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At This Hour

Jeb Bush Announces Presidential Exploration; Hostage Called Hero in Australia; Bill Cosby's Wife Speaks Out; Hackers Making Threats in Hollywood.

Aired December 16, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A new development on the attack in Pakistan, an attack on a school in Peshawar by the Pakistani Taliban. The death toll is rising. We can now report 141 people have been killed in this attack and 132 of those killed were students at the school. The nine others were stabbed. 132 were students. They were kids killed in this barbaric attack in Pakistan and I think there's every reason to think that it's possible this death toll will only go up. A tragedy.

Shifting gears now, some very big news in the political world. In fact, I venture to say the biggest news yet in the race for 2016. Jeb Bush sent out a tweet and a Facebook posting that changes everything. Let me read you what it says, it says, "I have decided to actively explore the possibility of running for president of the United States." Yes, it's a little bit of a hedge, still it's a major development creating shock waves all through the political world.

I want to bring in our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

Gloria, we knew this was likely. He'd been doing things the last few days that you only do if you're thinking about running for president. Nevertheless, to me, at least, this is the first big move of the 2016 race.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: If you've watched the evolution of Jeb Bush, it's been the evolution of someone who, I would say last summer most people were saying even folks close to him were saying it's 50-50 at best Jeb would run and now as he's inched closer to this over the weekend releasing 250,000 e-mails from when he was governor saying he was going to write an e-book, now saying he's going to establish a leadership PAC. I think he's looked at the field deciding he could beat anybody who might run. He's also decided this is his moment that he f he doesn't do it now he won't do it. I think he figures that this time a Bush might actually be able to be a Clinton.

BERMAN: He's not officially running, officially exploring.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Of course, but still, this has to make things different for people like Mitt Romney, for people like Christie, so-called establishment Republicans who are considering at different levels whether to get into the race. This throws down a big marker.

BORGER: You know what it does? It says to people who says the fund- raisers, the fat cats out there, OK, folks, I might be getting in this so before you start writing your checks or bundling that money for someone else here I am. What that means for Mitt Romney, for example, lots of funders saying maybe I think Romney is more likely to hold off. I always thought he was going to hold off. Much more likely to hang back and see how Jeb does, how Christie does. If they falter, he'd be happy to be a white knight and come in and rescue the party, right? Who wouldn't?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: True confessions, yeah. I never thought Jeb Bush was going to run so who knows?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Me, neither, until the last month.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: What we've seen Jeb do is in his public speeches he was muse z publicly, which is "I know I'm out of step with the Tea Party wing of the party," but so what? I believe in immigration reform, I believe in education reform. They don't like what I think but I am going to be willing to lose the primary as a way to win the general. I'm not going to become ma what Mitt Romney did people don't believe I actually have any core set of believes. He says he's running about his ideas to the people who are close to him he thinks he can do it by. The way he has the support of his family, I think even his mother at this point.

BERMAN: There is big must be there and a big name that helps in a crowded field. We'll see what happens next.

Gloria Borger, always great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

BORGER: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Ahead for us, the final moments inside that cafe in Australia. One hostage now being called a hero as new details surface about the man behind the terror. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: The shock is giving way to grief in Sydney, so many people finding it hard to keep their emotions in check, including reporters in the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Katrina Dowson was the sister of Sandy Dawson who's done some work with us for -- who --

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: A sister of one of our Channel 7 staff. UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Sandy Dawson, who I know and I have

friends who know her. She's a mother of three children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Journalist Natalie Barr crying as she learns one of the cafe standoff victims. Katrina Dawson is the sister of a colleague. So Sydney this morning is on alert after Monday's 16-hour ordeal.

There are questions @THISHOUR that so many people are asking that really need answers. Should the man responsible for the chaos and the carnage, should he have been free in the first place? 50-year-old Man Haron Monis had a toxic history with what many people consider red flags. That, as police try to prevent copycat crimes.

Sydney is in mourning as we said.

For more now, let's go to Andrew Stevens.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Throughout the day, people came to show their respect and mark their grief in flowers as an impromptu flower memorial grew in the heart of the city in recognition of what has been a traumatic 36 hours in the life of this city. We still don't know what happened in those final few moments inside the Lindt Cafe, but the police went in after hearing a gunshot and moments later two hostages were dead as well as the gunman. There's been reports that one of the hostages, the Lindt Cafe manager, Tori Johnson, tried to wrestle the gun from the gunman and lost his life during that struggle. Another hostage, a brilliant lawyer by the name of Katrina Dawson, the mother of three young children, also died. No details surrounding what happened to her. The prime minister of Australia, Tony Abbott, today saying this was the mark of a lone-wolf gunman.

TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: It's pretty obvious that the perpetrator was a deeply disturbed individual, a long history of crime, a long history of mental instability and infatuation with extremism.

