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Independent Theaters to Show Sony Film; White House on Sony; No Charges in Milwaukee Delta Baggage Handler Smuggled Guns

Aired December 23, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go. Breaking news here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

A huge, huge announcement here as Sony reverses its decision to completely pull the controversial film "The Interview" from theaters across the country. The film studio has just announced the comedy about the assassination of North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un, it will be sent to at least two independent theaters, one in Austin, Texas, the other in Atlanta, Georgia, for screenings, as originally planned on Christmas Day. This, as you well know, was the film that triggered cyber hacking, or as Sony would say cyber terrorism, from the film studio -- of the film studio and threats like this claiming if the film was released in any form of fashion, there would be retaliation referencing the 9/11 attacks. But the owner of the Plaza Theater in Atlanta says he is not scared to show it. He talked to CNN just a short time ago

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FURLINGER (ph), OWNER OF ATLANTA THEATER SHOWING "THE INTERVIEW" (voice-over): Well, we certainly will be taking certain precautions. You know, I've been doing this a long time, and in many years there's been a lot of controversial films. And when you do have something like this, you take some different precautions. And, you know, exactly what we're going to do, I really won't announce on air. But, you know, I've played, over the years, "Fahrenheit," "9/11," "The Last Temptation of Christ." All those pictures have, you know, controversial stories and things behind it. So, you know, we're smart about it, though I'm not expecting anything of a major concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me take a step back here because you know the fear of a possible attack, it was enough to lead Sony to pull the film, at least initially. A decision that did not sit well with the president of the United States. Here he was Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sony's a corporation. It, you know, suffered significant damage. There were threats against its employees. I am sympathetic to the concerns that they faced. Having said all that, yes, I think they made a mistake. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this with Brian Stelter, our CNN senior media correspondent, who's been breaking a lot of this for us, also host of CNN's "Reliable Sources," and David Cohen, senior features editor for "Variety."

So, gentlemen, welcome.

And, Brian Stelter, let me just turn to you here and ask you, I mean it's sort of like record scratch, what happened?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Sure does feel that way.

BALDWIN: It does.

STELTER: A week ago, they canceled the movie. They said they had no choice because all the big movie theater chains wouldn't support them with the release. But now they've cobbled together enough small theaters to do this. And we don't know exactly how many yet. They're actually still working on it. They say we'll have a better sense of that tonight as more theaters join onboard.

But here's what the CEO, Michael Lynton, has just said.

BALDWIN: OK.

STELTER: He came out and said that, we've never given up on this and that they always wanted to release the movie in some way.

BALDWIN: Here you go.

STELTER: And then he went on -- and here's the statement. It says, you know, that it will be in some theaters, a number of theaters, on Christmas Day. And at the end of his message he said this. He said, while we hope this is only the first step of the film's release, we are proud to make it available to the public and to have stood up to those who attempted to suppress free speech. For Sony, that's what this now is. Yes, they would like to make a lot of money off this movie. They'd like to sell a lot of tickets. But it's also a statement at the same time.

BALDWIN: So, David, do you - I mean what Brian Stelter was essentially just saying was, we'll be watching the coming hours. We're talking about Austin and Atlanta for now, but there could be other theaters that will be releasing "The Interview." And really the other big question, and I don't know if you have the answer, but then might this lead those bigger chains, who initially had yanked the film, might they show the movie?

DAVID COHEN, SENIOR FEATURES EDITOR, "VARIETY": I have a little bit of a skeptical and cynical view on this. I know that Brian talked about them cobbling together some theaters to show it. I do not believe for one second that Sony had to cobble together anything. I think if they had wanted to show the movie, they would have been able to find theaters to show the movie.

STELTER: True.

COHEN: And I think that they were perfectly pleased to have these theaters pull out and give them a face-saving way out. I think what they basically said was, who will relieve of us of this troublesome film.

BALDWIN: That was their scapegoat you see.

COHEN: You know, so I don't believe that they had any trouble finding theaters.

BALDWIN: That's interesting. Do you want to respond to that, Mr. Stelter?

STELTER: Well, is what you're saying, that they could have always put it into small theaters. I think the issue was, they couldn't find thousands of screens -

BALDWIN: Right.

STELTER: You know, from AMC and Regal and Cinemark. But I think you're right, you know, if they had wanted to, they could have put it into our house cinemas all across the country and just concluded they weren't going to make nearly as much money that way.

