Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Coalition Jet Shot Down by ISIS; Another Fatal Shooting Near Ferguson; "The Interview" Available Online

Aired December 24, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

The coalition fight against ISIS is different now. In the past few hours, the balance of power may have changed. And this is why. The man in the picture here is a fighter pilot from Jordan. The other men are ISIS fighters who say today they shot him and his plane down. This is not confirmed. He actually may have crashed the plane for other reasons. But if it is true, then it's the first time that ISIS has shown that it's capable of fighting back against coalition air strikes led by the United States. Exactly how this changes the game and the Pentagon's reaction in just a moment. But this is what we know so far about this alleged shoot down. Here's CNN's Hala Gorani.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A captured pilot, terrified. His mouth, bloodied. Around him, fighters from the terror group ISIS celebrate their latest victory. The downing of a Jordanian F-16 fighter jet, part of the U.S.-led coalition.

It's unclear whether the plane suffered a mechanical failure. But ISIS says its heat-seeking missiles were responsible and published these images on social media to prove it. A retired Jordanian air force commander identified this hostage as his nephew, Lieutenant Moaz al- Kasasbeh. In a statement e-mailed to CNN, Jordanian government spokesman Mohammed Momani called Kasasbeh, "a model of heroism," adding, "all Jordanians stand united with the Arab army's brave soldiers in their quest to keep purity and the honor of the nation. The war on terrorism and the ongoing battle is in order to defend the Islamic religion."

The plane came down near Raqqa, the de facto capital of the Islamic State's self-declared caliphate. In this city, along the Euphrates River, the U.N. says civilians suffer under a brutal regime characterized by public executions and enslavement. Coalition warplanes have made it one of their prime targets. But this downing, whether intentional or not, presents a new challenge to President Obama's all-aerial campaign in Syria and Iraq.

Hala Gorani, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: In Washington, our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joins me live now. And in Carmel, California, CNN military analyst Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona is live with us as well.

Barbara, if I could start with you, please. The Pentagon saying anything about this reports and these images that are now coming in?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, for now, Ashleigh, a senior defense official is telling me they have no direct evidence that this plane was shot down. They just don't see the evidence that they would be looking for. But, look, this is very early on. The Jordanians, the U.S. and coalition authorities continuing to investigate all angles as to what might have happened to this plane, what would have brought it down.

For now, it is ISIS that's saying - is saying they shot it down. U.S. officials are saying they're not so sure. They just don't see the evidence.

BANFIELD: And, look, this may be a Jordanian pilot, but he is also a coalition pilot, a coalition that's led by the United States of America. What's the status of Americans, American pilots, American warplanes and how much we're flying sorties as well?

STARR: Well, for - the - I spoke to coalition officials earlier today. They say there is no change in the flying status right now. That flight operations are continuing as planned. But make no mistake, all pilots in the coalition, all of the countries are going to want to know very quickly what exactly did happen here and if there is anything they might have to be more careful of, if they need to change altitudes, flight patterns, if they need to do anything different than they already do to stay out of the range of potential ISIS shoulder- fired surface-to-air missiles. That's always a big worry.

For now, it's our very clear understanding that they stay out of the envelope of those missiles. But if something did happen here that brought the plane down, those pilots are going to want to figure it out very quickly, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Colonel Francona, what does the coalition do now? I'm just trying to imagine the conversations on the ground, whether they be on aircraft carriers or bases around Syria and Iraq. What exactly is the plan? Stop the sorties, regroup, figure out what the capacities of ISIS actually are and then go at it hard?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I don't think they're going to stop. They need to find out what brought this aircraft down. Barbara's exactly right. Was this a shoot down or was there a mechanical problem that brought the aircraft down, either crashing it or bringing it into the threat envelope of these weapons systems.

As she said, ISIS possesses a wide range of shoulder-fired missiles. ISIS claimed it just - they were - it was shot down by a heat-seeking missile, which fits the pattern with what they have. But if the pilots are operating above that, then there must have been some other reason for this aircraft to go down. That's the first thing, they need to find out what that was. Then, if it was a shoot down, assuming that it was, then we have to

find out what system brought it down and what do we do against it. The first thing you want to do is find out what countermeasures do we have. The F-16 is a very capable aircraft. We've used it for years. And it's, you know, it's got all the defensive systems that we need. So we need to find out the reason for the aircraft that was brought down.

