come up right after this short break because he's going to update you on the hostage situation. And the Austrian police will have that live news conference right at the top of the hour. Thank you so much for watching everyone. Wolf after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)