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New York City Mourns Two Slain NYPD Officers; Police Turn Their Backs To Mayor Bill de Blasio

Aired December 21, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JUAN RODRIGUEZ, PRESIDENT, 75TH PRECINCT COMMUNITY COUNCIL: Mr. Mayor, you need to have a sit down and you need to get everything corrected from the mayor's office down because this is wrong. We need you to work with the community and the police department.

We don't need you to just go to one side. The police department needs you as well. This is what happens. That's why that you got their back yesterday. Because of all of this craziness that is going on. What happens? What if that was your son sitting in that patrol car? If that was your son that got shot in the head? Then what? Why you don't come out and say that? OK? So, I'm going to let a member of the family speak for a brief minute for that. I have congressman (INAUDIBLE), I have (INAUDIBLE) and have it presented for the governor of Puerto Rico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before they speak, I'm going to ask because I know how you guys get. Please be gentle with her, all right? Please be gentle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN HOST: This is Martin Savidge at the CNN NEWSROOM in New York.

And what you are listening to now is a press conference that is being held by a number of community leaders as well as family members of slain officer Rafael Ramos. John Rodriguez, he is currently speaking right now, obviously, in Spanish, but he is a family friend. What he is saying that the reason they are all there is they want to express their solidarity directly behind law enforcement of the city of New York, And also to express how horrible and how absolutely unacceptable the crimes that occurred 24 hours ago now in New York are. And that this is a community united behind this police officers.

Also, there was a demand essentially made of Mayor de Blasio saying that he needs to sit down with his police force and work out whatever tensions exist because clearly, they are only making what is a horrible situation worse.

There was also a vigil that is anticipated coming from the community where the shootings took place in Brooklyn that will happen at about 6:00. There was an invitation that was given by the borough leaders down there to all the people of New York to come out tonight to show one, their solidarity and their sympathies for the family. You can imagine what a horrific time this has been for those families. We will listen once again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to thank all those who have shared their sympathy and support for our beloved family member, Rafael Ramos, who will always be loved and missed by many. I hope and pray that we can reflect on this tragic loss of lives that have occurred so that we can move forward and find an amicable path to a peaceful co- existence. We would like to extend our condolences to the Liu family also. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D), NEW YORK: Let me first just thank Juan and Tony for bringing the community together to stand today with the Ramos family. We're here today to get behind this family during this terrible tragedy, this time of need. And I'm here to make it clear to the Ramos family that their pain has been felt not just in this community but all the way down to the halls of the United States Congress.

This is a terrible unthinkable tragedy for the community, for the city, for the country, for the police department, but most importantly for the Ramos family. By all accounts, Officer Ramos was a good man, a good father, a good husband and a good police officer. He was there for the city of New York to protect and serve when we needed him. And that's why it's important for us to be there for the Ramos family during this incredible time of need.

And so, we just hopeful that this tragedy will not be in vein and that we will be able to heat the words of the Ramos family and bring the city together to heal. But before we do that, obviously, we have to be respectful of this family, respectful of this tragedy, respectful of the Liu family. Make sure that they are appropriately buried as the heroes that they are. And then to have to figure out a way for us to come together as the resilient city that we are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State senator?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much, Juan and (INAUDIBLE).

I just want to first offer my condolences to the Ramos family who also happens to be personal friends of my family. So my heart really goes out to you. But the message has to be clear here as Juan and (INAUDIBLE) have mentioned that what happened yesterday was a senseless and cowardly act by a person who traveled a long distance to do this. It's a random act and it must stop.

We want everyone in the city of New York to really understand that. And to the mayor and to Mr. Lynch, please show your leadership and set by example. That's the only thing I can ask.

