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At This Hour

Spike in North Korea Nuclear Program: Obama's Approval Rating Improving; U.S. Military Track Santa; West Jet Airline Delivers "Christmas Miracle"; Big Year for Catholics, Pope

Aired December 24, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I want to bring in CNN National Security Analyst and former CIA operative Bob Baer. So that's the question. Here we are all concerned about potentially sending a police officer to a movie theater and watching out for hacking, and Kim Jong-un is really busy, and according to some of the best sources, the most difficult guy to spy on. Especially when it comes to nukes.

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Ashleigh, that's exactly it. This attack on Sony came as a surprise. Clearly if we had learned about it in advance, we would have warned Sony, they would have taken measures to protect themselves. We don't know what goes on inside that regime. All we do know is that North Korea is a failed state. It's gotten an irrational leadership and it's willing to use violence sort of at will, whimsically, almost, and they do have nuclear weapons, six to a dozen. So it probably makes it one of the most dangerous regimes in the world.

BANFIELD: So I just want to quote something if I could from "Bloomberg" view. A group of top U.S. experts led by David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security, has made an estimation in their studies of North Korea, and, again, it's an imperfect science, bob, but they North Korea could have enough material for 79 nuclear weapons by the year 20. So what we're talking about, nine now. The growth is exponential, if the estimates are right. So my question is the estimates. How good are we at spying on Kim Jong-Un and his regime and how good could these estimates really be?

BAER: Ashleigh, we're awful at it and it's not our fault, actually. For instance, the North Korean military can go into full mobilization and move towards South Korea and we wouldn't know it until we actually saw the tanks on their platforms and moving. That's how bad our intelligence is. They have an extraordinary ability to keep secrets. We do not have a diplomatic mission there. We do not have scholars going back and forth. The country is pretty much a black hole as is the leadership. We only know about the violence when it's about to occur or after it occurs. They've attacked our ships, they've crossed the border, killed South Koreans for no apparent reason, they've kidnapped Japanese and they're perfectly capable by the way -- and I don't think they have the means to do it -- to attack movie theaters here. They have frankly crazy.

BANFIELD: You're a former CIA op. You know a thing or two about this stuff. How believable is it, Bob, that North Korea, A, was behind the Sony hack and, B, could make good on some of the threats, the actual criminal threats they were making for physical violence if that movie were shown?

BAER: I think this administration didn't pick this conflict. I think the intelligence the probably pretty good. The FBI is good at tracing these things, following codes and the rest of it. And I think the FBI's quite aware that the North Koreans, if they have assets in this country, are perfectly capable of attacking a movie theater here, throwing a grenade in it if you like. I frankly don't think they have the means to do it so I think we'll probably see a reaction to this movie appearing somewhere else, another cyber bomb, doing something to South Koreans, it's difficult to tell.

BANFIELD: Maybe a lot of blustery rhetoric, too. Bob, I'm seeing you in Irvine, California, where the weather looks beautiful. I hope you have merry Christmas.

BAER: Merry Christmas.

BANFIELD: Nice to see you. Thanks for coming on.

Coming up, a political disconnect. The economy is booming and gas prices and unemployment are low, and yet President Obama is not so popular -- or hold on there. Is he? Got some new information out that might make you think twice about what those stats have been saying.

And later on, this Christmas eve, Pope Francis celebrates not only mass but a massive shakeup at the Vatican. And perceptions of just what a pope is supposed to be. We'll talk about that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The past few weeks have made for quite a bookend 2014 for President Obama. From a climate deal with China to his executive action on immigration to staving off a defunding of Obamacare and normalizing relations with Cuba, all sound good and all sound bad, depending on what color sweater you're wearing right now. After all of this, the president's approval rating has actually risen to a 20- month high. 48 percent of Americans approving of the job the president is doing.

I want to bring in our political commentator, Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona; and Republican strategist, Rich Galen.

They are not wearing their ugly sweaters to show which party they're wearing.

RICH GALEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Maria doesn't own anything ugly.

(LAUGHTER)

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Galen, I'm wearing your color today.

BANFIELD: Maria, let me start with you.

Is this a moment for the president to crow or say, OK, we're going in the right direction, time to tackle other things with momentum behind me?

CARDONA: I think it's the latter. I think what you've seen this president do all along is underscore what has been some terrific economic news but tempering that with saying look we have a long way to go because he knows and I think this is what has happened this year that even know national indicators have been quite good for a very long time people are now feeling in the their pocketbooks, which is where it counts. I think the last jobs report was not terrific because of the job numbers it showed but it does show this economic up tick in people's personal economies with wages starting to go up, with more people finding the work that they want the conundrum for the GOP is are they going to focus on these real solutions or talk down the economy and try to take things away that the American people are now enjoying because of President Obama's points.

BANFIELD: OK, good point.

