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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Top 10 of 2014
Aired December 24, 2014 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Hello and a warm welcome on a cold morning to "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The Top 10," as we look back on the most important
and memorable business stories in 2014.
This is the winter village at Bryant Park. It's the perfect, appropriate place for us to begin our countdown. We're going to be using the streets
of Manhattan to navigate our way through the list.
Let's get underway.
QUEST: Number 10, and we start at the 10th precinct of the New York Police Department, which keeps the local area in order.
Keeping the world's financial system in order is the International Monetary Fund. The IMF invited me to chair the annual meeting's debate. There, the
big issue was the different economic plight of the United States and the Eurozone. Jeroen Dijsselbloem, head of the Eurogroup, disagreed that this
was the main problem.
JEROEN DIJSSELBLOEM, DUTCH MINISTER OF FINANCE: You seem to make a problem out of the fact that the monetary policy in the U.S. is now in a different
phase than it is in Europe --
QUEST: But --
DIJSSELBLOEM: -- I don't think that's -- I don't think that's the problem at all. I think that's fitting for the economic situation, even in the
QUEST: Well, hang on a second, Minister. The fact that the two largest trading blocs can engineer themselves into such a situation that one is
going in one direction on monetary policy, the other is going in the other direction --
QUEST: -- at the point after six years of a major crisis, that's a bit of a problem.
DIJSSELBLOEM: No, it's not a problem, it's fitting for the difference in economic situation and the different where we are in economic cycle in the
U.S. and in Europe. And it will be very strange if we had exactly the same monetary policy going on in the U.S. and in Europe at this moment.
That would be very strange. So I simply disagree with what you're saying.
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: Well, Jeroen has a point. Those two policies are unprecedented; they are
accommodative, but they're not synchronized. The Fed is many quarters ahead of the ECB.
So you, Richard, are right in saying that there will be, you know, variations, arbitrage to be had for those who are playing with markets,
because there will be different moments in the same cycles, if you will. And I think we're seeing it in the currency variations.
QUEST: What -- I guess none of you want to touch the currency.
You want to touch the currency, Stan?
STANLEY FISCHER, VICE CHAIRMAN, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE: Yes, you know, exchange rates are changing to reflect what's going on in these -- in the
European bloc and in the United States. That's fully appropriate.
I think if we were both blasting ahead to higher growths, you'd be telling the rest of the world, ooh, you've got inflationary problems.
Wouldn't you like them to calm down?
Well, they're actually dealing with a -- two groups of -- the United States and the European Monetary Union, which between them will provide a fairly
stable background for the countries to deal with.
DIJSSELBLOEM: I think the key issue is certainly in Europe that we are expecting so much from the ECB, and I think also -- Christine has made the
point over and over again -- perhaps we should expect a little less from the central banks and a little more from the politicians.
And I certainly, as a politician from Europe, know for a fact that that's true.
When I look across Europe, I see major differences between countries now and it basically proves that in those countries that have their house in
order, to quote you, that they can pick up economic growth that they can get things done and that they should look less as the central bank. I
think that is the key.
QUEST: The different economic fortunes of the U.S., the Eurozone and Japan, it was a big talking point throughout the course of the year.
It brings us to number nine and the European Central Bank and the prospect of Plan B -- or, in this case, Avenue B. With deflation on its doorstep,
growth just about stagnant and a worsening economic position, everybody was asking when was the ECB going to act. It gave rise to the phrase,
"unconventional measures, non-traditional economics," which had us thinking of "Stomp."
MARIO DRAGHI, PRESIDENT, ECB: The governing council is unanimous in its commitment to using, also, unconventional instruments.
QUEST (voice-over): The more unconventional the instrument, the more skill you need to use it. And no one knows this better than the cast of "Stomp."
JASON MILLS, "STOMP" CAST MEMBER: You have a completely different skill set that you have to develop for each instrument. So, as you're developing
it, you're discovering what you can do with the instrument.
QUEST (voice-over): Like these performers, the ECB must be precise, sure- footed, calculated.
MILLS: We're balancing the stuff where we have to hit very specific marks and then -- but also being willing to just throw caution to the wind and
just try something out in a given moment where that's not too gigantic of a risk.