But to both families, our hearts go out to you.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So our hearts go out to all of the police officers in the city of New York. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's safe to say that this morning we all woke up with heavy hearts. There is one thing we all know how to do as New Yorkers, and stand together in times of adversity. (INAUDIBLE) has lost one of their family members. (INAUDIBLE), the community where everyone stand together when they are having going through a tough time. I will continue sending out thoughts and prayers to the families of Officer Ramos and his young son. And while we are here pointing fingers, let's make sure that we stand together to make sure the family receives the support that they need. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. The governor? OK. Any questions?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The name and the relationship to the woman who spoke with the Ramos'?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's his aunt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And her name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lucy Ramos.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how to spell that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: L-U-C-Y.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said the blood is on the mayor's hands. Can you react to that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could imagine that Pat Lynch's saw when he spoke, he was very upset at the moment. I'm pretty sure that, you know, that once everything settle down a little bit, I'm pretty sure he will figure out his thoughts and I know that in my heart that that's not the way Pat Lynch speaks, you know? But, you know, I support Pat Lynch and support the police department.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to be reaching out to Pat Lynch and offering up. We are going to reach out to Pat Lynch and offer up an opportunity for him to actually come and express himself. I'm speaking with several African-American radio stations.

I mean, I think what needs to be said or some of the things that the police department is frustrated with, the fact that they had to deal with a lot of different avenues of having to do mandated ticketing and summonsing and stuff like that. I think that speaks to a lot of that frustration that there are things that are not being said. And I think you he will create that opportunity for us to understand why he is actually acting in the manner that he is because he is defending his members.

These officers are placed in a position in what have you to constantly come after us. You have to keep understanding. New York is a corporation. And every time we turned around, there is a dollar amount associated with everything with it goes down. That being said, apparently we are actually looked upon as those that are keeping the city running. So giving us some instances and putting the pressure on us and having mandates on police officers is not the way to go. And this creates the sense that makes people frustrated. And that's why you get the attitude that you get with police officers because they are pushed out there to come after us, to have the city make money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Sir, why do the opportunity to have to sit down with Pat Lynch who has made remarks and not someone from the NYPD branch --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because the opportunity is going to be extended to everybody. But Pat is a person that we feel we need to have a conversation with, you know, out of respect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel that Bill de Blasio has supported the NYPD? I know you said that you feel like he has not. Can you elaborate a little more about what you said earlier about Bill de Blasio showing his support for the NYPD?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that? I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you just elaborate a little more on what you said earlier about the mayor having to support the NYPD?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he needs to play the role of mayor. He needs to be on both sides. You can't just be one side. He needs to support the police officers as well and this is the reason why he got his back. He didn't show his support and he didn't support them. That's it. So you know, he needs to show a little more support to the officer in blue. They are the ones out here giving their life. They get paid for a job. A lot of officers go beyond their job to protect me and my family, my community, people, all of us here.

Congressman Nydia Velasquez.

REP. NYDIA VELAZQUEZ (D), NEW YORK: OK. Well, this is a very difficult and painful moment for not only the families, for the entire city of New York. My condolences to the family and who are heroes. We cannot condone this type of behavior. But we need to also understand that this guy who committed this murder was a troubled man who shot his girlfriend and we don't know what older mental problems he was facing.

But here we are celebrating holidays in New York City. This is not who we are. And we prayed for the city of New York for our police officers and for our communities. There have to be a lot of reflection and coming together as a community and as a city the way that we have done it before after 9/11.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me just say this. I want to go back to that question with regards to why we are not meeting with the NYPD. Because there are a lot of people in Brass (ph) right now that are not meeting with s. They seem to believe the image that there is only one representative of the African-American community and that is not the case. We have got a bunch load of ministers her who want to sit down and have the right conversations so that we can be those that are going to the community to write some of these wrong. You can't just meet with one person and assume that that person speaks for everybody in our city. There are a lot of leaders out here, no disrespect whatsoever. But meet with everybody. That's the answer to that question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to have a bishop from (INAUDIBLE) this morning. And I ask him to come out here so he can do a prayer for the families of those officers and for those officers as well. So we have bishop Bank (ph) in. Mr. Bank (ph) is going to do a prayer for the family. So if you guys want to come first forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us pray. We are praying today that dignity might prevail. Human dignity has been violated and the loss of lives. Human dignity has been violated in the loss of the lives of Officers Ramos and Liu. And we pray for them and for the -- all families affected that in this time, especially in this time, when many of us believe that God took the first step to send his son into the world as a baby that we who are so vulnerable might find peace.

