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At This Hour

American Alan Gross Freed; U.S. Moves Closer to Normal Relations With Cuba; The Future of U.S.-Cuba Relations, Interview with Rep. Sam Farr

Aired December 17, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

Welcome to our viewers that are watching us around the world. History is being made @THISHOUR after more than a half century of tension and cold diplomatic silence between the U.S. and Cuba, a possible and major thaw in relations has been set in motion with Cuba releasing an American, Alan Gross, from prison after five years.

BERMAN: Really a series of genuinely breathtaking developments. Cuba is also releasing a U.S. intelligence asset, a spy, who's been locked up in Cuba for more than 20 years.

In return Washington is freeing three Cuban spies convicted in 2001 of espionage. Now that is big in and of itself.

But it all seems part now of something much, much bigger. President Obama will announce major changes in U.S. policy toward Cuba, officials calling them the most sweeping changes since the embargo began more than 50 years ago.

PEREIRA: Cuban president Raul Castro is planning a similar announcement next hour on Cuban TV.

The big question @THISHOUR, does this foreshadow a return to normal relations with the island nation, a country that has been a thorn in Washington's side since Fidel Castro took power back in 1959.

CNN is covering this from all angles. We should mention we're the only U.S. network on the ground in Cuba. That's where we find out Patrick Oppmann. He is in Havana. Michelle Kosinski joins us from the White House.

BERMAN: Also with us, justice reporter Evan Perez and global affairs correspondent Elise Labott in Washington.

Elise, I want to begin with you because you have the details of this series of remarkable developments here, and at the top of that list, at least for me, we're going to have an embassy. The White House wants to open up a U.S. embassy in Havana and the reverse as well.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John, and the U.S. and Cuba really having these talks for some time, not only about Alan Gross and the Cuban five and U.S. intelligence asset, but how the U.S. and Cuba can normalize relations.

You've seen talks with U.S. and Cuban officials over the last year or so, and the U.S. does see some reforms on the island that they want to continue to encourage, so the U.S. will be opening up an embassy in Havana. Right now there's an interests section.

The U.S. is also going to see about getting Cuba off the state sponsor of terrorism list, which has really been a thorn in Cuba's side because it was more of a political move. Cuba hasn't been seen really as having any terrorist activity for years.

But President Obama also set to announce with these wide-ranging initiatives, really everything he can do outside of the existing legislation. So we're talking about a relaxing of travel restrictions for Americans -- that means a general license to travel practically anything but terrorism; a resumption of banking between the U.S. and Cuban banks -- Americans can now use credit cards on the island; an increase in those remittances that the U.S. families are allowed to send back to their families in Cuba.

The president also going to announce expanded commercial and export of sales and goods to Cuba.

So, you know, the question is, why now? And officials are saying, listen, we -- this is not a reward to the Cuban regime, the regime of the Castros, but more an acknowledgement that the embargo is not working and that if the U.S. wants to encourage further reforms on the island, it needs to engage more with the Cuban government and people.

They say they will not let up on human rights and actually as part of this deal Cuba has agreed to release some 53 political prisoners from a list provided by the United States, allow more access to the Internet for Cuban people, and allow more access to political prisoners by the International Red Cross and United Nations.

So really, as we said, for a president that said he wanted to come to office to engage Cuba many years ago, that's kind of happened in fits and starts. Certainly Alan Gross has been an impediment to that, but this will be a landmark deal for President Obama that will certainly shape his foreign policy.

PEREIRA: So many pieces and parts to this. Elise Labott, thank you so much.

We should mention not only will our president be speaking about this announcement today around noon, Cuban president Raul Castro is expected to make an announcement on the relations with the United States. That's expected to be at noon as well on Cuban TV.

So the question is obviously, is this the beginning of some mending between Cuban/U.S. relations?

BERMAN: We just learned that president himself spoke with the Cuban leader, Raul Castro, yesterday to finalize this arrangement, which is all coming into play right now.