COHEN: I want to be clear. What I'm saying is, I believe that they were looking for a way to pull this film and they sort of, with a wink and a nod, got the big theater chains to give them a way to pull it. But the big theater chains would have been willing to run it if Sony had wanted them to. So I - I think it's all been a huge effort in face saving.

BALDWIN: You know, David, your -- I've heard that. I've heard that theory before, definitely, definitely.

Let me just pause for a minute. We talk so much about this film. We do have a clip. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most dangerous country on earth. Kim Jong- un's people believe anything he tells them, including that he can speak to dolphins or he doesn't urinate and defecate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're telling me that man doesn't pee or poop?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody pees and poops. Where would it go otherwise? He'd explode.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he does talk to dolphins?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ahhh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So interesting, because it's one of those films maybe a lot of people actually weren't planning on seeing. This is like the kind of buzz you can't really buy for a film, Stelter.

STELTER: For sure.

BALDWIN: What they -- both Franco and Rogen, what, they've tweeted in the wake of this decision?

STELTER: Yes, this is really Seth Rogen's movie. This was his idea years ago.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

STELTER: And he just put up a Twitter message. He says, "the people have spoken. Freedom has prevailed. Sony didn't give up. 'The Interview' will be shown." And then James Franco, his co-star in the movie, put up this Instagram and he wrote, "victory, the people and the president have spoken." And it's interesting we hear him calling out President Obama specifically because, you know, this flip flop by Sony, if we can call it that -

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

STELTER: Happened on Friday at the same time the president had said Sony made a mistake.

BALDWIN: Not necessarily a coincidence, I've been wondering.

STELTER: I don't think so.

BALDWIN: He mentions the president and he mentions the people. David, let me just get this poll. CNN has some polling. Six in 10 Americans believe Sony overreacted when they decided to pull "The Interview." David, final question to you. Do you think it was ultimately, even though if we're talking about scapegoating with the theaters, ultimately it wasn't necessarily even the people, but the president?

COHEN: Well, the president certainly denied Sony its face-saving way out of this. I think the other thing that Sony has to worry about is talent relations. They've got stars and directors all over town who have other options they can go to other studios, and they can look at this and say, hey, if I take a chance, if I take a creative risk and somebody for some reason threatens my movie, will you pull mine, too? So I think, for once, market force has actually put Sony in a position where they had to do something to -- their face-saving way out was to actually put the movie out in some form.

BALDWIN: Hmm. Hmm. David Cohen, thank you. Brian Stelter, thank you.

COHEN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: I want to move on to some other breaking news we have for you on this Tuesday, on this whole Sony story. The White House is now releasing a statement on Sony's decision to run "The Interview," this film, in at least some of these more independent movie houses. Let me go to the White House, to our correspondent there, Michelle Kosinski, who actually isn't at the White House, lucky her. She's in Hawaii, traveling with the president.

So, Michelle, what is the White House saying in response to this?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well this was a big deal to them. I mean we heard the president's strong statement about maybe what could have been done regarding Sony, saying that he wished Sony had called him first, which sparked this kind of back and forth between him and the company. Well, now today, at this latest announcement, the White House has just put out a statement. This is from Deputy Press Secretary Eric Schultz (ph) saying, "the president applauds Sony's decision to authorize screenings of the film. As the president made clear, we're a country that believes in free speech and the right of artistic expression. The decision made by Sony in participating theaters allows people to make their own choices about the film, and we welcome that outcome."

You know, the president, when he spoke to Candy Crowley over the week, he said, you know, what are we supposed to do? If a dictator someplace else is able to impose censorship or self-censorship in this country, where does that stop? So this is something that the White House, obviously, cares about, has wanted to weigh in on. And we expect them to continue to weigh in on how this progresses, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me follow up with you, as I'm talking out of the side of my mouth to Brian Stelter, who's still sitting with me, who read my mind. My follow-up question is, and this is a question put to the president Friday at that big end of the year news conference. You know, we all know the president takes in some movies, right, over the holiday. And I'm wondering if he has made public that he would see the movie?

KOSINSKI: That actually was asked to him during his press conference, his end of the year press conference on Friday, and he said he did have a long list of movies to watch, that he wanted to get to, but he wouldn't say whether this was one of them. Surely, if he wanted to see it, somebody would make that happen. But we have no news on that at this point, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, keep us posted on his, I guess, beach going and movie watching activities in Hawaii. Michelle Kosinski, traveling with the president, covering him there, thank you so much.