We pray to you, heavenly father, that you might extend to us the hand of peace at this time, in a time when we are all under such pressure when we are feeling so terribly divided. When we are fractured among ourselves.

We pray, first of all, for the families of those who are victimized. For the Ramos family and Liu family, may they be given all the strength that they need from us in our communities and from you. We pray for our city that it might be a place that is safe and that peace. We pray for honest conversation, Father, that where there is bloodshed, where there is violence, you might extend that peace to us to those conversations. And we pray in the season that each of us might lead from our various vocations in the world with the sense that you are protecting us and guiding us. Protect those officers out on the streets.

Heavenly Father, protect them and allow them to serve and protect each of us in our communities as well. Guide us as we go forward. We pray it in your holy name, amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thank you everybody. Have a good night.

If you can please give the family, you have one of the family members speak, if you can please, just some, you know, give them their space now so they can be praying with the pastor and family. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. The only one that they have allowed to speak was the lady I came forward. Thank you.

SAVIDGE: And you have been listening to a news conference that was held on behalf of the family of slain officer Rafael Ramos. His partner Wenjian Liu was also assassinated according to authorities yesterday afternoon. Both New York City police officers.

And we heard from Lucy Ramos, She is the aunt of Rafael Ramos in which she made an appeal, actually asking for the entire city, perhaps even beyond to reflect at this time of when most are gathered for the holidays, about what has been lost and what has been the background of conversation, and in many respects, what has been some in plain emotions leading up to this. You also heard from community leaders.

We are going to talk about what is going on in New York? What is going on in the nation with our experts, our panel right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Two police officers ambushed inside their patrol car gunned down only because their wore police uniforms. The double murder is prompting the New York PD to now beef up protection for its officers work in the streets and a senior law enforcement official tell CNN that the NYPD is removing all unarmed volunteer officers from the street duty. Those officers help with things like traffic control. Also increased security is very likely around New York police department precincts.

There was a lot to talk about here. Joining me to do that, former FBI assistant director and CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, former New York PD executive Gill Alba and title applies the same to detective Harry Houck.

Thank you, gentlemen, to all, for joining us.

Tom, let me start with you going forward. What other changes do you expect? Will officers be warned? Don't sit in your patrol car, for instance, for long period of time? Keep the car moving? Maybe some might suggests bullet proof glass? What do you do next?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, none of those are feasible, Martin, in the first place. You know, they have put these officers in various high crime areas to sit in the car just so there is an extra car in the area and they're in a position to have a quick response in the event that something happens. So officers will still be sitting in police cars. You know, bullet proof glass? No way they are going to spend the money. They can't possibly do it, you know, having put bullet proof glass in FBI vehicles around the world. It's not feasible to do that on a large scale basis.

So some of those things are just not going to happen. The police are well aware of what's occurred. They have been well aware that these could always occur from the day that they started rookie training at the police academy to throughout their careers. You know about all the potential ways that you can be killed by ambush or die in other manners in the line of duty. So they don't need to be told anymore about how many ways they can be killed. They know it already. SAVIDGE: Well, let me turn to the two gentlemen here. And Gill and

Harry, I will let you both speak to this. But what are ways that you can quickly try to protect officers on the street from what we saw?

GILL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: As far as what happened there? Well, the information came out about this particular individual. So putting his picture out and putting all the information out about him, this is a good course to stop this kind of shooting. However, this guy planned this. He had, you know, premeditated. He was going kill himself. He didn't care. He was going to find anybody that he could shoot. So, if it wasn't police officers, he could shoot plain clothes officers or even detectives.

SAVIDGE: So what about going forward, say, God forbid, this becomes a copycat. Harry, what can you do?

HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Not that much more that you can do. I mean, the officers can wear their vests. They can be especially more vigilant. And you know, keeping the vehicles moving instead of having them sit around.

SAVIDGE: What about foot patrol? What do you do then?

HOUCK: Foot patrol, I'm very big on foot patrols because I think you get to know the community. But the NYPD did it several years ago but they did it wrong. They had to do a three hours with the reports after being out on the streets or five hours a day in the two blocks. I think they did it wrong.

