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NYPD Deaths; Shooting Timeline; NYPD Shooting

Aired December 22, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're going to take it now. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here on this Monday.

You were just hearing from the mayor of New York, Mayor de Blasio, really referencing the atrocities that happened here over the weekend. You know, some say like never before New York's finest is also though at odds with New York's leader and at the absolute worse time. Two of their own, Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were, quote, "assassinated." Video of Mayor de Blasio visiting the slain officers' home has just come into us here at CNN.

Now, all officers are on alert for further attacks. At least 15 new threats against NYPD known at this time.

And nationwide protests continue against police violence. A demonstration outside of the Department of Justice in Washington is mere hours away.

There is no question a disturbed cop hating gunman named Ismaaiyl Brinsley killed these two men. He is seen here from FaceBook. Brinsley made a newlywed bride a widow. Officer Wenjian Liu just married a few months ago. Brinsley also took a father away from his two sons. You will hear from Rafael Ramos' youngest son shortly. And much, much more. We're going to dedicate time to both of these officers, their lives, their legacies.

But New York Police union leaders also blame the deaths on Mayor de Blasio. They say he turned his back on his force, which was under fire for the chokehold killing of Eric Garner. So some officers in a show of rejection and disrespect literally turned around, turned their backs on the mayor at the hospital over the weekend where crews transported the officers' bodies. You see it here. This is video from over the weekend.

Minutes ago, as we were just taking live, the mayor himself had this to stay, speaking at a charity event.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK: They are suffering. They're suffering an unspeakable pain right now. It's impressive when somehow people can put on a brave face, but in the conversations we had, you can tell there's a lot of fear on what the future will hold and we let them know that we would be there for them. That people such as the good people in this room would be there for them. That we would never forget them. We would certainly never forget the sacrifice of Officer Ramos and Officer Liu, who stood for all that is good in this society. And we have to understand the attack on them was an attack on all of us. It was an attack on our democracy. It was an attack on our values. It was an attack on every single New Yorker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me take you now to begin our coverage with Sara Ganim. She is live in Brooklyn, where those two officers were shot and killed.

We just heard, Sara, as you just heard, from the mayor, Bill de Blasio. And also the governor of New York has weighed in. Set the scene for me. Tell me what people are doing behind you and also what have these leaders said?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, as you've mentioned here, Brooke, I am at this memorial. It's been incredibly busy all day. You know it's really not very far from here. You're well versed in this. You know that people in New York have been protesting in the last couple of weeks over the death of Eric Garner, over the NYPD's handling of cases. That is so far from the scene here today. I have seen people come up, members of the community, shake hands with officers, give hugs to NYPD who are coming here in groups to pay their respects. They're lighting candles together. I saw one woman - and this is just so representative of the scene here -- she had made a sign, a note for one of the sons of the slain officers and she was having trouble posting it to the brick wall with duct tape. And an officer went over with her and helped her rip off the duct tape and post those signs, those messages to that child.

And as you mentioned, we have - we have seen over the weekend so much tension, so much back and forth between police and the mayor's office. The governor did weigh in today, Andrew Cuomo. He asked for a cooling off period. He said now is not the time for that conversation. I want to read to you a little bit of what he said this morning. He said, quote, "sometimes with high emotion you stop hearing and processing and I think that's where we are now. It's not productive. It's potentially destructive."

And that's something that we've been hearing from people here as we've been at this memorial this afternoon. Women have come up to us and said, look, you know, we don't agree that the mayor should have been criticized so strongly and so immediately after these murders. They believe that that kind of criticism really can only lead to more violence and not anything productive.

BALDWIN: We will definitely talk much more about the strained relations clearly between city hall, the mayor, police. Again, want to remind all our viewers, we should be hearing from Commissioner Bratton and from Mayor de Blasio in just about an hour and a half. So stay with us as we'll take that live.

