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Dr. Drew
Bill Cosby`s Daughter Defends Her Dad; Mom Dressed Up Child as Dog for Punishment; LA County DA Will Not Charge Cosby; Kathie Lee Gifford Speaks Out Against Bill Cosby; Lost Sex Toy
Aired December 16, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Bill Cosby`s daughter defends her dad and warns the accusers they could end up in jail.
Then this mom dressed her little boy up in drag and posted a picture of the anguished child on Facebook. Let us get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, good evening, everyone. My co-host tonight is Samantha Schacher. And, we have some breaking news. Breaking news in the Bill
Cosby case. The Los Angeles County District attorney will not charge Bill Cosby for an alleged incident, 40 years ago.
In 1974, a woman who was 15 then, accused him of raping her or having had raped her at the Playboy Mansion. Meanwhile, Cosby, his wife, Camille, and
now his daughter, Evin, speaking publicly about the accusations against him. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEVERLY JOHNSON, COSBY ACCUSER: What I want to see happen is that women come out and speak their truths.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Camille Cosby says, "He is a kind man, a generous man, a funny man and a wonderful husband, father and friend. He
is the man you thought you knew."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Cosby remained silent until Friday when he spoke to Stacy Brown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEIN VIDEO CLIP)
STACY BROWN, "NEW YORK POST" REPORTER: I simply just called him up, and he answered the phone, much to my surprise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We have a statement that Cosby reportedly gave you, Stacy. It said, quote, "Let me say this. I only expect the black media to uphold the
standards of excellence in journalism and when you do that, you have to go in with a neutral mind."
BROWN: This guy is either totally innocent or totally insane. I came away from the discussion with him believing that here is a man who really wanted
to tell his story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Evin Cosby tells Access Hollywood, quote -- this is daughter saying about the dad. "He is the father you thought you knew. The `Cosby
Show` was my today`s T.V. reality show." Meaning that the show we saw on television was her reality. "I would like to say that, smiley face,"
closed quote. Sam, she has also taken to Facebook, right?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: Yes. She has, Dr. Drew. So, first of all she took a screenshot of trending topics, because her mom, Camille, was a
trending topic. Then she posted that screenshot with a caption, "Go mom trending." OK?
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: Then she wrote and apparently also removed this. Quote, "Rape is a serious allegation and it is supposed to be taken very seriously, but
so is falsely accusing someone. When someone rapes a person, they go to prison. That should also happen to the person that was wrongfully accused
as an innocent victim." Now there is another one. This one referring to - -
PINSKY: Now, she is -- She is getting threatening to the accusations.
SCHACHER : Yes. She is defending her dad. Absolutely.
PINSKY: By threatening the women --
SCHACHER: Yes. The victims.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: Yes. In quotes, she would say.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
SCHACHER: So, then the next one is, apparently, referring to Beverly Johnson. This one is also now gone. Removed. Quote, "Drugged - You can
remember the whole damn day but you were drugged? Just saying. Memory - You can remember you looked at (allegedly) each other. People were staring
allegedly remembering your home address, allegedly the name you called him but you were allegedly drugged."
PINSKY: All right. Let us get the panel in here. Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com, Karamo Brown host of #Ownshow on
Oprah.com, Tiffany Smith, host and reporter. And, Anahita, what do you make of this breaking news? The decision on the part of the district
attorney not to charge Cosby in that -- what is a long-ago case, 1974.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, T.V. LEGAL ANALYST/ DEFENSE ATTRORNEY: Exactly. The statute of limitations has passed, so it is too late for them to bring the
claim even if they found enough evidence to move forward, Dr. Drew. And, let me just touch upon --
PINSKY: Wait. Wait. Wait. I thought there was no --
SCHACHER: She was 15.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: I thought that, that could be waived because of the fact that she was under age.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no. Apparently, I read what the police report stated. And, they stated any potential crime that he may have committed, the
statute for those particular misdemeanors has expired.
PINSKY: So, that is it.
SEDAGHATFAR: They did not find evidence of a rape from what I recall. It would have been molestation I believe in the statute has run.
PINSKY: I see. OK. And, is there any -- it seems like a lot of the civil stuff is what is swirling around him. Does he have some civil issues
there?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no. I think the statute of limitations has run for civil claims. And, that is why you have Gloria Allred who is allegedly
representing some of these alleged victims. Going on the record, going to the media, asking Bill Cosby to waive the statute of limitations defense,
so that these women could sue him and that he could have his day in court, which is frankly preposterous.
PINSKY: What do you think they should do? What should they do?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no one -- no potential defendant in a lawsuit, Dr. Drew, is going to waive their right to use that as a defense. He would
essentially be saying, "OK, let me open the door so you can sue me and I can spend millions and millions of dollars fighting a civil lawsuit."
PINSKY: Karamo?
KARAMO BROWN, TELEVISION HOST: Come on. If you want to protect your name, then he should go ahead and do that. This silence is what is killing him.
His silence is what is creating this whole media frenzy and this silence is the reason that I will continuously support the survivors in this case.
Because as long as he is staying silent, I am going to believe that he is guilty 100 percent.
PINSKY: Tiffany, what do you say?
TIFFANY SMITH, HOST AND REPORTER: I just feel like -- I mean he did an interview back in November. And, I guess they asked him about, kind of,
the rape rumors that were going around. And, he basically gave her a response and then later came back and said, "This news outlet should be
more respectable and would not want them to ask this question, so please take my response away."
