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NYPD Killings Raise Police-Mayor Tension; Court Throws Out Mother's Murder Charge; New Year's Pay Raise on the Way in 20 States

Aired December 23, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Long-simmering tensions are boiling over in New York City as the families of two slain police officers grieve. Mayor Bill de Blasio is trying to hit reset on his relationship with the NYPD.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: I have throughout my public life expressed tremendous respect for the NYPD. It's very well documented. I will continue to. I also think in a democracy that people express their desire for a more fair society and that's right and proper as well. But they must do it peacefully. There can be no violence and there certainly can be no violence against those who protect us and who represent our society. The police are our protectors and they must be respected as such.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: "Politico" has what you might call a different take on that, calling de Blasio's current state a quote, "nightmare" writing "Bill de Blasio, like his progressive political idol Barack Obama is finding out that you can't do the new politics if you don't pay attention to old politics. You can't be big city mayor and alienate the cops and that's just as true now as it was under three-term New York City Mayor Ed Koch or even a century ago."

Joining me to discuss it is "Politico" reporter Katie Glueck and also Gil Alba, a 28-year veteran of the New York City Police Department who now runs a private security firm. Welcome to you both.

Katie, let me start with you here. This bad blood between de Blasio and police dates back to his 2013 campaign. How has the mayor, would you say, alienated this department?

KATIE CLICK, "POLITICO": Hey. Well thanks very much for having me. You put it exactly right just a few minutes ago. What we're seeing now is these long-simmering tensions finally playing out above the surface and playing out in a big way. There's long been distrust of de Blasio among some in the police force going back to some of his previous positions in political life, you know. There may be some indication that there's been some mistrust on both sides.

But, you know, what we've seen in the past couple of days is these again long-term tensions really exploding. You have leaders of the police union in New York essentially accusing de Blasio of having blood on his hands while, of course, he's calling for a step back -- so certainly a very tense time in New York.

KAYE: Yes, certainly. Gil, let me bring you in here. I mean the NYPD commissioner Bill Bratton spoke on the "Today" show and he said that the murders of the officers was a direct spinoff of the protests that we were seeing around the country and certainly around New York. But listen to what the head of the police union had to say and let me ask you about it after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK LYNCH, PRESIDENT, PATROLMEN'S BENEVOLENT ASSOCIATION: There's blood on many hands tonight, that blood on their hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.

MARK NOVAK, FORMER NYPD CAPTAIN: If the mayor feels he's been unjustly and unfairly accused of having blood on his hands then I would say welcome to the world of the average NYPD officer. It doesn't feel very good, does it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And that was also Mark Novak there on "AC 360" last night. Do you believe that the police union and Mr. Lynch -- I mean should they apologize for the statements that they've made?

GIL ALBA, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Sorry, I'm shook up a little bit. You're asking me if the police should apologize?

KAYE: Yes.

ALBA: I'm saying the mayor should apologize first. That's the start. I mean this is a long history with the police department and Mayor de Blasio. He has turned his back on the New York City Police Department. He has shown disdain for New York City police officers and this is the result of this.

Even before the two officers were killed they signed a petition that they don't want the mayor to come to a funeral. So this was already brewing and it was going to come to a point. Did this guy --

KAYE: So you don't think that the mayor allowing the protests to continue was a part of this?

ALBA: As far as the mayor allowing the -- him calling it off right now you're trying to say or what?

KAYE: No, before that. He was allowing the protests.

ALBA: He was allowing. But it's not allowing. The police are not -- they do so many protests around the city with everything else. It's the fact they were saying "Kill the cops" and then they have no permits, they can do what they want, they curse out the cops. But police are almost with their hands tied so you can't do anything, you can't put them on the side or you can't direct them any place. So that's the frustration.

And de Blasio meets with the people that are demonstrating not with the police. So he takes one side and not the other. He turns his back on the police. So what's happening now? He walks into the hospital and what happens? Police turn their back on him. So it's not going to be an easy solution.

KAYE: Right. He seems to be making an effort though. I mean we know that he met with the families -- and this is new video that we were just into CNN this morning. There is the Mayor de Blasio at the memorial in Brooklyn where these two officers were ambushed and killed. This is his first visit to the memorial.

I mean Katie does it appear to you that he's trying to press, I guess, the reset button on this relationship? Can he do so?

