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More Threats by Sony Hackers; American Alan Gross to Be Freed From Cuban Prison; President Obama to Announce Sweeping U.S.-Cuba Policy Changes

Aired December 17, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And the box office may not be the only place that Sony takes a hit. Two former employees have now filed a class-action lawsuit against the company after the hackers got access to information like Social Security Numbers and medical conditions.

The suit reads in part, quote, "an epic nightmare, much better suited to a cinematic thriller than to real life, is unfolding in slow motion for Sony's current and former employees. Their most sensitive data has been leaked to the public and may even be in the hands of criminals."

One of the film's stars, Seth Rogen, telling Stephen Colbert, he expected some backlash, but felt the film should portray what life is truly like under the Kim Jong-un regime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH ROGEN, ACTOR, "THE INTERVIEW": We did not think they would love the concept of the movie, to be totally honest. But more than anything, I mean, we wanted to make a movie that had kind of one foot in reality. That's something that we, as filmmakers, like and think as interesting as audience members as well.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Did you think about changing his name at all? Like calling him like, you know, Phil Jong- un or something.

ROGEN: We actually did, yes. We did. And then we thought like, who's feelings are we trying to spare by doing that?

COLBERT: Right.

ROGEN: Kim Jong-un?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Pamela Brown has more from Washington.

Good morning.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.

It appears the dominos continue to fall, Carol. Sony is trying to weather this storm. In fact, the company is saying that it's not going to pull the movie. It is leaving that decision up to the theaters. And already a major chain, Cinemark, has actually decided to pull the movie and the stars, Seth Rogen and James Franco, have canceled all public appearances this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kim Jong-un wants to do an interview with Dave Skylark (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a fan.

BROWN (voice-over): Amid mounting threats from the hackers to call off its Christmas release, Sony says it currently has no plans to pull its upcoming movie "The Interview."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take him out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want us to kill the leader of North Korea?

BROWN: But now developing, a person close to the situation says Sony would not object if theaters decided to pull it from their box offices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to go kill Kim Jong-un?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally, I'd love to assassinate Kim Jong-un.

BROWN: Carmike Cinemas, the first movie chain to pull the plug from their more than 270 theaters across more than 40 states. Landmark theaters also bailing, canceling Thursday's premier in New York. Even the film's stars, Seth Rogen and James Franco, dropping out of all media appearances this week.

This fear in the movie industry prompted by a new threatening message purportedly from the Sony hackers. The FBI investigating their promise of a bitter fate to anyone who sees the controversial North Korean comedy. The message says, "soon all the world will see what an awful movie Sony Pictures Entertainment has made. The world will be full of fear. Remember the 11th of September 2001."

CRAIG A. NEWMAN, MANAGING PARTNER, RICHARDS KIBBE & ORBE: Now they've got all these threats against people. You know, if you go see the movie, you know, be careful. They're threatening the families of Sony employees. I mean this has taken hacking to a level that we've never seen before.

BROWN: This week, a leaked scene from the film was posted showing the gruesome assassination of North Korea Leader Kim Jong-un, something the country condemns as an act of war. U.S. law enforcement sources tell CNN, the strong suspicions is that the reclusive country is the instigator of the hack and possibly outsourced it to a group elsewhere as retaliation for the controversial film. The FBI is scrubbing Sony's computer system, trying to gather enough evidence to be able to definitively point the finger at the hacking culprit.

NEWMAN: It is a complex nuance investigation. The more sophisticated hackers have gone through multiple, multiple infrastructure to get to where they've gotten to. So it's not something that Sony is going to solve in a day or a week or a month.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And now Hollywood studios are breaking their silence on the cyber-attack. The Motion Picture Association of America released a statement and it says, "Sony Pictures is not just a valued member of our association family, but they are friends and colleagues and we feel for them."

Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Pamela Brown reporting live from Washington, thank you.

