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At This Hour

Obama Not Acting Like Lame-Duck; Fugitive in Cuba on FBI Most- Wanted List; FBI Confirms Sony Cyber Attack to North Korea

Aired December 19, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You might remember about six weeks ago the president's party lost a big election in a big way. What has the president done since then? Boom, one big action after another.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A whole lot. Not typical actions of lame-duck presidents: Negotiating with China to address climate change, sheltering millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation through his executive actions and, of course, this week, the break through deal with Cuba, normalizing relations with that nation for the first time in over 50 years. Again, all done without consulting Congress.

PEREIRA: We did learn a short time ago that house Speaker John Boehner has issued the formal invitation for the president to come to the House chamber to deliver the State of the Union address. That will be on January 20. As you can imagine, the White House accepted the invitation.

PEREIRA: Right now, the president is getting ready to hold his final news conference of the year before he and his family leave for their Christmas vacation. We will, of course, bring those comments to you live next hour right here on CNN.

Let's talk about some of these resent moves. We have with us today presidential historian, Douglas Brinkley.

Great to have you back.

And look who is here, our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, @THISHOUR on the Friday before many people are taking off for the holidays.

It's great to have you both.

Gloria, specifically, you wrote an interesting op-ed. The title is -- I love this title -- "Obama Sheds Clark Kent Demeanor, Tries on Superman Costume." Tell us what you mean.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: OK, first of all, I'm not saying he's superman but I am saying he is trying to soar a little bit. He's trying to fly. Everybody assumes OK, lame-duck president, can't get anything done, lost control of the Congress. And what he's doing is he's flexing his executive action muscles and he's saying, look, there are things that I can do as president of the United States that I don't need Congress for. He's got a list. He's going down it and he's checking it twice as we say at this time of year and it's no secret to anybody, Michaela, that this is a president who is frustrated during the last election. He had to stay largely out of in those red states. He was trying to protect a lot of Democrats by not causing controversy. Now I think he feels a little unburdened by that and in doing so he's actually setting the agenda for the 2016 election in many ways.

PEREIRA: Doug, it's interesting. The White House had said that they had been planning for this interim, this period between the election and January when the new Congress comes in. But the execution of this plan has been in some ways more methodical than any period that I can remember in this presidency. If you look back on history, is there precedent for this? Has any administration ever just laid out a series of things like this without Congress?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, you know, I think Gloria is right. There's a bit of a superman act going on here. Meaning "I'm freed from Congress, I'm going to be the Mr. Executive." I've never seen anything like it with the number of executive orders and the audacity that the president is showing. Some could write a book just about the last six weeks of 2014 and do very well. Now, there have always been crowded moments in presidential history but even in -- not even mentioning in the leading into us the president talked about getting the troops out of Afghanistan by the end of the year. Add that into the fray. It's all going on. Here he is, the president going for his 17-day vacation having to deal with North Korea which could be the beginning of a very serious national security issue and the -- I think biggest thing outside of killing of Osama bin Laden in foreign policy is the normalization can of relations with Cuba and will he go there in 2015? This will be a fascinating press conference today.

PEREIRA: It really is. A lot of people are interested to hear what he these say.

It's interesting. I recall in this year -- hard to believe the year is already over, Gloria -- the president said this was going to be his year of action.

BORGER: Here we are.

PEREIRA: The White House will say look, he's on a mission to get things done. On the other side of the aisle, there are folks saying he's overstepping his authorities, Gloria.

BORGER: Sure. And this does play into the Republican narrative of the imperial presidency, the overreaching president. And I would have to say that we haven't seen in end of this debate and I do believe that it could go all to the Supreme Court and the case of -- in the case of immigration. For example, does the president have the constitutional authority to do what he did? There's also going to be Congressional votes on the question of Cuba. There are a lot of Republicans who would not vote for what the president wants, lifting sanctions. I think you'd have to say that the odds are against lifting sanctions. Will they allow an ambassador to be confirmed to go to Havana? That's -- that story remains to be seen. So I think while the president is doing all of this as he said he would, I think it still has to play out in Congress to a certain degree.

PEREIRA: Gets to the issue, Doug, of can he keep it up.