GLUECK: Well, he's certainly appearing to try. He said he will absolutely be looking to go to the funerals of these slain police officers but at this point there doesn't appear to be an immediate obvious off ramp for him. You know, this, of course, comes in the context of not only years of perhaps mistrust but also weeks of pretty explosive tensions.

As we were just talking about, some police officers feel that he didn't really have their backs in the wake of some of the protests that we've seen sweep the streets in New York. So you're really seeing that come to the forefront now. Tensions are so high that sort of remains to be seen how receptive people will be to some of his overtures now.

KAYE: So Gil, you say, I mean obviously this goes back even before this. Should the mayor have been doing other things maybe to prevent this from escalating to the point where we're at now?

ALBA: He can still keep his philosophy I mean, what he has. But he has to work with the New York City Police Department so he has to really change. But a mayor -- it's not the police commissioner that should come out and be talking, it should be the mayor who should be able to now take control and put the city back together again and start with the mayor. And I think that's -- starting with him I think he could do it.

Just going to, you know, seeing the -- going to the vigil there, I mean that's a help. He should have did that right from the beginning. He didn't even visit the families right away. He has to do all that but he has to answer questions from the press and everybody else. So he's deflecting everything.

Go face it, fight it and I think he can take over and I think the police department would be just as glad that he does this. And if they start working together, that would be a good cause.

KAYE: All right. Gil Alba, appreciate it. Katie Glueck, nice to see you, as well. Thank you both.

GLUECK: Thank you. KAYE: And still to come, a Christmas time tragedy. A mother

convicted in the murder of her young son now two decades later she walks free from death row.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

An Arizona appeals court has thrown out charges against a mother convicted in the 1989 murder of her four-year old son. Debra Jean Milke is free after spending two decades on death row. Jurors at her trial believed the police detective who said Milke had confessed to the crime. But had she really? Our story begins this month 25 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE, (voice over): It was December 1989. All little Christopher Milke wanted to do was see Santa Claus. But that's not what happened. He wasn't taken to the mall to sit on Santa's lap. He was taken to the desert and shot execution style. He was just four.

Within hours, investigators identified two suspects -- James Styers and Roger Scott. During their interrogation Scott cracked then led investigators to the boy's body. But why did they do it?

The story began to unfold when Phoenix police detective Armando Saldate said Scott told him the boy's mother had also been involved so Saldate quickly zeroed in on Debra Milke.

MICHAEL KIMERER, DEBRA MILKE'S ATTORNEY: He in his mind based upon the little bit of information that he had was just convinced that this woman did it.

KAYE: Saldate arrested Milke, a 25-year-old insurance company clerk and within 20 minutes he announced she'd confessed to arranging for the men to kill her son. The alleged motive: a $5,000 insurance payout. Debra Milke was charged with first degree murder. The arrest and charges based solely on Detective Saldate's statements. At Milke's murder trial, Saldate was the state's star witness.

ARMANDO SALDATE, POLICE DETECTIVE: She decided that it would be best for Christopher Milke to die.

KAYE: Milke shot back.

DEBRA MILKE, CONVICTED OF KILLING SON: And I looked at Saldate and I said if I didn't want my son then I could give him -- I would have given him to my family, my sister, someone else in my family.

KAYE: Still, the jury believed the detective. In 1990, Milke was convicted and sentenced to die.

(on camera): But that was just the beginning of this strange case. For more than two decades, her story has captivated the state of Arizona, especially those here in Phoenix who have been asking, would Milke really have had her own son killed for $5,000? And if so, why did the two men she supposedly hired to do the job refuse to testify against her?

Milke has always maintained her innocence and never gave up on her appeals.

(voice over): Milke insisted she never confessed. Private investigator Paul Huebl believes her. He was working for a local TV station when Christopher Milke was killed and interviewed Debra a couple of hours after Detective Saldate did.

PAUL HUEBL, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I asked "Did you tell the police you had anything to do with the death of your son?" She glared at me, her eyes got really big and she says "That's crazy, who told you that, I had nothing to do with the death of my son."

MARK MILKE, FORMER HUSBAND OF DEBRA MILKE: This is probably my favorite.

KAYE: But her ex-husband, Christopher's father, disagrees. He always has. Do you believe your ex-wife killed your son?

M. MILKE: I know she did. I don't believe it. I know she did.

KAYE: And so that's where things stood until March of this year as Debra Milke sat on death row; where they stood until a stunning turn of events. A panel of judges from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided Debra Milke should get a new trial.

In a scathing opinion, Federal Judge Alex Kosinski tossed out her conviction, suggesting her confession had been illegally obtained adding "it probably never occurred".

