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Vigil Under Way for Slain NYPD Cops; How Can New York Heal Divisions?

Aired December 21, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: That vigil is about to get under way. Of course, when it does, we will bring it to you live.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

SAVIDGE: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge in New York. Thank you very much for joining us. It is a pleasure to be with you, although these are very difficult days.

Right now in New York City, it's a somber scene in Brooklyn, as people are turning out to honor two police officers who were gunned down in the line of duty.

This is the Bedford-Stuy neighborhood and we are waiting for what's going to be a candlelight vigil for the officers, that's Officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu. And it is also where New York's mayor says those two officers were, as he describes it, assassinated.

Earlier today at that same spot, the New York City Police Commissioner William Bratton laid a wreath where police say a man approached an NYPD patrol car from the rear and fired into the window fatally wounding both officers.

The secretary of homeland security was there with the police commissioner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: This has got to be every cop's worst nightmare. We've all got to show support for the law enforcement, and this is a tough day for the NYPD. And that's why I'm here to show support for the men and women of the New York City police department today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: The short time ago, family members and friends of one of the slain policemen, Officer Rafael Ramos, appeared at the vigil site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope and pray that we can reflect on this tragic loss of lives that have occurred so we can move forward and find an amicable path to a peaceful co-existence. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here also to support the Ramos family and

the police department as well. We want to send a message out. We don't want the city of New York to think that anyone is against the police department. Everyone here with me tonight is for the NYPD, and that's a clear message that we're sending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: So, how does New York begin to try to heal from the growing divides and come together as a city?

Let's bring in our panel. New York City Councilman Jumaane Williams, former NYPD detective, Gil Alba, former NYPD detective, Harry Houck. And at tonight's vigil, special correspondent for "The Daily Beast", Michael Daly.

Jumaane Williams, let me start with you first.

It feels like New York is splintering, I suppose maybe that's one way of putting it. People are falling into different camps, different sides, even the leadership. How bad is it? What can you do?

JUMAANE WILLIAMS, NEW YORK CITY COUNCILMAN: I think for the moment, what we all should be doing is praying and supporting these families. There were two human beings that were assassinated, executed summarily. I mean, there's no one who can say anything about that except we need to support those families. This abhorrent act can't be supported, tolerated and encouraged by anyone.

SAVIDGE: It's been asked this be a moment of reflection, maybe a sort of break in whatever feelings people had to reflect on their positions and move forward.

WILLIAMS: I think that's a very good idea. It's hard to do that when people keep pushing into the conversation other things, accusations of people being anti-cop, even though it's a baseless accusation. But we keep hearing that. It's hard to do that.

Maybe right now, we can stand still for a second because real people are really dying. We're taking this one act and doing a lot of things with it. There was a young man who for all accounts had a troubled past. He actually shot a young black female before this, before coming up here. He was from out of town. There's a lot of things to look at as we're going through.

But what we can agree on is this act was superbly, outrageously -- I mean, I don't even know what the word is. No one can sit there and say, I think these officers who wear a uniform to protect us should have been executed, assassinated like that while on their lunch break. And that's what we need to focus on I believe.

SAVIDGE: Michael Daly, I want to bring you in, because you and I were together, actually, when you were informed of this horrible news. I just remember immediately the change in your demeanor.

Is this a moment where we, I say we, that a city, can reflect, a nation, too, and sort of, I don't know, hit a reset button, or somehow renew again a conversation rather than the shouting and the anger?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I think it's incumbent upon all of us to ensure that these officers did not die in vain. I think one of the terrible things is that before they were murdered, they were part of a police department that saved the city. It really transformed the city of New York into the safest, big city of America. I mean, they're talking about bringing the Barclays Center, the Democratic Convention, that Barclays Center wouldn't be there if the police hadn't make Brooklyn a safer place.

But they were not sitting in that car feeling like they were in a thankful city. They sat in that car feeling like they were in a torn city, and I think it's incumbent upon us now to make the surviving officers and their families feel that they are appreciated, they're respected, and they're honored.