In the meantime, we will dedicate much more coverage, of course, to the two lives lost over the weekend. Some of New York's finest police officers. But I can tell you, as far as what happened or how this happened, Ismaaiyl Brinsley's deadly shooting spree did actually - it actually didn't start in New York City. Investigators say his first target was his ex-girlfriend, who lives in Baltimore, Maryland. He shot and wounded her first before moving to Brooklyn here in New York. And CNN's Nick Valencia explains exactly the timeline of the atrocities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The shooter's onslaught of terror began Saturday morning just before 6:00 a.m. in Baltimore, Maryland. Police say 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley shot and seriously injured his ex-girlfriend in her apartment hours before he would kill two New York police officers. Police say one of the last posts he put on social media was this. "I always wanted to be known for doing something right," he said, "but my past is stalking me and my present is haunting me."

The post followed with another ominous warning, "I'm putting wings on pigs today," he wrote. "They take one of ours. Let's take two of theirs." Police say the posts were flagged by authorities in Baltimore, but a message to be on alert in New York was just too late. At 2:47 p.m., without warning or provocation, Brinsley walked up to the patrol car of New York Police Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM J. BRATTON, NEW YORK POLICE: While sitting in a marked NYPD police car, in full uniform, both were ambushed and murdered in front of 98 Tompkins (ph) Avenue, in the Bedford- Stuyvesant area of Brooklyn, New York City.

VALENCIA: Liu and Ramos never had a chance to draw their weapons. They were rushed to the hospital where they were later pronounced dead. Immediately after the shooting, nearby officers gave chase, following Brinsley into a subway station.

BRATTON: While on the platform, Brinsley shot himself in the head, and took his own life.

VALENCIA: Police recovered a silver, semi-automatic gun from the shooter, which they say was used in the killings. Saturday night at the hospital, more tense moments. New York Mayor Bill de Blasio shows up to pay his respects. And while walking past a row of police, officers turn their backs, demonstrating their anger towards a mayor who they say shares part of the blame for the officers' deaths.

PATRICK LYNCH, PRESIDENT, PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: There's blood on many hands tonight. That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.

VALENCIA: For the family of slain officer Rafael Ramos, the focus was not on blame but on grief. Late Saturday, Ramos' 13-year-old son wrote this on FaceBook. "Today I had to say bye to my father. I will always love you and I will never forget you." VALENCIA (on camera): On Sunday, New York Police Department Commissioner Bill Bratton released a message to his police force. That message read in part, "may God grant Officer Winjian Liu and Officer Rafael Ramos rest. And to all the members of the service, be safe."

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Nick, thank you.

The deaths of those two officers here in New York have absolutely rocked people who live in this area and certainly some across the nation, including the EMT who was first on the scene to see Officer Wenjian Liu and Officer Rafael Ramos clinging to life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANLANIA ALEXANDER, TREATED NYPD OFFICERS: He has a family, so -- and you don't know if you're going to go and - you don't know if you're going to make it to your family's job (ph). You put your life on the line every day for people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: While these two men's murders are a national tragedy, they are not part of the nationwide protests against police abuse in minority communities. At least that is the message from retired NBA star Kareem Abdul Jabbar, the NBA great and son and grandson of police officers. Abdul Jabbar writes on "Time" magazine's website, quote, "Ismaaiyl Brinsley, the suicidal killer, wasn't an impassioned activist expressing political frustration. He was a troubled man who had shot his girlfriend earlier that day. He even Instragramed warnings of his violent intentions. None of this is the behavior of a sane man or rationale activist. The protests are no more to blame for his actions than 'The Catcher and the Rye' was for the murder of John Lennon or the movie 'Taxi Driver' for the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan."

I want to talk much more about this with L.Z. Granderson, CNN commentator.

L.Z., glad to have you on today. I'm wondering if, you know, with regard to what Mr. Abdul Jabbar said, do you agree, two totally separate issues here?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I - you know, I tweeted as much, you know, last night as more details started to show. I mean the parents of the murderer talked about him possibly having undiagnosed mental illness and emotional issues and about his troubled childhood and the fact that he's had 18 to 20 arrests over his lifetime, very well could be a byproduct of the fact that he was mentally ill, in addition to being a criminal. And so he's absolutely correct in that it would be a mistake to align what this one individual did with the protests and why they are peacefully protesting. BALDWIN: So many of the protests that we've seen, not just here in New

York but elsewhere, for the most part, you know, have been peaceful. But I do have to show our viewers this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now. What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now. What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now. What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now. What do we want? Dead Cops. When do we want them? Now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, some of the chanting. I know it's kind of hard to hear. But basically these protesters in this one particular location are calling on, you know, killing cops. And when I was out working and covering some of the marches here in New York a couple of weeks ago, you know, for the most part, again, peaceful. But toward the end of the night, you know, I definitely saw some of these protesters getting in the faces of some of these, you know, officers saying, f the police. And it's this notion of, you know, racism verse - I think it was Kareem saying policism.