Rich, I want to ask you about that specifically with numbers to back up what Maria just said. 49 percent of Americans say the president's policies are moving the country in the wrong direction. While they may give the Republicans a moment to crow, hold the phone. It also found the same proportion as the policies the Republican leaders in Congress stink and would do the same thing. What's the answer? How do you get people liking politics or the political players better?

GALEN: Well, I don't know that we can. One of the things that's happened, and I take my share of responsibility for this, is that we have perfected negative ads to the point that it's -- that that is almost all the advertising that anybody sees when it comes to election time. But let me go back to what we're talking about to what Maria was just taking about that. Is to say you can't forget about what happened six weeks ago. Not only did Democrats lose control of the Senate, not only did Republicans increase their majority of the House to decades highs but Republicans went down the ballot and down the ticket and all of that happened on President Obama's watch so it's like saying, well, General Custer, other than all that, how did you like that trip to Little Bighorn? There's a lot of stuff going on. I'm in favor of the president doing well, by the way, because I want the country to do well. A lot of what you were introducing this, Ashleigh, when you were ticking off, so many of those things so many of those happened either after the election or, like Cuba, the day after Congress adjourned. Why didn't they happen while we could have a full discussion about them? Whether you agree with the policy or not, they ought to be discussed. We'll see what happens. And the president's not on the ballot --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: I'm going to join you Rich in taking my fair share, and that is for all of cable news, in the fact that it's not just ugly advertising. It's also ugly discussion.

GALEN: And ugly people doing the discussion.

BANFIELD: A lot of times it's two people screaming at each other with talking points and there's very little Kumbaya, in this Christmas season, maybe we can do more of that.

So while a lot of speech and free speech is terrific, shouldn't we take our responsibility in making it effective and improvement speech rather than hacking speech, Maria?

CARDONA: Absolutely. And I think what you'll see, with Rich and I, is exactly that. Rich and I go way back and while we can disagree we can really --

BANFIELD: Of course.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: But to your point, we can talk about things civilly, we can talk about the ideas and we can talk about what have been the real solutions. Rich is right, Democrats had a bad night on election night but you have to take a couple things into consideration. Only 36 percent of the electorate voted. It will be very difficult going into the 2016 election where Republicans are going to have to reach out to the larger coalition of Americans --

BANFIELD: All right.

CARDONA: -- who did not come out that election night. And --

BANFIELD: I'll have to wrap it there.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: And I want to say the second thing is that polls now show that 50 percent of Americans think it's a bad idea for Republicans to take control of both houses of Congress.

GALEN: Karen Tumulty, of the "Washington Post," had an interesting tweet the day after the election. It said, "We'll find out in two years whether the Democratic coalition is a Barack Obama coalition or a full Democratic coalition." Because he will be on the ballot, we will know that in two years.

BANFIELD: Merry Christmas. Thank you for taking the time to be with us.

GALEN: Feliz navidad.

CARDONA: Thank you. Feliz navidad.

(LAUGHTER)

BANFIELD: I can't say the rest of it. I'm Canadian, not Spanish.

CARDONA: (SPEAKING SPANISH)

BANFIELD: I love her.

(LAUGHTER)

All right, Maria Cardona, Rich Galen, thank you both. Take care.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Still ahead @THISHOUR, the pope of the people, Francis, takes the world by stage and by storm. A look at the man who many say is turning the Catholic Church on its ear.

Then, a little later on -- yeah, baby, that's what I'm looking for, for Santa Claus. We'll check in with NORAD because that's what they do. They check Santa and his sleigh and his eight tiny reindeer and Rudolph, too, to find out what the sightings are or if there are any so round up the kids. We'll have the special Christmas report on Santa coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I always love this time of year because you the U.S. military is tracking Santa and his reindeer. It's true, folks. As Santa tries to deliver gifts to children all over the world, the North American Aerospace Command, better known as NORAD, is using radar satellites and jet fighters to make sure to make sure that guy is safe and find out where he is and what time he'll arrive at your house. Although we understand that the same weather conditions that are making travel hard on Americans today, may require Santa to vary his course, we are being told that he is very close to Bhutan, that secretive kingdom, Bhutan. You can go to NORADanta.org and you can watch as they do this.

Sometimes Santa takes a plane. Look at what the Canadian airline West Jet has done to people in the Dominican Republican town. The airline and their employees have brought Christmas hope to families there who are living in poverty. They told Santa what they wanted and Santa and all those blue boxes delivered. And, boy, did Santa deliver. This video will give you an idea of the Christmas miracle that West Jet pulled off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Good Canadian company. So touching when you see the basic things they asked for, like a horse and a washing machine.

Our Michaela Pereira spoke with the president and CEO of West Jet, Gregg Saretsky.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can I ask you how this started? I know there's going to be people in are going to be cynical and jaded and say it's just a big promotion for their company. But to be honest, I know West Jet has done interesting kind of promotions in the past. Last year, you had a video that went viral in years past, you've done these interesting things, ways to give back. This seems like you upped it a whole lot.