STEVENS: This city is now starting to return to normal. Most of the roads have been reopened but you see the mark of this tragedy so very clearly and none more clearly than the flower memorial that throughout the night continued to grow.

Andrew Stevens, CNN, Sydney.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Andrew Stevens.

Ahead for us @THISHOUR, Bill Cosby's wife speaks out. A new statement going after the press and the women accusing her husband of misconduct. So what does this mean for all the allegations against Bill Cosby? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: A surprising new statement from the wife of Bill Cosby addressing the parade of accusations against her husband, the allegations of sexual assault. This is part of the statement. It says, "A different man has been portrayed in the media over the last two months. It's the portrait of a man I do not know. It's also a portrait painted by individuals and organizations whom many in the media have given a pass. There appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers before stories are published or aired. An accusation is published and immediately goes viral."

She also compared what's happening to her husband to the UVA story, the "Rolling Stone" article that there's so many questions about now.

We're joined by attorney and radio host, Mo Ivory; along with our legal analyst, Mel Robbins.

Mo, generally speaking when you've run out of other options you attack the press. Is that simply what's going on here? What do you make of this statement from Mrs. Cosby?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY & RADIO HOST: Well, first I want to say I'm not really sure it's her statement. You know, we don't know those are her words or the words that were made up by the lawyers that, you know, wanted to put something out for a response. But I really think that that is a woman who's been married to a man standing by her husband. She's been married to him for 50 years and those are, to me, statements that say "I don't necessarily know this person that everybody is talking about. I think he's receiving unfair treatment in the media." Which many people have said they thought people who do not believe the allegations say they think Bill Cosby is being attacked in the media. So I wouldn't expect her as the wife of Bill Cosby to say much else. But I think it's important to point out that she did not say he did not do it. And I think if you read the statement really get into it I think there's no admission or denial that these allegations are true or false but merely a statement by her saying that, you know, she thinks her husband is being treated unfairly.

BERMAN: Mel, you like mo are a lawyer. Should she have said somewhere in that note or how would it will v changed things if she said "he didn't do this, he didn't do any of this"?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (voice-over): John, good morning. Good morning, mo. It's an excellent question. I think this is a very benign statement and from a legal standpoint there's no allegation that she was a witness or had any knowledge to the allegations that Bill Cosby raped over 20 women. So her opinion about the entire thing as far as I'm concerned is immaterial from a legal standpoint. What I find fascinating, John, and I'm sure everybody at home is kind of thinking the same thing, and this is what would make a wife actually want to say something at all?

And so I've taken a step back and I've thought, OK, this reminds me a little bit of Sandusky's wife, remember, the guy in the Penn State scandal who's serving time behind bars. She still thinks her husband is innocent. She still thinks that all of those victims that came forward and testified were lying. And so if you are in a relationship with somebody who turns out to be a monster, you've got one of two choices. You either continue to live in a state of denial in which case your only choice is to defend the person or you do the much harder and courageous things which to face the truth. And you know the truth is we don't know what's going on behind closed doors in their marriage. They might have a very transactional relationship like the Sterlings said, remember, Mrs. Sterling said they've been married for 30 years, hadn't shared a bedroom, it wasn't emotional it was business. There's a lot of money involved in this relationship.

IVORY: And what we do -- I think that is such an important point because what we do know about the Cosby marriage is that Camille was aware that there were sexual allegations brought against him in 2006 when he settled with a woman in court and there were other women who came to support those allegations that that temple basketball coach alleged against him and she received a settlement.

So this is not brand new to Camille and Camille has also said in many interviews that she has lived with a man who has cheated on her before, has not always been true to their marriage hand an she has chosen as a wife, as a so I don't think we can discount that she's not a woman that has in the past acknowledged that her marriage to Bill Cosby has had its share of problems.

BERMAN: No. It's safe to say we do not know what is going on in their marriage behind closed doors and whatever relationship they truly have or conversations they truly have.

We can suspect, though, a point that Mo brought up in the beginning that this statement didn't go out without the full knowledge and approval and vetting of lawyers, probably the full knowledge and approval and vetting of public relations officials. So what d does it serve, Mel?

ROBBINS: I think it serves to try to address this consistent outcry, John, of a statement from Bill Cosby. I'm actually frankly surprised they released this. First of all, she's the wife. Nobody has any reason to believe her. Secondly, to say the UVA -- this is like the UVA case with the "Rolling Stone" -- there's a difference here. "Rolling Stone" never reached out to the alleged attackers. The media has been asking Bill Cosby every day to make a statement and he's refusing to talk about it. So I don't think that this is a good legal move. I don't think anybody buys what she has to say. And I think if I were Bill Cosby's lawyer, I would tell them both to keep their mouths shut.

BERMAN: Mel Robbins, Mo Ivory, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate your comments.