We want to go live now to our Patrick Oppmann, who is in Havana. CNN is the only U.S. network with a presence in Cuba.

Patrick, Raul Castro, the president, the leader of Cuba, is expected to speak in just a little while. What is he expected to say?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We'll probably hear some more details about this historic agreement came through, and it just came through in the last 24 hours.

I understand from a p.r. company that works for Alan Gross's attorney, some of the tick tock of what happened here. Alan Gross was only informed yesterday that he would be freed, and I'm told that he didn't know what to respond. There was just stunned silence when his attorney, Scott Gilbert, called him on the line to tell him he would be leaving Cuban prison after five years.

Then this morning, 8:00 a.m., a U.S. government plane arrived here at a military base in Cuba to pick up Alan Gross. On board is his wife Judy, his attorney Scott Gilbert, and as well three U.S. congressman, Senator Jeff flake from Arizona, Patrick Leahy from Vermont, and Congressman Van Holland from Alan Gross's home district in Maryland. And these are three congressmen who have been very much involved in winning his release.

Then they take off a little after 8:00 a.m., and we're told at 8:45, the pilot gets on the intercom to tell Alan Gross that they are now out of Cuban airspace. Alan Gross stands up and is -- I'm told -- unable to talk he's so overwhelmed by emotion.

Then he calls his daughters, and his first words to his daughters are, "I'm free." You can only imagine their reaction at this long nightmare finally concluding for their father.

But, you know, there is a bigger picture here, which is where do U.S./Cuban relations go next. And I'm joined right now by Wayne Smith, who was a longtime diplomat here in Havana. You were here when the U.S. broke off relations, then restored semirelations, and you were the chief of the U.S. interests section.

What do you think looking at the future of the relations between these two countries?

WAYNE SMITH, SENIOR FELLOW OF THE CUBA PROJECT: I would congratulate the administration. This was exactly the right thing to do at this critical moment.

Why critical? Because the torture report had just come out, damaging the image of the United States. Now we're going into the hemispheric summit in April. The United States is the only country now that does not have full diplomatic relations with Cuba. Time to change that.

One of the marks, I think, in the hemisphere against the United States is its outdated Cuban policy. So we are now moving, the administration is indicating, we will move to change our Cuba policy, to begin to engage with Cuba. That's exactly the right thing to do.

OPPMANN: Thank you so much.

This policy obviously will affect thousands of people's lives as U.S. and Cuba who move closer together. Of course it's already having a major impact on the life of Alan Gross, who's returning to the United States, and the lives of three Cuban intelligence agents who are also flying back to the United States, we understand.

Alan Gross, we're told, will land at Andrews Air Force Base at 11:30 a.m. this morning, will have some words to the media, and then will go back to being with his family and trying to get his health better. He suffered greatly during these last five years in Cuban prisons.

John and Michaela?

PEREIRA: Yeah, he certainly has. We've heard reports of that, and I'm sure that's causing such a good sigh of relief from every family member, knowing he's on his way to get some medical attention here.

Thanks so much Patrick. We appreciate it.

We want to turn to somebody who's joining us on the phone from Madrid, Spain. Former Governor Bill Richardson is on the phone with us.

Governor, first of all, your reaction to the news that this deal is being made for the return of an American to American soil but also about the potential for new relations with Cuba.

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER GOVERNOR (via telephone): Well, this is very personal for me because in 2011 I went to Cuba to try to get Alan Gross out, and I was unable to. They wanted the five Cuban political prisoners, the five spies that were in the U.S. And the U.S. -- neither country was ready to do it.

So this is huge, because Alan Gross was the impediment for the U.S./Cuba relationship improving. So now that that has been cleared away, I think President Obama is looking at his legacy and saying in Latin America getting rid of this irritant of the U.S./Cuba relationship where we're not dialoguing or speaking is going to happen, and it's going to result in the resumption of diplomatic relations.

