Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Protests against Police Violence in Missouri; Protests in New York Continue; Congresswoman Yvette Clark on Protests

Aired December 24, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye in for Carol Costello. Thanks for joining me this morning. We begin with some breaking news. Overnight, just minutes from Ferguson, Missouri, a Berkeley police officer shot and killed an armed teen, triggering yet another tense night of anti-police anger and accusations.

Police say it was self-defense. The teenager pointed a handgun at the officer. The victim has been identified by his mother as 18-year-old Antonio Martin. This video was posted online. You can see Martin's mother crying there, reacting to her son's death.

Here's what we know so far. The shooting happened at a gas station in Berkeley, Missouri; that's just two miles from Ferguson where unarmed teen Michael Brown was shot and killed. According to police, the officer approached two men at a gas station during a routine check and that is when one of the subjects pulled out a gun and aimed it at the officer. In fear for his life, police say, the officer fired multiple shots, ultimately killing the victim. The second man, we understand, got away. Police say the victim's handgun has been recovered at the scene. Shortly after the shooting, the victim's mother spoke with CNN affiliate KMOV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONI MARTIN, VICTIM'S MOTHER: They won't tell me nothing. His girlfriend told me that the police was messing with him. He was fitting to get up and run, when he was trying to get up and run they start shooting him. They don't tell me nothing. They won't even let me see my baby. They just got my baby laying out there. He's been out there for about two hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The shooting has already sparked tense protests with police. At one point demonstrators threw this smoking object toward the officers.

Let me bring in CNN's George Howell. He is in Berkeley with the very latest for us. George, tell me what's happening there.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, you walk through the timeline quite precisely. What we saw overnight, some 200 to 300 people who gathered around this area where it happened, people who were angry, who were upset about what happened and, again, you talk about bricks being thrown, those explosive devices that we saw video of being thrown. Now we're at a point where this family, Toni and Jerome Martin, they're trying to make sense of it all, they're trying to understand the facts.

I just spoke with them in their home just a few minutes ago and it's simply a tragedy for any family. To-lose a loved one. You have a mother, and a father who are coping with the fact that they will not have their son with them on Christmas Eve, and that's the situation that they are dealing with right now.

But they did say that they are trying to get as much information as possible, they want to know the facts and they say look, if he was right, he was right. If he was wrong, he was wrong. That's where they are right now.

And here are the facts as we understand them. Again, this happened overnight here at this gas station and the surveillance video that police have put out, it goes up to a point and then it freezes. OK, so what we see in the video and we've blown it up so you could see it as best that you can but you do see two figures near a police car. They walk up, the police officer gets out of the car and just before this video freezes you see one of the figures pointing toward the officer with what looks to be a weapon. Keep in mind, after this happened, there was a weapon that was on the ground as part of the crime scene evidence. Police are obviously looking at that. And, again, they put out this video up to a point, right before the shooting, we believe, that's the video that we have to look at.

Also there is an issue of surveillance, body cameras. You know, a lot of the officers around here, especially after the Michael Brown shooting, they invested, the departments invested in these police body cameras so police officers can walk around and video that would be captured any time they had interaction with people. In this case, Randi, we know that the officer did not have that body camera on him. He did have access to one, but did not have it on him. And there is question about why he didn't. We may have a sound bite here, I'll ask the control room if we can play that sound bite where police officers explain why he didn't have that body camera. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: The officer also had a body cam, but he didn't get that assigned to him at roll call today or at last night. And it was handled off to him during his shift and because of that from talking to him briefly he said that right when it was handed to him he was doing something at the time, he clipped it somewhere in the car, he didn't put it on and then the next thing you know, you're here. I think it talks a little bit about sometimes the imperfection of some of the technology that we have in effect that we're not used to it all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HOWELL: So police not used to it. You know, and speaking to the family just a minute ago, they say, you know, if they have body cameras, why wouldn't they have it on, but, again, we're hearing from the department that officers just still getting used to them. That's certainly a situation that will be talked about here in this community. This is really the epicenter of a lot of the tensions that we've seen here throughout the country from New York, from Milwaukee here in the St. Louis area so this is happening very close to home for a lot of people, people have a lot of questions. He did not have the body camera on him, this officer, however we do see surveillance video that shows quite precisely what happened moments up to this shooting. Police put that video out. That is one account that certainly they will be investigating, looking into to understand why this officer drew his weapon and as they're saying used his weapon in self-defense as another person pointed a weapon at him, Randi.

KAYE: Yeah, and there's also some talk that there is a closer view of a second surveillance camera so maybe we'll get that today as well and maybe even dash cam. Any word on whether or not there is dash cam video, George?