And what I keep thinking about as I see the cops out here tonight, every one of them has a family sitting at home, knowing that it could have been any cop in the city who was shot and knowing that their loved ones are out there now in that uniform protecting us.

SAVIDGE: Uh-huh.

I want to play for all of us now actually the Commissioner William Bratton and the comments he made talking about the suspect's mindset. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of his postings and rants are on the Instagram account, and what we're seeing from this right now is anger against the government. There is one where he burned the flag and made some statements. There's others with talks of anger at the police. He specifically mentions Michael Brown and Eric Garner. And other postings as well of self-despair, of anger at himself or where his wife is right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: That actually was not Commissioner Bratton. It was the chief of detectives who held the press conference this afternoon, updating the investigation. But you heard the comments there on the mindset.

Michael Daly, again, to you. Do you think Ismaaiyl Brinsley was mentally unstable, somebody who snapped, or do you know think that somehow recent events pushed him into or over the edge?

DALY: I think he was already over the edge and once over there, he latched on to something. His Facebook posting before he started, talked about killing pigs, he said I wanted to do something right in my life, be known for doing something right but my past is haunting me.

I think this was a guy who reached the end and, all of a sudden, I can -- we're talking about him now. We wouldn't be talking about him now if he hadn't done that. So --

SAVIDGE: Uh-huh.

Gil, let me ask you this, do you fear as a former detective with NYPD and, Harry, you can chime in on this, too, that this is a trend? In other words, that other people may be inspired however horribly? Do you think this will hopefully with a one-time-only?

GIL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes, I think it's going to be a one- time-only. However, I think the police department just today received something from an 18-year-old in Tennessee saying he's going to come up and kill two cops in New York. So, they put his picture and everything else, but there's no crime there. So, they can't really do anything to him at this point.

But, you know, just by that alone. Let me tell you about the police department, when somebody gets killed like that. And I had people call me that were on 50 years ago, to the present time and all that, this is etched in the police officers', NYPD's mind for the rest of their lives. From the beginning, to the end, to the new police officers, these guys will be there for all the police departments. All these people that got killed all the way across the line and got assassinated the same way, the cops will be in their hearts and etched in their minds that this happened to them.

You know, they go through all these emotions. One is, of course, shock, when it first happens. And then, you know, anger which you can see Pat Lynch, you know, come out with that. So, there's a lot of emotions and hopefully it calms down.

SAVIDGE: And, Jumaane, would you agree that the emotions here need to ratchet back?

WILLIAMS: Well, one, the emotions are understandable, as was mentioned, one was a husband and a father. Other one was a newlywed. They're police officers.

SAVIDGE: The police officers.

WILLIAMS: So, I can understand every police officer having this etched in their mind. I think all of us have sympathy for that. All of us need to fully understand that. What I'm also hoping is that we can ratchet back some of the ways we are talking about things. There are real issues people are trying to discuss that have some legitimacy.

SAVIDGE: You mean the rhetoric or protests? What needs to be ratcheted back?

WILLIAMS: I keep hearing the mayor, anti-cop, and other people, anti- cop, and no one can point to anything that's ever been said that was anti-cop. There are issues that have been discussed.

And my hope is that everybody can come around the table and discuss those issues while agreeing upon them, so we can agree that what happened is beyond anything that anybody in their reasonable mind can say should happen. We should also agree that there are very real issues that we have to discuss and we have to do it in a way that makes sense and civil and helps us move forward.

SAVIDGE: And, Harry, I know you want to chime in, but we're going to take a break for a moment here.

Our panel is going to stay right here.

We're going to show you the live pictures now of the vigil that is taking place. You can see the crowds that have shown up now on the streets. And this is right in the area where those officers were killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Take to you live images coming from the candlelight vigil, public vigil held for the two slain New York Police Department officers. They were killed yesterday afternoon.

This is actually in Brooklyn and it's very near the intersection of Tompkins and Myrtle. That is right now today I went to that scene, it's just a place, it's not like a -- it's just so nondescript which makes it hard to believe what happened there, but a memorial has been springing up and clearly it's a gathering point for many in the community. So, we'll continue to watch this very poignant imagery here of people from all over New York, could be all over the area, that have come to participate, and it was an invitation that went out to the entire city.