GREGG SARETSKY, PRESIDENT & CEO, WEST JET AIRLINE: Well, the truth of the matter is, our airline is built on a culture of care and that care really translates into creating remarkable experiences for our guests and for others. This year we brought it to the Dominican Republic to the little impoverished community of Nuevo Renecer. So it was a wonderful thing to bring our culture of care to a new audience in the Dominican Republic.

PEREIRA: What drew you to that particular town?

SARETSKY: We've been working with another Canadian charity called Live Different and they've been involved in the Dominican Republic for ten years and we partnered with them three years ago because we saw the need and West Jet flies to several communities in the Dominican Republic and we wanted to find a way to give back. And this year we thought wouldn't it be wonder if we could give back not only in the homes that we build there but in granted wishes to these people who have such a beautiful spirit.

PEREIRA: Can we just talk about the logistics, though? I'm watching the magic unfold and you would have had to work under cover of darkness to pull this off and seems like it might have been a logistical nightmare.

SARETSKY: It was made more difficult due to a torrential rainstorm that hit two days prior. We had a film crew down there and some help from our folks at Live Different as well.

PEREIRA: Give me your sense of watching these faces when you see the moment that they are given the horse, the doll, the little something that makes them realize that there's somebody out there caring about their future.

SARETSKY: Oh, my goodness. It's just so joyful. As a parent, we look for these moments in our own children. And it's just so lovely to see that in others.

PEREIRA: Are you going to keep doing this in the future? How do you beat this? This was kind of the best, Gregg.

SARETSKY: Well, thank you. I think it's less about beating the video. The video is not the point. The point is bringing our culture of care and these fabulous guest experiences to others. The video just helps to record so we can share them with others. If we can make a little bit of difference for people of the world, we will have succeeded.

PEREIRA: I salute you. I appreciate what you've done. You've made Christmas a whole lot more joyful for many people there.

Thank you so much.

Gregg Saretsky, of West Jet, thank you for joining me today.

SARETSKY: Thank you.

PEREIRA: And merry Christmas.

SARETSKY: My pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Great Christmas spirit. Always good to see a story like that.

Still ahead @THISHOUR, it's been a good year for Pope Francis, the man who's captured the world's attention. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: It's a very big night for Pope Francis, topping, I think, what you could call an amazing year. Thousands of people will gather at St. Peter's Square in Vatican City. The plan is they will hear the pope's Christmas message, live, right there with him in front of them. And this is a pope who both excited and shook up Catholics all year long with some pretty bold and brave moves. He inserted himself into the Palestinian/Israeli conflict during a landmark trip to the Middle East. He was a peacemaker between the U.S. and Cuba. And he hosted a major church meeting to discuss a more welcoming stance towards gays and people who are divorced. And next year, he's got a plan to meet the United States of America. That's coming in September.

Joining me is CNN religious commentator, Reverend Edward Beck.

Reverend, thanks so much for being with me. And a Merry Christmas, sir.

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGIOUS COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Ashleigh. Merry Christmas.

BANFIELD: I need to ask you this. All these things the pope's been doing, seems the reverberations are very, very positive. But does it mean what he's doing is working? And how do you measure that?

BECK: Well, it certainly seems to be working in that people are talking about it and there's a whole different perception about the papacy and about the church. Just to know we celebrate the prince of peace with Christmas that this pope has certainly been a man of peace, all those things you mentioned, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the United States and Cuba. He intervened with Syria, he wrote a letter to president Putin when the G-20 summit was going on saying, no military intervention. And he had a day of prayer for that. And there was no military intervention. I'm not giving him all of the credit for that. But this man has placed himself center stage in the world arena and he's done some remarkable things. So in actuality, things have changed.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you this, Father. It seems to me in this business I'm in of being a cynic, people love a good guy/bad guy smack-down, with the criticisms that came out on Monday within the organization of the church, calling illnesses within its members and superiority and loss of compassion seems to really bolster people who believe there could be policing from the top. Do you measure this, though, in membership? Does it actually translate into membership or does it just translate into a happier existing membership?

BECK: I think it translates in that the membership wants to know that that accountability from the top is there. It was hardly a merry Christmas Christmas address, was it? He took them to the woodshed in a very public way and talked about those spiritual illnesses you mentioned. Pathology of power, here the most powerful man in the church, the pope, is talking about the pathology of power. He talked about the terrorism of gossip, the arrogance of bureaucrats who are not in touch with their faithful. So I think the faithful listen to that and say, gee, he gets it, he sees what the problems are.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

Father Beck, have a merry Christmas to you and yours. It's nice to have you. We'll see you again soon.

BECK: Thanks, Ashleigh. Merry Christmas to you.

BANFIELD: Thank you, sir.

Thank you everyone for joining me @THISHOUR. I've got much more ahead on "LEGAL VIEW." Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)