I walk to beat and if that neighborhood, (INAUDIBLE) to New Jersey before I became the police officers in New York. And I knew everybody on a five square block area. Everybody knew me. They called 9/11 and asked for me, alright? An officer had been assassinated two years earlier on the same beat as mine, alright? So I think we definitely need police officers, maybe two man police officers out there walking around and getting to know the community.

SAVIDGE: This is community policing.

HOUCK: Right.

SAVIDGE: This is the old way of doing things.

HOUCK: The way we do it now, you know, community officer goes out and does speaking, no. The people have got to know the police officer. The only time they see a cop is when some bad comes in. They come in, make an arrest and they move out again. And that is the only time we got to talk to you.

SAVIDGE: As to numbers, we are talking about two cops, maybe together all the time, possibly three, I mean, you always want to have someone there to guard your back.

ALBA: Well, I spoke to the president of the detective and (INAUDIBLE) association today and he put out a memo saying what to do under these conditions. So, super alert is without a doubt. SAVIDGE: So that sort that gone out.

ALBA: This is going out to that, yes.

Make sure you wear your vests isn't the effective now. Police officers have their own unions. This is only differ for the types as wear your vest. When you go out, make sure especially the detectives in the precincts go out with at least three guys when you go out there. Be extremely aware of everybody else. Keep everybody intact.

And not only could they shoot uniformed officers, but you know, they know who detectives are and they could shoot them. So be extremely aware of what is going on.

SAVIDGE: There were a number of other things that were expressed at that press conference. We just saw not all of them from family members, but more are coming from community leaders. There are points of which I heard you both talking and in agreement. What are the things that struck you most? And Gill, I will start with you and Harry, go to you.

ALBA: Well, he was talking about the precious of internal police and how they have to give out summons to the community and all that. So they -- he feels that the pressure is much on the police officer that that's why they react in this manner that they are reacting given to some of the doubt and you know, giving it out to the community.

SAVIDGE: How does that fit in to the big picture of problem within the community and distrust in police?

HOUCK: Because police officers are force to do things basically. You know, it's the end of the month now. I have got have two arrests this month. What am I going to do? I have got to find an arrest out there. And somebody might be arrested or something. You know, of course, it is against the law. But something you might just let the guy go.

Now, when him and I first became police officers, there was a thing called the spirit of the law that we had learned about where you have a lot of discretion as a police officer. Remember, responding to the fights in the arks when I worked at Harlem. We didn't like anybody. We just broke it up and that was it. So, we had discretion to do what we wanted to do, you know, just as long as nobody was hurt and the law wasn't broken.

Now everything is basically, there's a list that you got a check list that these officers have got follow all the time and it takes the discretion away from them.

SAVIDGE: I want to bring in Tom Fuentes because he is still with us from Washington.

Tom, when we talk about these tactics that can be changed, we mentioned, of course, the bullet proof glass and other major safety things like that are not feasible. What can police departments do as far as conversations with their officers with the people on the street?

FUENTES: Well, I mean, obviously, community policing is one answer, you know, as the detectives mentioned. But, you know, don't forget that when they have these meetings and they go into the communities, go into the projects, attend school groups, PTA meetings, whatever, the guys like this shooter are not going be in those meetings. These hooligans scum bags that come out, you know, and crawl out from under the wood work at midnight are not going to be attending community policing meetings and making nice with patrol officers. That's the problem, too.

So, it is not just, you know, generally, you do want to win the support of the community to help you fight the common enemy who are out to kill members of the community just as much as they are out to kill police officers that have no regard for the law. And that is a plague in our cities that you see as an officer when you are out patrol. And it about 10, 11, midnight, you see the change of client tell that are around the sidewalks. And you know, here they come. Are they going to be out here on the street for the next four, five hours and they're dangerous?

SAVIDGE: Harry, you raised your hand. We have got to go to break real quick, but if you can summarize.

HOUCK: Right. I mean, I agree with everything you said. As far as going out and speaking to people and the (INAUDIBLE) is concern. You know, we might have had somebody who would have said listen, this guy is in the neighborhood. I know what he's going to do if he come up to the police officers who are sitting there. And so, if you get through to the right people, you know, the bad guys are not going be out there. But it's the good people who find out about the bad guys, they are going to come back and tell the cops.

