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Dr. Drew
Sony Hacking Scandal Continues; Lawyer Accused of Putting Female Clients in Trance for Sex; Sony Under Fire for Pulling "The Interview"; "7th Heaven" Dad Confessed to Child Molestation
Aired December 18, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the Sony hacking scandal. Embarrassing E-mails exposed. Humiliating conversations revealed. And,
angry movie stars on the attack.
Plus, this lawyer is accused of putting female clients into a trance, hypnotizing them for sex. Let us get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher. And, we are discussing Sony Pictures who yanked the movie "The Interview" before it
even arrived in theatres and now the critics say the United States is giving in to North Korea and giving them a huge win in cyber war. Watch
this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The cyber attack on Sony over the Seth Rogen-James Franco comedy, "The Interview." The United States now blaming
hackers working directly for North Korea. Sony is come under fire for pulling the movie about the assassination of the North Korean Leader Kim
Jong-Un before it hit theaters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID EDELSTEIN, FILM CRITIC: Hollywood has always run scare.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We saw major American theater owners back away from the movie and say, "Sorry, we are not going to air it on our screens."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN/T.V. PERSONALITY: What I hear was a terrible, terrible movie, Sony has absolutely no courage or guts. They should have
never pulled it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: It could be deemed an act of war. Can you imagine if we wind up in a war because of the guys from "Pineapple
Express?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That of course, Jimmy Kimmel on ABC. Now, Sam, the whole thing started with one e-mail, is that right?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: That is right, Dr. Drew. So, the E-mail was sent earlier this week, and I am going to read it. It reads, quote,
"Soon all the world will see what an awful movie Sony Pictures Entertainment has made. The world will be full of fear. Remember the 11th
of September, 2001? We recommend you to keep yourself distant from the places at that time."
PINSKY: And, let me get this right. That e-mail was sent from the cyber attackers and they believe now the government is saying that the cyber
attackers are attached to North Korea.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: All right. So, the question is, did the movie theaters owners overreact or Sony overreact? Let us discuss. Joining us, Anahita
Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com, Mark Eiglarsh from Speaktomark.com, and Alison Bedell, Private Investigator, co-host of "Catch A Contractor" on
Spike.
Now, take a look at this tweet from Jason. He says, quote, "A Seth Rogen movie has caused an international incident. That`s it. I`m done. Reality
has jumped the shark." So, the question is, are we overreacting to this movie getting pulled, Mark.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I clearly understand both sides. But, I would have liked to have erred on the side of government getting in,
protecting the movie theaters, because this is a defining moment.
If they can dictate what we see and what we hear, they are going to do it forever. So, I would like to know, is this is an 18-year-old acne-filled
idiot behind the computer? Is this a true threat? I would like to know all that. And, if it is not or if it is, I want to be protected.
PINSKY: Alison, from a security standpoint, is it realistic for the government to send in security forces officially to cover movie theaters,
so average citizens can watch freely as we like to do here, freely exert our privilege to watch film?
ALISON BEDELL, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, it is reasonable for there to be protection in specific places here there are threats. But, Sony here,
they capitulated to the Koreans, essentially, letting them stomp all over our amendments, specifically our right to freedom of speech.
They are giving an example now that they can step in whenever they want to at any time, any place, and dictate to us how our country is going to be
run, essentially, making us the victims of the world instead of the leaders of the world.
PINSKY: Yes. Alison -- Alison, I agree. And, Anahita, this has may -- beside myself. Anahita, why in the face of our privilege of free speech,
is not it our government`s obligation to protect that privilege? Should not they have done exactly what Mark is saying, that these idiots from the
outside threaten us, to the hell with that? We have an obligation to protect our citizen`s privilege.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And like Mark said, that is when the government steps in and has Sony`s back and has
the back of these movie theater owners and says, "Look, we are going to protect you. Make sure everyone is safe. You do not just cave in like a
coward. You protect your citizens. You protect their first amendment right to go see a movie.
PINSKY: How? What should they have done?
SEDAGHATFAT: And Sony as it may be.
PINSKY: What should they have done? Do they go out and attack the attackers? Or do they -- what do we do?
SCHACHER: They do not even know who the attackers are.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, they need to really figure out how they are going to respond to this type of threat.
SCHACHER: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: Because let me tell you. What we did in this instance, or what Sony did, it is setting such a dangerous precedent. Because we cannot
allow foreign dictators to threaten us in our country and then we go ahead and modify our behavior?
PINSKY: I am going to show you --
SEDAGHATFAR: That is the definition of being a coward.
EIGLARSH: It is tyranny. It is tyranny. Tyranny.
PINSKY: It is true. Mark -- Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, And I am sure you would agree that --
EIGLARSH: Let me -- Let me ask --
SEDAGHATFAR: -- that this is actually a slippery slope argument.
PINSKY: I actually -- Mark, I agree that Annahita is finally giving us the slippery slope.
SCHACHER: Wow!
PINSKY: When it comes to military.
EIGLARSH: There it is.
PINSKY: I think there is such thing as slippery slope.
SCHACHER: I just never thought that would come out of your mouth.
PINSKY: There it is.
EIGLARSH: It is a fair using. It is a fair using of slippery slope. Annahita, good job.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you, Mark.
EIGLARSH: You are a Devil`s advocate. You are the attorney representing either Sony or the movie theaters. They come to you and say what is our
liability? If somebody does, somehow bomb or do whatever some terrorist act, are we going to be held responsible? And your answer if you are being
intellectually honest with the audience here and to them --
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: "Well, yes."