GRANDERSON: Well, this is not a new conversation, unfortunately. Now, I, in no way, am saying that I support those chants that you heard. I have family members who are police officers. I have friends who are police officer -- a police officer I was just talking with earlier this morning about what was going on in New York. So I do not support this at all.

But with that being said, this has been a conversation we've been having in this country for decades. In fact, New York City specifically had protesters back in the early '90s that stemmed from violence that happened with police officers. As a matter of fact, at that time it was the police officers, thousands of police officers, who marched, blocked traffic in Brooklyn Bridge, marched to city hall because they were against what Mayor Dinkins was trying to do in terms of addressing the issue of not having trust with the police officers. So this is an issue that this country has faced and New York City has faced in particular time and time again. And until we are willing to face the tough, tough questions head-on and stop deflecting and politicizing things, we're not going to get past this.

BALDWIN: What are some of those tough questions? I mean where does this need to go? As you pointed out, this is not a new narrative. You know, we've seen this play out before. But what's the next step in this dialogue?

GRANDERSON: Well, I think the very first thing we have to do is get both sides of the issue to admit that no side is perfect. In other words, there are definitely things that the minority community can do to help ease the tension but there are also things that police officers and the police department can do to help ease the tension.

When I look back at the situation in Cleveland, and we're talking about a 12-year-old boy that was shot and killed for having a toy gun and how the police --

BALDWIN: Tamir Rice. Right.

GRANDERSON: Exactly. And how the police rallied around the guy saying it was a justified shooting, even though the person that they hired was deemed unfit to serve and was too immature to have a gun by his previous employer, they still employed that guy and then rallied around him. Why not call out the mistakes that were made? That would ease so much tension as opposed to filling the needs to rally around people who have done harm. The same thing many number of police departments around the country. And so just as it's important that the minority community talk about the violence within its own community and I definitely think that we need to continue doing that, there also needs to be a level of self-reflection within police departments around this country and say, you know what, every single police officer is not a good cop and every single police officer is not a person who should actually be on these streets.

BALDWIN: But two separate incidents and for now with regard to what happened over the weekend, it is absolutely a day of mourning. As the mayor said, it's an attack on every single New Yorker.

L.Z. Granderson, thank you so much for coming on.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, I want to focus on the two lives lost of this weekend's tragic shooting. Two officers dreamed of becoming cops. Their tragic stories, who they're leaving behind, up next.

And later, the heart-pounding moments after the shootings when first responders tried desperately to save these two men. Hear their story. We're back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: New York's police commissioner says Officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos both dreamed of being on the force. Officer Ramos, who was 40 years of age, joined the New York Police Department just three years ago. Before that he'd spent three years as a school safety officer and working 14 years delivering packages. A friend told "The New York Times" that Ramos didn't want to work overtime hours just so he could get home and spend time with his sons. Ramos leaves behind his wife, his son, Justin, who is in college, and 13-year-old Jayden, his other son, who posted this to his FaceBook page speaking of his father. "He was the best father I could ask for. I will always love you. And I will never forget you. Rest in peace, dad."

Members of the Ramos family and the community spoke about the tragedy last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY HERBERT, BROOKLYN COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: This is a tragic time in our community, in our state, quite frankly, to turn around and have to deal with this kind of senseless violence. Not only are we losing people in the community, but now we're losing police officers to the same stupid rhetoric that deals with guns. We stand here unified with this family, with the Ramos family, with regards to the issue that took place yesterday. Our hearts are actually painstakingly crushed right now.