SAVIDGE: In military terms they call it force multiply. The problem becomes (INAUDIBLE).

HOUCK: Exactly.

SAVIDGE: We will talk about all of this and a lot more coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: And we are standing by for a vigil as New York honors two police officers ambushed and killed yesterday. That vigil is being described as a call for unity. It was a call that went on to the entire city to attend. We will bring that to you live when it happens. It is expected that it will be too short of time from now.

As we said, it has been really a very painful, a very bitter 24 hours here in New York City. And people are still reeling from the news that two New York PD officers, Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu were gunned down yesterday while they were sitting in their patrol car in Brooklyn.

And we just heard from the family and friends of Office Ramos, earlier, police commissioner William Bratton laid flowers at the scene of the shooting. And he has said that there was no warning, no provocation for this attack. The officers were, in his words, assassinated.

The gunman has been identified as 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley Police say that he shot himself after they chased him into the subway station. His social media pages included threats to police and anger over the recent cases involving Michael Brown and Eric Garner.

At a news conference just last hour, the chief of the New York police department detectives said that the gunman have 19 prior arrests in both Georgia and Ohio. He also outlined what's been discovered so far about Brinsley and his social media accounts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BOYCE, CHIEF, NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT DETECTIVES: Most of his postings and rants are on the Instagram account. And what we're seeing from this right now is anger against the government. There is one where he burned the flag and made some statements. There are others with talks of anger at the police. He specifically mentions Michael Brown and Eric Garner and all the postings as well, of self- despair, of anger at himself or where his life is right now. Right now we have no gang affiliation at all attribute to this man. He has no tattoos to suggest anything of it. And he has religious statements that we found on Instagram at all, not whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Teams on late last night, hundreds of police gathered at the hospital where the fallen officers were taken. They stood in silent salute as the bodies of officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu were driven away.

Mayor Bill de Blasio's relationship with the city police has already frayed by comments that he made during the recent protests over the Michael Brown and Eric Garner cases. And then last night shooting has only added now to that tensions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK LYNCH, PRESIDENT, PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: There is blood on many hands tonight. Those that incited violence on the street under the guise of protest that try to tear down what New York City police officers did every day. We tried to warn it must not go on. It cannot be tolerated. That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: The man who ambushed two New York police officers left a very bloody trail stretching from Baltimore to Brooklyn. Police detectives were tracking Ismaaiyl Brinsley as he traveled to New York by following pings from his stolen cell phone.

Our national correspondent Nick Valencia joins me now. And Nick, you have learned who Brinsley stole that cell phone from

after what was a bloody confrontation earlier in Baltimore, right?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That confrontation, Martin, was with his ex-girlfriend at her apartment in Baltimore, Maryland, and that cell phone that he used to continue to post ominous messages about police on his way to Brooklyn, that's how police were able to track him down. Here's a time line of what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): The shooter's onslaught of terror began Saturday morning just before 6:00 a.m. in Baltimore, Maryland. Police say 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley shot and injured his ex-girlfriend in her apartment hours before he would kill two New York police officers.

Police say one of the last posts he put on social media was this. I always wanted to be known for doing something right, he said, but my past is stalking me, and my present is haunting me.

The post followed with another ominous warning. I'm putting wings on pigs today, he wrote. They take one of ours. Let's take two of theirs.

Police say the post were flagged by authorities in Baltimore, but a message to be on alert in New York was just too late. At 2:47 p.m. without warning or provocation, Brinsley walked up to the patrol car of New York police officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

WILLIAM BRATTON, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK POLICE: While sitting in a marked NYPD police car in full uniform, police were ambushed and murdered in front of 98 Tompkins avenue (INAUDIBLE) in Brooklyn, New York City.

VALENCIA: Liu and Ramos never had a chance to draw their weapons. They were rushed to the hospital where they were later pronounced dead. Immediately after the shooting nearby officers gave chase following Brinsley into a subway station.

BRATTON: While on the (INAUDIBLE) Brinsley, he shot himself in the head, took his own life.

