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At This Hour

Movie Hits Theaters Despite Threats; CDC Lab Technician Possibly Expsed to Ebola; Discussion of Crashed F-16 in ISIS- Controlled Area

Aired December 25, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Have a wonderful holiday, my friend.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: You too. You too.

BANFIELD: We're going to take things away. We've got a lot on the agenda as well. Thank you for that, Randi.

It is the film that could potentially start a cyber war. It's called "The Interview." but you know that. You might also know it hits the big screen today despite Sony's fears and North Korea's threats.

So here's the really big question. Is this movie any good? Is it? We're going to talk to you about that and talk to the moviegoers in just moments.

The Centers for Disease Control with some proverbial eggnog on its face now that a worker may have actually accidentally been exposed to Ebola. What? How does that happen?

It's just the latest safety problem at the CDC. What's going on at the nation's most important and dangerous labs? We've got a report for you.

And didn't find everything you were looking for under your tree in the pre-holiday shopping either? Guess what? You just might be in luck. There are some mega-, megadeals to be had tomorrow that you cannot afford to miss.

You know what? They're not your everyday after Christmas sales either. We're talking almost everything off. It's all now.

Hi everybody. Merry Christmas. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. So nice to be with you today. John Berman and Michaela Pereira are off with their families today.

We have all those stories I just told you about and a whole lot more ahead this hour. Let's start with this one, a second-rate comedy turned geopolitical lightning rod and today, merry Christmas day, after a massive hack attack, a lockout by major theaters and even some prodding by the White House, the movie now famously called "The Interview" has finally hit big screens and small screens, too.

Leading man Seth Rogen and director Evan Goldberg dropped in at a screening early today in L.A. at one of about 300 independently owned theaters that have agreed to show the controversial film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH ROGEN, ACTOR: If it wasn't for theaters like this and people like you guys, this literally would not be happening right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The salty Christmas language, how about that?

Raising the curtain is not without risk, folks, because he movie is about a fictitious plot to assassinate North Korea's dictator. It has certainly sparked warnings, not just from those hacking North Koreans, but also by the FBI of possible retribution by supporters of Pyongyang, including online hacks and even as far as criminal violence.

Rosa Flores joins me now, outside a theater in Manhattan that is going to be showing, if not already -- I think maybe actually the lights have probably gone off on that one.

So you've seen the people who showed up early to take in this movie. What are they saying about it?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The first thing they say, Ashleigh, is they hope they laugh, because let's not forget that this is a comedy, after all.

But take a look at the marquee because a lot of people didn't think this movie would make a marquee in the United States. But now we know that more than 300 theaters around the country like this one -- it's an independent theater, a small theater -- are going to be showing this film.

Now This particular theater has seven showings today. You can see the movie poster right here. This is fresh off the presses. It just actually went up. You pay $12, you can go into this theater.

Here is one of the fascinating things, Ashleigh. People here say they want to laugh really hard, and they hope they can do that with their $12 at the door. And then they say this is part of what they say is a patriotic duty. There's support for freedom of speech.

Now I talked to a very interesting couple. I want you to hear what the husband had to say about buying the tickets at home. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ROSENZWEIG, SAW "THE INTERVIEW" IN THEATER: When we ordered the tickets, we ordered it online, and my wife decided that maybe I should use my credit card rather than hers over this issue. But I think it's pretty unlikely as well.

It takes a lot of work to hack, and usually they hack central sources to do it. You can go after a corporation like Sony or other people. But to go after specific individuals who order tickets online is not worth it and not a lot of fun for hackers anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Of course because of the controversy surrounding this film, that's what some folks are talking about, possible hacks, possible attacks at theaters that are showing this film.

But, Ashleigh, like you heard, like that man said, a lot of people are a little worried about hacking. Others are using cash instead of using their credit card, just to be on the safe side.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: It's a good thing you mentioned that. We've got a security analyst coming up in a few moments who's going to talk about the security issues, not just the criminal violence threats but also the hacking threats.

While I've got you there, Rosa, I'm going to ask you to ask your photo journalist to sort of pan around for a moment, because yesterday I spoke with John Miller of the NYPD who said, yes, there are theaters in New York showing the movie, we will have a presence of the NYPD there.

Not like a massive SWAT presence -- we don't want to scare people -- but we want people to know they're safe. Did you see that evidence when you arrived there today?