Also, there's another problem now. The - ISIS now has a hostage. They have a trophy. Someone from the coalition. This is something that they've not had before. Although they've had westerners, they've never had a coalition pilot.

BANFIELD: So that brings me back to you, Barbara. They've got this hostage. Yes, he is not American, he's Jordanian, but he is a coalition member. Does that mean that American spec ops, special operators or special forces, may end up as boots on the ground, and I know Americans don't like to say there's boots on the ground, but when it comes to something like this, is it possible we may just have to send someone in to help rescue that man?

STARR: Well, look, he was captured in Raqqa, which, as we know, is, in fact, the de facto capital of ISIS. Very much their stronghold. If he is in Raqqa, it is going to be very difficult to get him back. Everyone understands that.

The Jordanian government, let me point out, the Jordanian government has some of the most capable counterterrorism forces in that region of the world. They are very experienced. They have been fighting al Qaeda and other militants for years. They know their business. Whether the Jordanians are able to do something to try and get them back, whether U.S. forces are brought in, these are some of the most, as everyone understands, the most classified operations there are out there.

If you're trying to get a pilot back, the last thing you do is talk about it. So I think the news media would not know. But I think it's a very safe bet, all the options, all of the options to try and get this man back certainly are being looked at.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Colonel Francona, will this make any difference in terms of galvanizing positions of countries who may be on the fence about whether to be a part of this coalition or not when they see someone from Jordan, you know, a predominantly Muslim state, being held hostage like that and paraded around for the world to see? Does this do anything for the coalition in terms of building more consensus, more membership?

FRANCONA: I think it - I don't think it's going to have an effect one way or the other. I think that members that are a part of the coalition will remain part of the coalition. Those that have reservations will still have reservations.

The Jordanians themselves are showing a lot of resilience. I did some checking with the Jordanian media and it was interesting. I went on this pilot's FaceBook page. It's all in Arabic. And there are now over 16,000 people that have joined in with the "we are all" in the pilots name. So I think it's going to galvanize the Jordanians.

I think we need to watch in the next few days to see ISIS' move because what we don't want to see is a grisly, grisly scene that we've seen in the past.

BANFIELD: God forbid. And our hearts go out to that pilot's family this Christmas season. Barbara Starr, Colonel Francona, thank you both and merry Christmas to you.

FRANCONA: Thank you.

BANFIELD: We've got new protests that emerged overnight after a police officer shot and killed a teenager near St. Louis. Yes, folks, it may sound the same, but this is much, much different than the death of Michael Brown. The officers say this teenager pointed a gun straight out at the police and they've got the backing of a predominantly black leadership in that community. You're going to hear all about this, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We're getting a lot more information about another police shooting, this one just two miles from Ferguson, Missouri, in the St. Louis suburb of Berkeley. It happened just outside of a gas station before midnight. Police say the 18-year-old in question pointed a gun squarely at an officer. Nevertheless, this is what happened not long afterwards. In fact, it was almost immediate. Scuffles breaking out with protesters who came out to the gas station where the shooting happened. Tensions were running high following the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in nearby Ferguson just in August. Our George Howell is in Berkeley, Missouri.

George, it's really critical to point out the mayor of this community, a state senator there, they have already hit the air waves to warn people, this is very, very different. It is not at all like the Michael Brown shooting. Can you tell me what it is they're pointing to?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, and looking at all of the facts of the case, you know, this does appear here very different than the Ferguson case because there's surveillance video. You see this happen, Ashleigh. And we've tried to blow it up so that you can see these characters, these people in the -- at the top of the screen. But, again, what you see, you see two men with a police officer, a car that had just pulled up, a police car. And just before the video freezes, you see one of the men pointing what looks to be a weapon at the police officer, putting the officer in a position where he had to defend himself. That is according to the police and that's what we're hearing from the mayor of Berkeley.

The mayor also saying that this police officer was doing his job, doing a routine business check and responding to a report of shoplifting. You know, many of these officers, they do put their lives on the line every day doing their jobs. In this case, the mayor says his officers, 80 percent, 90 percent of his officers, of all officers are good guys, good people who are doing their work. He believes this is probably the case here. But he doesn't want people to jump to judgment, rush to judgment. So he's promising a very thorough investigation in this case.