VALENCIA: Police recovered a silver semiautomatic from the shooter which they say was used in the killings.

Saturday night at the hospital, more tense moments. New York mayor Bill de Blasio shows up to pay his respects. And while walking past a row of police, officers turned their backs demonstrating their anger towards a mayor that they say cheers part of the blame for officers' death.

LYNCH: There's blood on many hands tonight. That blood on their hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.

VALENCIA: For the family of slain office Rafael Ramos, the focus was not on blame, but on grief.

Late Saturday, Ramos's 13-year-old son wrote this on Facebook.

Today I had to say bye to my father. I will always love you and I will never forget you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: And on Sunday, New York police department commissioner Bill Bratton released a message to his police force. That message read in part, may God grant Officer Wenjian Liu and Officer Rafael Ramos rest and to all members of the service, be safe -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Nick Valencia, thank you very much for that.

Well, rejoining me now are former New York PD detectives Gill Alba and the same title given to the detective harry Houck.

Thank you both for coming back. Tom Fuentes is also there with us to talk about this.

Whenever I hear they talk about 13-year-old young man, Officer Ramos' son, it just really -- I strike of cord with all of us.

But, let's go back to the tracking of the suspect, Brinsley. Authorities in Baltimore knew he was on the move. Knew apparently by his postings, he had made threats and it appeared that he was heading to New York. And yet, it appears that the communication of that directly from the Baltimore PD didn't come until mid-day or just beyond. Was it that it wasn't taken seriously enough or did they do exactly the way it was expected to happen?

Harry, I will start with you. Gill, you can come in,

HOUCK: I think, you know, they had the information. But you know, if you don't know the exact location where this guys is at, I mean, you got police officers all over the city. They probably didn't have a photo of him or not. I'm not sure, did they have a photo?

ALBA: They know who he was.

HOUCK: A photo of this guy out there. And you know, there is not much officers can do, unless you know, its exact location, exactly what he is going to do and where he's going to do it at.

SAVIDGE: If you have the photo, let me ask you this. You are going to be looking and stopping people who may look like him. You are into a whole other problem there, aren't you for the sensitivities within the community?

ALBA: Somebody is going to shoot a police officer and you are in to another problem, I don't think so.

SAVIDGE: Well, what I am talking about is the sensitivity as the stop and frisk. ALBA: Right. You have to be careful on who you stop and frisk. I

mean, somebody you have a reason to stop this person or he looks like him or you can stop a white guy, you know. That's the opposite of that.

So definitely you can stop somebody like that. And that's a good thing to have a picture of him. And you know what? With the picture of him, it is like people are eating in a restaurant or to see him walking by, they will call the police and that's where this is going to happen.

All this information has to be taken care of because the Baltimore police sending a fax to the New York police, you know, there's -- it has to be a better communication.

SAVIDGE: You think there are better --

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: Let me just bring in Tom real quick.

Tom, we talk about this, you know, linkage between departments and we often think that it is a matter of -- they instantly push a button and every department, whether it is federal or local, is communicating. That's not the way it works?

FUENTES: Well, sometimes it is exactly how it works. But in this case, you know, my question whether it would be, alright, a message goes to the police beyond the lookout and let's say they forward a photograph of him. As you shown pictures of Brinsley, there are several different pictures. Some is wearing a red hoodie. Some is wearing a mask, there it is, the red hoodie. There are several different pictures that are all different.

So, if they put out this be on the lookout for a black male in his 20s, such as height, such as weight, carrying a gun, armed and dangerous, you know, heading to New York to kill an officer, probably Brooklyn, then what? Do you -- are they going to stop and frisk every black male that meets that description on the street? Do you know how many hundred encounters there would be?

And this is something that has been spoken about a lot during the recent protests. I got pulled over the police. They said I matched the description of some guy they were looking for some other crime. I didn't do it. They were harassing me.

I mean, I think there would be an outcry in New York prior to knowing he was going to kill these officers or having done it. But there would be an outcry if police were aggressively stopping people on the street because they met this general description or possibly inaccurate description that would have gone out.