PINSKY: Do not answer. I am going to show you a tweet first from Kristi - -
EIGLARSH: Right?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I said, "Absolutely."
PINSKY: Anahita, do not answer, yet.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
PINSKY: This is a tweet from Kristi says, "I am sure Sorry was worried"--
EIGLARSH: She just did.
SCHACHER: She defined it, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: -- I will give her more of a chance. "I`m sure Sony was worried about the movie becoming an excuse for copycats, etc to attack theaters as
much as anything." "And then the mom, meaning everyone`s social media, would be talking about how executives should have known that would happen
and were negligent." So, Anahita give us the full response to that. Is Sony taking these threats seriously and being responsible to make sure,
number one, nobody is harmed?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, of course I understand Sony`s position. They do not want to even take the chance that one person will be hurt. They will go
bankrupt. This would be a disaster, but I think this is where the government needed to step in like I said, and ensure that these citizens
would be protected. If you choose to go and see this movie, you should have that option. The solution is not caving in like a coward. What type
of precedent is that?
BEDELL: Sony is not being Chivalrous. Sony is not Chivalrous here.
PINSKY: Alison.
SEDAGHATFAR: What if another dictator --
BEDELL: They are not protecting anybody. What they are doing is protecting themselves from further embarrassment from more leaks that they
were threatened to give. They are giving out all these e-mails and information, social security numbers that making threats and Sony is, in
return, saying, "OK, we are going to shut it down," protecting themselves. They are not doing anything for the rest of us.
PINSKY: But really, Alison --
SEDAGHATFAR: But, that is the government`s stuff.
PINSKY: But, I agree with Anahita. Alison, is not it reasonable they protect themselves especially when the government, whose primary
responsibility is to keep their citizen safe."
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.
PINSKY: That is their primary responsibility.
BEDELL: It is not about safety --
PINSKY: Can even let them operate their business --
BEDELL: -- because it is about embarrassment.
PINSKY: They are not allowing our citizens to operate business freely because they are not willing to step in and protect them. Sam, celebrities
are taking the Twitter on.
SCHACHER: Yes. Celebrities are just as pissed, Dr. Drew, as our panelist. So, we have Rob Lowe, "Wow. Everyone caved. The hackers won. An utter
and complete victory for them. Wow.
PINSKY: Did not Rob Lowe mention Neville Chamberlain, which I love?
SCHACHER: Yes, he did.
PINSKY: I love. Love, love, love.
SCHACHER: Yes. Yes. Newt Gingrich, "No one should kid themselves. With the Sony collapse America has lost its first cyberwar. This is a very,
very dangerous precedent." And, Michael Moore, "Dear Sony Hackers: Now that u run Hollywood. I`d also like less romantic comedies, fewer Michael
Bay movies and no more Transformers."
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, Michael Moore is on the record -- Well, a few times I really strongly agree with them. He received a number of threats -- Mark, I will
go to you in a second. But, he received threats for his film "Fahrenheit 9/11".
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, they stepped up security. That is what you do.
BEDELL: Exactly.
SCHACHER: He never pulled it.
PINSKY: I mean what are we running away from here and what is going to come next, Mark?
EIGLARSH: Well, here is the thing. We are supposed to feel safe after 9/11. They protect the airports. They protect the ports. You know, they
are supposed to be protecting us, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: Here they know they are targeting not only movie theaters, but theaters that are showing this particular movie and they cannot protect us
in that scenario. So, how safe are we?
SEDAGHATFAR: That is exactly why. That is so un-American. That is why I do not necessarily blame Sony, 100 percent for this.
BEDELL: There are troops and police in Times Square.
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: Because realistically, if you want to just extend that argument, so Dr. Drew, what if another government official does not like
the Dr. Drew show --
PINSKY: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: -- and they threaten us. They threaten the CNN building. Do we even say, OK, you, guys, let us voluntarily just take the show off the
air?
PINSKY: I do not know.
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely not.
PINSKY: I just heard the cameraman say, they were not willing to hang out with us if such a threat occurred. I heard it. I heard it.
SCHACHER: You can do it in your living room. That would be fine.
PINSKY: Yes. We will do it there. I mentioned one of the thing -- how would we do it in response to this. I ought to bring it to the next break.
But let us remember, you keep saying it is un-American. Sony is a Japanese company. It is a Japanese company.
SEDAGHATFAR: But it is un-American for the government not to get involved.
PINSKY: I am just saying. I wonder if that has something to do with this.
SCHACHER: I do not think there has anything to do with the government. I think they are worried about God forbidden, if something did happen, then
they would have all the victim`s blood on their hands.
PINSKY: I agree. But, maybe the company leaders did not trust the government.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: I do not, who knows? Next up, we have a poll. Do you agree with Sony`s decision to cancel the release of "The Interview." I have a see
fall on one side of that.
And, later, a lawyer is accused of putting female clients. This is an amazing story into a sex trance. Yes, back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: North Korea was able to carry out an attack on the U.S. homeland that targets a major
American movie studio. It cost that movie studio millions of dollars. And, it struck fear in the hearts, at least if not of moviegoers but of
movie theater owners, enough that they cancelled the airing of this film.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: You are sitting in the back of a dark movie theater. The last thing you want to be thinking about is the possibility
of some sort of crime happening.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: My recommendation would be that people go to the movies.