BORGER: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: This is what he's been doing for six weeks now. Will the president be so active with a new Republican Senate?

BRINKLEY: I think so. My time I've spent with President Obama is that he came in hoping to be made an LBJ-like president having legislative record and he's going out trying to be like Theodore Roosevelt and FDR after 1937, just signing executive orders galore. That is president that knows that Lincoln emancipated slaves with an executive order and Theodore Roosevelt created the Grand Canyon, national park when the Senate didn't want to deal with it or John F. Kennedy did the Peace Corps. You're seeing he's getting traction.

In the last two years, particularly in foreign policy, there's great openings for Barack Obama. And I know climate change, where a lot of politicians feel it's not that important, the president thinks it's the defining issue of our time. He's invoked in the both his inaugurals and he's starting to build an impressive record of being the global champion on climate.

BORGER: And here's what's also interesting heading into 2016. If you look at the way Republicans have reacted just, for example to the normalization of relations with Cuba. You have Rand Paul saying "you know what? I think that might be a good idea." And you have Marco Rubio on the other side saying this is a nightmare, a disaster, this president doesn't know how to negotiate. And you'll see that play out in the Republican Party, again, boxing Republicans in on certain positions as they head into 2016.

PEREIRA: And if there's a backlash against the Democrats, it will come out against somebody like Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Gloria Borger, Douglas Brinkley, thanks so much.

PEREIRA: I was thinking if only there was a presidential historian that could write the book of the last six weeks, oh, there's one.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BRINKLEY: I might do it. I'm intrigued.

PEREIRA: We'd read it.

Thanks so much.

Certainly there will be a lot of key and pressing questions for the president today, Cuba, immigration, now North Korea. Again, that news conference from the president 1:30 p.m. eastern. Watch it live on CNN. After, he'll sit down with Candy Crowley for an exclusive interview. You can catch that Sunday morning on State of the Union.

PEREIRA: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, One of America's most wanted has taken refuge in Cuba for decades, so what happens now to this woman? Will Havana send her back?

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PEREIRA: You might recall just two days ago the president of the United States announced more normalized relations with Cuba. How will this impact the economies of both nations? What about travel? Legal issues like this one?

PEREIRA: There is a burning legal issue here. Joanne Chesimard was convicted of killing a New Jersey state trooper more than 40 years ago. She was busted out of prison, she broke out of prison, escaped from the United States, was granted political asylum in Cuba, so now this burning question is will she be returned?

We'll get the story from our national correspondent, Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOANNE CHESIMARD, GRANTED POLITICAL ASYLUM IN CUBA: We can learn a lot from people.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Assata Shakur is somewhat of a cause celeb in Cuba, called on to speak about issues such as equality and human rights. But it wasn't always like this. In fact, she didn't always go by the name Assata Shakur.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The addition of Joanne Chesimard to the FBI's most-wanted terrorist list.

CARROLL: Shakur's given name is Joanne Chesimard. Last year, she became the first woman added to the FBI's most-wanted terrorist list, a $2 million reward offered for her capture in connection with the fatal shooting of a New Jersey state trooper in 1973.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While living openly and freely in Cuba, she continues to maintain and promote her terrorist ideology.

CARROLL: Back in 1973, Chesimard was a member of the Black Panther Party. In 1987, Chesimard, while a fugitive in Cuba, talked about what happened the night she and two of her companions were stopped while driving on the New Jersey turnpike.

CHESIMARD: We ate, we got back into the car and shortly after we were stopped by the police.

CARROLL: She claims things turned violent almost without warning. CHESIMARD: He had a gun in my face and I put my hands out like this.

In a matter of seconds I was shot.

CARROLL: When the shooting ended, State Trooper Werner Forster was dead, Chesimard charged with his murder.

(on camera): What happened on the New Jersey Turnpike happened decades ago. But one chilling detail is clear to state troopers, according to the FBI, Forster was shot at point-blank range with his own gun.

(voice-over): A jury found Chesimard guilty of murder. She was supposed to serve a life sentence but, two years later, she was broken out of prison by three armed members of the Black Liberation Army, and after hiding out for years, finally surfaced in Cuba. She was granted asylum by Fidel Castro. Since then, state officials have fought for her extradition.