SAVIDGE: Right. And tom brings up an excellent point. And actually something we are going to talk about next.

This brutal attack, is it a direct consequence of the protests that we have seen across the country, the sensitivities that were raised and how did we get to this point? Where are police? Everyone is considered. Many still consider, I do, heroes. But now, they are also considered by targets by some.

We will talk about that. And we're also waiting for the candle light vigil when we come back.

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SAVIDGE: The top police officials in New York City and the mayor all regard the killing of these two officers as an assassination. And it's not yet clear how this instant will impact the already tense relations between police and angry protesters.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

SAVIDGE: This was one week ago in New York marchers chanting we want dead cops now.

I'm joined by a private investigator and security specialist Rashid Abdul-Salaam.

And thank you very much for joining us. Let me ask you, how would you describe the divide right now between the people and the police?

RASHID ABDUL-SALAAM, INVESTIGATOR/SPECIAL ANALYST: Well, first, my condolences to the Ramos and Liu family under these horrible conditions.

The conditions are deplorable right now. One of the things that the community can do to heal this is to take a step forward and extend a hand to an officer today and to the days coming and offer them your support for doing a good job.

I was a police officer in a patrol car. This is the most vulnerable position you can be in doing your daily reports or trying to finish up a call that you have finish on. There is really no way of protecting yourself.

We need the community to be involved in assisting the police officers. No department is any stronger than its community involvement. And it's not all about protest. It is about support as well. Connect with the departments in that way.

Also, the police departments -- the police officers need the intelligence that the communities have. This evil person that committed this hideous act, someone knew him, someone was receiving text messages from him, not just what the Baltimore police department was able to send forward to the New York police departments but some family members, some friends, they could have reached out, they could have gave a heads up to different communities, to assist in trying to put this type of situations, meet these situations before they get to these tragic conclusions.

SAVIDGE: Well, let me ask you this and I do agree that everything you have said especially when it comes to community policing and the community needs to be actively involved with its police department. But there are those and many of whom will walk in the streets and were protesting who believe that by doing that they actually would be aiding and abetting the problem that they see which is overzealous law enforcement. So they are reaching out and trying to communicate it and this time may not be something they want to do.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Well, you know, it is kind of hypocritical because I guarantee you that none of those people want to live in a lawless society. I certainly don't. And no one that I know and love or is concern about, wants to live in a lawless environment of lawless community.

If they do wish for that type of community, there are places throughout the world that you can relocate and you can live lawlessly. This is a nation of laws. The people have, for the most part, bought into this. Anyone that owns a business, anyone that has property, anyone who is trying to better themselves and their family, they want rule of law. And you only have rule of law by having police officers and supporting those officers.

I'm in the private sector now. But I am still connected with the police agencies. I call upon police officers to help in my private businesses. I have assignments sometimes that I need officers. And I interface and I work with those officers, so I'm still connected.

SAVIDGE: Rashid Abdul-Salaam. Thanks very much for your insights tonight.

ABDUL-SALAAM: Thank you so much for helping.

SAVIDGE: The shooting has exposed a pretty sharp divide between New York's mayor and his police department. Some say Mayor Bill de Blasio has blood on his hands.

Ahead, how far apart is the mayor from his police force? And is there any hope of healing?

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SAVIDGE: Going to show you some live pictures as we wait now for a vigil, candlelight vigil in honor of the two New York police tee apartment officers killed yesterday. It is being described as a call for unity in the wake of this horrific strategy. Appears it's going to take place right at or near the intersection where the officers were slain yesterday. We'll bring that to you when it happens.

Relations between New York's rank and file police officers and Mayor Bill de Blasio have been strained since his election campaign which was critical of some police policies. That tension, though, has only grown since yesterday. Officers turned their backs on mayor as he walked through the hospital to take part in a news conference following yesterday's shooting.

And then the sentiment was echoed in a tweet by 12,000 member Sergeants Benevolent Association. I'll read that tweet in part. It says "the blood of two executed police officers is on the hands of Mayor de Blasio. May God bless their families and they may rest in peace."

And that's an unquote there.

Joining me again retired NYPD detectives, Gill and Harry Houck.