It won't do much with the trade embargo because the Congress has to improve softening of the trade embargo. This was the Helms-Burton act several years ago that basically said the president doesn't have the executive authority to do this without going to the Congress.

But this is huge. This is big. This is the legacy stuff for President Obama, and my hope is that we really zero in on -- this is good, but Cuba needs to improve its human rights position, needs to release political prisoners, allow the Internet in, allow more freedoms there.

Hopefully this is going to happen with this release of Alan Gross, but this was the linchpin, the release of Alan Gross for the U.S. That's the signal that we were hoping to get so that the relationship with Cuba would improve.

BERMAN: You brought up Congress here and, Governor, you've had just about every job imaginable, both political and diplomatic, so you know the complications here.

A lot of people say it doesn't seem likely that Congress itself will lift the embargo. There are Democrats who oppose this move today. Today, in fact, the chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee, Bob Menendez, put out a statement that said President Obama's actions have vindicated the brutal behavior of the Cuban government.

What's your reaction to that?

RICHARDSON (via telephone): Look, there's going to be opposition in the Congress. I don't think there's any way that Congress will relax the embargo in any way, so what the president is doing is taking executive action that he can take on his own like opening up an embassy in Cuba. He can do that.

We only have an interests section now, a big building and a large staff, but now, I think the exchange of ambassadors is very big. And I think Senator Menendez and a lot of Cuban Americans rightfully are saying, hey, you know, let's make sure that there are significant human-rights improvements not just in the treatment of political prisoners but tourism, transit of Cuban American families between Havana and the United States. That has improved.

But I think for the American people if they open up travel to Cuba, you're going to see a real travel tourism bonanza because a lot of Americans want to go to Cuba. I think you'll see a lot of Cubans wanting to come to the U.S. So I think this is a very good legacy, foreign policy initiative for President Obama.

PEREIRA: Yeah. It would be interesting to be among Cuban Americans right now and the discussions they're having, the old generation, the newer generation.

Ambassador, while we are -- or, Governor, while we still have you, one of the things that we heard from officials, U.S. officials, they are trying to stress that this move was not to in any way seem as though it was propping up the Castro regime, but sort of, look, if we want change in Cuba, we have to try a different approach.

I'm curious what your thoughts are there.

RICHARDSON (via telephone): Well, I agree with that. The Cuban trade embargo is not working. It just didn't improve relations, and the Cubans were using it to solidify their own leadership. So -- it was also a major (inaudible) American relations with the U.S. So this is a good foreign policy move also. And the Cubans wanted to get off the terrorism list. That didn't make sense because they were actually cooperating with us on homeland security issues.

But I think on a lot of other matters, like environmental issues, coastal issues relating to protection of the seas and climate change, it opens up enormous areas, potential areas of cooperation.

But I think again the Congress is not going to take much action. And I think the administration should open (inaudible) with Senator Menendez, with Senator Rubio, with the Cuban Americans that have really stood up for human-rights issues and see if there's a way that there can be a dialogue on Americans deciding and being key players in how the relationship with Cuba improves, because they're patriotic Americans.

And, look, I'm for this move, and I'm for this relationship improving, but it is going to cause a lot of anxious in the Cuban American community in Miami and New Jersey where Senator Menendez is from. So, you know, this is a time to reach a dialogue and have a discussion about what human-rights initiatives, what openness of privatization of the Cuban economy.

But this is good, and I hope President Obama and President Castro, they'll have a chance to meet in Panama in April, and maybe this can be expanded, the improvement in the relationship.

BERMAN: All right, Governor Bill Richardson, former ambassador Bill Richardson, former secretary Bill Richardson, thank you so much for being with us to provide your vast insight to what's going on here, this momentous day.

President Barack Obama, in less than an hour, set to deliver a statement on U.S. relations with Cuba. A sea change, really, in U.S. relations with Cuba. He'll deliver that from the cabinet room.