FLORES: Take a look around. You can see that right now there's actually no one here at the box office, actually just one person. You don't see NYPD anywhere. You don't see a police presence. You don't see what you were just talking about moments ago.

But here is what we do know, Ashleigh. The FBI e-mailed this theater and other theaters around the country. They called the theaters. New York City police also made a presence here and why was the reason behind that?

Here is what happened. They're giving theaters information about how to identify suspects, how to identify suspect activity. They're giving them posters so they can put on some of these theaters letting people know what they should be looking for, the height and weight of a person, what they're wearing, specifics about vehicles so that they can report suspect activity.

So that's what we're seeing. Right now, we don't see NYPD around. It's been very safe, very quiet, people just wanting to go to the movies on Christmas Day.

BANFIELD: Maybe it's an issue of a lot of theaters finally deciding they were going to join the bandwagon. When you get hundreds and hundreds, the threat is somewhat perhaps diminished.

All right, Rosa, keep an eye on things and certainly give us the reviews after the moviegoers come out after watching the movie, Rosa Flores live on this Christmas Day. FLORES: Sounds good.

BANFIELD: You got the good assignment, too, my friend.

Rosa was just talking about this, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security issuing the joint bulletin last night out to all of those theaters-owners and also to law enforcement agencies around the country. And it's warning of those potential threats because of the release of this film.

The law enforcement sources tell CNN there have been no new threats from whomever it was sending out all that ugly and hostile language before.

I want to bring in our intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer. So, Bob, I suppose the question is I'm not sure which threat anyone should be more concerned about, the possibility of facing some criminal violence at a theater that decided to air this or the possibility of facing some cyber threat because we're all using our credit cards perhaps to buy the tickets, we're using our credit cards to go online and maybe watch the movie, and does that open the pipeline to being hacked?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Cyber threats is what we should be worried about. I don't think we're done with this with North Korea.

It's funny. After our interview yesterday I got a text from somebody at Homeland Security who said -- I was very critical of North Korea, and he said, uh-oh, you better watch your e-mail. It was funny.

I think it's really we have to worry about another cyber bomb. North Korea has no way to project power to the United States except going after us through the Internet.

BANFIELD: Yeah. But you know something, I always like to come back to that old adage -- there's strength in numbers. If there are virtually millions of people who either decide to go out and use their credit card to see this movie at a theater or download the movie from various different digital avenues, does it become a little harder to attack that army of consumerism?

BAER: I think we're -- you know, I think the big mistake in this is for Sony to have originally said anything about pulling the movie or the theaters. I think they should have just forged ahead, said, listen, if the theaters won't show it, we're going to put it online. And that's the way to defeat a dictatorship like North Korea is just go, put it online.

And we do have the First Amendment and freedom of speech. We do have to fight that at all levels. So for Google and Microsoft to put this out online is -- and these theaters is really sort of -- it is a patriotic act.

BANFIELD: Is it possible that if these hackers decide to do something more retributive and start rehabbing attacking whoever might be showing the movie or purchasing the movie online, does that perhaps open them up to increased pipelines of investigation, meaning they're sending themselves out there and putting themselves out there more and more and more, and it gets a little easier to be caught?

BAER: Well, they also make it more sophisticated, that they can mask these attacks, launch them from anywhere in the world, using different coding and the rest of it, and they can probably hide this. It's the anonymity in these attacks that make them so difficult to respond to.

But on the other hand, I think if you look to motivation, clearly they were upset about this movie. We all know they were. Who else could it be except North Korea?

BANFIELD: So one other quick question, I'm sure that you were looking at that live shot as I had Rosa Flores on just before you at a Manhattan theater, and despite the fact that NYPD mentioned, you know, look, this is all a work in progress, very last minute, the announcement of "The Interview" was just within, you know, the last day and a half.

Are you surprised that there wasn't a presence outside of at least that theater?

BAER: Well, I mean, there's always the possibility of physical violence, but the North Koreans really don't have a network in this country. That was sort of beyond their range.

And I think alerting the theaters, and there may have been somebody under cover, but there was -- exactly as you said, you can't send SWAT squads to these theaters and post them out front and scare people. And so I think this was handled at the right level.

Ultimately there's no way to protect a movie theater short of putting in metal detectors and what have you. So I think the response was right. And I'm just happy we've gotten through this so far.

BANFIELD: Ever since I was about 14 years old or so, I began to sleep in on Christmas, and I could not believe the number of people I actually saw going to a movie at 10:00 this morning on Christmas morning.