(on camera): Court documents show Saldate didn't record the alleged confession or his interrogation of Debra Milke. There were no other officers present in that interrogation room, nobody was watching through a two-way mirror and there were no cameras or microphones to record it.

And there's more. Saldate never asked Debra Milke to put her confession in writing and he even skipped the most basic step of having her sign a Miranda waiver.

(Voice over): The federal appeals court judges didn't say Milke is innocent, but other than her so-called confession, there is no physical evidence linking her to the crime. Judge Kosinski also found prosecutors failed to disclose what they knew about Detective Saldate's history of misconduct, disciplinary action and lying.

The judge cited eight cases where confessions, indictments or convictions were tossed out or set aside because Saldate had either lied under oath or violated constitutional rights. In one case, Saldate let a motorist with a faulty taillight go in exchange for sex then lied to his superiors about it. The judge determined this would likely have cast doubt on Detective Saldate's credibility and may have influenced the verdict. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's still a fact that she was convicted of the

murder of her four-year-old son.

KAYE: On Friday, September 6, 23 years after she was sent to death row, Debra Milke walked out of prison a free woman for now. She was finally able to hug her mother for the first time in more than 20 years.

Now 49, Milke is preparing for yet another trial, but this time around things may be different. A judge will soon decide if her alleged confession is even admissible in court. And Detective Saldate -- he may ask for immunity and not testify.

KIMERER: They don't have Saldate to testify and if they don't have a confession this case probably has to be dismissed.

KAYE: Which means Debra Milke may get used to life on the outside.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And joining me now to talk a little bit more about this rather interesting case is Joey Jackson, an HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney and Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst. I know the two of you were chatting it up while we were watching that. A lot to talk about.

Mel, let me start with you. The prosecutor planning to appeal the lower court's decision to the state Supreme Court. I mean what are the chances --

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: How do you even do that? Can I -- I mean when you have no physical evidence, you've got a dirty cop that has eight violations and you as a prosecutor are now putting your integrity on the line saying after we have had this decision overturned, she's been released, we know that there were no Miranda warnings, there was no written confession.

KAYE: No taped confession.

ROBBINS: It was his word against hers. How do you in good conscience even appeal this case, Randi?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a fair point and you know --

ROBBINS: Former prosecutor.

JACKSON: Absolutely. It's a very fair point. Understand this -- great piece, by the way, Randi, that's a major injustice there that's been uncovered. Now, if your role as a prosecutor really is to do justice not about getting convictions but just what is just and right. And when you have a case, and it's a capital murder case, and you're depending upon a detective because the detective is saying she confessed and I'll tell you what she said. And in addition to that, forget about the fact she didn't write it down or wasn't recorded, there's no independent eyewitness who was a police officer who was there. When it's your word against the other person and you have this egregious misconduct on the part of the detective and you don't disclose it to the defense, it's a major what we call Brady violation. What does that mean in English? It means that if there's information that would tend to support the accused -- right; that would tend to show the accused is innocent it must be turned over.

Not only, Randi, did they not turn over the offenses of this detective that would have gone to his credibility, the very core of this case, but when the defense attorney tried to affirmatively get it through a subpoena, they made a motion to block and squash it.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: They really covered it up.

JACKSON: Absolutely. Quieting it down.

ROBBINS: And then there's something else which is amazing. The chief justice of the Ninth Circuit Appeals wrote a blistering takedown of not only the prosecutor but the police, the state judge, a federal judge -- he named names. Randi, listen to this. "No civilized system of justice should have to depend on such flimsy evidence, quite possibly tainted by dishonesty or overzealousness."

He actually goes on to say that the police department, the supervisor should be ashamed of themselves. You know what we call that in a legal profession? A bench slap right there from the Ninth Circuit.

JACKSON: Yes. We actually call it a lot more than that but Mel's being kind.

ROBBINS: We're on TV. Yes, exactly.

KAYE: But I mean the fact that Detective Saldate refused -- he took a step -- he refused to take the stand again for fear of perjury, I guess. I mean that tells you something, right?

JACKSON: It really does, Randi, and when you look at what wasn't turned over. When you look at -- listen to this, 1983, Saldate admitted interrogating a suspect strapped to a gurney apparently suffering from a skull fracture -- that's thrown out. 1986, the trial found that Saldate told a grand jury that a victim was shot four times even though it was undisputed that they were shot once. I could go on and on.