Let's go to the White House now. Our Michelle Kosinski is there. Michelle, do you have a sense of what the president will say and any sense at all of why now?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, this is momentous. You used that word. The fact that this will open things after such a long period of time. The fact that the White House is now calling this the beginning of full diplomatic relations with Cuba. I mean, a debate. Anyone who spent time in Miami and has been a part of that community knows that this is a debate that goes on every day. Something will come up in the news and people will debate whether the current policy is working and Castro needs to be punished, versus it's not working and something more needs to be done, a modernization of relations. That's the tack the White House is taking here.

So yeah, we haven't heard from the president yet, but we did just hear a background briefing from senior White House officials who laid out the entire scope of this. And they say the focus is very much still on human rights and democracy, but the past policy just wasn't doing it. They feel like this will be a more efficient way to press those needs in Cuba. It's shocking in some ways. I mean, the fact that Cuba just convicted and sentenced Alan Gross to 15 years in prison for fomenting dissent in 2011, and now today we're seeing this sea change, as you called it. So what he have learned from - go ahead.

PEREIRA: I was going ask you very quickly, just in terms of what we're expecting, in terms of backlash, because we certainly know that the last time we saw a prisoner release was Sergeant Bergdahl being released, and the White House faced a lot of criticism for that. This is not just a prisoner release, there's a humanitarian release, there's also a change, a call for change in policy in a long standing 50-year battle, if you will, or at least a freezeout. There will be backlash.

KOSINSKI: Right. And it is fascinating, because we know that -- We're hearing from members of Congress, some of them Cuban-Americans, we're hearing from people within the State Department who said that they felt shut out of these negotiations that started last spring. And the question is, why weren't they involved more? So the White House did answer that question in this background briefing, saying the focus for now is not on what Congress can do in the future, although they would like Congress to take action, possibly lifting the embargo fully, ultimately, but they said for now the focus is on what the president can do and this is something he's wanted to do for a long time. And they do cite some bipartisan support, the fact that there were members of Congress on the plane with Alan Gross, one of them a Republican, I mean, that doesn't seem like much in the grand scope of things, but that's what the White House is citing as an example, at least, of some bipartisan support.

It's interesting to see what this will do exactly because, again, when you talk about the backlash, the question is, well what is expected of Cuba in this? They just convicted and sentenced Alan Gross, how are things going to change so much on their end to satisfy the United States right now? Well, the White House is saying that there is an opening there, there is talk of reform, and this is really the beginning of reform. So what they laid out in this background briefing was that what's expected of Cuba for now is that they'll release 53 political prisoners and the White House said many of them have been released. They need to open up communications, including internet connectivity, telecoms there, and include the Red Cross. There's much, much more to this in terms of what's going to be done.

BERMAN: There is so much to this, including a life-altering moment - thank you, Michelle Kosinski - a life-altering moment for one man, Alan Gross. We believe this is the plane carrying Alan Gross right now on the ground in Washington. This is from our affiliate WJLA. Alan Gross left Cuba this morning.

PEREIRA: And what's remarkable, John, is we were listening to hear from some of our correspondents. He learned of his imminent release yesterday. He has been, over time, very frustrated with the hopes of being released. He, in fact, is said to have said his good-byes to his family. So the fact that he would have been told yesterday and see this happen today, I'm sure he had no words.

BERMAN: And on board this plane with him, Democrats and a Republican. Patrick Leahy, a Democrat from Vermont, Chris Van Hollen, a Democrat from Maryland, Alan Gross's home state, and also Jeff Flake, Republican Senator from Arizona who is really been supportive of more normal relations with Cuba. It just shows the bipartisan support, but there was also bipartisan opposition to this. We are waiting to get our first look at Alan Gross. He's 65 years old. He's been in prison for five years. He lost a tremendous amount of weight. And as Michaela was saying, you know, over time he's been angry, not just at the Cubans for imprisoning him, but there were periods of time where he was not at all happy with the United States for the efforts to get him back.