But, Ashleigh, this is the epicenter of it all. Remember, just two miles away, that's where Ferguson, Missouri, is. That's where we were back in August when there was unrest. And then we saw the -- after the decision, there was more unrest. So tensions are very high here when something like this happens.

BANFIELD: But it should be noted that the - that the mayor, Theodore Hoskins, as well as a state senator, have come out, both of them are black, and they have highlighted the fact that this community is predominantly black, as is the leadership and the police force is also representative of that as well. Is that the reason we're not seeing as much activity behind you now because it was just moments after the shooting -- and that gas station was alive with very angry people.

HOWELL: You know, not to opine there, you know, black, white, blue or green, I think looking at the video there and looking at the facts of the case, I think that's where people are making that distinction because the video tells the story. The video shows that you see a person pointing a weapon at a police officer. The police department has frozen the video there, but that's really what people are looking at.

I did spend some time, Ashleigh, with the family. That's what they're looking for. You know, they're -- obviously this is a tragedy for them. They lost a son on Christmas Eve. They're hurting. But they're trying to figure out what his actions were. They want to figure out if indeed he pointed a weapon at a police officer. And they told me, look, if he was right, he was right. If he was wrong, he was wrong. But they are very closely looking at all of the facts of this to understand what happened.

BANFIELD: Do we know anything more about this 18-year-old? And I'm -- we're just showing that image again, George, so that people could see. That video is pretty clear. It's hard to see it, but in that highlighted corner right beside those tiny words "camera 29," you can see the image as he backs up.

HOWELL: Right.

BANFIELD: You can see his arm go up and you can see what appears to be a weapon drawn in his hand. The red arrow was pointing directly to the arm in question that's raised against that police cruiser and the officer that's beside the police cruiser. What do we know about this 18-year-old?

HOWELL: You know, we're still learning more. I do plan to speak more with the family to learn more about him. When I did spend a few minutes with them, they were obviously shocked. They were dealing with the news that they just lost their son. And, you know, I think that, as we go throughout the day, they may want to share more about him. But they do - they tell me that they expected him to be home. They expected him to see his grandmother that he hadn't seen for some time. So all of this is quite a shock and surprising to them if indeed this is the case. The case being what we see in that video, where a person is pointing a weapon at an officer and an officer responds with deadly force in defense of his own life.

BANFIELD: George Howell live for us in Berkeley, Missouri. Thank you for that.

Two NYPD officers assassinated, their killer calling it retribution for the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. And now Garner's daughter is speaking out. What she's saying about those deaths and the protests that have happened since. Hear her words, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The daughter of Eric Garner, that's the man who died after being put in a chokehold by a New York City police officer, she's offering her support to the families of the police officers who were shot and killed execution-style in Brooklyn. She told our Wolf Blitzer that she feels their pain and that nothing could ever bring her father back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Emerald, what went through your mind when you heard that the man who murdered those two New York City police officers in Brooklyn had earlier posted online that the killings would be revenge for the deaths of your father and Michael Brown?

EMERALD GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S DAUGHTER: Well, the first thing that went through my mind was basically, you know, there's something wrong with, you know, him as a person. He's not, you know, mentally stable because, you know, with everything that we've been saying, we want everything to be peaceful. So it wasn't, you know, that he didn't know what was happening. He just, you know, took it upon himself to take, you know, negative actions.

BLITZER: You visited a memorial yesterday that had been created to honor these police officers, Ramos and Liu. Explain why that was important for you to be there and publicly offer your condolences.

GARNER: It was important to me because, in the case of my dad, people came out and they supported us. And I just felt really saddened by it because a young boy - young kids lost their father, like I did. So I know exactly what it feels like to lose a parent. So, for him to lose a parent and, you know, a senseless death was just - it was just so heartbreaking because he's a young boy. He's young, like my brother. So he's going to live the rest of his life without his dad. And I can definitely relate to him. And just because he's a police officer's son doesn't mean that he doesn't have feeling.

BLITZER: Of course. It's very, very sad, very tragic. As you know, Emerald, there are those who point fingers at that tiny, tiny number of people who were saying really ugly things during the protests about dead cops and stuff like that. What do you say to those people? GARNER: I tell people - like I want to get the message out there that

they're not all bad cops. Like, all cops are not bad. I have, you know, FDNY and NYPD in my family. So that doesn't make me look at them like, you know, they're bad because they're cops. They are still my family. So, once you take off that uniform, you're a regular person. So just because you have a uniform doesn't define you as a bad cop. So I just want to let them know, not all cops are bad. So we just got to salute the good ones and wean out the bad ones.