I feel like, the response from his family is enough at this point. I am from a really close-knit family. So, if there was some trauma that we were
going through, we would get together and you know, present a united front.
PINSKY: Tiffany, even if one of them -- you had reason to believe that, let us say, a sibling or an uncle or something that engaged in criminal
action with victimization of women?
SMITH: Well, if they did really engage in that and that was the truth, I certainly would not come out and say he did not do it.
PINSKY: You would not do that. OK.
SMITH: I certainly would not come out and attack other people. I would not.
PINSKY: Karamo.
BROWN: Tiffany, that is exactly what is happening here, Tiffany.
SMITH: No.
BROWN: You cannot trust --
SMITH: You are assuming that his daughter is lying.
BROWN: You cannot trust his daughter or his wife. Their identity is linked to his identity. And, for them to come out and say that he was
wrong is for them to say that they were part of this lie. That they saw what was going on. They did not stop it. And, no woman is going to sit
here and say that, that happen. So, of course, they are going to lie about this.
(CROSSTALKS)
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, my goodness! Where is any physical -- you guys. Karamo, you are doing exactly what you are accusing his wife and daughter of doing.
They are making judgments with zero evidence --
SMITH: Assumptions.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- I think it would be absolutely ridiculous for Bill Cosby to make any statement, whether it is to the public, whether it is to the
media, because guess what? People like you and his critics would analyze and dissect --
BROWN: I disagree.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- every single word that he says.
BROWN: I disagree. I am not going to.
SEDAGHATFAR: He could not win.
BROWN: If this man speaks up and he says that he does not do it. And, then if he allows the police and allows justice to take its course, I will
believe him.
SEDAGHATFAR: You would not believe him.
BROWN: Yes, I will.
SEDAGHARFAR: You would not believe him, because everyone has made up their mind --
BROWN: I have not made up my mind. All I know is that right now with him being silent, I am going to protect and stand up for the survivors. That
is it.
PINSKY: Tiffany, what is going on?
SMITH: But you have made up your mine. You have made up your mind.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
SMITH: Because, a minute ago when I was talking about the wife and daughter, you were saying that they were lying. They are not.
BROWN: Well, that is because they are family. Family is going to -- when your identity is linked to another man, you are going to lie. You just
said it yourself. You said that if a family member of yours committed a crime, that you would not speak up. That was your words.
SMITH: No. No. No. I said I would not speak up and lie for them. I would speak up and say we are presenting a united front --
PINSKY: All right.
SMITH: This is what happened, but we are still a family.
PINSKY: Anahita, one of the things that is happening now is that people are looking back through the retrospectoscope.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: You know, looking back in time at Mr. Cosby`s behavior. And, sort of looking at it now maybe differently than they might have in the past
based on the allegations. The latest woman to come out is Kathie Lee Gifford from NBC. She was his opening act for years and told the following
story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHIE LEE GIFFORD, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I will admit towards the very, very end of the last time I saw him, he did try to kiss me. I said no. I
said, "Bill, we are friends." He goes, "OK, good night." I said, "Good night." And, I went into my room. He went into his room. And, then --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Anahita, some at least inappropriate touching out of wedlock, yes? You would agree with that?
SEDAGHATFAR: So what, Dr. Drew? At least, reportedly, reportedly. OK? Reportedly. So, what? I am just saying. So, there is that. That is how
people get into trouble. They start doing things that people look at and go, "I wonder what else is going on or maybe that is how they get in
trouble." I do not know.
What was inappropriate about that? In 1970, Bill Cosby tried to kiss a women that he found attractive. Look, I am not saying that these women are
lying, that he did not rape these women and drug these women. But, I also feel that a lot of these women are perhaps coming forward to jump on the
bandwagon and try to get their 15 minutes of fame.
PINSKY: No!
SCHACHER: How do you actually benefit from that, though?
PINSKY: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
SCHACHER: But, how do you actually benefit from that?
SEDAGHATFAR: Because it happens in every time there is a high profile case with a celebrity or someone with a deep pocket. There are going to be
women, sadly that come out of the wood work and lie.
PINSKY: Anahita, if I suddenly, after you came out of that flash studio, started trying to kiss you or grope you or Sam, you would not think
differently of me all of a sudden?
SCHACHER: Amen.
PINSKY: You would not think or wonder what else I am capable of or what else going on?
SCHACHER: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: I would not think you were a rapist.
PINSKY: Yes. But, you would wonder what was --
SEDAGHATFAR: I would not.
SMITH: There was also no groping.
PINSKY: What is that Tiffany?
SMITH: There was no groping. She never said that. I mean I do not -- As a woman, how many of my guy friends at some point where it is like a moment
of being around them for a long time, they are like, "Hey! I am interested." And, you are like, "No, pass" --
BROWN: But, this goes into character.
SMITH: -- Just because of that one instance.
SCHACHER: Right.
BROWN: Tiffany, this goes into character. If he is a married man, this leads us to believe what his character is like. I am not going to cheat on
my wife. And, you saying that you are going to kiss your co-worker? That is letting me know that there is something wrong with your character and
how you proceed.
SEDAGHATFAR: Then every men is a potential rapist --
SMITH: But that does not mean --
SEDAGHATFAR: -- because most men statistically cheat.
BROWN: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: I said then every man is a potential rapist because most men statistically cheat on their spouses.