But I'm glad you woke up early in Irvine, California, to be on the show with us. Can you stick around?

BAER: Of course.

BANFIELD: Oh, lovely. Merry Christmas to you. I'll see you in a couple of minutes.

BAER: Merry Christmas.

BANFIELD: Bob Baer, live for us in California.

So, ahead @THIS HOUR, the United States says it was not ISIS, not by a long shot, the group that shot down a coalition plane, no. But that terror group certainly is claiming that they did that and they're also holding a Jordanian pilot captive.

So we're going to settle the score on this story and the rumors, coming up, the latest from the region in a moment.

And it's another uh-oh at the Centers for Disease Control, this time a lab tech may have been exposed to Ebola. Is there an internal safety problem going on there? Because once you hear the list of what's been going on there and the mistakes that have been made in just the last year, you may shake your head.

Back after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLONEL MARK BURNETT (ph): I'm Colonel Mark Burnett (ph), serving here in Kuwait. I'd like to wish a merry Christmas to my mother and my brother in Madison, Wisconsin. Merry Christmas everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YUSUF AL-KASABETH, FATHER OF CAPTURED PILOT (via translator): He is now in the hands of Islamic State fighters. I don't want to describe him as a hostage. He's a guest.

I asked them in the name of god and I ask for the dignity of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, to receive him as a guest and treat him well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That is hard to watch, the father of a Jordanian pilot, pleading with the people, with ISIS, those militants, to put mercy in their hearts and release his son back to him. Twenty-six-year-old Muath al-Kaseasbeh was captured yesterday when his plane went down during a mission over the self-proclaimed ISIS capital of Raqqa in Syria.

ISIS claimed that it had shot down that plane down but not so fast, United States military says, "Evidence clearly indicates" that militants did not take down that aircraft. U.S. Central Command adding this, "We will support efforts to ensure his safe recovery and will not tolerate ISIL's attempts to misrepresent or exploit this unfortunate aircraft crash for their own purposes."

Joining me live now, our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr and National Security Analyst and Former CIA operative, Bob Baer is back with us.

Barbara first to you, it seems like that the Americans are pretty quick to come out to clarify that they didn't shoot that plane down, that perhaps they don't have that kind of capacity. But then, of course, the question becomes is that propaganda, is it possible because what would happen with the coalition if they knew that there were capacities for ISIS to start fighting their pilots from the air?

BARBARA STARR, PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think everybody pretty much understands that it's a great likelihood that some ISIS fighters do have shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles. Is the U.S. put enough propaganda? Is the question perhaps is the U.S. really just flat out telling a bold lie? I don't think that they four-star commander of the U.S. Central Command would allow any statements to go out in his name, General Lloyd Austin, unless he was 100 percent sure of his facts.

Now, he is saying -- the statement went out in his name, he's saying that ISIS did not bring it down, they did not shoot it down. We doubled check and tripled check. Other military sources saying, that the regime, the Syrian regime did not shoot it down. The question is what did bring this plane down, was it the mechanical error, was it some type of pilot error situation, was there something else that brought it down. And how would they know, I mean, there so many ways they would know this, either the pilot made a mayday call or they were -- you know, they track a combat aircraft throughout a mission. They would -- might have seen something in terms of some sort of mechanical failure, some sort of radar that told them there was a problem with the plane.

I think it's very unlikely that the U.S. military put something out so adamant and so specific unless it was sure what it was talking about.

BANFIELD: Well, the Kingdom of Jordan certainly has a very sophisticated air force, so perhaps they've got that kind of technology and have shared it very quickly. Barb, I have a bit of a question for you about what the Americans said, "We will support efforts to ensure his safe recovery." There was a lot of video that accompany that hostage taking. And video in the past with those executions of journalists and hostages has been very helpful in determining location and even identities.

And we don't even have anybody masked, I mean, there are some people completely unmasked and crowing about this hostage grabbing. Is that something the Pentagon is talking about? Is that something they're using right now to try to track that hostage's whereabouts?

STARR: Well look, what we also know is typical operating procedure, Bob knows this better than anybody, when a combat aircraft is in action, there are intelligence assets that watch that aircraft throughout a mission. They saw where it went down. They couldn't get to the pilot because ISIS very quickly, these fighters were on him and grabbed him.