DAVID EDELSTEIN, FILM CRITIC: I love, you know, sticking a middle finger up that mad totalitarian dictators. I hope this does not have a chill on
American political satire. I fear it will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and my behavior bureau joins us. Danine Manette, Criminal Investigator, Author of "Ultimate Betrayal"; Emily Roberts,
Psychotherapist and Spirit also psychotherapist. Now, Sam, some people are tweeting to defend Sony`s decision.
SCHACHER: Yes. I have a number of tweets here, Dr. Drew. One coming from Marc Andreessen. He is a well-known investor and software engineer. He
wrote, quote, "Making decisions with responsibility for employees & their families, customers & shareholders is somewhat harder than opining from a
keyboard."
PINSKY: Does anybody feel, on the panel, that we have sort of a -- I mean this is unfair for the behavior bureau, but almost like a patriotic
responsibility to ask Sony to please set up like a pay-per-view or something and that we all sit down on Friday night, and we all watch this
film --
SCHACHER: Stream it. Yes.
PINSKY: Stream it and pay for it.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And stand behind it and sitting at our houses and watch this thing.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Or go to some places that are well protected. Anybody else -- Danine, you feel like I do at all? Am I crazy?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: You know, the thing is, Dr. Drew, is that this is Sony`s issue. I do not look at this as an attack on my
country or an attack on my liberties. I look at this as Sony having been blackmailed and then making the decision unitarily on their own that they
were going to shut this movie down and not show it at all.
I do not know what you expect the government to do. We had no viable threat. We had no specific threat. There was no like real tangible
threat. Are we going to put like police in front of every single movie theater and frisk everybody and whatever?
PINSKY: Well, not every single one.
MANETTE: This is not about the country as a whole.
PINSKY: Well, it is going to be, though.
MANETTE: This is about Sony coming to something that they did not want to be let out in the future --
PINSKY: Spirit, my concern is that it is going to be. Finally, the slippery slope, I agree with that. And, this is just one of many cyber
attacks, apparently. Strangely enough, this is the one that catches our attention.
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, because this is capitalism at its best. This is an outsider who says, "Hey, listen. I have secrets about
you that I am going to tell. You need to shut it down."
You heard our president even encourage people to go to the movies to see it. But, this also comes back to social responsibility, Dr. Drew. Because
just because we have the right to make a movie like this, should we have?
Because I guarantee you if the shoe was on the other foot, if this was a country, another nation who had made a movie about assassinating our
president, would we not be up in arms?
PINSKY: Oh, come on, Spirit.
SPIRIT: Would we not be able to pissed off too?
PINSKY: People take aim at us all the time --
SPIRIT: Oh, no, no.
PINSKY: And then disparage this country in every possible way and then we stand back and go ahead. That is democratic privilege.
SPIRIT: Hey, listen. If I was going to make a movie about annihilating a certain group of Americans, would think that those certain group of
Americans would not want to up rise, do you know?
PINSKY: Well, genocide is a little bit different.
SPIRIT: Social responsibility.
PINSKY: Emily, you want to ring in here?
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, in the face of fear, they reacted impulsively. I think there is a lot of other options here that they could
have made. And, I think that I agree Sony kind of just made the impulsive decision and now moviegoers cannot see this movie and quite frankly I am
really disappointed because I want to see James Franco with his shirt off. That is really what I want.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: You can just go to his Instagram. You will see plenty of that.
ROBERTS: That is true.
PINSKY: Danine.
MANETTE: Dr. Drew, you cannot claim that the government is restricting your first amendment right when you are too scared to talk. It does not
work that way.
SPIRIT: That is right.
MANETTE: You cannot stop talking and then say --
PINSKY: No. They are not protecting my privilege.
MANETTE: But how can they protect your privilege when there is no credible viable distinctive threat against you?
PINSKY: The threat was against a particular address.
MANETTE: It is just some arbitrary thing.
PINSKY: It was those theaters that aired this film are going to be in trouble.
MANETTE: But what was the threat? What exactly was the threat? Where was it coming from, does anybody even know?
SCHACHER: They call themselves --
MANETTE: I was ready to go to the movies. A lot of people were.
SCHACHER: They call themselves "The Guardians of the Peace," but there were some threats prior where, listen, it is not physical threats; but they
were airing out and releasing all the employee`s social security numbers, pictures of them, addresses of them.
MANETTE: Because Sony was afraid. That is something Sony was afraid of.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
MANETTE: I think something was going to come out that was going to hurt their bottom line, that was going to affect them monetarily and they
decided to just pull the plug on everything. And, we may not even able to know what that is.
PINSKY: No. No. You are right.
MANETTE: We may never found out.
PINSKY: And, the disaster would have been people being harmed. I want to play something for you guys. Seth Rogen talked to Howard Stern. Seth is
co-star -- one of the stars, about how the hack should have been handled from his perspective. Take a look.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SETH ROGEN, STAR IN THE FILM "THE INTERVIEW": I am OK talking about my (EXPLECITIVE WORD) honestly, because I do not (EXPLECITIVE WORD) care that
much.
HOWARD STERN, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: Right.
ROGEN: And, the stuff that was stolen from me on the grand scale (EXPLECITIVE WORD) is not that bad. But it is (EXPELCITIVE WORD) stolen.
STERN: This attack is no different than a 9/11 type attack?
ROGEN: I do think it is (EXPLECITIVE WORD) up how everyone is doing exactly what these criminals want.
STERN: Yes! Stolen Material.