HOWELL: Well, you know, we don't know yet and we're definitely looking into that. We're looking into all angles to find out if there is more video. I mean, look at this store. You can imagine -- and I would bet there may be other surveillance views. We're going to walk around and see if we can, you know, find anything more, but the situation here, this happened under bright lights. You know, these gas stations, they light up at night. There are a lot of cameras pointed in a lot of different directions. I'm sure police are looking for the same thing to find out if there's more video, but you can bet your bottom dollar this case will be investigated very thoroughly.

KAYE: I'm sure it will be. George Howell, I appreciate it. Thank you live for us there in Berkeley, Missouri.

(AUDIO GAP)

Mayor Bill de Blasio's call for a pause in their demonstrations.

A protest against racism and police violence went on last night. De Blasio had asked for the protests to stop until after the funerals for the two police officers killed on Saturday. CNN's Sara Ganim is in Brooklyn for us this morning. Sara, set the scene for us there, please.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Randi, you know, yesterday here in New York started with a moment of silence for those two slain police officers. And I want to give you a chance to just listen in to that for a moment.

Like I said, there was the dimming of the Rockefeller Tree that came after that. But the call for calm this solemn, it did not last very long here in New York. Mayor Bill de Blasio calling for the funerals - I'm sorry, calling for the protests to cease until the funerals of those two slain police officers, but protesters hit the streets anyway, chanting about racist cops, they marched down Fifth Avenue during one of the busiest shopping nights of the year holding signs that said "Jail Killer Cops" and "Stop the war on black America." They said they didn't feel the need to stop protesting while others mourn the death of officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu.

Both of those officers were killed when they were shot in the head on Saturday inside their patrol cars by a man who had posted on Instagram that he was out to "put wings on pigs" speaking revenge for the death of Eric Garner who died in an apparent chokehold by police who were trying to arrest him. Now, Garner's daughter attended the memorial for those two police officers earlier this week. Also attending the memorial was Mayor Bill de Blasio who had come under fire by some who said he was not supportive enough of the police officers in the wake of Garner's death.

Now, all of that being said, the funeral for one of those officers, Rafael Ramos, that's being held this weekend and the mayor and the police commissioner are expected to be there to speak at the funeral as well as Vice President Joe Biden, he will be there with his wife as well. Randi.

KAYE: Sara Ganim, appreciate your reporting, thank you very much.

The White House has confirmed, by the way, that Vice President Joe Biden will attend the funeral for Officer Rafael Ramos to take place on Saturday. The shooting deaths of Ramos and Wenjian Liu are a grim reminder over the tensions plaguing police departments across the country. Let's talk more about it with Democratic Congresswoman Yvette Clarke of New York.

Good morning to you.

REP. YVETTE CLARKE (D) NEW YORK: Good morning.

KAYE: So, in recent weeks we have seen lawmakers including yourself make the hands up "Don't Shoot" gesture on the House floor. It's become - it's become really a common sight at some of these protests as well, as they marched down the street. What were you and your colleagues trying to accomplish by doing that?

CLARKE: I can't speak to my colleagues, but I can speak to myself. What I was trying to do was express what many of my constituents expressed, which was a dismay with the miscarriage of justice, what is being perceived in many quarters of this nation as a miscarriage of justice and bring attention to the fact that in the capital of the United States there are representatives that recognize that there are -- this is a multifaceted issue that we're grappling with and that we can see all angles of that.

KAYE: Do you think, though, that a gesture like that, whether it's football players doing it or Congress people doing it, do you think that it fuels or could possibly fuel some of the anger that the protesters are feeling?

CLARKE: Let me say this. Nothing fuels the anger more than the incidents that have already taken place. And the sentiments that many in communities of color have been dealing with and sort of suppressing for many years now. This is not coming out of a vacuum, out of nowhere, this comes from the real life experiences of young people in our communities, of older men in our communities, of people who are just at the point where they know something has to change.

KAYE: Let's talk about what happened in Berkeley, Missouri, overnight. You have this - this suspect who police say was armed. I mean it looks from the video at least, we don't know for sure, as if he is raising - was raising a handgun in the direction of the officer. Does that warrant the protests? Because I'm sure you've seen the video of the explosions that occurred at the gas station afterward.

CLARKE: Yes.

KAYE: They were throwing bricks at police. Where do we draw the line?

CLARKE: You know, when you're dealing with emotions it's very hard. It's not like there is a particular point at which you say "Today I'm going to suppress how I feel versus yesterday." And I think that's what you're seeing with regard to these protests around the nation. I don't think they're going to cease until we see real reforms take place. You know, I think everyone is in mourning over the loss of our officers. But you also have to balance that with the fact that many of these communities have been feeling this way for quite some time and it's now surfaced and until it's addressed I don't think that we're going to see the type of subsiding of it that some in our nation would like to see.