SCHACHER: But, Anahita, most victims of rape and sexual assault, guess what? They do not say anything. So, why is there even a statute of
limitations any way? It takes so much time even to come out and speak about it.
PINSKY: Yes. Counselor --
SEDAGHATFAR: I can response.
PINSKY: I would rather you not.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Thanks, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: We have taken this to places I never thought we would go. But, the question still remains. Although we have been dancing around this
issue of character, and that is sort of the point. It is not at the material issue of rape, which is what the counselor is trying to get to us
to come to terms with.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Although, what it described --
SCHACHER: Is that we are going to start referring to Anahita, as the counselor?
SEDAGHATFAR: Counselor.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: She told me during the break. That is why I have to talk to her from now.
SCHACHER: OK. OK.
PINSKY: But, that still does not mean somebody is drugging somebody, raping somebody; but the way these women describe it, you have to, it still
is out there as something where everyone wonders what went down. And, they need evidence to the contrary. And, he is really the only one who can
provide that evidence, it seems to me. He denies it but mostly being pretty -- next up.
(LAUGHING)
How would you feel if your spouse told you -- And, this is just a sort of spiraling out of the Cosby case. Your spouse told you that he or she, I
guess, mostly this is men that have this preference, preferred sex while you, the spouse, was asleep. I will talk to a man who had to break that
news to his wife.
And, later, a sex toy disappears. Where did it go? I will tell you. A frank discussion later in the hour. Tiffany, close your ears. We will
have that discussion later. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANICE DICKINSON, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: It was red wine. It was a pill. The last thing I remember I had blacked out and Cosby mounting me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOAN TARSHIS, ONE OF COSBY`S ACCUSERS: He made me a drink and very shortly after that, I just -- I passed out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Cosby`s reported drugging of these alleged victim has some wondering if he has something called somniphilia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Somnophiliac is someone who is aroused by sex with a person who is asleep or unconscious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY PACE, SOMNOPHILIAC: Traditional intercourse, actually, does not allow me to reach orgasms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I have not heard of it and I am sad that I even have heard of it now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
SCHACHER: The scholar who coined the term somnophilia describes it as a type of sexual fetishism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)\
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PACE: I have done this with about three or four women with, you know, full 100 percent consent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I - I -- I am like crickets here. This is brand new for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Wendy Walsh, Psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox;" Elisa Donovan, actress/People Magazine
blogger. You of course know her from the film "Clueless."
ELISA DONOVAN, ACTRESS/PEOPLE MAGAZINE BLOGGER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, Spirit, talk show host, psychotherapist. Somnophilia, it is a paraphilia, a type of fetishism where arousals motivated almost
exclusively by sex with someone who is asleep or unconscious. I will be speaking to someone who identifies to somnophilia. He is a married man.
But, first, Sam, we asked our Facebook fans if they thought Bill Cosby had this condition. What do they say?
SCHACHER: They are not buying it, Dr. Drew, and in fact they are pissed that we even floated the idea. So, Twyla writes, quote --
PINSKY: Floated?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: OK. I had to stop you there.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: All right, thank you. Twyla writes, quote, "Why does there have to be a type of condition for everything -- sounds like Vanessa -- Maybe he
is just a perverted human being that drugs and rapes women because he likes it. Stop giving this creep a way out. He is a rapist." Debbie writes,
quote, "Just a predator drugging with simply a way of getting the sex he wanted without having to work for it."
PINSKY: A. These are allegations still. B. Those are certainly reasonable possibilities. C. Sam, why? If we are trying to understand what might
create certain behaviors, does immediately do everyone jump to the notion that we are excusing behaviors.
It is literally like saying if I was trying to understand the red coming off your pants and I analyzed the textile and I looked at how light was
refracted. And, people like, "How dare you interrupt the experience of red." No, you still have the experience of red. I just want to understand
the experience of red.
SCHACHER: Right. Right.
PINSKY: Is that so crazy?
SCHACHER: It is not crazy, but I cannot understand it.
PINSKY: Why people not primitive, they cannot understand.
SCHACHER: OK. So, then I guess I would be primitive, because I can understand when you are labeling something, even though you are not making
an excuse. You are actually calling it what it is.
PINSKY: I am trying to understand it.
SCHACHER: I know, but then you are afraid to that person will kind of have like an excuse out.
PINSKY: No excuse.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: No excuse. If you are excuse -- you do not have an excuse for having the condition. You have an excuse for indulging it and not getting
treatment for it. That is your problem. You made a giant error if you are doing stuff that is not good because of a condition.
SCHACHER: Do you like my red pants?
PINSKY: I do like them?
SCHACHER: Ok. Good.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: David is on the phone. He identifies as a somnophiliac. He is 26. He has been married for a year and a half. And, David, how did you
introduce this fetish to your wife?
DAVE, SOMNOPHILIAC: Actually, it came with, I asked her to do something to me while I was asleep because I find that arousing as well.
PINSKY: Oh, that is interesting.
DAVE: Yes. So, instead of me just introducing it to her, I was tired and I said I was going to go to sleep. And, I just kind of threw it out as,
"Hey, feel free to do something if you want."
PINSKY: Did she do it?
DAVE: And, she was kind of like -- And at first she was kind of --
PINSKY: Did she even understand --
DAVE: What is that?
PINSKY: Did she even understand what you meant by that?
DAVE: Yes, because we had been, we were talking about it before that. And, it was in the context of the conversation.
PINSKY: Yes.