This is information, if you give it to a defense attorney who's able and capable -- Mel, what would you have done having had all this information when that detective testifies, you obliterate them.

ROBBINS: You would have gotten an acquittal.

JACKSON: Absolutely. So today you're telling the truth. Well, let's talk about what you said in 1983, you lied didn't you? And not only in 1983, in 1986 you lied then too. And you go on and on and on.

ROBBINS: Eight different times. And this is a case where it was his word against hers.

KAYE: That's all they had. That was it.

ROBBINS: There was no physical evidence. There was no taped confession.

KAYE: And wait, and what you point out the two guys who were accused of being her partners in this crime refused to testify.

ROBBINS: And they were on death row so they have every incentive in the world to cop a deal in order for testimony. They refused to testify against her. So this is why I go back to my original point. How as a prosecutor who is committed to justice do you possibly justify submitting an appeal in this case?

JACKSON: It's a great point. The point is that I get and understand that the prosecutor has to cover themselves to try to establish that they did the right thing, but when it's so obviously the wrong thing it's tough to defend that. At the end of the day it comes back to what we talked about before. As a prosecutor, do justice, don't just go out and get convictions. You do that and I think this system is much better off and society really than has trust and confidence in your role.

KAYE: Yes. It's a fascinating case that we will, of course, continue to follow. Joey Jackson, Mel Robbins -- great discussion.

ROBBINS: Great to be here. Thank you.

JACKSON: Pleasure Randi -- thank you.

KAYE: Still to come, many workers have protested for a higher minimum wage. Now some of them are about to get it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Oh, yes, it's that time of year. You have just two days left to buy gifts in time for Christmas or risk being labeled a Grinch. And retailers are hoping to hear a lot of ka-ching today and on Christmas Eve after lagging sales so far this season. Holiday shoppers spent $42 billion over the weekend, up from last year. Retailers say that was ok, but still not enough to make very strong holiday showing after Black Friday sales dropped 11 percent from last year.

Well, in just a few days, minimum wage workers in some 20 states will have more money to spend. About four million people are about to get a New Year's pay raise. CNN's chief business correspondent Christine Romans is here with some of the details on that. That's some nice news.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is. And this is about -- this is basically -- I don't know, we have 29 states now that have minimum wages higher than the $7.25 national average. I'll show you exactly on this map where you'll be seeing wage increases but it's pretty widespread here. Some of these are tied to inflation so some of these states have laws that their minimum wage will rise with inflation. Others are new legislation or new referendum.

The largest hike will be in South Dakota, $1.25 an hour extra. People in South Dakota will get it who are working at the lowest wage. The smallest hike is in Florida - it's about 12 cents. This is about 60 percent of all U.S. workers essentially now are under a higher minimum wage in this country. And it's an important discussion, really, because wages in general have not been rising and so even if the economy has recovered, Randi, wages have not been rising. In Washington they haven't been able to raise the federal minimum wage so states are doing it instead.

KAYE: And so how -- I mean you look at these the minimum wage going up in some of the states, how does it compare with the rest of the world?

ROMANS: In the U.S. the minimum wage -- the federal minimum wage is $7.25. Look at Denmark, for example -- much higher taxes by the way -- but in Denmark $20 an hour is the minimum wage; Australia, $13.66; Germany $10 an hour; France $11.66 -- all industrializations with a lot higher minimum wages than the United States.

And when you adjust the United States minimum wage in the U.S. for inflation, you know, this is -- minimum wage workers basically have been earning less now than they have in past decades. Small business owners will tell you, no, no, no this is not a good time to be raising the minimum wage for us because we have to do Obamacare next year for the first time. So we've got all this other kind of paperwork and regulation to deal with. Now is not the time to raise the minimum wage. But states, even red states, voters have been saying no, we think $7.25 is too low.

KAYE: And the push now, just real quickly, why the push now -- why the change now?

ROMANS: Because states one by one have been doing it. There has not been momentum in Washington. But when you look at public opinion polls, a majority of Americans, I think almost 70 percent of Americans, support a higher minimum wage. So even as politicians are on this, you know, right/left debate over minimum wage, the business community doesn't want higher minimum wage, the people, the polls show people do. So states have been starting to raise those wages.

KAYE: All right. Very interesting. Christine Romans, thank you very much for the update on that.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

KAYE: And thank you all for joining me today. I'm Randi Kaye, in for Carol Costello. "@THIS HOUR" starts after a break.

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