In 1998, New Jersey's Governor Christine Todd Whitman had this message for Chesimard.

CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: You are holding up the ability of the Cuban population to enjoy a better relationship with the United States by your presence in Cuba.

CARROLL: Now an historic shift in U.S./Cuba relations. Could it translate into an extradition agreement? One that you would that would finally force Chesimard to U.S. soil to be held accountable for her crime?

JOSE CARDENAS, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: What Cuba wants always is to get into a swap situation, and for U.S. officials, that's a very difficult road to go down.

CARROLL: Over four decades since the shooting, troopers here in New Jersey are still waiting for justice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: A terrific and fascinating story.

Jason Carroll is here with us.

What a tale. How likely is it she will face extradition?

CARROLL: That's the big question and it's increasingly frustrating for officials in New Jersey who want her brought back to U.S. soil. It's not looking likely. There were discussions about fugitives when the U.S. was meeting with Cuban officials but it is not on the table, at least not yet.

PEREIRA: There is no abstraction, either. This was discussed over these 13 month negotiations back and forth between the United States and Cuba.

CARROLL: Right. And we also have to remember that the Cuban government also accuses the U.S. government of harboring Cuban exiles who are accused of committing crimes as well. And as you heard in the piece, what you don't want to get into, at least some theorize, what you don't want to get into is this back and forth exchange for prisoners. I mean, this is the thing -- or exchange for fugitives. This is the thing you may not want to get into.

PEREIRA: As they look at the realities of this shifting policy and normalizing relations, these are things we're going to learn over time.

Jason, great story, thanks so much for bringing it to us.

CARROLL: You bet.

PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, President Obama's move to thaw relations with Cuba heating up talk of him actually visiting that island nation. The question is, should he?

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PEREIRA: Breaking news, a statement just out by the FBI. The FBI announcing that they have traced the cyber terror attack on Sony back to North Korea.

Joining us here in studio our justice correspondent, Evan Perez -- Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: John, the statement from the FBI reads as follows: "the FBI now has enough information to conclude that the North Korean government is responsible for these actions."

This is the hack against Sony Pictures. They say that they did some technical analysis of the malware that was used, the software that was used to infect the computer systems at Sony and they found that this was malware that the FBI has previously seen used by the North Korean government. They say that, for example, the FBI found encryption algorithms, code, data that was included in the malware code that was telltale signs that it came from North Korea. Things they've seen before. They say that they tracked all of this traffic that the -- that was used, again, to attack the Sony computer systems and it tracked right back to North Korea.

PEREIRA: Initially, when this first happened a lot of voices were saying that it was likely North Korea. It has taken time. We have heard that the White House and officials and the government was going to officially name. Talk about the significance of that official declaration, that official finger pointing.

PEREZ: It's very -- it's very unusual to do this so quickly. I mean, we're talking about a hack that happened only a few months ago. The last time we had an incident like this, which is earlier this year, where the U.S. government pointed the finger at the Chinese government, the Chinese PLA for infecting and stealing commercial secrets from U.S. companies. It took a couple of years. Lisa Monaco was still managing the National Security Division, pushing for the U.S. to say, China, we know what you are doing, and it took a couple years of arguing that position. She was at the White House by the time they finally were able to do that. So this is almost unprecedented, that they are able to say this publicly so soon.

PEREIRA: And it's an official accusation, which means North Korea will most likely have to have an official response. Which mean, here in the United States, there may be political pressure to take action in retaliation for North Korea being behind this attack.

Evan, walk us through again the how. How did they do this?

PEREZ: Well, we've talked to officials who have been following the investigation. That's been done by the FBI. It's involved the NSA. All of the intelligent agencies have been working on this. And we're told that the way they were able to do this was the hackers stole the credentials of a system administrator, somebody who had the keys to the kingdom at Sony Pictures, the entire computer system. And in that way they were able to get in there and lurk around really for months before they did anything, before anyone noticed.

PEREIRA: Without detection?

PEREZ: Without detection. And then the amount of data that they were able to steal from the computer system is really enormous, which is what they have been releasing out there in the pub electric.