KAYE: As you well know, I mean here in New York Mayor de Blasio has asked protestors to pause and to not keep protesting until at least after these officers are buried. I have a headline for you from the "Daily News" if I can show it here. It says right there "Have You No Shame?"

CLARKE: Yes.

KAYE: That is what was on the cover of the "Daily News" because the protesters did march again last night. What do you make of that?

CLARKE: Well, I think the "Daily News" has its own opinions. I, too, have called for a ceasing of protests, just a grieving and a mourning period here in the city of New York, an opportunity to sort of recalibrate and, you know, come back with some solutions. However, individuals are going to do what's in their heart and what they desire and that's what protest is about. That's what non-violent protest is about and that's what made a change in this nation over 50 years ago during the civil rights movement and people understand that, people are connected to that. And I think that's what we're seeing with this new generation.

KAYE: Congresswoman, thank you very much for coming in. Wishing you a safe and happy holiday.

CLARKE: Likewise. Thank you for having me, Randi.

KAYE: Thank you very much. Still to come, Internet access in North Korea is on the freeze but what would cause a panic in the U.S. is barely noticed outside of Pyongyang.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Internet access in North Korea has remained spotty just hours before "The Interview" is scheduled to hit a small number of theaters here in the U.S. But that inconsistent access likely isn't being noticed outside Pyongyang. Take a look at this image taken by NASA earlier this year. That dark spot in the middle is North Korea where electricity is limited and only Pyongyang is actually lit at night. And as Brian Todd found out, many North Koreans are also in the dark about the Internet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As the U.S. and North Korea face off over a devastating cyber-attack, most North Korean citizens are cut off and isolated.

(on camera): If you ask the average North Korean citizen about the Internet, would he or she know what you are talking about?

KATY OH, INSTITUTE FOR DEFENSE ANALYST: Ordinary people in the mountainside, countryside, in the valley far away from the Pyongyang, they do not have any idea about what Internet is about.

TODD (voice over): Only the elites have access to the Internet. There are just over a thousand I.P. addresses in the entire country. Compare that to a billion and a half I.P. addresses across the U.S. Experts say if you're in North Korea and on the Internet it doesn't seem any slower or more primitive.

MARTYN WILLIAMS, NORTHKOREATECH.ORG: It looks the same as the Internet that you or I might be able to access. The difference there is, though, is that the North Koreans are very good at self- censorship.

TODD: Meaning they know what websites they're not supposed to visit. Analysts say for a wider group of North Koreans there is an internal system that looks like the Internet but isn't, it's called (INAUDIBLE), which means "Bright Light."

WILLIAMS: It's a domestic intranet. Which means that it connects through universities and libraries. There are a few websites on there that mostly carry information from the government and then some scientific or sort of technical data.

TODD: But it doesn't go beyond the bounds of North Korea. The only way the global Internet gets in and out of the country, experts say, is through a single cable routed to servers in China. So how does North Korea's leader use the Internet?

OH: There was an interesting episode that the South Korean intelligence discovered, that the famous Psy, the Gangnam style, the famous dancing was checked off on his Web site six times and it's inside Pyongyang near the Kim Jong-Un's residence. The suggestion is that he was the one who used the Internet web surfing to see the Psy site.

(MUSIC)

TODD: Analysts say even for North Korea's elites having extensive access to the Internet is a mixed blessing. They say often when top North Korean officials go online every point and click is monitored by the security apparatus. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: For more, let me bring in Mark Rasch, he's a former cybercrimes prosecutor for the Department of Justice. Mark, good morning to you. So, an expert CNN spoke with says that North Korea may have actually disconnected itself. Is that possible?

MARK RASCH, FORMER DOJ CYBER CRIMES PROSECUTOR: That's probably very likely. To defend against the threat of attack, they would have taken themselves offline and tried to beef up their own security. So that's certainly one likely scenario about why they went offline.

KAYE: And if North Korea's Internet issues were a response by the U.S., if the U.S. did take part in this, should we expect that maybe North Korea might hit back? I mean, are we taking the first steps here, I guess, is the question in a cyber-war?

RASCH: If it was the United States, then, yeah, we're going to have this tit for tat kind of cyber war where we're going to attack them and they're going to attack us. But it's not the kind of thing that the U.S. government would typically want to do. We actually want them to be up and running, so that we can monitor what they're doing.

And plus, we actually believe in more free and more open Internet access. And finally, if we're going to attack something on the Internet, we need to have the Internet up and running.

KAYE: And sources are telling CNN that the FBI is going to stay in contact with the theaters that are going to be screening the film "The Interview" because of potential threats, including maybe even another hacking job. I mean how concerned are you and how concerned do you think theater owners should be?