KOSINSKI: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Coming up, the stunning story here, more than 100 guns smuggled onboard flights between two major airports, Atlanta and New York. Some of these guns were loaded and actually inside the cabin with passengers. Carry-ones, folks. How the heck could this happen?

And next, a black man shot and killed by a white officer, and this time the district attorney announcing there will be no charges filed, but may ring familiar, it is much more complicated. We're going to talk about that story out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And I have to tell you about this family. They are in mourning and a community is frustrated, they're angry. And the reason why may be a theme that you've heard before. African-American man shot and killed by a white police officer. The district attorney goes before the cameras to say he won't be filing charges for use of excessive force.

We're not talking about New York. We're not talking about Ferguson. I'm talking about Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Back in April, Dontre Hamilton was shot more than a dozen times by an officer who was responding to a call of a man sleeping in a public park. Now yesterday the D.A. announced there will be no charges here, that the officer did, indeed, act in self-defense, and, quote, "that defense cannot be reasonably overcome."

As there always is, there are many, many layers here to this story. So for that, and all the complications, let me bring in CNN's George Howell.

And, George, you are there in Milwaukee. You sat down with this young man's mother. What is she saying?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, like you said, many layers to this story. A lot of details that we will sort through in the piece you're about to see. But, obviously, the prosecuting attorney here sees things differently than the mother of Dontre Hamilton. And the very least here, we have a mother who lost her son. That's the bottom line. And out of respect, I simply asked the first question of how she's coped -- been coping over the last several months. Here's what she's had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA HAMILTON, MOTHER OF DONTRE HAMILTON: Dontre was my youngest son. He should have been burying me.

HOWELL (voice-over): Surrounded by friends and family, Maria Hamilton is speaking out for the first time since learning the former police officer, who shot and killed her son, will not face criminal charges. For this mother --

HOWELL (on camera): When you heard the decision of this prosecutor, what did you think?

HAMILTON: I wasn't surprised. We're prepared for the worst.

JOHN CHISHOLM, MILWAUKEE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Any time I have to tell a family that I can't bring justice to them, when one of their loved ones has died, is always tragic.

HOWELL (voice-over): District Attorney John Chisholm says Officer Christopher Manney acted in self-defense in the confrontation with Dontre Hamilton. Even though he didn't realize two officers responded before he did to the report of a man sleeping in the park and they concluded Hamilton was not a threat.

OFFICER CHRISTOPHER MANNEY: 46 - 1246, shots fired! Shots fired! Officer involved.

HOWELL: This is the call Milwaukee police officers heard over the radios April 30th, when Manney called for backup. He claimed Hamilton resisted when he tried to frisk him. Then, he says, they both exchanged punches before Hamilton grabbed hold of his baton, hitting him.

MANNEY: The guy started beating me. He started beating me and he grabbed my bat and he was going to hit me in the head with my own bat and shots fired.

HOWELL: Manney fired his weapon 14 times before help arrived. You see him here after it happened.

MANNEY: I may have been hit with the baton, but I am OK. I'm off the air now, the sergeant's in charge.

HOWELL: The police chief fired Manney for his actions that day, saying he allegedly instigated the confrontation. And though he correctly identified Hamilton as mentally ill, he did not follow proper training.

People have been protesting what happened here months before Michael Brown's death in Ferguson and Eric Garner's death in New York.

HAMILTON: It's not just about Dontre in Milwaukee. It's about all the lives that have been taken.

HOWELL: Maria Hamilton believes her son died at the hands of an overzealous cop. In fact, she points to a bizarre incident caught on tape back in 2012. The same officer seen here scuffling with a clown on the streets. Police say the clown was darting in and out of traffic, spraying cars with a squirt gun and that he resisted arrest. Hamilton says it's another example of Manney taking it too far.

HAMILTON: We actually pay their salaries to protect us, to serve us, to make us feel safe. It's a slap in the face to our community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: George, let me just bring you back in because as I was, you know, watching that report and reading the local paper there in Milwaukee, "The Sentinel Journal," they were reporting that Manney's officers believed to have been the first officer in Milwaukee fired as a result of a fatal on-duty shooting in at least 45 years. Can you explain to me exactly why he was fired? What was the protocol he didn't follow?