PEREIRA: On board the plane was his wife and I can't imagine what that conversation would have been like. I mean, consider that for a moment. The man thought he was likely going to spend the last of his days separated from his family and loved ones in a prison cell in Cuba. And to know that today he is sitting beside the woman that he chose to marry, the woman he loves, headed back to American soil, I can't even imagine the range of emotions he's feeling. One of our producers had a chance to speak with his attorney, Scott Gilbert. This is what he told our producer, that Alan Gross was planning on enjoying a good scotch. He hasn't had a drink in five years. He wants to spend some time with his family and enjoy a little private time with them.

BERMAN: And also said he wants to have a good cigar, which there will be plenty of Americans that will tell you that's rather ironic since he's getting out of Cuba, but it shows you these were not easy days for Alan Gross in prison in Cuba. There are 50 years of history, 50 years plus of history, at play with what's happening today and that's all changing, it seems, today. Not just for Alan Gross, but also in the relationship between the United States and Cuba. It's filled with complicated tumultuous history.

I want to bring in Alfredo Duran. He fought in the Bay of Pigs alongside U.S. interests there. He was captured, he was jailed in Cuba for 18 months. Alfredo joins us now live from Miami. And as you look at this today, not just Alan Gross being returned to the United States, but also what is apparently a change in the relationship between the United States and Cuba, what are your thoughts?

ALFREDO DURAN, LAWYER: Well, first of all, I'm very happy for Mr. Alan Gross. The Cuban government released Alan Gross because he was very ill and Alan Gross -- they certainly didn't want to have the responsibility of having Alan Gross become very, very ill in Cuba or pass away in Cuba. And so that's why they basically released him.

I don't think that there's really very many -- very much of a meaningful negotiation that had to do with any future relationship between the United States and Cuba. There's very little that the president can do by executive order in relations to Cuba other than possibly start full diplomatic relations. Most of the relationship between Cuba and the United States as it goes to foreign policy is in the Congress hands in the Helms-Burton Bill. Unfortunately, the case of Cuba is no longer has to do anything with foreign policy, it has to do with political elections in the state of Florida and New Jersey, electoral politics, presidential politics, because of the amount of electoral votes that the Cuban-American vote in a close election can make the difference. But I am very happy --

BERMAN: Alfredo, I don't want to interrupt you here, but we're looking at live pictures from Joint Base Andrews, Andrews Air Force Base as many people know it, outside Washington, D.C. We believe that was just the plane carrying Alan Gross that landed. It does seem likely, perhaps, this camera is following him. We can't get a really good look at it that he may be in that group of people stepping onto U.S. soil for the first time in five years.

PEREIRA: Yeah, we wanted to stay with the this picture, and Alfredo, we'll get back to you in just a moment, because this is pretty significant.

Again, five years of imprisonment in Cuba, not expecting to be released home. Many people had tried in vain. We heard from former Governor Bill Richardson that he, too, had added his voice to the calls for him to be released. And again, learning that he would be released yesterday, and this happening in very short order today in exchange. Well, this was a humanitarian release, but we also know there was another U.S. spy that had been held in Cuba for some 20 years. He has been released, as well. There were some political prisoners within Cuba that were released, as well, in this deal today.

BERMAN: Alfredo, if you're still with us, you were a prisoner in Cuba many, many years ago. Alan Gross, who we believe we just saw land on American soil, he was just released from a Cuban prison after five years. There are critics today of this deal who say that the Obama administration just made a deal with a repressive regime, a regime that is not changing. How do you react to that?

DURAN: I think that the Obama administration, what they did is what every administration of the United States has an obligation to do, and that is to try to get whatever person is imprisoned outside of the United States for political reasons, to get them back here to the country. The Obama White House did the right thing by protecting an American citizen, especially one who seems to be ill. So I congratulate the Obama administration for having the courage to do what they're obligated to do, and he's done it very well.