QUEST (voice-over): The European Central Bank already knows about handling high stakes. Take the LTRO: two rounds of long-term loans to banks in
late 2011 and early 2012. It helped trample down bond yields.
Then came the OMT: outright monetary transactions. Draghi swept in again in August 2012. While the stock markets jumped, Draghi faced mixed
DRAGHI: Are we satisfied for that? I think to say the least, the jury is still out.
QUEST: The drumbeat of possible deflation or "lowflation," as inflation lies well below target, the shaking rhythm of growth, just 0.2 percent in
the last quarter and the alarming sound of nearly 12 percent unemployment.
MILLS: You can feel that exact moment when the audience realizes what we've done, when they realize that that -- that's how this is going to end.
QUEST (voice-over): Even as they bring in each new instrument, the central bank must also plot its exit. And the trick is finding the right time.
MILLS: Timing is probably the single most important thing in our show.
LAGARDE: It will be about timing, it will be about execution, it will be about communication.
QUEST (voice-over): For now, the ECB show must go on, at least until the real economy start to perform.
QUEST: Of course, the ECB show did go on, which brings us to number eight and as "Forbes" magazine suggests, the eighth most powerful man in the
world, Mario Draghi, president of the European Central Bank.
Throughout the year, Mr. Draghi and the ECB continually said they were ready to act, to rescue the Eurozone from the specter of deflation. The
problem is the situation seemed to get worse and it often looked like there was more talk than action. The much-vaunted and anticipated quantitative
easing hasn't arrived yet.
In other words, it was all a bit like "Waiting for Godot."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"VLADIMIR" (PATRICK STEWART): How does it hit me?
"ESTRAGON" (IAN MCKELLEN: How would I know?
QUEST (voice-over): Knights of the Realm Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart in Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot," the play about waiting for someone
who never arrives: the story of promises unfulfilled.
Often it seems like the Eurozone is waiting for Godot and sometimes the policymakers sound like the players on the stage.
ANGEL GURRIA, SECRETARY-GENERAL, OECD: There's only so much the central banks can do.
JACK LEW, US TREASURY SECRETARY: If the efforts to boost demand are deferred for too long, there's a risk that the headwinds get stronger.
QUEST: Beckett's play seems almost made for the Eurozone, deferring actions until, finally, nobody knows what's really happening.
MARK NIXON, DIRECTOR, BECKETT INTERNATIONAL FOUNDATION, UNIVERSITY OF READING: So, there's a sense of stagnation during the waiting.
QUEST: Ah, stagnation. Where have I heard that before? In the Eurozone: zero growth in the second quarter.
NIXON: Doubt and uncertainty is rife throughout the play.
QUEST: Doubt and uncertainty; waiting for Draghi. Just look at the euro, waiting for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It might have been that the ECB could have done more earlier.
QUEST: Just like Beckett's play, the ECB has introduced props -- carrots to help banks lend, with targeted long-term financing. The only problem
is, few are nibbling.
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISOR, ALLIANZ: It will take further steps. It will do more come October. But it will not be sufficient.
NIXON: There is, obviously, very little dramatic action. So the play, essentially, is made up of language, of language games, of dialogue.
QUEST: Like Beckett's play, there's no shortage of dialogue in the Eurozone.
As a new commission takes office, will that change as fresh actors take to the stage?
PIERRE MOSCOVICI, E.U. ECONOMIC COMMISSIONER: What the next commission's mandate is about is jobs and growth through investment.
QUEST: With 11.5 percent of their audience unemployed, there are lessons to be learned from Samuel Beckett's play. You may wait for Godot, but you
dare not wait for growth.
"VLADIMIR": Will that pass the time?
"ESTRAGON": It would have passed in any case.
(END VIDEOTAPE) QUEST: After the break, number seven and we remember the man they called Big Mustache.
QUEST (voice-over): Welcome back to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, where we're looking at the top 10 in 2014.
Number seven: the number of years that Christophe de Margerie was the chief executive of the French oil company Total before he was tragically
killed in a plane crash in Moscow.
Mr. de Margerie was not only a colorful figure in the energy world, he was a leader globally in the business community. Jim Boulden now looks back at
the life and work of Christophe de Margerie.