DAVE: So, she understood what I meant. And, she kind of laughed and she did not take it as anything seriously. And, basically --
PINSKY: You were quite serious about it. How far back can you -- when did you first noticed it --
DAVE: No, no. She --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
DAVE: She took it seriously. When I say she did not take it seriously. I do not mean that she thought that I was joking. I mean she did not look at
it as anything wrong or bad.
PINSKY: Right.
DAVE: She was just --
PINSKY: OK.
DAVE: Yes.
PINSKY: So she, as you introduced this, did not come up with the feeling or the sense that this was a violation or that you were asking to be
violated.
DAVE: No. I think -- I agree with -- I was hearing what you were saying earlier about Cosby and the rapist. And, I would completely agree with
that. I think that there is -- the whole thing, the difference here is consent. That is what differentiates rape from a fetish or something like
somnophilia. If you have consent, then it would not be rape. If you both are into it, there is no difference between this and something like a foot
fetish. Right?
PINSKY: Right.
DAVE: Where if you had that and your spouse liked it and you brought that up and you want to do it. But if your spouse did not like it or someone
else did not like it, a girlfriend or whatever and you did it anyway, now you are in violation. I think that this is exactly the same. It is
something that -- it is like role playing. You know what I mean?
PINSKY: And, Dave, I have to interrupt. I want to remind, we are looking at pictures of Bill Cosby while Dave is speaking. Dave identifies with
this condition. We do not know that Bill Cosby has it. We are just sort of speculating. It brought up the possibility that maybe it would help us
understand what this was if indeed he had done these thing.
David, you say this is common. And, you also associated -- I heard the producer say you sort of relate it to the use of date rape drugs for some
people? Tell me about that.
DAVE: The correlation, I think there is the, the standard is the same. And, I think I brought up the date rape drug because that is kind of the
desire that motives someone to do that is the same as this. And, I feel weird calling it -- you know, when you have it, you do not really put a
name to it. I like this.
PINSKY: Right.
DAVE: You know? Like if someone is afraid of spiders, they say I am afraid
of spiders. They do not necessarily say I am an arachnophobiac.
PINSKY: Do you think -- Pure speculation, do you think Bill Cosby has something this?
DAVE: I do and I will tell you why --
PINSKY: If indeed he had done these things, but go ahead. Tell us why.
DAVE: I do and I will tell you why, because Bill Cosby is Bill Cosby. He obviously got at least between 20 and 30 women to be with him here where he
could have either had consensual sex with them or just flat out raped them while they were awake. But, he did not do either one of those.
He chose to for whatever reason, make sure they were not conscious, which leads me to believe, obviously horribly wrong, but it leads me to believe
there is something that he likes to do with these women that he was almost certain that they would not be OK with.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: If indeed he had done these things. And, again, we are speculating on speculating. We know we are doing. We are just trying to
understand this.
DAVE: Right.
PINSKY: Dave, I really appreciate your courage in coming forward in helping us try to get ahead around it. We may yet to need to speak to you
again but thank you very much. OK.
DAVE: Yes.
PINSKY: Spirit, suppose he is a somniphiliac. Let us say, it comes out, he is. So what?
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You do not want me to argue this with you, because see, I am with all of your other guests tonight. I am so
upset to even hear this and to see his photos being link and run in the back ground as you talk about somnophilia.
Like this is just totally not acceptable. And, I feel like we owe any individual out there who has a fetish or a kink or any individual who has
been violated, man, woman, child. We owe them an apology because to even make this consideration is ludicrous to me. Because as Dave said, consent,
consent is the thing here. He did not have consent. If did he this with these victims, and that is inexcusable.
INSKY: Well, no one disagrees with that. But, Wendy, Dave was making an association of the fantasy of drugging someone as opposed to somebody
actually doing it, which he agrees is horrible.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. But somnophilia, if we were to analyze it, and I think Dave in some of his early interviews talked about
it, some of the things that people want to do with that body that is almost comatose, they would be embarrassed or ashamed to want to do those acts if
the person were alert and awake or they would be afraid to ask for them. So, I think we can agree that it is partly related to performance anxiety
or anxiety about ones sexuality.
PINSKY: Right. And, Wendy, the men I have spoken to, and so far it has been only men who have spoken about this, indeed had a lot of shame and
embarrassment about sexuality, generally. Elisa, do you know anyone who was targeted by bill cosby?
ELISA DONOVAN, ACTRESS: Yes. I happen to know several women personally who have been harassed by Mr. Cosby in this fashion.
PINSKY: With the drug? Or just with the sort of groping or something?
DONOVAN: Both.
SCHACHER: Wow.
DONOVAN: And, so these women do not want to come forward because they are not interested in being associated with his name in any way, shape or form.
But, I will tell you that you know whatever everybody wants to call it, whether this some new, what have you, is real or not, this is his behavior
is about control and it is predatory and it is premeditated. And, so I think that --
PINSKY: And, I have to interrupt you.
DONOVAN: As everyone is saying, we are doing these people a disservice if there is some kind of a --
PINSKY: Yes. Two things I have to say. One is I have to remind everyone, these are all allegations.
DONOVAN: Correct.
PINSKY: And I cannot confirm it independently, what Elisa is reported this evening. And, in no way do we want to minimize the experience of victims.
DONOVAN: Yes.
PINSKY: In no way, obviously not.
DONOVAN: And, I certainly, do not want to say that, I have never met the man. I do not want to say anything that, you know, it is such a tough
subject to discuss because it is extremely sensitive in its nature.