There are other ways that people have been sort of participating. Cardinal Timothy Dolan led a chilling service at New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning before a packed crowd and addressed the senseless killings that hours before had taken the lives of two of New York City's finest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: I am with you. Commissioner Bratton and Chief O'Neill, would you tell your officers that God's people gathered at St. Patrick's Cathedral this morning, thundered with prayer, with and for them? That we love them very much, we mourn with them, we need them, we respect them and we're proud of them and we thank them. Would you tell them that, Commissioner Bratton and Chief O'Neill? Am I correct in thinking that's your sentiment, everybody?

(APPLAUSE)

We pray for our city, might unity and calm, reason and civility prevail as it has for us so often in the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Quite a remarkable moment.

Sitting next to each other during that mass, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, Police Commissioner William Bratton, and Police Chief James O'Neill.

So, let's talk about this. Joining me to do that are Michael Daly, Jumaane Williams, Gil Alba and Harry Houck.

And, Michael, I want to begin with you because you were at that service, right? You were there. You were in attendance. What was it like?

DALY: I was.

(INAUDIBLE)

SAVIDGE: I'm afraid it sounds like we're losing Michael's signal. So, we will go back to him as soon as we get that reestablished just to get his insights.

Jumaane, let me ask you this. We had already talked about the divide that was clearly evident between the mayor and the police department before the shootings. Now, you've had the shootings. Has it gotten even worse? Or is this an opportunity to call a truce?

WILLIAMS: I think this is an opportunity to say let's sit down and discuss. But I -- I keep hearing each statement of rhetoric going higher and higher as opposed to going lower and lower, and that's something that's also frustrating to me. To say, the mayor has blood on his hands, to say he's anti-cop, doesn't make any sense when you can't point to anything that says that.

And also, there was some discussions happening across the country. He's only the mayor of New York City. This conversation needs to happen. We need to take the opportunity to mourn. So, my hope is some of the protests might die down for a day or two so people can mourn.

SAVIDGE: You are right that it is a discussion that needs to be had across the nation. This is not just a New York event.

Harry, I'm going to let you talk in a minute. But we did get Michael back again.

Michael, you were talking about how you were at that service when Cardinal Dolan delivered that statement and prayer. What was it like?

DALY: It was -- it was remarkable. It was the best single homily I ever heard, and that applause I only wish those officers could have heard that applause before they were murdered, and I would hope that that applause will now continue as officers are still out there doing their job. It was -- I -- the cardinal's homily is available online. I urge everybody to read it because it's the best single discussion I've heard of the Christmas spirit in the midst of a dark tragedy that I ever, ever heard.

SAVIDGE: I won't say this is an only in New York thing because it definitely isn't when people gather for their faith, but here you have the mayor, you have the police chief and the police commissioner, Harry, they're all there, I guess in the same pew practically. HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right.

SAVIDGE: How impactful is that on those three men? The cardinal's words, I'm talking about.

HOUCK: Yes, the cardinal's words were amazing, and I think it made the police commissioner and Mr. De Blasio think twice. But as far as the people that support the police department, and that came out to the church and supported the people are -- I don't know what to say. It's really -- it's really hard for me because like you said, there's so much of a problem between the mayor and the police commissioner.

SAVIDGE: Yes.

HOUCK: So, it's really tough.

SAVIDGE: OK. Weigh in, Gil, because I can tell even by your body language there that you're --

ALBA: You know what, we keep going to the mayor and the police department and really he's saying approval about the mayor, these officers know the mayor does not like cops, OK? I don't really care what he says, but that's what they feel. However, they have to get together.

But our discussion, I think, is getting so far I way from the two officers who were New York City police officers. Not only changed their clothes and went and sat in the car. They were doing overtime from a different precinct.

SAVIDGE: So, let's bring it back to those two officers.