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the staid world of the oil majors, Christophe de Margerie's big personality, blunt manner and mustache
He had been at Total for 40 years, the last seven as its CEO. And he was a strong advocate of the oil business and, for Big Oil, to better explain
itself to customers, us.
CHRISTOPHE DE MARGERIE, CEO, TOTAL (2007-2014): We need to tell them that first this money is important for investing, growing and face the crucial
demand. That is for the long term; otherwise, it will be an additional concern for everybody.
But to tell them what's going on today is we have to be again much more explicit, much more transparent.
BOULDEN (voice-over): De Margerie was on one of his many trips to Moscow in October when his private jet collided with a snowplow on takeoff,
killing him and the three members of the crew. Authorities say the snowplow driver was drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Christophe de Margerie dedicated his life to the promotion of the company in France and throughout the world
and to its 100,000 employees. And as he would have wished, Total has to continue to move forward.
BOULDEN (voice-over): De Margerie made no apologies for Total's ties to Russia's vast oil and natural gas sector and said the West should stop
trying to isolate Russia, despite problems in Ukraine, saying instead Europe should work with Russia to make its deliveries to the West more
reliable, noting there were no sanctions against Russian oil and gas.
DE MARGERIE: No embargo. Today we need gas; we need oil. We need to continue supporting our skills. Our energy is important in this country as
many others. So until further notice I insist business as usual.
BOULDEN (voice-over): In 2009, de Margerie was the petroleum executive of the year. But three years earlier, he was charged by the U.N. during the
oil for food scandal over allegations Total illegally bought oil from Iraq when the country was under U.N. sanctions. He denied the charges and was
acquitted in 2013.
In a separate case, Total paid a fine to the U.S. government to settle allegations that the company paid bribes to win oil and gas contracts in
Iran. And Total continues to face legal trouble in France over corruption allegations in Iran from the 1990s.
De Margerie was thrilled that North America was using new technologies to extract more oil and so lengthening the time that hydrocarbons remain
dominant and was annoyed that his home country, France, banned fracking.
DE MARGERIE: So the end of the oil and gas industry is not anymore in front of us, does not exist. In 10 years, I think it is.
BOULDEN (voice-over): De Margerie said fracking gives the world more oil so more time to develop renewables, though his response to his
environmental critics, quote, "I'm not in charge of the planet." -- Jim Boulden, CNN, London.
QUEST: Christophe de Margerie died before the current turmoil in the oil market. When I spoke to him in Davos at the beginning of the year, oil was
around $100 a barrel. I asked his views on U.S. fracking, the shale oil revolution, which has disrupted international supply. Christophe de
Margerie didn't hold back.
DE MARGERIE: I think we should change words. I mean fracking is an awful word. And sometimes -- and I'm serious -- I mean sometimes we use words,
we start by definition, killing what we're doing. At the same time, we have --
QUEST: Well, give me a better word; give me a better one.
DE MARGERIE: Massaging, massaging -- developing gently. Trying to get the oil out of the ground. Why we are doing this.
QUEST: There's nothing gentle about fracking -- I've been to Texas and seen it.
DE MARGERIE: Well, you've seen different things. But if you see what Total is doing, you will see it's clean, it's acceptable; the proof, it's
there. The thing is --
QUEST: I can feel my e-mail box bursting with critics saying you're wrong -- it's causing earthquakes, it's causing pollution of water. I can just
feel the angst coming back.
DE MARGERIE: Nobody will always accept except that they are pleased to see the price of energy low. They are pleased to see the price of interest
low. They are pleased to see the growth of the United States to restart, thanks to low price of energy. Thanks to shale gas.
QUEST: But --
DE MARGERIE: Fracking, shale gas, clean, clean development of shale gas.
QUEST: Today here at Davos the most important subject is inequality. The pope's representative spoke about it. You're a CEO; you have the power to
start to reverse the imbalance in inequality.
DE MARGERIE: I agree.
QUEST: Do you?
DE MARGERIE: I agree, it's part of our responsibility. By the way, I was surprised to -- I was there when the envoy of the pope elected to call him
Pape Francois and not Pope Francis -- but it is the same.
It's true that he asked us and forced us to go back to the previous important message we had to deliver in Davos -- inequality unacceptable.