In Los Angeles, officials are urging the public to remain calm in light of the hacker's warnings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC GARCETTI (D), LOS ANGELES: We don't have any credible threat specifically of any violence or anything. I would encourage people to continue enjoying their lives, going out shopping, doing everything else. And we participate very closely with our federal agencies in coordinating all of that and to ensure that we can continue on and we'll leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That sentiment is being echoed by some Hollywood a-listers. Among them, director Judd Apatow, who took to Twitter last night, telling one actor and producer, quote, "people will now want to see it to know why they're so afraid of it. So their plan to suppress it will ultimately backfire. I'm not going to let a terrorist threat shut down freedom of speech. I'm going to 'The Interview'." He's talking about the movie.

So let's talk about this. Andrew Wallenstein is the co-editor-in-chief of "Variety Magazine," and Tom Fuentes is our CNN law enforcement analyst and a former assistant director.

Welcome to you both.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

ANDREW WALLENSTEIN, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "VARIETY MAGAZINE": Thank you.

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm glad you're both here.

So, Tom, are movie growers in danger?

FUENTES: You know, Carol, I really don't think so. I think that their -- the company of Sony, obviously, has been hacked and damaged and data has been lost and reputation has been shot. But to put a threat like that out with the thousands of movie theaters we have in this country, and all of the different ways of distributing the movie, even online, that can't be stopped, I don't see the actual bombing of theaters as a credible threat, to be honest. But I think that what they're accomplishing here in the long run is, they're going to intimidate every movie maker and TV producer and news media operator in the rest of the world, don't say bad things about our dear leader. And I think that's the motive here. And other companies need to watch out.

I mean CNN is showing these little clips about every 30 minutes of the movie. What if they turn to CNN next start destroying data, hacking in, distributing e-mails, and saying, don't say bad things about our leader or, you know, we consider it an act of terrorism, an act of war and we're going to come back at you.

COSTELLO: Well, I think CNN would say, too bad.

FUENTES: Maybe.

COSTELLO: Sony, by the way, is not pulling the picture. Individual movie theaters are pulling the picture. But let me ask you it this way, by doing that, by pulling the movies out of theaters, isn't that giving the hackers more power than they have?

FUENTES: I think at this point they've got plenty of power. I mean they have done serious damage to Sony and this - that already is, you know, a serious series of felonies that they've committed just doing that. Now, when you've pushed the terrorism button and get the whole public afraid that there might be a bombing, that's another set of, you know, violating the terrorist statute. So, yes, there's plenty of issues to deal with for this company.

But, again, you know, we can say that nobody should be afraid of terrorists, but just in the movie entry alone, will another theater at least think twice before they produce something else that's this critical or this graphic against that regime? I'm not sure what will happen next.

COSTELLO: OK, Andrew, let's go down that road because, you know, there are two sides to every story and I'd like to explore all sides of an issue. So was Sony responsible for depicting the assassination of a sitting world leader in a movie?

WALLENSTEIN: Well, I mean, look, it's clearly in a comedic context. It's clearly satirical. That said, the evidence is, Sony knew full well that there was risk in doing what it did here. But I also agree with Tom --

COSTELLO: In a "New York Times" article - in "The New York Times" article, there was an interview with Seth Rogen and "The New York Times" asked Seth Rogen, did -- was there any talk of not depicting Kim Jong-un for being assassinated? And there was talk and Seth Rogen says, nope, I'm going to do the movie how I want to do the movie. So they were aware.

WALLENSTEIN: They were fully aware, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were irresponsible to do what they did. It's a tough call. But, you know, I do agree with Tom. I do believe there could be a chilling effect here as just about any Hollywood production that's going to depict something out there on the order of a Kim Jong-un is going to think twice and probably be a lot more conservative than they would have had this incident never happened.

COSTELLO: So what will be the next step Sony takes, do you think? You know, now theaters are - the individual theaters are deciding whether to pull the movie. Sony, it says, you know, pull it if you must but we're not going to order any like edict to do that. So what's next for Sony through all of this?