PEREIRA: But you say it's going to take more to see substantive change within Cuba. What is it going to take?

DURAN: You know, the only thing that I can forecast for Cuba is that nothing is going to change until we have a generational change in Cuba. While we have the four or five historical figures of the mountains in Cuba still walking around in Havana, you're not going to see any significant change. You're going to see a generational change, the young Cubans, if you take a look at the Central Committee of the Communist Party, about 80 percent of them are under 55 years of age, those are the people who are going to change the future of Cuba. And those people want what everybody else in the world wants: they want a better life, they want a more stable government, they want political freedom, they want human rights, and that you don't have in Cuba right now.

BERMAN: Alfredo, thank you so much for being with us. We just saw some live pictures right now from Andrews Air Force Base of Alan Gross returning to the United States after five years in a prison in Cuba. He was flown back this morning, just told yesterday that he was coming back. PEREIRA: He was said to -- when the airplane had made it into U.S.

airspace -- he was said to have stood up on the plane and was at a loss for words. He soon then after called his daughters and had an emotional conversation with them. It's an amazing thing to imagine, this man's first taste of freedom. These moments he will never forget.

BERMAN: Whatever you have to say about what is happening today, the historic moment today, this change in the relationship between the United States and Cuba, for one man today, life just changed immeasurable and dramatically. He is home safely. And he did not think this was going to happen.

One man who met with him in prison, in Cuba, Congressman Sam Farr, a Democrat from California. He joins us by phone now. Congressman, you met with Alan Gross back in May. When you spoke to him then, do you think he ever saw this day coming?

REP. SAM FARR (D), CALIFORNIA (via telephone): No, in fact, he said that he would not spend his next birthday incarcerated. So it was obvious that he was either going to kind of do something really drastic. He was very upset with both countries. Sort of felt let down by our country and certainly upset with the Cuban government. He knew that this was a political move by the Cubans to arrest him, even though he didn't break the Cuban law. But to hold him for 15 years in prison, I don't think he ever thought this was going to happen.

You can see by the excitement -- I mean, everybody's excited about this. This is a failed policy, diplomatic relations allow you to negotiate, all the things that people are concerned about about Cuba, is violation of human rights and lack of freedom in the press, these are things that now can be done in normal channels, just like they have been done with Vietnam and China and so on. So I'm really excited that our policy is becoming mature.

PEREIRA: Becoming mature. And it took - it sounds like -- in order to broker this deal, it sounds as though it sort of took an international effort. We've been giving word from some of our reporters that the Canadians and the Vatican, in fact Pope Francis, have been involved in facilitating and brokering this deal. Pope Francis encouraging President Obama in a letter and in their meeting this year to renew talks with Cuba.

We're just showing, once again, the moment that so many people have been watching and a family, obviously, was waiting for the moment when Alan Gross, his plane touched down on U.S. soil at Andrews Air Force Base with his wife and several elected officials on board the plane with him, people who had been working to secure his release. A tremendous moment there. We know the president has been active in this, Congressman Farr. I'm curious what you're expecting and hoping to hear from the president when he makes his comments at noon today.

FARR: Well, I hope he'll also point out that we're the only country in the hemisphere that hasn't had normal relations and that we've been isolating ourselves in the world, it's been an embarrassment. We have a summit of all the presidents meeting in Panama in March. All of the other countries insisted that Cuba be invited to the next summit. We had to take some action and I'm really proud that he did. I think this is a step in the right direction. As I said, it's mature and all the other concerns that we have now can be dealt with during normal channels and I think it will really allow the American people to interact with Cuban people, and what better way to build democracy?

BERMAN: Congressman, though, you served in the U.S. House of Representatives, the U.S. Congress does not seem likely to reverse the embargo on Cuba. The president will take whatever actions he can today including normalizing some relations, there will be an exchange of embassies. We'll have an embassy, the United States will, in Havana now, and Cuba will have an embassy in Washington, D.C., which is remarkable in and of itself.