People only part of our system is unacceptable. At the same time, we have to cope with all the rest. We have to cope with environment, we have to
cope with climate change and we have to cope with acceptability.
QUEST: Christophe de Margerie, talking to me nearly a year ago in Davos.
As our tour of the top 10 stories continues, we go from East to West. That's next.
QUEST (voice-over): Welcome back to "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The Top 10," where we've now reached 6th Avenue, also known as Avenue of the Americas.
And this is a very fitting place for our next guest.
Carnival is the largest cruise line in the world and the Americas is its largest market. For the company itself, 2014 saw the end of one of its
worst incidents, the sinking of the Costa Concordia. The ship has now been raised, towed away and is being scrapped.
I discussed Costa Concordia and the growth, incidentally, of the entire cruise industry with Carnival's chief executive on board his ship in Miami.
ARNOLD DONALD, CEO AND PRESIDENT, CARNIVAL CORPORATION: It was a tragic accident and those that suffered will always be in our hearts. The other
part of it is that now it's with the salvage company. It was a major technical achievement to right the ship and to float it into Genoa. The
Italian people are proud of that technical accomplishment.
And then, we'll take into the future what we take -- whether it's a minor accident or a serious accident, such as the Concordia -- what we take from
all of those, which is the learnings that will help us make cruising even safer in the future.
These are extremely rare occurrences in marine, the loss of life, and we want to make certain that they become even more rare in the future.
QUEST: It was an extraordinary salvage operation. You must have followed it closely.
DONALD: Oh, yes, of course we followed it closely and we're involved obviously in evaluating the various engineering firms that participated in
the salvage operation. But it was extraordinary. It was actually a massive technical achievement. Nothing like that has ever been attempted
before, let alone successfully completed.
QUEST: And who paid for the salvage?
DONALD: In the end, we all paid for it in the end. You pay for it because you lost a ship. There's obviously a reputational damage that the brand
suffered temporarily. They're fully recovering from that; they're moving on.
We have a new ship, the Costa Diadema, that'll be named in November, and the brand is moving forward. Bookings are up and booking curves are
further out. So, the brand has moved on. But there's always a price to pay.
QUEST: What have you learned from incidents like Concordia that you, as the chief execute, are now implementing across the fleet?
DONALD: First of all, Richard, there are no incidents like Concordia. Those are extremely rare. But what we learn from every incident, whether
it's a minor or a very serious one -- and it may not be what you learn exactly related to the incident itself, but you look at everything. You
just go back in and you look at everything.
So, what we've done, what we do differently now is --
QUEST: But have you discovered anything that might have been a cultural or a systemic problem that led to that?
DONALD: We discovered things that clearly, not having an experience like that, because they are so rare, that you learn from, one of the things was
the many languages onboard. So, when it was time to muster, we have a lot of language skilled people onboard, but getting those organized in a
fashion where communication is seamless and whether there's areas we can improve in that.
QUEST: As you look now at the reputational damage when you took over, how have you, then, worked forward to improve things?
DONALD: Well, first of all, we've had extraordinary recovery in both brands. The Carnival brand -- YouGov just had a national poll that came
out that listed Carnival as the number one brand in the United States in terms of change in positive reputation in the last six months.
QUEST: What does that tell you? What does that tell you about both holiday makers and the ability to change? Because everything I've ever
discovered in my coverage of the travel and tourism industry is that it bounces back. Whether it's a tsunami, a riot, an earthquake, a disaster,
it bounces back.
DONALD: It tells you many things. First of all, it tells you how fundamentally safe and how enjoyable these activities are because these are
rare incidents that occur.
Number two, I think it tells you what a great value that the holiday or vacation for the money is in cruising and, in our case, that we have nine
of the world's leading cruise lines.
QUEST: From 6th Avenue to 5th Avenue, and the one thing that stands in between is this large body of ice. Ice was much on the agenda in 2014, as
more and more people talk the Ice Bucket Challenge, rich and famous, old and young, across the globe, everybody was dousing themselves in cold
My challenge was given to me by the man you just heard, the chief exec of Carnival Cruise Lines. All in all, it makes for a chilly number five.