WILLIAMS: I think that's true. That's how they feel. Because of the rhetoric there's nothing to say the mayor doesn't support the police officers. It is about the two police officers.

SAVIDGE: Let me ask Gil to finish that thought because it's a very appropriate one.

Bring it back to these officers and the impact it has on the rest of the department because they're the ones that have to carry on. Of course, their families as well, but the department professionally must carry on.

ALBA: You know, it's not only the police department, it's the whole city. And it's Bedford-Stuyvesant. I mean, those people live there. They're their officers, really, are coming there to help them. I mean, Bedford-Stuyvesant's crime rate went down.

So, it's not only the New York City Police Department, which they're going to mourn. I mean, they're probably going to have 20,000 officers, people at the funeral there for the two officers. So, everybody is going to attend, but it's really across the board. You know, a lot of people are calling, from firemen, to everybody else, saying I'm sorry this particular thing happened. It's really across and really it's across America. SAVIDGE: OK. Let me stop you there only because we'll take a break

because we're going to have this discussion right after it. See you in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN CARR, MOTHER OF ERIC GARNER: Anyone who's standing with us, we want you to not use Eric Garner's name for violence, because we are not about that. These two police officers lost their life senselessly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: That was Eric Garner's mother making a plea for peace.

Garner, as you recall, died from a police chokehold in New York City. There's some debate on that. A grand jury refused to indict in the case, and since then, tensions have increased between New York police and Mayor Bill De Blasio.

But yesterday's shootings caused tensions to reach a boiling point. Officers turned their backs on the mayor as he walked through the hospital to take part in a news conference following yesterday's shootings. They say that De Blasio threw them under the bus after the Garner decision when he said he was, quote, "astonished by the decision," unquote. And that instructed his biracial son to, quote, "take special care", unquote, during any police encounters.

That left feelings especially raw after Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were then gunned down yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK LYNCH, PRES., PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: There's blood on many hands tonight. Those that incited violence on the street under the guise of protest that tried to tear down what New York City police officers did every day, we tried to warn it must not go on, it cannot be tolerated. That blood on their hands starts on the steps of city hall, in the office of the mayor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: With me now are New York City Council member Jumaane Williams, retired New York detectives Harry Houck and Gil Alba, and then, Michael Daly, special correspondent for "The Daily Beast."

Let's start with you, Jumaane. Just get your thoughts. How big is the divide between the mayor and the police force?

WILLIAMS: Apparently, because of perceptions that's been out there, it's big. But the question about --

SAVIDGE: The worst ever that you know? WILLIAMS: I don't -- the question is, tensions between who? When I

grew up in New York City under Rudy Giuliani, I think the tensions were much higher between segments of the population and the then- mayor, and it was all along kind of the same thing.

And it's a conversation, I think, that every time we try to have it, this is what happens. And I think in honor, these police officers who lost their lives, as we're going forward, the dangerous hyperbole and rhetoric is what we need to tamper down on so this conversation can proceed in a civil way. Because, obviously, it has to happen and it's bubbling and we have to be able to say we want a better educational system without saying we're anti-teacher.

SAVIDGE: Right.

WILLIAMS: We have to be able to say we want a better police system without being anti-police. I am not anti-police. I actually support my police departments. I supported an increase in the police force. So, none of us who have been talking about this on the council or the mayor are anti-police.

SAVIDGE: But this divide does play in unfortunately to the tragedy and how the city is going to recover from it. I know they're talking to Harry and Gil that you both believe this is about the worst relations have ever been between a police department in this city and a mayor.

HOUCK: I've never seen it so bad, in 26 years I was a police officer here in New York City at all. We had probably the greatest relationship with Mayor Giuliani when he brought in Mayor Bratton. 1982 when I first came on the job --

SAVIDGE: Mayor Giuliani came out to say there was blood on the mayor's hands was absolutely inappropriate for anyone to make that statement.

HOUCK: I agree with that fully. I think he was definitely the part of the rhetoric that led to this, but I don't think there's blood on the hands of the mayor at all.

SAVIDGE: So, Gil, you've never seen a divide this bad?