The country should have rallied around Sony and we should have, as Americans, said this is wrong, we are under attack. I absolutely -- You
know --
ROGEN: That is very nice of you, Howard.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: I agree with Rogen. I agree with Stern. I think the president should have announced we are under attack, because we are. But in the
supreme hubris, the Daily News -- Emily, help me -- Daily News, the next day called Howard Stern an idiot for comparing 9/11 and this cyber attack.
Of course, he knows the difference between people being killed and something electronic. But this electronic -- what if the next thing they
decide to get into is the nuclear arsenal -- then people are not getting killed? I do not understand. Help me. I am so upset about this.
ROBERTS: Right. If they can hack in so easily to all these different corporations, can you imagine what else they can hack into?
PINSKY: And, secrets can be stolen. It is just we do not understand the magnitude of this thing. Now, on the phone I have on the phone Jon
Leiberman. He is the host of Leiberman Live on SiriusXM Radio. He is an investigative reporter for the "Howard Stern" show. Jon, thanks for
joining us.
So, did you see this -- let me start with this. Did you see this tweet from Rob Lowe? He wrote, "I saw Seth Rogan at JFK. Both of us had never
seen or heard of anything like this. Hollywood has done Neville Chamberlain proud today."
JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATOR REPORTER: I did see that. And, you know, Drew, it is interesting. If you look at the definition of terrorism, that
is the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aim. And, I think it is exactly clear what we are seeing here is, in many ways,
an act of terrorism and the government is -- I disagree with some on your panel.
The government is readying a response right now, because I have been speaking with law enforcement sources all day long and they are readying a
very large response from what I am being told.
PINSKY: Jon, where is that coming from, the FBI, CIA, the military? How does that work?
LEIBERMAN: It is coming from FBI and homeland security, and the guys that I am talking to are telling me that it is all hands on deck in the cyber
arena. So every investigator is working around the clock, who specializes in -- Drew, the fear at this point is not simply where the Sony hack attack
originated from and who was responsible. It is what do these hackers have other future plans in the works right now?
PINSKY: And, Jon, am I right to be concerned that some major military installment could be compromised or something God forbid happen as a
result, no?
LEIBERMAN: Well, absolutely. I mean look, nuclear reactors are a first thing looked at, the electric grid, the financial industry. These are all
areas that the government is trying to protect to try and prevent what could be potentially, you know, an upcoming attack.
PINSKY: And, let me ask this one last thing, Jon. Did the Daily News apologize for their hubris? That was unconscionable on my opinion.
LEIBERMAN: I do not think -- I have not seen anything in terms of an apology. But, you know, I think what you are seeing now, and I think when
you see the response from the U.S. Government, I think it is going to bear out the fact that this is indeed a terror attack.
PINSKY: And, it is weird to me that it all kind of -- the conversation really spun out of Howard studio that morning. I mean it really -- that
was the first place I heard about it in the media.
LEIBERMAN: It was, absolutely. I mean so many conversations start there, and this conversation is far from over.
PINSKY: All right, Jon, thanks so much. Tonight, I am going to go to our poll. We are asking, "Do you agree with Sony`s decision to cancel the
release of "The Interview." Right now 80 percent of you disagree. They say, "No." 80 percent of you disagree. Before we go to a break, Danine,
you look upset. I wanted to give you a chance to say something. Go ahead.
MANETTE: Yes. Where are we going to direct this response? I mean is it North Korea? They cannot even save their own people. If we really believe
that they are the masterminds behind this, then we are fools.
And, as far as the biggest spectrum, this is the new world. We have woodpeckers on the ark. So, this is the beginning of a whole lot more. We
have to figure out how we are going to look at this on a broader range and in a broader arena than trying to focus on this particular one attack and
saying that this is a war against our country.
SPIRIT: Exactly.
PINSKY: And, Danine --
SCHACHER: Woodpeckers on the ark --
PINSKY: Woodpeckers on the arc.
SCHACHER: That is a crazy metaphor. Scary.
CLANTON: We have to wake up. If it is take an movie for Americans to realize that there are cyber threats out there, this is scary if this is
what it has taken to the American people to realize that they think are happening. Come on. Wake up.
PINSKY: Spirit, I agree. I think that is --
ROBERTS: I would still go to the movies.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Everybody -- Everybody, go to the movies. Sony, please, give us a site we can pay per view site we can watch this damn movie. You are going
to watch this film, damn it. I am going to make you watch it with me. Give us a site and we can do it.
SPIRIT: They are not going to do it. You will never see it.
SCHACHER: Well, it does not look --
CLANTON: They like money too much like everybody else.
PINSKY: All right.
CLANTON: This is about money for them. It is my principle.
PINSKY: I am going in an entirely different directional. We are going to talk about a divorce attorney who may have been hypnotizing his clients and
then having sex with them.
And, later, Steven Collins has his first on-cam interview about molestation -- about his molestation scandal. We are back with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The legal motion reads like a sexually graphic novel that would turn an average reader 50 shades of red. It
alleges that Attorney Michael W. Fine hypnotized at least two clients into performing sex acts.
Jane Doe number one, actually, recorded her meetings and brought them to Sheffield Village Police. Fine allegedly said to her, "I want you to look
into my eyes. You are going to feel such attraction and arousal and excitement that you are going to demand that I touch you and you touch me.
Do you understand?"