DONALD: I accept your ALS Ice Bucket Challenge. And in turn, I challenge Richard Quest with CNN. Bring it on.
QUEST: I accept! Before I actually do the challenge, the first question we have to establish: jacket on or jacket off?
On or off?
All right. The ons have it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The microphone.
QUEST: Shelly Palmer is here.
SHELLY PALMER, AUTHOR, "DIGITAL WISDOM": Oh, glasses on, glasses off?
A bucket of ice water.
QUEST: Oh, Mother!
QUEST: That was a lot colder than it looks. Come to think of it, we've been outside quite a long time in our tour of New York. Time to get into
the warmth and there's the public library -- after the break.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR AND REPORTER HOST OF "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" SHOW: Welcome back to "Quest Means Business." Our top ten in
2014. I'm still on Fifth Avenue but I'm not at 41st Street for our number four. It's at the New York Public Library, and it's "Reading for Leading."
Throughout the year we've been asking the biggest names in business and economics, which books they're reading and why. We've had an entire range
- factual, historical, whimsical. They read the lot. But the question's always the same - what are you getting out of it? And how is it helping
you in your daily life? In a moment, the governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney. First let's delve into the library of Christine Lagarde of
CHRISTINE LAGARDE, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: At the moment actually I'm reading a really nice good book by a French woman who's
been living in China for the last 40 years -- Caroline Puel, and it's called "Les Trente Glorieuses of China" - the 30 last glorious years of
China. And it's a fantastic story of how China pulled out of where it was over the last 30 years.
DENG XIAOPING, FORMER CHINESE REVOLUTIONARY AND STATESMAN (DECEASED), in NATIVE LANGUAGE: Let some people get rich first. Poverty is non-
XI JINPING, GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF CHINA: China will be firm in deepening reform and opening up the country wider to the world.
QUEST: What are you learning from that?
LAGARDE: What I'm learning is that one has to be patient, that people matter enormously.
LAGARDE: It's very rare for the IMF to say that, but on this occasion I will say it. It is good to increase the fiscal deficit when it's a matter
of curing the people.
LAGARDE: And that when there is political drive, determination and a strategy, things change.
LAGARDE: The IMF has to intervene in times of crisis, and when we do so, we take all the precautions we can and then we try to catalyze additional
LAGARDE: When you look at what Xi Jinping has contributed to his country and the way in which he's done it, it gives me courage.
QUEST: It gives you courage.
LAGARDE: Patience and determination.
QUEST: So, are you online reader, a tablet or do you like the crinkle of the page?
LAGARDE: I love the crinkle of the page. I love turning them.
MARK CARNEY, GOVERNOR, BANK OF ENGLAND: I'm reading a novel called "The Orenda" by Joseph Boyden who is a Canadian metis writer which is set - it's
in the Huron Iroquois warriors in - well, centuries ago. "From both shores of this wide river that the Huron call the Snake, Iroquois, dozens and
dozens of them, pour into canoes hidden carefully in the tall grasses. Some are already in the water and closing in on a few of our stragglers. I
watch as their archers in front pull back on their bows and release. The arrows cutting through the air and striking some closer to the Huron
paddlers. Within moments, the Iroquois surround the canoes, slowed by the wounded and begin hacking at them with their hatchets. "
QUEST: What are you getting out of it?
CARNEY: What am I getting out of it? I'm getting out of it the similarities across cultures in terms of - the sort of spiritual
similarities across cultures because it comes across in the book. "Despite the darkness that constantly threatens this place in which I find myself, I
have had the immense privilege of living amongst a people that once craven and thrown to the basest of appetites and more generous and even gentle
than any I've ever had the pleasure to know."
QUEST: Are you a reader online, on tablet or do you like the crinkle of the page.
CARNEY: I like the crinkle of the page. But like you, Richard, I end up traveling so I'm tablet-reliant.
QUEST: St. Marks Place on the corner of Third Avenue. So we're up to number three in our countdown. This has always been one of the more
colorful parts of the city. After all, Jack Kerouac wrote here in the 1950s, Jimi Hendrix lived and played here in the 70s, and Trotsky developed
many of his revolutionary ideas during the first World War right here. This year saw the centenary of The Great War. And as we discovered in our
series "War of Invention," many of the things we take for granted today have their beginnings in the War.