But, it is even more sensitive because he is so famous and so beloved that people are very afraid to say anything negative. And, I think that is even
more tragic. And, it makes it even more difficult. And, you know, people said to me, "You better be careful about what you say about this."
SCHACHER: Wow.
DONOVAN: And I said, you know, this is not -- I just think if, you know, the old idea. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and 7,000
people say it does, then it is a duck." You know?
PINSKY: Yes.
DONOVAN: And, I think that it is something -- I do not think that it is --
PINSKY: And, we are the outside --
DONOVAN: And, it is my opinion. This is my opinion.
PINSKY: -- Elisa -- yes, we are outside of the day of quid pro quo and journalists had to protect in order to keep, you know, a relationship with
the celebrity. This is all, it is an open medium, a social medium right now. It is a social medium.
DONOVAN: Yes.
PINSKY: It is where everything -- There are no secrets. There are video cameras on everyone`s hand.
WALSH: But there are lies.
PINSKY: And, there are lies. Listen, I am leaving it open to the possibility that these allegations end up being disproven. We do not know.
We are just trying go get our head around all this.
DONOVAN: And, certainly -- perhaps, many people have jumped on a bandwagon, you know?
PINSKY: It could well be. But, there is some victims that we need to protect. We need to protect their ability to come forward discuss these
things and it is always women that feel tainted when they come forward and say something and they need to be empowered to be able to do so.
Next up -- thank you panel. A mom is facing charges after forcing her 10- year-old son to dress like a little girl. She then posted these pictures on Facebook. The child is clearly distressed as a result of this, quote,
"Punishment."
And, later, a man and a woman lose track of a sex toy during their activities. It does turn up. I will tell you where, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They put a dress on him. They put make up on him. They made him run around outside where all of his friends could see
him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The police say his mother shared this picture on Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He is in a blue dress, make-up on, crying. Tears were pouring down his eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Police arrested both adults and called this extreme mental abuse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Indeed it is. Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Tiffany. A 10- year-old boy ridiculed on Facebook by his mother. Sam, what happened?
SCHACHER: This story pisses me off, Dr. Drew. So, apparently, he wet the bed. And, because he wet the bed, they dressed him up in a dress, a hair
bow, make-up, made him run around the front yard, so they can ridicule him. Also, the neighbors say that in the past he was forced to take cold showers
for punishments. Have ice cubes thrown at him.
PINSKY: For bed wetting? This is their treatment for bed wetting?
SCHACHER: Exactly for bed wetting.
PINSKY: Genius.
SCHACHER: I know. And, the police department said that he does have a documented medical condition. However, they were not specific about what
that is.
PINSKY: I wondered if it was just the bed wetting. That is a medical condition. It is called enuresis and has a medical treatment. There are
ways to deal with it. It is not throwing water on a kid, Anahita. And, it is not making them run around the house dress like somebody else. What a
bizarre thing them to do.
SCHACHER: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. Dr. Drew, this is not punishment. This is flat out abuse in my opinion and this mother just tormented, harassed and shamed her
10-year-old because he has a medical condition that is not even within his control and he was wetting his bed? And, I was thinking, Dr. Drew, you may
be able to answer this, if he does have that condition, I would suspects that the mother doing this to him probably makes that condition worse.
PINSKY: It is hard to say but it definitely does not make it better. It causes more distress. Listen, kids at that age that are having enuresis
feel bad enough. It is embarrassing enough. So, whatever you are doing to that kid, you are adding shame and embarrassment on shame and
embarrassment. Tiffany, you look stricken by this case?
SMITH: I mean when you -- just to say that it is questionable parenting is ridiculous.
PINSKY: Questionable. Yes.
SMITH: I mean when you look at this kid, it is bullying. And, bullying does not stop with kids to kids. I mean the fact that the landlord was
bullying the mom to do this because they are saying that it came down from him and that she was doing it, but it really come down to bullying --
PINSKY: Yes, landlord, yes.
SMITH: But, it then it really just comes down to bullying.
PINSKY: Right.
SMITH: And, this poor kid. I mean a 10-year-old, all of his friends probably have seen this on Facebook. And, I will say the good thing about
it is that, obviously, they are off their rockers and did that see anything wrong with this, so they posted it, which made it available for someone to
say get this kid away from this people because they are doing some real damage.
PINSKY: You know, Tiffany, it is a good point. We have seen many cases in which social media allowed things to come to light that would not have
otherwise. Karamo, now, Tiffany brought this issue up of the -- What did you call it? The landlord? Her adult male roommate is who this person is
that she has some sort of an arrangement with, very bizarre. He instigated the punishment. What do you think was going on there?
BROWN: I think what was going on there that a very sick man was unable to influence a very sick woman. To use gender shaming, to intentionally
stigmatize this mentally ill child is such a disgusting thing. And, you know, Dr. Drew, very much is that I am very hard on parents who do this to
their children.
To do this to your child, she needs to be locked away for life and all of her children need to be taken away from her. This is ridiculous. How
could you ever do this? There is a special place in hell for a woman like this.
PINSKY: All right. Now, if she is convicted, Anahita, I want to show you the charges, first. Mom and roommate charged with cruelty towards
children, infliction of mental injury on a child. And you want to respond, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. I was going to say, even if the mother claims, "Oh, it was my roommate`s idea. He is the one who did this. He dressed my
child up. He posted the pictures." So, what?