ALBA: I haven't. Could it be cured? Could they get together? Yes, I believe they could do that.

SAVIDGE: A public apology is what we've talked about, what you've said.

ALBA: That could be a possibility. Even Pat Lynch saying that about blood on his hands, maybe he has to come out and do a public apology on that. You can't blame him for saying that at the time this happened. You know, two of his men were killed.

But I think they have to get together. Police have to get together with community groups. When I'm talking about community groups, I'm talking about those community groups in those locations, in these precincts. Those are the people that have to get together. When outsiders come in and try to do that, that's what really hurts them more than having everybody tonight.

SAVIDGE: Councilman, do you see the mayor making a public apology to the police department?

WILLIAMS: I don't know what he's apologizing for. I think in the days go on, he has to do more and more to show support.

But when the support is shown, is it received as support is another question. I want -- I wish people would point to me what the mayor said that would have to be apology. If the word is allegedly it, I mean, that's a lot to hang your hat on. If it is to describe a discussion that most black parents have, or most people who have children who are black and brown have about police, again, that is a realistic conversation.

SAVIDGE: This was the conversation the mayor said he had with his son who's biracial.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that happens. My mother handed me a book called "The Little Black Book" to explain how to survive an interaction.

But again, the problem is not being anti-police. We are supportive of the police department, many of them doing a great job. But there are real issues happening across the nation. One of which I believe is that we are being unfair to police by sending them into these communities without any other agencies to assist them.

So, they are the only ones there that have to solve all the problems in these communities. We're setting ourselves up for problematic results.

SAVIDGE: We talked about this, too, that the lessons here or the discussion here needs to go far beyond just the boroughs of New York, right? I mean, we're talking about tensions that exist in this country have existed for a long time. I think recent events have brought them to the forefront but have existed for a long time.

It goes back to what we were discussing earlier, community policing and that really -- you two gentlemen who have been on the street, you believe it goes a long way to bringing back trust.

HOUCK: Right, because you really need to learn that a police officer isn't a robot that just comes in, makes an arrest and leaves. That he's a person.

And like I said, I've been through this myself. Sitting there and getting to know the people on your beat, talking to them. All right? Walking down the street. Closing the stores.

Maybe playing ball with the kids on the street so they get to know you. All right? Start calling you by your name. Not so much officer, but by your first name.

I think that's a great way for the city to start to heal. I think that's a good way for the communities to come together with the police. But it's a two-way street. It's not just a one-way street here.

This is just, you know, the police officers are the bad guys here. It's not. You know? It's that the people have got to also reach out to the police department, themselves. And that's, I think that's where we'll start to gain a lot more trust.

SAVIDGE: All right. You can -- we'll continue this. We're going to take a quick break. Come back in just a moment to take it further down the road.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Bring you up-to-date on other stories making news tonight. North Korea is making new threats. The country says it will go after the White House, Pentagon, the whole U.S. mainland, but says it was not involved in a hack on Sony.

Florida State University quarterback Jameis Winston has been cleared by a school panel. He was accused of violating the student conduct code over allegations that he sexually assaulted another student two years ago.

Muhammad Ali is in the hospital with pneumonia. The boxing legend spokesman says that Ali is expected to be out of the hospital soon.

We'll have more coverage of the execution-style killing of two New York police department officers ahead.

And also coming up tonight at 7:30, CNN's spotlight on Beverly Johnson, iconic former supermodel and most highly profiled accuser of comedian Bill Cosby.

And then tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, Christiane Amanpour's through biblical legends, beginning with the family Christmas tale, a remarkable journey exploring the mysteries of some of the oldest stories ever told.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Right now, a vigil for two slain police officers is under way in New York City. And we have been watching as officers on site there laying flowers, laying a wreath. They're part of a whole collection of people all day long drawn to the site.

Those two officers were ambushed yesterday sitting in their patrol car. They were shot in the head just because they wore a police uniform according to authorities. And we're learning more about the officers, Rafael Ramos and his family.