QUEST: What keeps it together?
E. FEIBUSCH: It's exactly the fact that one fits into the other one and that - and they can't move out.
QUEST: When a zip is just right, everything comes together in perfect harmony.
E. FEIBUSCH: It is so easy. It makes life so much easier.
QUEST: Eddie Feibusch should know. At 91, he's been selling zips for more than 70 years.
E. FEIBUSCH: Since December 1941, Pearl Harbor Day - December 7th on a Sunday morning.
QUEST: Do you think zipper was one of the world's great inventions?
E. FEIBUSCH: It sure is.
QUEST: A great invention with a difficult start in life. In the years leading up to the First World War, several inventors had tried to market
similar products. By 1914, a Swedish engineer, Gideon Sundback, was putting the final touches to the modern zipper design. He called it the
ROBERT FRIEDEL, AUTHOR, "ZIPPER -- AN EXPLORATION IN NOVELTY": World War I gave this brand new product the first chance to come up with some markets
that they can actually depend on. A tailor in New York City came up with the idea for a money belt that he thought he might be able to sell to
soldiers and sailors headed off to war. And that was the first major successful order for the zipper.
QUEST: The growing role of aviation in the Great War created another opportunity.
FRIEDEL: These are open, drafty, cold open-cockpit aircraft, so the need for some kind of warm, secure clothing encourages a few cover people to
come up with a design that would use this new fastener.
QUEST: The First World War finally got the zip industry moving. In the 1920s, B.F. Goodrich, a rubber company, started using them in boots and
galoshes and were the first to coin the name 'zipper.' By the 1930s, function was turning to fashion -- from men's suits to women's girdles.
It's all in a day's work for the Feibusch family. Nowadays, Eddie's son Jeff manages the business.
JEFF FEIBUSCH, VICE PRESIDENT, ZIPPERSTOP.COM: We have millions upon millions of different styles and colors of zippers.
QUEST: How many lime green zippers can you reasonably sell?
J. FEIBUSCH: I'd say, on a good day, couple hundred. They all move.
QUEST: And this is the granddaddy zip of them all. It's for a hot air balloon and it measures some six meters in length. Astonishingly, they
sell in the winter five or six of them every day. Did you ever think seventy -
E. FEIBUSCH: Three.
QUEST: -- three years ago - did you ever think that you would be spending your life with zips?
E. FEIBUSCH: I don't know. I can't answer. I didn't have all good years - it wasn't that easy. But I survived the bad times and I lived through
the good times.
QUEST: Just like the zipper itself - slowly and gently. Through the good times and bad. Do you like buttons?
E. FEIBUSCH: (LAUGHTER). That's not fair.
E. FEIBUSCH: I'm in the zipper business, and I think it's the greatest thing.
QUEST: Eddie Feibusch showing us the importance of knowing and understanding from where things come. In a moment, number two on our list
and we learn some interesting things about chocolate.
QUEST: Welcome back to "Quest Means Business" where we're looking at the top ten in 2014. We're nearly at the end. We're on 2nd Avenue, so it's
time for number two and time to refuel with some coffee and of course some chocolate. During the year we took time to look at the plight of those
people who grow the essential ingredient for chocolate - cocoa itself. It was part of CNN's commitment to The Freedom Project. I went to the Ivory
Coast and saw for myself how the farmers try to make a living.
QUEST: It is a supreme irony that the chocolate bar we take for granted at a price we don't mind paying is rarely seen in the Ivory Coast, even in the
capital. There are chips and wafers and cookies and crisps of all types, but there's no chocolate, even though the stuff comes from here. Only 130
kilometers from the capital is the village of Koadio Yakro (ph). I talked to farmers about what's now a depressingly familiar tale of an impoverished
lifestyle. But nothing brings home the inequity of cocoa-nomics than farmers who've never seen, let alone tasted, the products that rely on
their daily toil.
These farmers have been growing beans for decades. They're about to get their first taste of chocolate. You have never tried chocolate?
Male 2: Where would we find it?
QUEST: It turned out not one person in this group had tasted chocolate.
Male: It's good. It's good to eat!