WALLENSTEIN: I think Sony has an awful dilemma. Right now they're sticking to their guns. But they know that even the sheer -- the mere prospect that there could be a tragic incident exposes them and the theater owners to legal liability. On the other hand, they don't want to be seen as caving in to what in all likelihood is an empty threat. However, there's been considerable damage done already. They've also spent a lot of money to market this movie. And as Tom indicated, this movie could actually do very well because all of this negative publicity has been aroused by the controversy. So when you've got the likes of Judd Apatow going out on Twitter and saying, hey, it's the patriotic thing to do to go see this movie, well, you could see a snowball effect and Sony could do quite well, even though you've got the actual chains like Carmike pulling out. For all we know, they'll be the only chain.

COSTELLO: OK, let's talk about that patriotic thing. So, Tom, I'll pose this question to you. Some suggest that President Obama should come out in support of Sony. Should he?

FUENTES: You know, I'm not sure if he should get into this. You have the FBI, Homeland Security, other U.S. agencies aggressively pursuing this. And if they can tie it back to being state sponsored by North Korea or a North Korean ally, they'll say so and they'll prosecute and go after it. I mean, you know, we indicted members of the Chinese military not too long ago for hacking into U.S. companies' systems. So I think that - I don't think there will be a hesitation to announce it publically if they can make that connection. But, you know, as other guests have said that the digital bread crumbs, if you will, in this will go all around the world and will go through many different systems and networks and servers. It will be difficult to track that all the way back to being a state sponsored event.

COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Tom Fuentes, Andrew Wallenstein, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

FUENTES: Thank you, Carol.

WALLENSTEIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I'm back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right, back to our breaks news right now. Alan Gross, a contractor for the American government, has been released after five years in a Cuban military hospital. Gross was arrested back in 2009 after he was caught smuggling satellite equipment to Cuba. It was part of an American plan to increase Internet access as a way to subvert the Cuban government. In exchange for Gross' release, a prisoner swap. The American government has agreed to release three of the so-called Cuban Five, that's a group of Cuban intelligence officials convicted on espionage charges. To put it more simply, they were spies for Cuba that were arrested here in the United States, served time in American prisons. Those three men will be sent back to Cuba in exchange for Alan Gross.

I'm going to get more now from CNN political commentator Ana Navarro. She's in Miami. And I know this touches you personally, Ana, because you've long fought for human rights in Cuba. So what's going through your mind this morning?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have mixed emotions, Carol. I am very happy for the release of Alan Gross. It was a huge injustice for him to be there. He was in great -- in very bad health. His mother died while he was in prison. This is a man who's lost over 100 pounds. He's lost his teeth. It was really dire, dire conditions that he was under in a Cuban jails for having done nothing. For having done something, which was to take internet connectivity to the Jewish community in Cuba -- something that would not be considered a crime in most countries, most countries that believe in freedom around the world.

But on the other hand, I am worried as an American about the precedent that we are setting of swapping American hostages, because that's what Alan Gross was. He was being held hostage by the Cuban regime. And swapping him for Cuban spies, people involved with the shootdowns of American citizens over international waters during the Brothers to Rescue incident. That is a very dangerous precedent.

And I'm also angry that the White House didn't think it was appropriate to weigh in with, to talk to, to consult, to advise a single member of Congress that represents the Cuban-American community, not Democrats, not Republicans, not Bob Menendez, the chair of Foreign Relations, not Marco Rubio, the incoming chair of Western Hemisphere, not Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. That, I find it very disrespectful and unilateral by this White House and frankly a great arrogance.

COSTELLO: Tell us more about your work in Cuba. Are you able to travel freely to the country?

NAVARRO: Me?

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I mean, no one is actually because you need special permission to go, but many Americans have visited Cuba.

NAVARRO: Oh, Carol, listen. This idea that there's great travel restrictions on Cuba right now is a myth and a fallacy. Everywhere I go, I hear people talking about how they're taking bike tours through Cuba, cultural tours through Cuba, salsa tours through Cuba. I hear them talk about the mojitos on the beaches. So it's been more symbolic than anything else, because they had already relaxed these travel sanctions a great deal.