RASCH: Well, as for theater owners, I don't think they should be concerned at all. And as for people wanting to go see a movie, I don't think they should be concerned at all. This isn't the kind of force that North Korea even if they were responsible for this, would be able to project into the United States. As for companies like Sony and others being worried about cyber-hacking or cyber-threats to them, that's a legitimate concern because it doesn't matter whether it's North Korea or hackers, they want to be able to make a statement that they still have vitality and that they can still go after people.

KAYE: All right, Mark Rasch, appreciate your insight as always. Thank you. RASCH: Thank you, Randi.

KAYE: Still to come, he is not just spreading Christmas cheer, Pope Francis is actually blasting some catholic leaders. The spiritual diseases the pontiff hopes are treated as we dive into his risky relationship with the Vatican next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: 23 minutes past the hour now. It could be coal for Christmas for some top catholic leaders. Pope Francis pretty much confirming that on Monday during his annual pre-Christmas speech with the Vatican bureaucracy known as the curia, he reeled off a list of criticisms. The pontiff revealing his long list of bad attitudes and behaviors that he believes are ailing the church's central offices. Here are just a few of our favorites.

Feeling immortal, having spiritual Alzheimer's, suffering from existential schizophrenia, and committing the terrorism of gossip. CNN's senior Vatican analyst John Allen is in Rome with more for us this morning. John, good morning to you. So, the pope, he really isn't holding back. What has been the response?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, I think the response here in the Vatican, inside that administrative bureaucracy known as the Roman curia, has been a bit mixed. I mean bear in mind Pope Francis was elected on a reform mandate. The papal election of March, 2013, was probably the most anti-establishment papal election of the last hundred years. He was put in office to break the cycle of scandal and managerial meltdown that had come to be associated with the place. And there are a lot of people inside the system who know it's long overdue for a house cleaning and who therefore feel like the kind of rhetoric they heard from the pope on Monday was in a sense totally appropriate.

Now others will tell you, look, we've been trying to carry water for this guy for 20 months and we wonder, does he have anything positive at all to say about us? That he's - you know, he's concentrated so much on our defects, what about our virtues? And I think that's the kind of gamble involved here, Randi, that on the one level Pope Francis wants to shake the place up, and so he has got to make clear what he means by that. But on the other hand, to implement that reform mandate he is sooner or later going to need some of those folks and he is going to have to find a way to motivate them. Because I can tell you for sure, Randi, no one came out of that room on Monday feeling like they had just heard the "win one for the Gipper" speech.

KAYE: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

KAYE: That's for sure. That's a good point. But John, you recently wrote an article, and it said that the Vatican is no different from any other environment, and that people naturally love a winner and the pope's sky high poll numbers and political capital have brought around even some Vatican personnel who may initially have been skeptical. Can you dive a little bit deeper on this one?

ALLEN: Sure, well let's start with this. The Vatican is a sovereign state under international law. It has got diplomatic relations with about 180 countries and it takes its diplomatic and political role very seriously. And therefore, people in the Vatican always like it when the pope is seen as a serious player. Now, after the last week, in the pivotal role that Pope Francis played in the restoration of diplomatic relations between the United States and Cuba, with even the president of the United States acknowledging the pope's centrality to that breakthrough, Francis has gotten an enormous amount of political capital, including among his own team who really like that perception of the pope as an important figure.

The question now, Randi, is how does he choose to spend it? And I think we saw him on Monday drawing on some of that political capital to say, look, you know, the price of this success is there are some established patterns of doing a business around here that simply can't continue and I'm serious about breaking them.

KAYE: And what about in 2015? What do you expect this pope might do?

ALLEN: Well, look, I think this pope ought to come with a warning label like a pack of cigarettes that says "Caution, predictions are hazardous to your health." So trying to speculate what he might do is a hazardous enterprise. But we do know some things that are on his calendar. We know, for example, Randi, that he's coming to the United States in September. He's going to visit Philadelphia for a Vatican meeting of families. He's probably also going to stop in New York and Washington. We know that in October he's going to be convening another summit of bishops from around the world. What the Vatican calls the Senate to talk about some very hot-button issues such as the role of homosexuals in the church, whether divorced and remarried Catholics ought to be able to get communion.

We know he's going to make a number of other trips, he'll be going to Sri Lanka and the Philippines in January, probably France at some point during the year. We expect him to release an encyclical letter, the most important form of papal teaching on the environment, the first ever such document from a pope on climate change and ecology, and on and on.

Randi, it's going to be another big year from Pope Francis.

KAYE: He does keep it interesting, that's for sure. John Allen, thank you so much, have a nice holiday.

ALLEN: You, too, happy holidays.

KAYE: Thank you.

And before the break, a live look at Christmas Eve there in Bethlehem revered as the place where Jesus was born, locals and visitors alike are flocking to the town's Nativity Square for tonight's celebrations. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)