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Mark and Alison. That attorney, Michael Fine, reportedly told one of his victims, quote, "You are being made love
to by the world is greatest lover." He has been --
(LAUGHING)
Anahita is already laughing. He has been suspended from the Ohio bar but no criminal charges have been filed yet. Sam, how did this all unravel?
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh, Dr. Drew. So, Michael Fine, he has been an attorney for over 30 years, OK? And, he specializes in divorce cases. So,
as you heard on that previous speech, two different women alleged that when they would go to meetings with them he would hypnotize them and he would --
they would have to be forced to perform these sex acts.
PINSKY: Were they recording something?
SCHACHER: Well, yes. OK. How the alleged hypnosis came to light is one of the women recorded two different phone conversations. And, in these
phone conversations, some really explicit language came about through Michael and then she gave that to the police. Then the police wired her.
She went into his office --
PINSKY: I see.
SCHACHER: And as soon as he started to bring up sex acts, they entered.
PINSKY: Wow. Now, a motion seeking Michael Fine`s law license revocation including the transcript of alleged recording as what Sam`s talking about
here as he reportedly worked to hypnotize Jane Doe, number one. We have an auto recreation. I guess this is what the police got when she was wired
.SCHACHER: Correct.
PINSKY: This has been edited for time and it is graphic. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MICHAEL FINE, ATTORNEY: I want you to look into my eyes. You are going to feel such attraction and arousal and excitement that you are going to
demand that I touch you and you touch me. Do you understand?
And, when you do, incredible power and arousal will fill you. Fill you and fill you to the most amazing climax you can ever imagine, because is not
that what you desire? At the count of three, you will not be able to control yourself. You will remain ravines, incredibly horny, amazingly,
amazingly aroused and excited.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: OK. Anahita, you were laughing at this story. Does that sound a little bit more troubling now?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, it does not, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: In fact, I was laughing because I wish I could hypnotize my clients to do whatever I told them to do. It would make job a lot easier.
SCHACHER: Oh, Anahita!
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: That is a slippery slope, counselor. Very slippery slope.
EIGLARSH: Very slippery. Very wet.
SEDAGHATFAR: Take your mind out of the gutter.
PINSKY: Where are you going with this?
SCHACHER: Erotic Jedi mind tricking. I like it, Anahita.
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: Not in that way. Have you, guys, seen my clients. Trust me, not in that way. But, I do not buy for a moment that these women were
hypnotized into having sexual relationships.
PINSKY: What about that recording?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think this was some type of role playing, some type of consensual behavior. Because, Dr. Drew, you cannot hypnotize somebody to
do something that they do not want to do. If that was the case, any man would go right now and learn this -- how to hypnotize women.
PINSKY: Listen, you cannot --
SEDAGHATFAR: That is the prospect.
PINSKY: Listen. That is why when people do hypnosis, that is why they build things up like that over and over and over again. It is on
preposterous degree because they are trying to get this person to engage in a behavior that there may be some resistance to. Mark, this is to me a
problem.
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
EIGLARSH: It is a problem. But, it is also going to be a problem for prosecutors, because some people buy into it. It seems like you do.
Anahita does not. That is problem for prosecutors. I think it is going to come down to experts being able to say that this can be done.
Where I have read that it can be done is not necessarily that somebody would sleep with this predatory horrible attorney, but he would suggest to
them, "I am your husband" or I am Brad Pitt."
PINSKY: Wow.
EIGLARSH: "You will now see me as Brad Pitt, when I snap my fingers."
PINSKY: Yes. "I am the world`s greatest lover." Right.
EIGLARSH: So, now -- Right. So, now, they are willing to do something that they would not ordinarily do with him, but it is not really him.
PINSKY: Yes. They do not see him. Alison, you are kind of smiling too, though.
BEDELL: First of all, Anahita, I just think it is you are ridiculous. It is incumbent on the attorney to always demonstrate professional behavior
with his client, whether or not they initiate the behavior, whether they consent to it, whether or not he suggests it. He has to remain
professional all times.
They come to him for professional service. As that stands, he has to provide that service and not only represent himself, but also attorneys as
a whole. They cannot give in to their clients when they are in such a state, a place of need.
PINSKY: Vulnerable.
SEDAGHATFAR: First of all -- whether or not I hypnotized them or whether they wanted it. He should not have been engaged in that kind of behavior
to begin with. First of all, I am not ridiculous by any means --
BEDELL: Are you serious?
SEDAGHATFAR: Hold on. I am not ridiculous by any means, let us get that straight. And, number 2, to suggest that somebody can hypnotize an
individual to have sexual relations with him is unprecedented. If you can show me one case, one expert that would come and testify at that trial, I
would stand corrected.
PINSKY: Then what?
SEDAGHATFAR: Do I think this is unethical?
PINSKY: Testify to what?
SEDAGHATFAR: Do I think this is unethical for an attorney to do? Yes. Do I think it is criminal? No way.
PINSKY: All right. Now, according to motions filed with the highest state Supreme Court, the client identified as Jane Doe -- and by the way,
producers get a meme up there with Anahita saying --
SCHACHER: I am not ridiculous.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Jane Doe One alleges that after meeting with the Attorney Fine in his office, she began to notice, quote, "This is again the graphic stuff,
that she was wet in her vaginal area, that her bra was disheveled, that she could not recall the entire duration of the meetings, you know? And,
Anahita, you are saying that it is not possible to hypnotize somebody?