HOWELL: Well, look, so the police chief, who fired him, basically said that this officer put himself in a place where he had no choice. He was in a confrontation and had no choice but to use deadly force. He could've made different decisions. What were those decisions? Well, the first, he says, is this officer

did identify Hamilton as a mentally ill suspect, but did not follow the proper training. And, secondly, and simply, that the officer instigated this fight, putting himself in that position. So, again, we see the D.A.'s read on this. That's the decision from this district attorney. We now know, this was announced yesterday, Brooke, that the federal government, the Department of Justice, will also be reviewing this case.

BALDWIN: As we've seen in other similar cases, DOJ on it.

George Howell, thank you so much for that and the interview in Milwaukee.

Let's broaden out the conversation. David Klinger is a former Los Angeles police officer, and the author of "Into the Kill Zone," and Joey Jackson, HLN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney.

So welcome to both of you.

And, David, just as a former officer, I want to begin with you here because apparently, as I understand it, there were other officers, a pair of officers, went to this park earlier in the day. They saw Mr. Hamilton, didn't determine he was a threat. Flash forward, this officer, Manney, goes to the park, engages with Mr. Hamilton, believes to feel some sort of, you know, object, a hard object in his waist or in his pocket. There's a little bit of back and forth. I want you to tell me, when this officer feels threatened, how would you respond? What is protocol?

DAVID KLINGER, FORMER LAPD OFFICER: Well, the first thing I want to say is, this is, once again, a tragedy where an individual has lost his life and my heart does go out to the family. They always are going to be grieving in a situation like this.

But getting back to your point, my understanding from reading the prosecutor's report is this situation escalated fairly rapidly, and there was a physical altercation that turned into a situation where the officer discharged his firearm multiple times after the suspect had taken his baton away and attacked him. And that statement by the officer appears to be, from what I've read, consistent with the witness statements. And so in a situation where an individual is attacking you with a deadly weapon, you have the right to use deadly force. And that's basically the standard all across the country.

BALDWIN: Joey, again, you know, here's the situation. This officer continues to fire 14 times as this man is walking towards him. Shoots him. Kills him. The decision is made not to press charges. You know, this was self-defense. Explain to me how they arrived at that decision.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Brooke, what happens is, is there's three critical things legally that you have to examine in any self-defense case. The first thing is the immediacy of the threat. How immediate is the threat that's being posed on the officer? Once you get by that, you turn to the second inquiry, which is, is the force that's used proportionate to any threat posed. Here we see that there was a baton. Was it appropriate or inappropriate to fire? That's an outstanding, you know, that's the question to be decided.

And then the third layer of inquiry is, did you act reasonably under those circumstances as a police officer would? Now, to be fair, an officer is taught to shoot until the threat has been terminated no matter how many shots that takes. But it raises the larger question, I don't know exactly what happened. I've read the reports, like everyone else has read the reports. But it raises the larger question as to the investigation itself. What were the protocols followed? We do know that this state has one - and it's independent, right, unlike any other state in the country, it has an independent investigative source. But there's still, Brooke, when I say independent, questions as to the nature of the independent investigation (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: So let me stop you here just so we're crystal clear.

JACKSON: Sure.

BALDWIN: Because I know there's a lot of information to take in. So, after the shooting happens, in the state of Wisconsin, which is unique -

JACKSON: Exactly.

BALDWIN: It is an independent group who investigates, say, an officer- involved shooting. The hinky part is that some of these officers, as part of this independent panel, are former Milwaukee police officers.

JACKSON: Exactly. And that's deemed to be problematic. And what they've done, and this is in the wake of, you know, a person actually who had his son killed - he happens to be a white person of who I've had the occasion to interview, and you have to give credit to him, he spent his own money as a result of a civil settlement that he received, Brooke, $1.75 million, on a campaign to get independent investigations. But why it's being attacked, Brooke, is because the way it's structured is, you have the Department of Criminal Investigation. They undertake that investigation. And there are two issues here. One, as you mention, members of that investigative team are former Milwaukee police officers. And number two, the issue is, was it really independent? Did they, that Department of Criminal Investigations, merely rely upon Milwaukee police and oversee it as opposed to really engaging in an independent investigation.