QUEST: That is your cocoa! Jose Lopez who runs the factory that makes the Kit Kat is speeding through the capital of Abidjan. He's on his way to
meet the First Lady. It's time for government and chocolate maker to come face to face. Dominique Ouattara is the wife of the President, and
determined that the government ends child labor. This is a delicate dance of cocoa-nomics. The government needs Nestle's investment, Nestle needs
the government's cocoa, and both have to find a solution like never before.
DOMINIQUE OUATTARA, FIRST LADY OF THE IVORY COAST, SPEAKING IN FRENCH: I think that it's important that we make our rural communities understand
that they must no longer use children in their plantations. We have carried out a significant awareness campaign and I think we'll get results.
QUEST: These children are eight and 12 years old. Just saying that children of this age shouldn't be wielding machetes in the forest
completely ignores the culture of the country. These children are helping out on the family farm. This sort of work goes on because children are
slaves to necessity - slaves to poverty. If market forces constrain the price of cocoa, then education will be the main long-term weapon in the
fight against child labor. Euphrasie Aka has been working inside some of the poorest rural communities for 12 years.
EUPHRASIE AKA, NATIONAL COORDINATOR, INTERNATIONAL COCOA INITIATIVE, SPEAKING IN FRENCH: My dream is to see a flourishing cocoa community in
which the rights of children are respected. To give each child the opportunity to go to school and to be able to make a choice tomorrow.
Either follow their parents into the cocoa culture or do something else as long as it supports their parents.
QUEST: Education. Everyone is building schools, government NGOs and the chocolate companies Nestle have built 23 and there are 17 more in the
pipeline. What do you think when you see what is - what is it?
JOSE LOPEZ, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NESTLE: What I think is that the effort is incredibly important but also incredibly hard. And what I feel
when I am here is I cannot think but the need to really focus on the long- term. And we will not sacrifice the long-term for short-term gains.
QUEST: But you don't think putting more of your corporate money to building even more schools or building even more roads or just downright
subsidizing farmers so that they can raise themselves out of the poverty trap? This company made $11 billion Swiss francs profit.
LOPEZ: It will not work. The reality of the country is the reality that there is which you have seen. You cannot just simply transform this
production process by throwing money somewhere. We need to build capacity in those farmers to do a better job to improve their yield to protect their
crops from diseases. We need to see prosperity entering into these villages, and to do that, it will take time and the patience that will be
needed, we have.
QUEST: You've seen the report. How do we maintain that momentum for change? Because there is a view that things are moving forward. How do we
keep - briefly to start with - how do we keep it moving forward.
NICK WEATHERILL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL COCOA INITIATIVE: Thank you, Richard. Well, you're right. Things are moving forward and I think
your film accurately shows that there's good grounds for being encouraged. Having said that, there's no room for complacency because particularly with
child labor, as you mentioned, there are hundreds of thousands of children who are at risk and who need to be assisted. So, the momentum does need to
be kept up. I think the reassuring fact is that the companies themselves -
WEATHERILL: -- the writing really is on the wall. If they don't make cocoa farming a better and more prosperous livelihood, then farmers are
going to leave and they're going to go to other farming crops.
QUEST: Guy Ryder, at the ILO, the issue we discovered there is, yes, children will have to work in the fields - that's an economic reality -
it's really a question of how they do it, what they do and the education they get whilst also doing it. Can you accept that at the ILO?
GUY RYDER, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL LABOR ORGANIZATION: Now we're very clear that the children should not be at work, certainly not in some
of the conditions that you've shown in the report just now. There are - we know what works. This is the interesting thing now. We've actually
reduced child labor in the world by about one-third since the beginning of this century. We know what works. And what works are multiple inputs from
the industry - in this case the chocolate industry, from governments, also from the communities themselves because as you have indicated, when you
work (AUDIO GAP) environments where people actually think it's OK -
RYDER: -- for kids to be at work, you've got a problem. You've got to win hearts and minds around there. The community end of the thing - it's a
very important handle on success.
QUEST: So, Ben, how do we keep the momentum up? What - I mean, because clearly there - a change is now taking place - a view is moving forward.