Now is the time for all of us to get to the table. Our elected officials, our community folks, and not just one particular person that's a community rep, everybody needs to be at the table so that we can generate the necessary information to move this community forward.

JUAN RODRIGUEZ, PRESIDENT, 75TH PRECINCT COMMUNITY COUNCIL: Mr. Mayor, you need to have a - you need to have a sit-down and you need to get everything corrected from the mayor's office down because this is wrong. We need - we need you to work with the community and the police department. We don't need you to just go to one side. The police department needs you as well. What about if that was your son sitting in that patrol car? If that was your son that got shot in the head? Then what? Why you don't come out and say that?

HERBERT: You've got to keep understanding, New York is a corporation. And every time we turn around, there's a dollar amount associated with everything with -- that goes down. That being said, apparently we are actually looked upon as those that are keeping this city running. So giving us summonses and putting the pressure on us and having mandates on police officers is not the way to go. And this creates the sentiment and makes people frustrated. And that's why you get the attitude that you get with police officers because they're pushed out there to come after us, to help this city make money.

We stand behind our police department. We support those members of our community that put on the uniform to go out here and do the job that needs to be done to keep us safe. I don't know who in the heck got the impression that this community is not behind their police department and then they think it enough that they can come here and take them out. That's not going to happen. We're not going to allow that to continue to happen. It's unacceptable.

LUCY RAMOS, AUNT OF RAFAEL RAMOS: I would like to thank all those who have shared their sympathy and support for our beloved family member, Rafael Ramos, who will always be loved and missed by many. I hope and pray that we can reflect on this tragic loss of lives that have occurred so that we can move forward and find an amicable path to a peaceful co-existence. We would like to extend our condolences to the Liu family also. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Officer Liu's family came to America from the Wangdong (ph) province of China. The 32 year old had served seven years with NYPD. Before that, he'd served as an auxiliary officer. And a friend tells "The New York Times," when asked why he wanted to become an officer, he replied, quote, "I know that being a cop is dangerous, but I must do it. If I don't do it and you don't do it, then who is going to do it?" Liu had just started a new life with his bride. Sunday would have been their three-month wedding anniversary. Let me bring in Reverend Calvin Butts, community leader and pastor of

the Abyssinian Baptist Church, and Chris Smith, contributing editor for "New York Magazine."

Gentlemen, nice to see you. Reverend, nice to see you back here, but I hate the circumstances..

REV. CALVIN BUTTS, PASTOR, ABYSSINIAN BAPTIST CHURCH: Nice to see you.

BALDWIN: As we watch all of this unfold - and again, just to remind the viewer, we'll be hearing from both the police commissioner, Bratton, and also from the mayor in just about an hour from now. It -- when I got the news, I was out of town this weekend, it was like a punch in the gut, just as someone who just recently moved to New York. I mean you all are life-long New Yorker. To hear that these two partners had been assassinated over the weekend, doing their jobs, how did you find out? How did you take the news? To either of you.

BUTTS: The news came via media. And I was shocked. I was in great dismay because of the tensions that were already in the city.

BALDWIN: Right.

BUTTS: And I was saddened because I have several members of my family who are in law enforcement and I know the risk that they take. And I have many members of the church who are in law enforcement and I have done funerals for police officers. A terribly dangerous job. Brave men and women. And this breaks your heart, especially around this time, Christmas, and the holidays and families.

CHRIS SMITH, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Yes, it's the kind of story -- you just showed the families of the officers, talked a little about their biographies. It's the kind of story that you can't think gets worse, but the more you learn of their heroism, their day in and day out commitment to protecting this city, it is just even more painful.

And it's interesting, on a human level, but in a political level. I mean there's a perception in a lot of places, even after a couple of decades now where New York City has been by in large the safest big city in America.

BALDWIN: It's changed.