Joining me now is correspondent Alexandra Field. She's at that vigil in New York. And then, also, national reporter Nick Valencia. He joins me from Atlanta.

And, Nick, let's begin with you.

A Ramos family member spoke publicly a short time ago. What did she ask people to do in the wake of Officer Ramos' death?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL REPORTER: She spoke brief comments, very short comments, but also very emotional ones. It was the aunt of Rafael Ramos who was shot and killed yesterday as you mentioned while sitting in his patrol car. I want to play for you what she had, or what her message was to people who were listening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUCY RAMOS, AUNT OF SLAIN NYPD OFC RAFAEL RAMOS: I would like to thank all those who have shared their sympathy and support for our beloved family member, Rafael Ramos, who will always be loved and missed by many. I hope and pray that we can reflect on this tragic loss of lives that have occurred so that we can move forward and find an amicable path to a peaceful co-existence. We would like to extend our condolences to the Liu family also. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Ramos leaves behind so many loving family members, including two children, a son in college, and another 13-year-old who took to his social media page on Facebook to give a message to his father, very heartfelt message. He said, quote, "Today, I had to say bye to my father. He was there for me every day of my life. He was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. Everyone says they hate cops but they're the people you can call for help. I will always love you and will never forget you, RIP, dad."

Now, we heard from Ramos' family members. Who we haven't heard from Wenjian Liu's family members. We know little about him at this point other than he was a member of the force for about 7 1/2 years and he had recently been married two years ago. So many police officers, Martin, in New York and beyond are grieving the loss of their colleagues.

New York Police Department Commissioner Bill Bratton giving a message to his force asking them all to stay safe. And we also know that here are at least 15 other active threats against the police department that the NYPD is taking very seriously right now. So many of the officers in uniform concerned about their own safety tonight after the shooting of their colleagues -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Yes. All right, Nick. Thank you very much for that.

And, Alexandra, you were out at the hospital last night where the slain officers were taken when there was hopes of trying to care for them. And then you also witnessed the aftermath today on the streets there.

So, tell us more about these officers and what you've learned and the feeling in the department about them. ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, when we hear about the ugliness, the hideousness of the attack that happened yesterday, there have been a few images that I think will stay with all New Yorkers and with people really all across the country. You saw those crowds of police officers who lined the avenue yesterday when the ambulances pulled out with the fallen colleagues in them.

And we're seeing something like that today on the street corner, where two of their colleagues were executed, two of their comrades. We're now seeing just dozens of NYPD officers who have come here to this corner. They want to take a moment today to pay tribute and each of them has taken a flower, we're starting to see them sort of process behind me, leave a flower, take a moment to remember in this spot where two of their fellow officers were gunned down in a random, and a brutal attack. These two men were executed for no reason other than the job they had, the uniform that they wore.

This corner is a place that is supposed to be separate from the politics of what is happening in this city today. As we talk about what's going on between the union and mayor, this is a spot where people are really coming to only focus on the lives that were lost here, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Alexandra Field, thank you very much for that, coming to us live from the point of where the vigil is ongoing.

You know, when a senseless tragedy takes place, families are often left struggling financially, especially where their children's future is concerned. That's also where an organization known as the Silver Shield Foundation comes. It was co-founded by New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner to provide support to the families of fallen public servants, such as police officers and firefighters.

And joining me on the telephone is Casey Fuchs. Am I saying it right? Or Fuchs (ph)?

CASEY FUCHS, SILVER SHIELD FOUNDATION (via telephone) : Fuchs.

SAVIDGE: Thank you very much.

She's the chief operating officer of the foundation.

Casey, your group is planning now to cover the education of the children of Officer Rafael Ramos, do I have it right?

FUCHS: Correct. Correct. We set money aside for children of police officers and firefighters killed in line of duty. And we have -- since our inception which was 1982.

So, we've been doing it for 32 years and we specifically set it aside for college, it could be for tutoring, grad school, but it goes directly towards educational support.

SAVIDGE: Uh-huh. And how long does this go on for, for an individual, for a child? FUCHS: Some of the -- right, it can happen right now because he's --

one of his children is 18 and in college. And it happens immediately. They send us a bill and we send money to the school.