SCHACHER: So, are these women lying?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think if that was the case, then every man right now would go take a hypnosis class and learn how to do this. And, Dr. Drew, you
forgot to mention a fact, one of these women that went to the police told them what happened. The police said monoester said, "Do not go back to
this attorney`s office." Guess what she did? She went back two, three more times. So, you really have to question was this consensual? --
EIGLARSH: The spell. The spell was huge, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: That does not justify his behavior.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We received a statement from Michael Fine`s attorney, he writes, quote, "Mr. Fine has been suspended by the highest Supreme Court from
practical law. He has notified clients, he cannot represent them. There has been no further action relative to him practicing law at this time.
Now, and also, Mark, I heard -- I think we are going to bring up later that he is getting some sort of medical treatment and to me, that tells me that
something was going on. I do not know what, but something need to be dealt with.
EIGLARSH: No, no. Somewhat that tells me, sorry to be so skeptical is that his bar license is in jeopardy. How he feeds his family, how he buys
his little watches that he swings back and forth to hypnotize these women.
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh.
(LAUGHING)
EIGLARSH: He may not have that source of funds. And, so, now he needs to get some treatments, so now he can be all well and good and cured.
PINSKY: All right. All right. Here is what I want to do.
EIGLARSH: Yes.
PINSKY: I want to talk to the members of our panel that have been hypnotized, Sam.
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh.
PINSKY: Sam has been hypnotized.
SCHACHER: "No" in quotes.
PINSKY: Mark, we will tell about their experiences.
EIGLARSH: I have got the video.
PINSKY: You got the video.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: Why did not you tell us before the show.
EIGLARSH: I got the video.
PINSKY: We will play it. We will put it on the website. All right, and later, the actor at the center of the sex scandal says, he is a flawed
person. You will hear from him after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FINE: I want you to look into my eyes. You are going to feel such attraction and arousal and excitement that you are going to demand that I
touch you and you touch me. Do you understand?
And, when you do, incredible power and arousal will fill you. Fill you and fill you to the most amazing climax you can ever imagine, because is not
that what you desire? At the count of three, you will not be able to control yourself. You will remain ravines, incredibly horny, amazingly,
amazingly aroused and excited.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: So creepy. Back with Sam, Danine, Emily and Spirit. That was an audio re-creation depicting an alleged attorney of Ohio Attorney, Michael
Fine. Law license has been suspended. Pending a criminal investigation. He is accused of hypnotizing at least two female clients and then forcing
them to have sex. Now, Sam, I promised everyone we would talk about your hypnosis before the break.
SCHACHER: Oh, Gosh. Great. OK. Yes. When I was in high school, I was at our state fair and they called -- I was like 14, 15 years old. They
called like a dozen of us on stage, hypnotized us. Because I did not feel like I was hypnotized.
They had me perform like a spice girl. And, then I was being attacked by aliens and I thought I was faking it. I got on stage. I told them to my
friends. I faked it. But my friends were not convinced because they said that my performance was not Sam-like. Typically, I would have laughed and
ran off stage.
PINSKY: People often come away from hypnosis particularly when it is shaming or embarrassing. They will go, "Oh, I have full control."
SCHACHER: I remember it all. I did.
PINSKY: They remember it for the most part --
SCHACHER: So, you are saying I was hypnotized?
PINSKY: You were hypnotized.
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: Spirit, you are a therapist. Do you ever use hypnosis in therapies?
CLANTON: You know, no. I am not a certified hypnotherapist, but I do have several colleagues who are. And, it is a very powerful thing.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: The only thing here, though, Dr. Drew, that interesting is as you hear them make those statements, as you hear him say that. At that point,
those ladies are not hypnotized yet. He is in the process of taking them to that state.
So, I find that interesting. Bu, regardless, of any of that, he has acted unethically, because he is engaged in sexual contact with these women,
whether they were hypnotized or not.
PINSKY: That is right.
CLANTON: He should never be allowed to practice in any arena requiring licensure ever, ever again.
PINSKY: And, Danine, you were --
CLANTON: Professional misconduct.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: I cannot stand it.
PINSKY: You are nodding aggressively -- vigorously at what Spirit was saying.
MANETTE: Absolutely. You know, I remember when we were in college and a hypnotist guy would come around and do these little seminar things in the
cafeteria. And, the first thing he said is that you have to be open to this. You have to really just relax and be open to it or it is not going
to happen for you.
I want to know why someone is going into a lawyer`s office and allowing him to talk to her and have this dirty sex talk with her until you get to the
point where you are open to being hypnotized.
PINSKY: It is a great question.
MANETTE: I called BS.
PINSKY: OK. Emily, I would say what happened was he was saying, "Oh, you seem stressed. I know a little bit of stress reduction therapy. I know
how to do this, make people less stress." And if he did, it takes about 10, 15 minutes to get somebody under.
SCHACHER: Have you ever hypnotized somebody?
PINSKY: I have hypnotized people.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: Yes, I have
SPIRIT: I have too.
PINSKY: Yes. It is pretty powerful stuff. And, then what they do is add all these suggestions in that we are hearing just now. Emily, what is your
take?
ROBERTS: I do not think that they went in there thinking they were going to be hypnotized at all.
PINSKY: But, maybe he was saying, "I am just going to relax. I know some relaxation techniques."
CLANTON: Yes. Let us do some breathing technique.
PINSKY: Yes and did not understand.
CLANTON: We are going to count to 10, as we walk down this road, you are going to feel more relaxed and more relaxed --
SCHACHER: What a jerk.