And you know, when you get a representative of the police department saying that the blood of these officer is on the hands of the mayor, it's an incredibly powerful statement, not to mention the imagery of the officers turning their back on the mayor.

Gill, what's going on here?

ALBA: You know, your viewers may not understand the whole process and the history behind this. First of all, that was Pat Lynch. He was the head of the union to the police officer's union. That those two officers, that his officers were murdered. OK? Assassinated.

SAVIDGE: It's his emotions.

ALBA: His emotions, he feels it. But it's a long history before that. He ran -- de Blasio ran on his -- against the police officers actually. That's how we started with. And then he came on with the fact that with the demonstrations, he said, he alleged, he made the alleged assumptions that when these officers were hurt by these people throwing garbage cans and punching the officers, one had a broken nose, and the other was hurt. De Blasio said it was alleged that although it was on tape. So right away, he was on the other side. He said his son, paraphrasing about the fact that be careful of the police instead of the other way around. Police are good people.

SAVIDGE: And I understand that.

But Harry, we're talking about, basically, a tweet that is saying that the mayor is as much responsible almost as the shooter here, that somehow he bears a responsibility for the death of these officer.

HOUCK: No, I don't think the mayor is as responsible as the shooter. But he did contribute to this occurring along with all this other rhetoric going out there by other alleged leaders, so it's a combination of many things to include the mayor where we led to this, where two police officers were assassinated on the street.

SAVIDGE: Well, you guys have both been around a long time in this city. Have you ever known of a relationship between a mayor and police force to be this bad?

ALBA: Not this bad. There were other instances with other mayors, but I don't believe it was ever this bad. Because it shows -- they feel the disdain that the mayor has for police officers and they all can feel that. And personally, I do, too. I feel the fact that, you know, he's not on the police side. So, both of the sides have to get together and get together and do something about this to fix the problem.

SAVIDGE: But can that really be done? Because you almost describe a divide now that is so intense it may not be one you can breach. HOUCK: It has to be done. He's going to be the mayor for several

more years. So it has to be done. And the first thing the mayor can do is reach out not only to the police department, also the people in the city of New York and apologize to the police officers for his behavior. Say he was wrong. Apologize for his behavior. That's where we'll start the healing between the mayor and the police officers.

SAVIDGE: You want this as a public apology?

HOUCK: I want it as a public apology. Because he has made -- he has made comments publicly against the police department, so I want a public apology from him. If he really cares about his relationship with the police department, he will do that and prove to me this man can be a leader.

SAVIDGE: Because clearly the people of New York see this as not only a troubling time with protests on the street, with deaths of officers, but now a fight, if you can describe it that way between the mayor and --

ALBA: It is. Basically is a fight at this point. So something has to be done. But this is 35,000 cops. They have a lot of power. Mayor has a lot of power. They can fight and make this really ugly. So they really have to get together at some point, a public apology by the mayor, may be tough for him but I would say that would help a lot.

SAVIDGE: All right. Thank you, both, very much. Harry Houck and Gill Alba.

We're going to take a break. Remember, we're waiting on that vigil. It will begin shortly.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: We are now waiting for a candlelight vigil in memory of the New York police officers. That's Wenjian Liu and Raphael Ramos.

Alexandra Field joins us now in Brooklyn. That's where yesterday's shootings happened.

And Alexandra, as you know, I was out there. We were both out there. Organizers have extended this invitation to all New Yorkers, correct? Everyone?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And what we're starting to see right now, as you can see, a thick crowd behind me. These are people who have been here, really, all day long, coming and lighting candles, leaving flowers, putting out messages of hope, and peace and remembrance for two officers who were gunned down here just a day ago. And marching what I'm beginning to see right now is actually dozens and dozens of NYPD officers just across the street here. They're beginning to file in. We've also got some community officers who are here. This is a vigil announced by the New York City borough presidents who

came together this afternoon and they really did extend this invitation to everyone. They want all New Yorkers to come together right now, not only to pay tribute to these officers, but to denounce a hideous attack that is really left this city shaken, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Alexandra Field at the side of where that vigil is about to get underway. Of course, when it does, we will bring in to you live.