SCHACHER: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: She is just as culpable legally if she allowed her child to be abused like this. That is absolutely not an excuse. It is not a moral
excuse. It is not a legal excuse in this case. So, she can be just as charged if she was not the one that actually did this but she allowed it to
happen.
PINSKY: Counselor, just as charged.
SCHACHER: Yes. I like it. I am liking the counselor.
SEDAGATFAR: I like the counselor.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Interesting state of affairs. The child`s grandmother says the department of child and family services has been contacted -- has contacted
the mom before, regarding this case. A woman from the local child protector services said, quote," it was clear to me and anyone else who saw
these pictures that this boy was clearly distraught and fearful about what is happening to him."
This is an important point she goes on to say. "It is important and it becomes mental injury when the child is traumatized during the event and
after the event." Karamo, let us explain to people what they mean by traumatized. They mean shattered, terrorized.
BROWN: Terrorize. Yes. Dr. Drew, this young man is going to have so many issues for the rest of his life. And, as you know, in my line of work.
These children will sit in my office for hours and hours as we try to find them placement or find them somewhere to go, and this trauma never stops.
They will continuously be hurt and haunted by this.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: And, the fact that his mother did this, he will never be able to trust again. It is so sad.
PINSKY: Yes. Listen, you packed a lot in those last few statements. People rewind it and listen to what he said. That is absolute truth. That
is how this affects children. I always call it the gift that keeps on giving because it stays with over and over and over again these children.
Next up, the mother may not be what she seems. We will talk about why. And, later, the missing sex toy. It turns up, I will tell you where after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Police say Prado let her roommate, Keith Driscoll, punish the boy for wetting himself.
UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE SPEAKER: They put a dress on him. They put make-up on him. They made him run around outside where all of his friends could see
him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Police say his mother shared this picture on Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They threw ice on my grandson. They made him take a cold shower. It was not his fault. He did not deserve that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Wendy, Elisa, and Spirit. A mother facing charges for having humiliating her son on Facebook. She is accused of allowing her
male roommate to punish her 10-year-old son by having forced him to wear a dress and make-up. Police say she took photos and then posted them on
social media. So, what motivates a grown man who is the instigator we hear to choose punishment like that, Spirit?
CLANTON: A bully. A bully, bottom line. This is somebody who says, "You know what? I am going to show you what it means to be a man and you are
not that. So, I am going to do the opposite of that." And, for that woman to allow that to happen to her child, tells me that she is just as broken
as he was.
PINSKY: I completely agree with you. And, Wendy, she said she did not want to jeopardize their living situation, which is why she allowed this to
go on. I am wondering if she was a victim of some sort of domestic abuse in addition.
WALSH: Yes. Remember, these single mothers, so many of them have attachment issues and they are targeted by these predators, who hurt
children. Single mothers out there, protect your kids.
But, listen to this boy`s poor behavior. His crime. He has bladder control issues. He is only 10 years old. This is very normal or else he
has emotional trauma because he has been parented by this woman for ten years.
PINSKY: Right, by these two screwballs.
WALSH: I wet the bed too!
PINSKY: Yes. It is so true. Well, anyway.
SCHACHER: Well, you would reveal something about yourself, Dr. Drew. Do not stop now.
PINSKY: I strangely understand what Wendy is saying. I do not know how to express it. I would want to wet the bed, too, if I were with these two
screwballs. E
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Elisa, there are two other siblings. Do you worry about these other children as well?
DONOVAN: The amount of things that I worry about in this story are immeasurable. But, certainly, I worry about the other children. Because
of course if they are not being directly abused themselves, which I am probably pretty certain they are, they are witnessing it and they are being
affected by that.
And this woman, you know, as a mother myself, these things are just so upsetting on such a deep core level. And, I just think that there is
absolutely no way that a woman would ever allow this to happen to her child unless she were afraid for her own life. She is severely mentally unstable
or she has been abused herself, and/or.
PINSKY: Right.
DONOVAN: And, there is just no other way.
PINSKY: That is right. And, Spirit, The thing we unfortunately in this country today hear, I am sure you hear about, Wendy hears about it all the
time is people that were themselves the victim of this kind of horrible abuse in childhood.
CLANTON: Absolutely. And, you know, we have to make the point, because, I know that there will be people out there that are going, "What are you
talking about? I do not understand why this is punishment. Why this is abuse. They put the kid in a dress. They did not hurt him."
What you have to understand is that punishment is made to be corrective action. It is made to correct something. Not to break someone down. So,
when you do something like this that destroys a person, there is no where to build them back up.
And, mom clearly does not have the infrastructure to be able to do that. So, we have to help her. We have to help this man. And, we definitely
have to get her out of this situation. Because if she is saying, I am a victim of my own circumstance, then there is no way she is going to be able
to be an advocate for her children.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, I want to reiterate that shattering a child`s regulatory system only does that.
WALSH: Only does that. And also, punishment has not been proven by research to work. It may change behavior for a very short period of time.
But, it is a positive reward system. Rewarding the good behavior. Catch them being good, moms out there.
PINSKY: Or removing a positive.
WALSH: Or removing a positive.
PINSKY: Or restricting them from a positive.
WALSH: But not adding a negative.
PINSKY: That is right.
WALSH: That has not been proven to work.
PINSKY: Wendy, people are going to argue with you about that, but that is the science.