And then the other child, as soon as he starts school or if he needs it for tutoring, it's available for tutoring as well.

SAVIDGE: There's so many --

FUCHS: It's a difficult time. The tutoring is helpful to get them to where they want to be.

SAVIDGE: Absolutely. You're absolutely right. I think there's so many families that, of course, would love to do this but don't have the financial resolve. As far as George Steinbrenner, the foundation, how did it all come about?

FUCHS: Well, in 1982, my father, Jim Fuchs, and George Steinbrenner were at a funeral for a police officer and the flag was being handed to the family and Mr. Steinbrenner said to my father, what happens when it comes time for college for these children? We need to help these children.

And so, he said we need to start a foundation, and he raised money and he'd give it away. This is how it started in '82. And it's been the -- the Yankees helping us which are our biggest contributors, and then our donors who send in money and that's how it all started, and it's been -- we have over 800 children that we cover.

SAVIDGE: Wow. I was going to ask you that. How many families you help?

FUCHS: We cover the NYPD, the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey state troopers. All police in Connecticut, all police in Long Island.

SAVIDGE: How does the foundation raise money? You mentioned, of course, members of the team, but how else?

FUCHS: Well, we do -- it's all through pretty much personal contacts. As we all know, George Steinbrenner was very generous man and he, you know, we were pretty much under the radar, and we don't have big fund- raisers. It's all through personal contacts, and you can go on the Web site, but it's not -- we basically do -- we have very generous board members. We have a wonderful board and they are all very generous. The Yankees are very generous. Through time, it's just been through personal contacts and then --

SAVIDGE: Casey, can I just -- I'm sorry to interrupt you but there's a poignant moment going on in the vigil that we're monitoring and I want to bring that in as well. So, please bear with us.

(SINGING)

SAVIDGE: Unfortunately, you can hear that there are some audio issues, but there is a spontaneous hymn that has broken out there, and, again, you're watching a candlelight public vigil for the slain New York officers murdered yesterday afternoon. A rather nondescript street in Brooklyn that now has become a gathering point for so many people all across New York, actually I suppose you could say in spirit all across the country as they mourn the tragic loss of these officers who were out there protecting their community and wearing the uniform of blue.

Casey, I'm apologizing for cutting you off, but I think we'll listen a bit more to this. Thank you very much for your help with your organization.

(SINGING)

SAVIDGE: You can see that this is a gathering that is made up of all kinds of New Yorkers and all kinds of people on what is actually the middle of the street right there.

We'll take a break. We'll come back with more after this.

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SAVIDGE: Take you back again to the vigil that is taking place at the site where those two New York city police officers were slain yesterday afternoon. That is an intersection really, and if you expect that there is some big monument there or something, there isn't. There's a small memorial beginning to grow. That's the middle of the street you're looking at there in that community. And you can see that there's a community shop there. It's hard to believe this nondescript place has now become a place that's remembered for such a horrific event that really triggered now a national debate. There was one, but it's intensified.

Even before the two police officers were shot dead in Brooklyn, New York's Mayor Bill de Blasio was catching heat accused by some of adding fuel to some anti-police sentiment in the city. In the middle of this tragedy, the mayor has a serious image problem.

And so, I want to talk about this with our senior political analyst, David Gergen, former adviser to four presidents, and also, Martha Pease, she's a PR specialist and CEO of DemandWerks.com.

And, David, let me go to you first. This divide, this separation, seems pretty serious at a time when this nation would like -- or this city would like to see some unity.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It is, absolutely. And it's a major challenge to the leadership of the mayor, Mayor De Blasio. Here we sit in a city, this is the biggest in the country by some distance. It's the epicenter in America today, this terrible tension we have on racial lines about the police and African- Americans. And we have a city that's bitterly divided as your other guests have said earlier.