BEN SKINNER, CO-FOUNDER, TOWER INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT: I think one thing that has to be consolidated is the idea that it is in these companies, in
these massive chocolate companies' best interests - best economic interests - to actually clean up their supply chains. When you and I were at Davos
this year, everybody was talking about 'my supply chain, my supply chain.' That's a radical change from a couple of years ago when it was 'my company,
QUEST: Do you have a role in this, Bryson, in the sense do companies respond to the pressure - the external pressure - that you believe or that
your organization puts forward?
BRYSON VOGELTANZ, CHIEF STEWARD, END IT MOVEMENT: Well we believe that the average person, whether it's in the United States or around the world,
first needs to be made aware, and your documentary did a fantastic job of that. But the reality is still there's millions of people - millions of
educated people that don't even know this exists. So how can they? They may not even know that this is happening in their chocolate.
QUEST: After the break, these statues speak to our number one.
QUEST: And so to our number one. The subway's brought me to Christopher Street in the West Village. Our number one story in the corporate world
was the Apple chief exec Tim Cook announcing he's gay. The first chief exec of a major company to come out of the closet. In an op-ed in
"Bloomberg Business Week," Tim Cook wrote, "If hearing that the chief exec of Apple is gay can help someone struggling to come to terms with who he or
she is, then it's worth the trade-off with my own privacy."
Tim Cook's words would have resonated nowhere more than here in the West Village at the Stonewall Inn - one of the first flashpoints for the gay
rights movement 45 years ago. One man with his own reflections on Tim Cook's decision to come out is Lord John Browne, the former chief executive
of BP. He spent most of his corporate life in the closest and was outed amidst scandal. I asked him what he made of it.
JOHN BROWNE, FORMER CEO OF BP: I was very pleasantly surprised. It's very important to have great role models, leaders who are ready to say that
they're gay, and people in very successful and powerful global positions. And Tim Cook qualifies on all those headings.
QUEST: In many ways - we were talking earlier on this program, CEOs of oil companies or widget companies are one thing, but a sexy, inspirational
company that people look up to globally - do you think it makes a difference?
BROWNE: I do. I think that more people who are aware of Apple than they are of an oil company globally and they identify with his products which
are very good, and therefore they'll identify - they'll know who Tim Cook is. And in particular, LGBT people around the world will be able to say
we've got a role model in the top of corporate life who's a successful man.
QUEST: The - when - Tim Cook now goes in and travels to countries where, for instance, being gay might be illegal or restricted. We only need to
think of Nigeria, Uganda, we need to think of Russia, possibly China, and will it - what would you imagine the reaction from government leaders would
be? Will he still be met and fated (ph) by Goodluck Jonathon and Putin and Medvedev?
BROWNE: I believe so and I very much hope so. I think when you're a CEO, of course you have to be clear about being an authentic leader to give
people an example, but equally you're the carrier of a corporation's products and reputation services. And that's what they're looking at, and
I believe that won't change. Then if they want to do business, they'll do business.
QUEST: We talked earlier this year about how corporations are more advanced in the acceptance of diversity in the workplace. You believe that
to be firmly the case, than say, for example, politics or other societal groups?
BROWNE: Well I think generally corporations can have the means whereby to make it possible for people to be included. They have to do something
about it, and they are very advanced machines, if you will - human machines - to get things done. Politics has a very mixed record. It's terrific in
the U.S. and in my home country, the U.K., where a lot of politicians are out and they're very clear that they stand for inclusion. So that's been a
big advance over the last decade or so. But corporations are very important to make big change.
QUEST: What now needs to happen in your view, Lord Browne, to build on this sort of announcement? Because, we can arguably say each CEO or
chairman of board or minister that comes out, advances a little bit further. But what would you now like to see?
BROWNE: Well, I would like a corporation's leaders in particular to be very clear that they stand for inclusion of LBGT people and to send that
signal to measure the impact of their signal and to point to role models to make people feel comfortable and secure - safe to come out. People have
asked me, you know, what would it have taken for me to come out on the job. I would have said my fears would have kept in the place. Although if there
were an example like Tim Cook, it probably would have sent electric shock through me, and I might've thought about it again.
QUEST: And that's "Quest Means Business" the Top Ten. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Who know what 2015 will bring? But as always, whatever
you're up to in the year ahead, (RINGS BELL) I hope it's profitable.
(END QUEST SHOW)