CLANTON: And, now you will become open to suggestion.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: Right. You have to have the buy-in or be very vulnerable at that time. And, this has been going on for years and years and years. People
have been using hypnosis in a variety of psychological ways, but he is a lawyer, number one. And number 2, he was using these vulnerable women and
taking advantage of them in my opinion. And, I think that is really, really messed up. And, he is really creepy. So yes.
PINSKY: It was pretty creepy just hearing that stuff. Now, Jane doe number one hired Michael Fine to help her with a custody suit. The other
alleged Jane Doe number 2, hired him as a divorce attorney. Now, these -- Again, these are difficult, vulnerable situations.
ROBERTS: Yes.
PINSKY: Do you think that is how he was able to have his way?
ROBERTS: I absolutely think so. I mean why would you be going to him -- think about it. A lot of lawyers, they want their clients to feel
comfortable and they want them to feel like they care about them. But, this guy took it to another level. And, yes, they were very emotional.
And, think about it, divorce is traumatizing.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And child custody, too.
ROBERTS: Yes. Yes. And, they go to see somebody who they think is going to take care of them.
PINSKY: Now, I mentioned that an attorney for Michael Fine told ocal affiliate that the client was undergoing, quote, "Medical treatment" but
would not elaborate any type of treatment. So, Emily, I would let you finish what you are saying. But, also ask, does that inform you in any
way, does that flush out this story in any way? Again, we do not know the facts, but he is undergoing medical treatment now.
ROBERTS: For what, sex addiction?
PINSKY: Right.
ROBERTS: For being, I mean --
CLANTON: For being a slime ball? They do not like slime ball.
ROBERTS: Yes.
CLANTON: I do not think slime ball treatment is any where in there.
ROBERTS: No.
PINSKY: Danine, any thoughts?
MANETTE: I am sorry. I am just not buying this. I am just not buying it. I understand that as an attorney, that he has completely gone over the edge
and that he learned to be disbarred and because he steps over every line there is. But you just do not keep going back to somebody`s office time
and time again. The woman has three or four orgasms each time. I mean I am just not buying it.
(CROSSTALK)
CLANTON: Think about it, this is your lawyer, this is power, this is intimacy, this is sex in an office.
PINSKY: Yes. This is misallocation of authority. And, Sam, what she is saying is that maybe they were engaged in some kind of consensual thing.
SCHACHER: Right. It is so abusing in his power. I still cannot believe you hypnotized people.
PINSKY: I did. Before we go to break, read Mark Eiglarsh`s -- Wait. Do you want people to read that, Eiglarsh. I will read it. Here it comes up
here. There it is. "I have been retained what Anahita Sedaghatfar and we hereby declared that she is not ridiculous."
SCHACHER: She is not.
PINSKY: And wait. There is -- Our production staff is so crack, and there is the meme for Anahita.
SCHACHER: Yey.
PINSKY: I am not ridiculous. There it is. There is meme on the left there. "I am not ridiculous by any means. Thank you."
SCHACHER: It should have been by any memes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: A famous T.V. dad speaks on the camera for the first time about his admissions that he had molested underage girls. We will get into that,
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): Best known for his role as pastor on the television show "7th Heaven."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMAL REPORTER (2): Steve Collins is now publicly confessing to sexually abusing underage girls.
SCHACHER: In the article, 1973, exposed himself to a preteen girl twice. 1982, exposed himself to a teenage girl. 1994, exposed himself to a
teenage girl.
ERICA AMEICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I believe that he is being honest and he is trying to say what he thinks he did wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He is a freak and pervert and he may be trying to resurrect his career.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Mark and Danine. Stephen Collins, a 7th Heaven dad confessed to having molested three underage girls that happened
over 20 years ago. He told Katie Couric from Yahoo News about one of those incidents. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLLINS, 7TH HEAVEN FATHER: My wife had gone to sleep, and she and I were watching T.V. alone together. And, I took her hand and moved it in
such a way that she was touching me inappropriately. I -- there was no -- neither of us really moved. Neither of us moved. I think I knew
immediately at that moment, I knew that something unthinkably wrong had just happened, that I could not take back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Spirit, what do you take away from what he is saying here in the statement yesterday, do you have a sense that this is gen genuine?
CLANTON: Yes, I absolutely do. I mean I do not know what his motivation is, but he is really at least in my mind, really working hard to make
amends. And, Dr. Drew, you know, I have worked with sex offenders for a long time, a long time.
And, it is something that we really have to decide in this country what we want to do about this kind of crime. We know that one in four men and
women, by the time they are 18, have had some form of sexual abuse happen to them.
And we have not had this conversation yet in this country, what we want to do with individuals who are suffering from this. We really have to have
this dialogue.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Danine, I know you are pretty harsh on this one. Although, he said it was unthinkably wrong, he exposed himself to two other
girls subsequently.
MANETTE: And, I understand that. And, unlike Spirit, I work with sex offenders but, I worked with them in the criminal justice system when they
are in custody when they have been convicted. And, very seldom if ever, do you hear them even acknowledge that they have done anything wrong.
They feel as though somebody set them up or what they did was helpful to their victim. They were just trying to love them or support them and they
come up with all this disgusting verbiage to justify their behavior. What I see with this man, however, is somebody who is taking ownership.
It is too late for us to do something criminally with him. So, now, where do we go from here? Do we continue to just attack the man constantly or do
we allow him to continue to repair his life, repair himself, go through the process of getting help and moving forward.
PINSKY: Mark?