PEREIRA: And so it's affecting people on a very personal level because medical records, Social Security numbers, compensation amounts, inter-e-mail communications have been leaked and there's a bigger question about this film, "The Interview".

PEREZ: That's the amazing part of this. You have North Korea attacking a private company and in that way you have, you know, the censorship of the American movie industry. We have a couple of movies now that are basically never going to be shown in movie theaters as a result of this action. And the U.S. government had nothing really to do with this and now the Obama administration is facing the prospect of having to respond to this when really they had nothing to do, you know, in protecting Sony and this wasn't really an attack on the U.S. government.

PEREIRA: Which gets to the next question. When this all began, this was an attack on Sony and the release of e-mails, people, places, things like that. Now it's evolved into an international incident.

PEREZ: It has.

PEREIRA: How concerned are they now about how they -- how delicately they have to handle the response?

PEREZ: It's a big concern because you have to make sure you calibrate your response. You don't want to end up -- you could overreact to this. This is still about a movie, a Seth Rogen movie at that. I don't want to make light of that but it's a serious matter. We're talking about censorship of the U.S. Movie industry. You don't want to overreact but at the same time, you do have to act. They are going to sanctions the North Korean military but won't do anything to escalate this to the point where we could end up in a the shooting war or something.

PEREIRA: Let's turn to Jim Sciutto.

Jim, how is the White House going to respond and what is the appropriate response?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's what they are trying to calibrate right now. Sanctions are a key step, as Evan made mentioned, because there's lots of ways that you can squeeze the North Korean government and military by further restricting their access to dollar-dominated trade. This is a tactic that is used to great effect, for instance, with regard to Iran regarding their nuclear program and Russia and the annexation of Crimea. And that's something that you can calibrate as well. I mean, the nuclear option -- excuse the expression -- is to cut off all access to dollar- denominated trade. That would take a lot of work. And there are a number of measures short of that. You saw something similar with the way the administration ratcheted up sanctions against Russia, starting with a few banks and going from there, starting with a few individuals and start going from there.

I'm told by U.S. officials -- and Evan makes a point that it is fast. It follows a remarkable and very quick work -- piece of detective work by the NSA, FBI, Department of Homeland Security. And as they were doing this, these hackers tried their very best to hide their tracks, by routing this activity through a number of countries. Now, as they did that, that raised a number of theories that investigators had to look through and, in effect, eliminate. There were ties -- for instance, North Korean Internet traffic goes through China. Intentional, to make it look like this may have come from China. So that's an option that investigators had to look at and say, wait a second, is China involved here or did the North Koreans route their traffic through there. There are ties to Iranian malware or software. Was Iran involved or was that just a tool used to cover the tracks of the North Korean hackers? The conclusion, the FBI saying today, despite all of those attempts to pull the wool over our eyes, in effect, it's the North Korean government. It's really a remarkable, comprehensive and really fast piece of cyber detective work but by the U.S. here.

PEREIRA: Again, the breaking news, was North Korea behind this cyber terror attack on Sony Pictures over the release of the film "The Interview"? This attack happened weeks ago.

And Brian Stelter is here with new information that Sony has been contacted it again by these cyber terrorists overnight.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Last night. And this is an e-mail was sent to a couple of executives to their corporate e-mail addresses. Those e-mail accounts were crippled a few weeks ago. They are now back up. I spoke to one of the recipients of the e-mail. He said, they did not want to open it. Obviously, someone did open it and I was able to obtain it. Sony is not commenting on it. And I got a text message back from the spokesman. They are not commenting on the FBI statement at the moment either. They'll let the FBI statement speak for itself in a moment. PEREIRA: Again, the FBI has issued a very firm response that they are pointing the fingers solely at North Korea for being the parties responsible for this cyber hack, the act of cyber terrorism, if you want to put it that way, against Sony Studios in Hollywood.

PEREIRA: Those terrorists contacted Sony again. There's all kinds of breaking news on this.

And the president holds a news conference at 1:30. He will, no doubt, face questions on this.

That is all for us @THISHOUR.

PEREIRA: "Legal View" with Deborah Feyerick starts right after this.

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