WALSH: Yes. That is the research and it works. It worked my children, that you take away those pleasures like technology if they misbehave,
although I want to be really clear. This is not misbehaving. This child is having wetting issues due to his emotional stress.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly. So, look at the consequences now, because as you stated earlier, Wendy perhaps the reason why he is wetting the bed now is
because of all the emotional --
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: -- And perhaps even physical trauma that happen with this kid.
PINSKY: Who know, yes.
WALSH: It did not start here. Trust me.
SCHACHER: Right. Exactly.
PINSKY: Yes. This is just what we have discovered. Thank goodness for social media because we are able to discover crap like this. All right,
thank you panel.
Next up, lost and found. That is what we are going to talk about, a lost and found. However, this is an adult story. So, if there are kids in the
room, please, parents, speaking of good parenting. Because what has been lost and found was a sex toy. And, it was discovered where this woman last
left it. How does this happen? People are scratching their head. We will tell you, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Tiffany. Joining us Jason Ellis, host of the Jason Ellis show on SiriusXM and host of "The Awesome Guy." Now, the
next story, again, as I mentioned is an adult story, so please send the children out of the room. Let us not be like the previous story. Let us
be good parents.
It is in fact now the story you tweeted about the most, so we will cover it. A woman is wondering if she needs to see a physician after having
found a sex toy inside, left behind, been there for over a month. She posted the experience then on Reddit. And, we have here a brief little re-
enactment of part of what she posted.
SCHACHER: Oh, great.
(LAUGHING)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: My significant other put on two at the same time, and it began. Fun and giggles and suddenly his roommate came home.
We scrambled and in the haste of things, not me and not my significant other noticed that one ring was missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right, Jason. This story was tailor made for you. Any thoughts before we get into this?
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: It is an honor. Thank you.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: First of all, welcome back, my friend. Welcome back.
ELLIS: It is good to be back. Very honored that -- I forgot -- what would you -- what do you call on it television? What would you call it on the
streets is something that I almost said.
SCHACHER: The sex toy.
ELLIS: OK.
PINSKY: The ring.
ELLIS: It is a ring. OK.
PINSKY: Yes.
ELLIS: The ring. I can say ring, correct?
PINSKY: Yes. You can say ring.
ELLIS: OK. Let us leave the other bit out. But two at the same time. I like toys. But, two at the same time tells me that you might be too small
for them.
PINSKY: Oh, the wearer. The gentleman that was wearing them. OK.
ELLIS: Yes. And then for one to come off in the middle of stuff tells me once again that you might be too small for them.
PINSKY: OK. All right. Jason, thank you enlightening us. Tiffany, do you understand what he is saying?
SMITH: Yes. I do understand what he is saying.
PINSKY: OK. Good.
SMITH: And probably if she had asked them to wear them, he might be too small for her as well.
PINSKY: So, that is why they are there in the first place.
ELLIS: That is even worse! I did not even think of that.
(LAUGHING)
SMITH: I am just being honest.
CLANTON: All the way off the track then?
PINSKY: Please, Spirit. We are not off the track yet? Are you kidding?
CLANTON: No. We are not off the track yet.
PINSKY: OK.
CLANTON: They both continued to have sex after a month and they still did not realize that it was in there, then what is really happening in this
entire situation?
PINSKY: Well --
SCHACHER: And, not only that, Dr. Drew, she said that when she removed it, that it was not the same color anymore.
PINSKY: We have a picture. Let us take a look at it.
SCHACHER: So, why is it -- Wait, you have a picture?
PINSKY: It started out purple. And, six weeks later --
ELLIS: She made it green!
PINSKY: It was transparent. Not green.
ELLIS: She could sell them.
SCHACHER: No. Dr. Drew -- OK. I saw something on Reddit. And, I do not know if it is true, but please I do not want to repeat it. Why did it
change color?
PINSKY: I heard you --
SCHACHER: Yes. I saw it in Reddit.
PINSKY: Well, I saw it in Reddit, they were talking about hydrogen peroxide.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Hydrogen peroxide is made by the lactobacillus that hangout in the female genitalia, but there is also acidic acid. And, I think the acidic
acid little more likely to have done the job.
SCHACHER: It is just so -- this whole story is disgusting to me.
ELLIS: Wait. There is acid in there, Drew?
PINSKY: Yes, Jason, yes.
(CROSSTAKL)
ELLIS: What have I been doing? That is a very dangerous place to be
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: They said when the young men come courting to your young daughters, when they are of age, now you know exactly what to tell them.
Acid.
ELLIS: Oh! I want to go home now.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Welcome back, Jason.
DONOVAN: I just still do not even understand how two of them together, adults no one noticed that one was missing. I mean --
PINSKY: Yes. And, she apparently felt compelled to post a follow-up after having received so many comments. This thing was very popular on Reddit.
It reads, to quote, "To everyone asking if I did not have sex, I did. The ring was stuck way too far to notice or feel it" unquote.
Spirit, now, let me go off the track. Because the reality is that these things, we have reported stories before of different kinds of hardware than
this, let us say, have eroded through the vaginal wall into the bladder --.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: -- and sepsis. Oh, yes, my friend. So, these things do -- And anything occlusive up high -- Jason, listen carefully, can cause toxic
shock syndrome, which is another concern.
CLANTON: There you go. That is what I was afraid of.
ELLIS: They did a follow-up, Drew.
CLANTON: -- inflammatory disease. You name it. There are a lot of problems that could have happened here. So, I would tell her, run, do not
walk. Especially with the color changing. You are talking dyes. You are talking chemicals. There are a lot of things.