BLITZER: But you reject this notion of, you know, calling for dead cops? I mean that's ugly and horrendous.

GARNER: That's ugly and it's very tragic. And, you know, I don't want anybody to die. Like, there shouldn't be any more bloodshed. It doesn't matter, any situation, nobody needs to lose their life in a senseless way. It was so, you know, it was so bad. Like I just -- just looking at all of the candles just brought me back to when it - when what happened to my dad happened because it's like -- it's just repeating. It's like a repetitive thing. It just keeps happening and happening and happening. And it doesn't make it right just because you killed a cop. That doesn't make it right. My father's still gone. So you killed a cop and there's still no - I still can't get my father back. So I can't say, oh, go kill this person because they're a cop. That's not going to bring my dad back. So, that's just something that, you know, people need to understand that, you know, killing somebody because somebody else was killed is not going to change the fact that the person is gone.

BLITZER: Yes, well said. Mayor de Blasio, as you know, he's called for a halt to all the protests until after the two police officers are laid to rest. Do you support him on that? Because apparently there are some out there who don't want to heed what he's saying. They want to continue to the protests during these days.

GARNER: I feel like anything peaceful should be brought to the table. So like if you want to be peaceful, then I support you. If you want to disrespect these families as far as them laying to rest their loved one, I don't support it at all.

BLITZER: How are you doing, Emerald?

GARNER: I'm better. I'm better because a lot of people are coming forward and saying, you know, we support your family, we, you know, we want to help you and stuff. That's really like what makes he keep going because a lot of people are like, you know, they gave me backlash, oh you shouldn't have went down there and paid your respects to the family. And a lot of people are like, that was a good thing that you did.

I do what I felt is right. I felt like I needed to go and let that family know that if nobody else in the world is sending their condolences to you, I am, because it was wrong for them to lose their life that way. I would never - you know, i would never wish that on anybody because it's hurtful. And I'm hurting. I'm very hurt. I'm still, you know, dealing with what's going on with my dad. But I feel like the support and the people who encourage me to keep moving forward, that's what gives me the strength to keep moving forward.

BLITZER: Well, our deepest condolences to you, Emerald. Thanks very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

GARNER: Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Emerald Garner speaking with our Wolf Blitzer.

Sony could give viewers a surprise gift this Christmas. Not only will that movie "The Interview" be opening in some theaters, you just might be able to watch it in your slippers in your living room on the Internet. That controversial new film may just be out in really wide release. Much wider than even first expected. That story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Silver bells, silver bells, it's Christmastime in the city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK, are those really silver bells that I hear? Really? Honestly? Huh-uh, no. That's freedom ringing, folks. That's what them bells was.

"The Interview" is going to be available online. And, guess what? We all thought maybe after tomorrow, maybe in the new year. Today. I'm here to break the news to you. The movie, "The Interview," is going to be online via YouTube, Google Play, and the Microsoft xBox video game console today. In fact, like a little over half an hour from now. Oh, just when my show ends. How convenient.

The movie is also still scheduled to hit a couple of theaters - ha, a lot of theaters, in fact. Yesterday at this time it was two. Now it's upwards of 300 independent theaters across the country are going to run that movie tomorrow. So this is - look, there's no other way to classify this. It's a win for America and for Sony and for the freedom ringers and a handful of independent theaters who are willing to show the film. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN DAVIS, ALAMO DRAFTHOUSE CINEMA: This is the theater that will play "The Interview" starting Christmas Day. It's about freedom of speech and allowing art to be played and allowing people that want to see that art to come see it.

PAUL BROWN, TERRACE THEATER: When they offered it to us and asked us if he wanted to do it, we said, sure. You know, we thought that - that, you know, the censorship, the external sort of censorship of the movie didn't seem really right or fair. And as an independent theater, we should support that. And it just seemed like the perfect opportunity.

MICHAEL FURLINGER, PLAZA THEATER: It's not necessarily about the film. It's about the idea that, you know, can you see it, are you not going to be allowed to see it?