EIGLARSH: I have prosecuted guys like this. I currently defend some. And my feeling, he looked like he was acting. Sorry, guys. I just thought --
I did not buy it. I think that what he did to these girls forever changed their life and he did not seem believable to me. He seemed like he was
acting.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what was your reaction to the tape, what did you make of his demeanor?
PINSKY: My gut tells me, and I have no business making this kind of assessment -- You know, when people say, "Well, how do you know?" I do not
know. So, this is strictly from far, far away. Spirit, maybe help me out to make sure I am not saying anything completely out of school here.
It felt like a genuine attempt. It seemed like the right material, the right direction, but I am not sure it went all the way in the way it needs
to. Maybe it will one day. This is hard work.
CLANTON: Yes. It is hard.
PINSKY: Something happened to him probably. We do not know. But that is often where a lot of this stuff comes from.
CLANTON: Very likely. One of the trainings I do nationally is called darkness to light. And, it is a training that teaches individuals how to
protect children from abuse. The bigger thing that we need to take away from this is how was he allowed to be alone with these victims? How he was
allowed to groom these victims.
And, America really needs to hear this so we learn how to protect our children. That needs to be the bigger conversation. Whether we believe
him or not, we cannot go back 20 years, we were never there. But what can we learn from this in order to protect those children there being molested
tonight and that it will be molested tomorrow.
PINSKY: And, Mark, last thought. But, acting as if sometimes is OK as long as somebody has adequate structure around them and keeps acting as if.
EIGLARSH: No question, it is the step in the right direction, but it is possible he cannot realize the extent to which he caused harm, because how
do you live with yourself when you realize how much you have devastated someone`s life like that?
CLANTON: Actually, he can.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: If he has undergone treatment, that is one portion of the treatment.
PINSKY: They do. That is right.
CLANTON: It is about learning to make amends and learning the impact. Because as you heard, when they are criminals before they are convicted,
they really do not understand their behaviors. They will say, I never hurt my victim. This was an act of love. This was a bonding. But in
treatment, that is one of the portions of treatment. It is to teach them that negative consequences and the lifelong impact that they have upon
their victims.
PINSKY: We are back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Mark and Danine. We are discussing the actor Stephen Collins who just had admitted to molesting three underage
girls between 1973 and 1994. Here now is more from the Katie Couric, Yahoo interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: I did not want to have to deal with these things publicly. I had dealt with them very, very strongly and committedly in my private life.
But, I think I am human being with flaws, and I have done everything I can to address them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Mark, should he be or even could he be on the sex offender registry?
EIGLARSH: Not unless he is convicted. Innocent until proven guilty in this country and unless the statute of limitations has not run, then, you
know, the guy can say what he wants.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Even though he admitted it and there are children, though? Mark, even though he admitted it and there are children?
EIGLARSH: It depends what state and depends how old.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: If they are under 12, let us say like here in Florida. It is capital sexual battery, it goes for a lot longer, obviously.
PINSKY: And, Danine, this time he did look a little more less genuine to me. I do not know.
MANETTE: Really?
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: You know, I do not see that. I am sorry. I just want to know as a society, what does it take for us to allow people to reintegrate
themselves back into a community? The fact that this guy has stood up and taken ownership speaks volumes to me, even if he is acting a little bit or
whatever, Bill Cosby cannot seem to do that, and I am sure that means a lot to the victims. So what is it going to take?
PINSKY: I agree with you.
MANETTE: What do we do?
PINSKY: I totally agree. We were asking Bill Cosby to do the same thing, but we are now going after Stephen Collins for having done it.
MANETTE: Yes.
EIGLARSH: Is anyone ready to have him babysit your kids?
MANETTE: No. Just because you forgive, you do not have to forget.
CLANTON: And, you never should. And, you never should.
MANETTE: There should always be parameters.
PINSKY: Nor would I have my addicts live in a crack house, you know? I do not care how good he is in recovery.
MANETTE: We cannot just keep beating up on people that are taking ownership and showing remorse in my opinion.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: And, Sam but there is more from this interview. What else do we have?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK. He also said, quote, "I am a flawed person and in the church, it is actually one of the things I love about the church. It is
one of the main things about the Christian faith, is you know, Christ said in so many ways, bring me that which is about he was broken. And, most
people are broken in some way."
CLANTON: Amen.
MANETTE: All people are broken in some way.
PINSKY: Well, you are right, we all have flaws. But sometimes those flaws are profound.
MANETTE: It is huge. But that does not mean it is unforgivable in the steps he has taken. He has taken corrective steps. He has been in therapy
20 years. He has not reoffended to the best of anyone`s knowledge in 20 years. Move forward.
PINSKY: I did an interview for "Extra" where the reporter. I do not know if this is accurate. It said he reported that he was now out of treatment.
I kind of reacted to that, because if you had behavior that needs 12 steps, which he did tell you, that is a chronic thing. You need that chronically.
I do not understand stepping out.
CLANTON: And the recidivism rates for abuse --
EIGLARSH: What do the victims say? What do the victims say about it? That is what I want to know.
SCHACHER: Good point, Mark.
PINSKY: Spirit, last thought?
CLANTON: Recidivism rates for sexual abuse are so high.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: Higher for same sex when you are talking about men. But this is a situation where he should always just go in and hold accountability.
PINSKY: Yes. Why not?
MANETTE: And he has a sign on him.
PINSKY: All right. We have got to go, guys. DVR us please and you can watch us any time. "FORENSIC FILES" up next.
END