BALDWIN: David Klinger, you're listening to all of this. I'm just curious, your thoughts as a former officer because, my goodness, we have a number of amazing members of law enforcement in this country. We seem to be covering stories like. But I would just love to hear your thoughts.

KLINGER: My basic perspective on all this is, we have to go back to the instant in question as opposed to focus on the review process. Unless someone can point to some evidence that says the independent review was faulty in some form or fashion, we go back to all of the evidence. And all the evidence I've looked at indicates that there was, in fact, an altercation that escalated to the point where an officer was attacked with a deadly weapon. And under that circumstance, deadly force would be warranted. Now, if there are problems with the investigation that get brought up, and it indicates that something other than that happened, then we would have to address that issue. But from my perspective, not just as a former cop, but as a university professor and someone who does expert witness litigation support where I testify both for police officers and against them -

BALDWIN: Sure.

KLINGER: This is one of those situations where we have to look at it and say, the standard is police officers, as your other guest pointed out, have a right to defend themselves until the threat is over.

BALDWIN: OK. For now, we'll leave it. But we'll follow up and see what happens, obviously.

David Klinger and Joey Jackson, thank you both very much.

KLINGER: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Coming up, more than 100 guns smuggled onboard planes flying from Atlanta to New York. Some of the guns loaded and carry-ones. As in inside the cabin with passengers. How could this happen?

We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Next hour, we will get new details on this gun smuggling scheme between two major U.S. airports. Federal authorities have arrested this man they say smuggled guns from Atlanta to New York. In his carry-on luggage, a bag full of ammunition and guns, loaded guns, including AK-47s.

How did this happen? Good question. Apparently he had help. Investigators say from a Delta baggage handler. And now a major smuggling investigation is underway and that arrest raising all kinds of concerns about security. I do have a statement from Delta. Let me read this for you.

"Delta is cooperating with authorities in this investigation. We take seriously any activity that fails to uphold our strict commitment to the safety and security of our customers and employees."

Sara Ganim is here with me to explain.

I mean, I'm hopping on a plane later today and you think of all the security we go through and you think that they could get a loaded carry-on with guns?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seemingly a huge breach in security, right? And in Atlanta's Hartsfield Jackson International Airport, which is the busiest in the country. A lot of people flying through there, especially during the holidays.

Here's what happened, Brooke. This man, a baggage handler for Delta, his name is Eugene Harvey. He was getting, smuggling guns through an entrance to the airport where employees don't have to be screened.

BALDWIN: Ah-hah.

GANIM: And when he would get through, he was meeting up with another man, a former employee, who understood the workings of the airport, who did go through airport security because he had a ticket to fly. His name was Mark Quinton Henry. And the two of them would meet up in the terminal, in a bathroom, exchange the guns, and then Henry, in his carry-on luggage, would then fly with the guns from Atlanta to New York. And in New York he was selling them on the streets.

Well, here's how they got caught, because he was selling them to someone who he didn't know was selling them to an undercover police officer, and they were able to trace back the scheme, back to these two men.

BALDWIN: Ah-hah.

GANIM: Now, just to give you a -- an idea of the scope of how big this operation was.

BALDWIN: OK.

GANIM: This happened 20 times between May and December. And, again, when they arrested Henry, just to give you an idea of how big this was, they found 18 guns on him when he was arrested in December. Seven of them were loaded. And, in total, over the course of this operation, they smuggled 153 firearms, including two assault rifles, Brooke. I mean, it's incredibly scary.

BALDWIN: Jaw on the floor.

GANIM: Especially -- we fly a lot. We've both flown through Atlanta a lot. Just think --

BALDWIN: Yes.

GANIM: And that's a scary thing -

BALDWIN: Through a side door in a bathroom, loaded guns. You've got to be kidding me.

GANIM: Through a side door that employees apparently can just walk through with whatever they want and be in the terminal where we are and then get on planes in carry-on luggage to have guns. Really scary.

BALDWIN: We'll be talking more about this at the top of the hour. We'll look for the Brooklyn D.A. to outline even more details, talk to a former member of the FBI about the investigation and, obviously, huge, huge questions about needing to screen. Can't walk in side doors with guns.

Sara Ganim, thank you so much for that.

Coming up next, the Internet problems in North Korea. Major outages reported. President Obama said that the U.S. would respond, remember, proportional response was how he said it in the wake of the Sony hack. So who could be behind this?

You're watching CNN.

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