And I think it's -- what we really need is a mayor who steps up to the leadership challenge in the same way Rudy Giuliani stepped up on 9/11 and gave voice to the whole country and helped to unite us, we need this mayor who's distrusted by the police to build a bridge between the cops and the people who are protesting. And to help us find a way that we can settle this peacefully, not in the streets, not with shootings.

SAVIDGE: Martha, you're the expert sort of on this. What advice would you give the mayor? How should his administration, the mayor, himself, handle this right now in the upcoming days?

MARTHA PEASE, CEO, DEMANDWERKS.COM: Well, I think the mayor first of all needs to be quiet and keep a very low profile through the funerals for these fallen officers.

SAVIDGE: Does he attend?

PEASE: Yes, I think he needs to attend. I think after that, he needs to come forward and have the same meeting with police that he had with protesters last week and begin to reach out into the institutions inside of the government in New York to build the same bridges and understand what their issues are and be clear that he's having those conversations.

And I think if he can find a way to navigate both sides of the fence, so to speak, if he can start to find a way to navigate and be seen as bringing together the disparate interests and the disparate agendas, if he can be seen to navigate through that, he'll emerge on the other side of it with a stronger position as a leader.

SAVIDGE: David, you, you know, sort of outlined what needed to be done and Martha has sort of talked if she should have his ear, what would you say to the mayor if you had his ear?

GERGEN: Well, first of all, Martha had good advice. I do think -- you asked an important question: Should he attend the funerals? The head of the police union, Patrick Lynch, basically said keep him out of our funerals.

SAVIDGE: It seems an obvious thing -- there are some feelings he should not.

GERGEN: They need to negotiate that quietly behind the scenes that he is going to appear. It's important he not be seen as shunning this and that the police not -- what he could do in the meantime is call Patrick Lynch and say, look, I met with last week, with the people who are protesting, the leaders of the protest movement. When the funerals are done, and dust clears a bit, let's sit down, you bring a group of people, let's have a serious conversation for an hour, hour and a half, let me hear how we can begin to bridge this.

I also think this -- he has a huge asset in Police Commissioner Bratton. If he didn't have Bratton now, he'd be in deep trouble.

SAVIDGE: Why do you say that?

GERGEN: Because Bratton is regarded as the best police chief in the country and he's the man who came in with Rudy Giuliani when murder rates in New York were extraordinarily high. There were over 2,200 murders in 1991, and today, now we're down to some 300 murders a year. That's a steep decline. They got that started under Bill Bratton. And he's been police chief of Boston, police chief for New York twice, police chief of Los Angeles, and done a great job in all of them.

He's respected by cops. He's a cops' chief. He's had a hard time, frankly, because it's sensitive with De Blasio, but I'd wrap myself in Bill Bratton and have him everywhere.

SAVIDGE: There have been some who suggested, Martha, and these are former New York police members, that the mayor should make a public apology to the police department. What do you think?

PEASE: Well, I think that's an interesting line --

SAVIDGE: I thought it was interesting too.

PEASE: Yes.

SAVIDGE: But I don't know if it's actually going do be done.

PEASE: I'm not sure it's going to be done. I think there are actions he can take that prove he can reach out to the police and he can embrace them and their agenda and his relationship with them.

I mean, David makes an excellent point that he should wrap himself around Commissioner Bratton. I think if he can be seen as taking effective and progressive steps to start a different kind of dialogue with the police, that's not based on stereotypes. You know, he came -- he came into office basically opposing most of the status quo in New York.

SAVIDGE: True.

PEASE: Aggressively. He built some of that popularity among the voting population based on stereotypes that are actually un -- difficult stereotypes --

SAVIDGE: They may not be working too well now.

PEASE: Exactly, they may not be working well now. I think what was a strength in the election is now potentially a weakness for him in governing, a weakness for his brand. The expectation is that he will be against the status quo, that the power of the police is something that has to be controlled and needs to be checked and constantly surveyed. And I think that he's got to move forward in a way in his dialogue particularly with the police --

SAVIDGE: OK. I'm only going to interrupt you because we have to make a break. David, hold that thought. Martha, please. You're both going to be here.

I'm Martin Savidge in New York. We'll continue in just a minute.

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