I will not go to Cuba. It's personal choice of mine. I will not go give one penny of my money to a regime that violates human rights. I was also the ambassador to the U.N. Human Rights Commission and where one of the things I contributed to was passing a resolution condemning Cuba for human rights violations.

So believe you me, there is no way that I would set one foot, put one foot on Cuban soil while it is still under the oppression of the Castro regime.

COSTELLO: What about the idea that, by opening up relations between Cuba and the United States, would more likely topple the Castro regime than anything else, because it would introduce democracy through the internet, for example, to the citizens of Cuba.

NAVARRO: You know, I think that -- I think a lot of people with good intentions espouse that position. But my question is, well, what is it that the U.S. brings that every other country doesn't? Because Cuba does trade with practically every other country in the world -- Canada, Italy, all sorts of countries in Latin America and Europe. So is it that an American is that much different from a Canadian in terms of what they bring as far as person to person contact?

We have not seen that kind of change from the Cuban government despite the fact that many countries have normal relations. Most countries have normal relations with Cuba. And what we have seen is them attack the United States every time they can. We have seen the Russian government go in there lately and try to explore setting up a base, a Navy base at Lourdes. It is 90 miles from the coast of Florida. And they have been a thorn in our side every time they can. And anything other than an ally.

COSTELLO: All right, Ana, stand by. I want to go to Juan Carlos Lopez; he's part of CNN Espanol, a correspondent there. I just want to get from you how members of the Cuban community are reacting this morning.

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: I think this is just, Carol, sinking in. People are just starting to see. And we still don't have the full breadth of what, the changes that are going to come.

Now we know that the president will make his -- he will make his announcement at noon. But from what we're hearing from sources, this could be a very deep change in the way Washington deals with Havana and vice versa. And we'll see how it impacts the lives of those who travel to the island.

There's been an important shift in recent years. Remember, Cuba has lifted the restriction on Cubans leaving the island. Before, they needed an exit permit. They don't need that anymore. And the number of Cubans traveling to the United States has surged. Many of them -- and a lot of them are staying in the country. Remember, we have the wet foot/dry foot policy where Cubans who touch U.S. soil and stay for a year become legal residents and have a very important support package.

So all these things are part of this process. We'll see how deep the changes are. From what we're hearing, this will be significant, this will be historic. This will not only transcend the relationship between Cuba and the United States, but will also probably change the way Latin America deals -- some countries deal with the United States.

And I guess you'll have a very dynamic reaction from Cuban Americans. There are different points of view. There is a line that believes that no concessions should be made to Cuba and we'll be hearing that. There's a line that believes that things should change. So it's going to be interesting, and it's going to be interesting to hear what a Senator Robert Menendez, for example, has to say. He is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee. He's been working the issue of Cuba during his whole career. And whatever he has to say, or Senator Marco Rubio, will be I think indicative of what we can expect from the Cuban community in the United States.

COSTELLO: Well, I'd like to talk just briefly about younger Cubans, because, you know, the United States imposed its embargoes on Cuba, what, in 1960. It's been a long time. Fidel Castro has been ill and out of sight for quite a long time. And I would think that younger Cuban Americans have a much different impression of Cuba and relations between the United States and Cuba than older Cuban Americans do.

LOPEZ: And there are different generations of Cubans -- those who came directly from the island, and then you have several generations who have grown up in the United States as Cuban Americans. And many of them follow the issue of the islands; others follow the issues of their home country, the United States.

So they are interested in Cuba, but you have seen a shift in the way they perceive their relationship with Cuba. If you go to Miami now, the debate on the embargo on Cuba is much different than what it was 10 or 20 years ago. I happened to work as a local news reporter in the city, and just returning now you see that the debate is a lot different.

So there is no solid one reaction from the Cuban community. There are many perspectives, there are many angles. There are young Cuban Americans who've never been to the island who are passionate about the embargo and about what they believe is the lack of freedom on the island, but they're also a big group of Cubans who arrived recently who believe that either change is necessary in the relationship or who are more focused on their daily lives in the U.S. than they are what is happening on the island.