PINSKY: And, when you lose stuff -- listen, as physicians, this may sound crazy but we are used to seeing these things all the time. You go to
emergency rooms, they have seen this stuff a million times. No big deal. It is -- we are these physical entities, biological entities and it is OK
to go see a doctor with things that seem extreme -- believed that they seem extreme.
SCHACHER: How often have you seen this?
PINSKY: I will tell you --
SCHACHER: The crazy thing, what is the craziest thing.
PINSKY: I will tell you when we come back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Tiffany and Jason. It is by far the most tweeted story we have had in a long time, I would say, Sam. We are talking
about a woman who unintentionally left a sex toy in her vagina for over a month. She posted reaction of this experience on Reddit. And, Sam, you
asked me to answer the question.
SCHACHER: Well, you were so nonchalant about it, Dr. Drew. You are like, "Yeah, objects left and right in an emergency room, so?"
PINSKY: Because I will tell you -- I guess we are going to get into it here. That very common for there to be tampons left and retrieved.
SCHACHER: But there is a string attached. I do not understand.
PINSKY: It gets up. It is called the fornix. You cannot see it of feel it. And, physicians see it when they go on spectrum and it can be very
dangerous. It causes toxic shock.
SCHACHER: Yes. It scared me when I used to read it on the back of a box when he was 15.
PINSKY: That is right. And, in terms of every physician who works in an emergency room has seen something bizarre.
SCHACHER: So, what is the most bizarre thing that you have seen?
PINSKY: I do not know.
SCHACHER: Just say it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I have seen fruit.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: And, Sam, give us some --Jason? Are you all right with this?
ELLIS: I am learning stuff. Did you know that it is not actually acid, Drew, in the -- Can I say the V word?
PINSKY: Yes.
ELLIS: It is actually like a vinegar, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That is right. Another word for acidic acid. Corpse`s acidic acid is vinegar.
ELLIS: That is right.
SCHACHER: So, we produce vinegar?
PINSKY: Yes, we produce some little vinegar.
ELLIS: Sam, enjoy yourself.
PINSKY: Well done, Jason. Well done, my friend.
ELLIS: Yes. When someone says you are full of vinegar, they are referring to something else there.
PINSKY: Yes. Indeed.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Sam, how do people responsibility online? Give us some more.
SCHACHER: I am so uncomfortable right now. OK. So I have a number of comments from Reddit actually. Little Big Man 57 writes, "Got to start
treating sex like surgery. Count all pieces of equipment before and after." The Bucket Of Truth, interesting, "The fact that it lost all color
in that amount of time is pretty disturbing. Not something to skimp on."
PINSKY: What does that mean?
SCHCHER: Meaning you like should get a sex toy where the dye does not just get eroded by a woman`s vinegar.
PINSKY: I see. I like the way Spirit, is just nodding through this whole thing. Sorry, Spirit, we subject you in all this. But, I appreciate you
joining me in this one.
CLANTON: Listen. You are taking me back to when I originally started. I started talking sex. So, it is good to be home.
PINSKY: Well, and I will tell you why. No. That is right. And, I always have troubled by people not going to physicians because they are ashamed
and embarrass asked trust me. It is not a big deal.
CLANTON: But, most people are though.
PINSKY: Yes. I understand that. But you do not think the physicians or the nurses are going to have any problem with this. They have seen stuff -
-
CLANTON: They are there to help.
PINSKY: And, they are there to help. Tiffany, do you know what I am saying? I mean I am sure -- I am not saying you personally.
(LAUGHING)
SMITH: I was like, I have no personal experience with this.
PINSKY: But, everyone has a friend who was afraid to go to the doctor for some crazy reason.
SMITH: Yes. I mean --
CLANTON: This lady still needs to go, though. I think it is important for us to say that, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Absolutely.
CLANTON: -- is that she still needs a check-up. She needs to make sure that there are no fissures. There are no tears.
PINSKY: Erosions. Erosions.
CLANTON: There are no permanent damage.
ELLIS: And, she should find somebody who has a more responsible penis.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, she said there are two things she learned from the experience. One, listen to the body and very much like the surgeon. Count
how many things go inside and outside of my body.
SCHACHER: You have to count?
CLANTON: That tells me if she is saying listen to the body, that tells me she had some cramping, some abdominal pain.
PINSKY: That is right.
CLANTON: She had some smell. Something going on.
SCHACHER: Oh my God.
PINSKY: And, all of which you would anticipate from something like this.
ELLIS: Pay attention, ladies.
SMITH: But, here is the thing. Yay, human body, it actually fought something that was not supposed to be in there.
PINSKY: Yes.
SMITH: And, gave her some signs.
PINSKY: That is right.
SMITH: So, yes, listen to it. Though, I am not really going to listen to any advice that this girl has posted.
PINSKY: Jason, I want to switch gears very quickly about 15 seconds.
SMITH: Please do.
PINSKY: Just very sad what happened in Australia. Are you cool with that? Anything you want to say about that or thoughts for your countrymen?
ELLIS: I do not know much about it. I have not been to Australia for a very long time. I am going to Christmas for the first time in four years,
so I do not know anything about it.
PINSKY: It was a very, very unpleasant stand-off -- From our standpoint --
ELLIS: Are people OK?
PINSKY: Yes. Well, most people are. It was a mental health issue. It got politicized. And, Spirit I have to go. "FORENSIC FILES" up next.
END