On a side note, it was a very busy year here in the news. CNN wants to know what you think the top story was this year. So tell us. Go to CNN.com and vote. There will be snacks.

Ahead @THISHOUR, hackers cracking into Sony Entertainment, stealing Social Security numbers, leaking movie secrets, leaking celebrity items. It's salacious stuff. Sony says it's being blackmailed and wants us, the press, to ignore all this material. Should people back off? Tweet us what you think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: New developments this morning in a one-sided battle that's getting down right nasty. Hollywood verses the hackers or more accurately, hackers versus Hollywood. Right now, seems like the hackers are scoring all the points and making all the threats after the deluge of secrets from Sony have spilled out into the public domain. There are fears a new round could be coming any day.

Our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, has the very latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Take him out.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You want us to kill the leader of North Korea?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As it's Christmas Day release draws nearer, mounting pressure from the hackers, raising the question, will Sony give in to their demands and pull what they call the movie of terrorism.

There are growing suspicions that North Korea is behind the cyber attack, prompting concerns over political pressure. According to "The New York Times," even before the movie was finished, Sony's CEO asked for certain scenes in the movie to be toned down or not shown outside the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this is a good time to withdraw. I think it's a good time to stand your ground.

STELTER: While the Sony hackers promise a Christmas gift of yet another juicy and possibly worse data bump, Sony is asking news organizations to ignore the leaked e-mails. The studio now hiring David Boles, a high-profile litigator, to demand that news organizations not reveal any further hacked material. In a letter that CNN received, Boles writes, "If you do not comply with this request and the stolen information is used or disseminated by you in any manner, Sony will have no choice but to hold you responsible."

ANDREW WLLENSTEIN, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, VARIETY MAGAZINE: Essentially, we've done their bidding, maximized the exposure to this content. I don't do that lightly. But on the other hand it was going to get out there anyway, we have to be part of the conversation.

STELTER: In the letter, Sony strongly suggests they are being blackmailed not to release the interview because the comedy pokes fun at a plot to assassinate Kim Jong-Un.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You want us to kill Kim Jong-Un? STELTER: This just weeks after hackers broke into the studio's

computer systems and published millions of controversial and inflammatory e-mails.

OPRAH WINFREY, CEO, OPRAH WINFREY NETWORK: I would hope we would not stand in judgment, in such harsh judgment of a moment in time where somebody was hacked and their private conversations were put before the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me now.

The big question, Brian, is what are we supposed to do with all this now, all this information that's been leaked out? There is one man who has a very, very strong opinion, it's a man who has a strong opinion on the media --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: A lot of things.

BERMAN: -- Aaron Sorkin, the screenwriter. Listen to what he told NBC earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON SORKIN, SCREENWRITER: There are certainly times when the press has an obligation to publish things that were stolen. The Pentagon Papers, but you don't even have to use that as your standard. Loosen the standards a little bit. Is there anything in these e-mails at all that's in the public interest that points to wrongdoing at the company? That helps anyone in any way? There isn't. There's just gossip there. You can loosen the standards even more. But ultimately you have to dispense with standards entirely in order to be OK with publishing these e-mails.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He's in a bunch of this stuff.

STELTER: He is. He's not an impartial observer. There are embarrassing e-mails involving him, as there are lots and lots of other people. It's not that he didn't know how he talks. It's that now we're learning about it. I hear what he's saying, we're not exposing corporate wrongdoing. But there are lots of other measurements of newsworthiness. But these e-mails are newsworthy.

BERMAN: It's hard. It's a slippery slope and shadow here. What about Donald Sterling?

STELTER: Some of them belong in both sites like TMZ and "The New York Times."

BERMAN: And some say made movies thing about Julian Assange, the distinction between state secrets and corporate secrets. STELTER: But it's the journalists looking at the information already

in public view. I think we need to use restraint. Brad Pitt said recently his wife, Angelina Jolie, was caught a spoiled brat in one of these e-mails. Here's what he said, "We shouldn't be participated and the sites disseminating them, should stop but they don't. And we should stop reading them. We won't. It's more of an indictment on us, I think."

These are celebrities and executives that people want to know about.

BERMAN: I often confuse you with Brad Pitt --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: That's not the first time I've heard that.

BERMAN: Brian, quickly, is Sony talking about what it's going to do with this film that may have spawned this whole mess?

STELTER: Christmas Day. It's still coming out on Christmas day. No plans to scrap that. They've already had the premiere in Hollywood. We haven't seen as many press interviews. Maybe they'll be careful about what they say on the red carpet. But the movie is coming out.

BERMAN: I learned today it is not being released in Japan. That's interesting.

STELTER: That's right.

BERMAN: Brian Stelter, always great to have you with us.

STELTER: Thank you.

BERMAN: For more, check out CNNmoney.com.

And that's all for us @THISHOUR.

"Legal View" with Pamela Brown starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.