COSTELLO: OK, Juan, thank you so much.

I want to head to Cuba now because CNN has the only correspondent from the United States in Cuba, Patrick Oppmann. Ana was talking about what bad shape Mr. Gross was in. He lost 100 pounds, he can barely walk. He lost five teeth. He lost sight in one eye. You just talked to his attorney. What did he say? PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, his attorneys

told me that what's next for Alan Gross, he's going to enjoy a good scotch. He hasn't had a drink if five years, probably needs one after the experience he's gone through. A good cigar, which is a habit he's picked up in Cuban prison, and spend time with his family. He's not eager to do any interviews and be in the media limelight. He's just gone through one of the more horrific experiences, thinking that he was going to essentially die far from his country. And today must be something of a miracle for him because -- it was touch and go all along.

And looking back -- these at these major, major change which a U.S. official tells me Alan Gross's release is only the first domino that's going to fall. Other changes are going to happen. We're looking at potentially Cuba being removed from the state -- the list of state -- of countries that support state terrorism. We're looking at possibly, for the first time since the early 1960s, formal diplomatic relations being restored between the U.S. and Cuba.

So there's a lot more to come down through the pipeline. But at least for today, the headline appears that Alan Gross will spend his first day outside. He's almost never let outside of the Cuban prison cell where he was, and that the Cuban Five, the three remaining members of the Cuban Five, people who were expecting to spend long prison sentences in the United States, one member, the ringleader, was expecting to spend a life sentence in federal U.S. prison, will return free men and receive a hero's welcome when they come back as is expected today. They'll probably be greeted by President Raul Castro.

Another interesting thing, we talk about Cuba as a closed society. This news, as of 10 minutes ago, hadn't been reported in Cuba. All Cubans had been told that the president will make a very rare address, President Raul Castro, to the nation at noon to talk about U.S./Cuba relations, something he almost never does. But they haven't heard these details. They don't have easy access to the Internet; they don't have easy access to CNN.

So we're telling them. And for many of them, this is the biggest Cuba/U.S. news that they've heard in their lifetime. And so far they're tightly restricted. State media is not sharing them that news with them. At least not yet.

COSTELLO: All right, Patrick Oppmann, thanks so much. I've got to take a break. We've got much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. We start this hour with breaking news, what may be the biggest shift in Cuban American relations in decades. It appears to be underway. Alan Gross, an American contractor held prisoner in Cuba for the last five years, is on his way home right now. He's on a government plane headed back to the United States from Havana, Cuba. Gross was arrested in Cuba in 2009, accused of smuggling satellite

equipment, part of an American plan to increase Internet access in Cuba. Gross's health has been deteriorating in recent years and his family feared he may commit suicide if he wasn't released. In exchange for Gross's freedom, the release of three of the so-called Cuban Five. They were held on spy charges and attempted murder charges in the United States.

Right now, we are waiting to hear from President Obama. He is expected to speak about this at noon Eastern and what all of this means for the U.S. relationship with Cuba.

Let's start with our CNN global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott. She's in Washington with more. Good morning.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, Cuba has released Alan Gross as a humanitarian gesture, as you note, his health failing. The U.S. and naturally his family very concerned about him. But in addition, the U.S. and Cuba are swapping spies here. Now, the U.S. released those three Cuban intelligence agents, part of the so- called Cuban Five. Cuba is releasing a U.S. intelligence asset who has been in Cuba in jail for more than 20 years.

Administration officials tell me with Gross's release, President Obama set to announce later today the most sweeping overhaul in U.S. policy towards Cuba since the embargo was imposed in 1961.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT (voice-over): A historic hand shake between President Obama and Cuban leader Raul Castro at Nelson Mandela's funeral. An early sign perhaps of the sweeping change in U.S. policy towards the communist island.

Today, American government contractor Alan Gross finally coming home just two weeks after this desperate plea from his wife on the ailing Gross's fifth year in prison.