SMITH: Yes. That we're at each other's throats, you know? That we're on top of each other. It's really interesting to point out that Officer Liu of Chinese dissent, Officer Ramos of Puerto Rican dissent, the face of the department, the membership of the department, has changed a great deal as the city has changed in the past decade or so. And that's part of what's going on here. The friction between the mayor and the police department is another thing.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about that. I think if you're not from within, living, eating, breathing what's happening in this area, you're not as familiar, right? And I think just most recently, in the wake of what we saw with the non-indictment with Eric Garner, you saw the mayor, who has a child, a son, Dante, a biracial son, essentially saying, you know, in a news conference, very publicly saying, you know, I had a conversation with him just on how to handle himself if and when he has a run-in with police, inferring sort of this notion of fear, which, of course, the largest police organization here, the union in New York said, well, that's anti-cop, right? That's just stoking the flames. So then, in the wake of these shootings over the weekend, setting this up for everyone, you have two people from that union saying that the blood is on the hands of city hall and of the mayor. And so that's just like my sliver of explanation. But how do you - they need - it's like this message of unity that they're lacking.

BUTTS: The mayor needs to take Lynch into a back room someplace and they need to have a conversation. Lynch's rhetoric is tied to the fact that he's a union leader.

BALDWIN: This is the president of the biggest union here in the city.

BUTTS: Biggest -- he's a union leader and so he's going to stoke the flames and try to build up a lot of ire against the mayor because he's got to negotiate with the mayor at some point down the line. So I think it's rhetoric that needs to be met head-on, but not in front of the cameras. He needs to take Lynch in the back room and say, listen, you're about to make this city explode. And the fact that he hasn't done it and the thing that bothers me about the mayor is, who is he listening to?

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

BUTTS: I've tried to meet with him. I've tried to take distinguished business leaders to meet with him and his office has just not gotten back to us. This is a crisis. Who is he listening to? And who is Bratton listening to? Because the police department that I knew a few months back, a year back, was a lot different than it is now. And I would meet with Kelly regularly. And we'd sit down and talk. I could pick up the phone and get the mayor instantly. We'd sit down and talk.

Now, it wasn't a panacea. I mean, you know, we still had problems. But this is - I mean it's like we've been shut out. This is, for me, worse than the worse days of dealing with Mayor Giuliani.

BALDWIN: Wow.

SMITH: The - yes, the context here is very important.

BALDWIN: It is very important.

SMITH: And it's also important to distinguish between the over the top, outrageous rhetoric of union leaders, and a much more complicated, emotional reaction and interaction with 35,000 member NYPD. There's somewhat of a hangover in this relationship from the campaign that de Blasio ran last year, which was strenuously critical of the use of stop and frisk in minority communities.

BALDWIN: Right.

SMITH: He's tried to make the distinction between a policy and the police themselves. And that's a very nuanced, difficult argument to make, particularly when you have people with other agendas trying to make it us against them. And there's anger certainly on the part of a lot of rank and file, but it's not necessarily as simple.

BALDWIN: So, final thought. It was the hangover from the campaign. Then, of course, it's what happened in the wake of not just Ferguson but here in New York with the Eric Garner grand jury decision. And then, of course, in the wake of this weekend, on top of the tinder box that was already simmering, you know, from all the different protests.

Final thought. You saw all them in church yesterday at St. Patrick's, you know, Reverend. I'm wondering, does that need to happen a lot more?

BUTTS: It probably needs to happen a lot more, but the mayor just missed a huge opportunity at the Police Athletic League luncheon.

BALDWIN: He's talking again in an hour.

BUTTS: Well, he's got to do better than he did there because he certainly didn't say anything that would give the police any hope that he was at least listening to them. And moreover, to call on the protests to stop when the two events are unrelated in my mind, the protests are going to escalate. And so he's got a very slippery slope here and he's got a - and right now, you know, he's not showing the leadership that a city like New York needs.

SMITH: The mayor has been supportive of the police, both verbally and financially. He needs to up that volume, certainly, because a lot of what the police say is, they don't feel like there's been a balance in the conversation between fear of the police and what the police do day in, day out.

BALDWIN: OK. We'll listen for it both, the commissioner and the mayor speaking in about an hour. Chris Smith and Reverend Butts, I really appreciate the time. Thank you both very much.

BUTTS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Here, again, we'll take that live on CNN when that happens.

Coming up, one of those officers leaves behind two sons and next we'll speak with someone from an organization that promises to help pay for a college education for that young man and for all children of fallen officers in the New York area. That's next.

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