This is Raqqa, the problem is of course, there are no coalition personnel on the ground. This is the ISIS stronghold and ISIS knows it. So perhaps, they're not terribly afraid to show their faces. It's going to be very tough to get him back with any kind of brute force. There's always the option of trying to send in a rescue force but in the middle of ISIS-held territory, that may be a very tough proposition.

BANFIELD: So Bob, jump in there. It is hard enough to get the civilian hostages back, many of them presumably being held either in or around that stronghold of Raqqa. Is there a difference when the hostage is a soldier and then, while we're talking about that, not an American soldier?

BOB BAER, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: No, there's going to be no difference. Jordan is our ally in this, so we're going to do everything we can to get that pilot back. The problem is the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that the Islamic State has moved him some place secure without radios, that's difficult to see from overhead, you know, in a built up area for instance in Raqqa or even out on the dessert. And I think they're getting very good at this.

So, I think the chances of getting him back anytime soon are fairly remote, at least by a rescue. Now, the Jordanians do have the spiritual leader of the Islamic State, the true spiritual leader in jail in Jordan. Are they going to negotiate for his release? They may do that in fact, and we'll just have to wait and see.

BANFIELD: And I'm sure that will all be done under cloak and very, very quietly if it's done at all. I supposed that -- the question I have for you is when you said that that America will do everything it can. And again, we will support efforts to ensure his safe recovery. What exactly is that? What is everything we can?

BAER: Well, it would be -- it would have to be, of course a commandeo raid once they get a fair certainty they know where he is and send...

BANFIELD: In Raqqa though, or around Raqqam, a commander raid with American boots?

BAER: Let's don't ever forget Abbottabad, in 2011 it was in a Pakistani garrison town, we have incredible assets in bringing incredible amount of force to small area like that. And, you know, you send a couple hundred people in to like that in. We could probably do what -- the question always is intelligence. The military likes to go in what they call eyes on and they can actually see the hostage because they don't like to go into -- and take an empty building. And the chances of getting, as Barbara said, getting that intelligence is fairly remote to almost none.

BANFIELD: Barbara, we'd had some successes and some failures with this commando style raid to try to free hostages, and the most recent one, two hostages were killed. Does America -- and perhaps this is a question the Pentagon mulling about, but would they have the stomach for for losing American commandos to rescue a Jordanian pilot?

STARR: It's not really a question of whether the Pentagon has the stomach for U.S. military forces, Special Forces, they are part of this coalition. If the President of the United -- you know, it sound strike but it's actually true. If the President of the United States orders U.S. forces in to action, they go. That's what a coalition is all about. As Bob just said, these types of situation to get hostages back are very problematic from in intelligence point of view. You remembered several months ago, actually, we learned after the fact that U.S. commandos did go to Syria to try and rescue the American hostage, journalist, James Foley and others. They went to an area that they had -- they thought they had good intelligence that that's where he was. And the hostages had just been moved to short time ago -- or short time before that.

So, that just underscores how tough it is for a President of the United States make the decision. It is always on the basis of what the U.S. military recommending to him, the risks at hand, and the likelihood that they can achieve their goals, Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Tough conversation -- tough conversation to have on Christmas morning, sorry about that folks. This is difficult for everybody and certainly our hearts go to that family.

Barbara Starr, Bob Baer, Merry Christmas to both of you. Thank you.

BAER: Merry Christmas.

BANFIELD: Still ahead this hour, trouble at the Centers for Disease Control. The agency says one of its own technicians may have been exposed to Ebola. That is a big "uh-oh" and it's just the latest in a string of "uh-oh" at a place but shouldn't have so many "uh-oh". So, why is that happening? Story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Here we go again, CDC announcing that a technician and one of agencies, Atlanta labs, may have just been exposed to the Ebola virus.

The agency said in a written statement that a small amount of material from an experiment accidentally got transferred from one lab to another by mistake. That's right, mistake.

Joining me now are our Senior Washington Correspondent, Joe Johns. Hopefully with some answers, I know the phones aren't usually answered on Christmas but this is a pretty serious breach, how did it happen?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well in the interest of not over playing this, we're being told this is a very limited case and there's no reason risk to the general public, Ashleigh. We don't fully know how serious it is yet because we don't if anybody's gotten sick as a result of the accident, but if you look at it from the standpoint of whether proper procedures are being followed over at the CDC in Atlanta, it is a reason to be concerned because it shows how mistakes in handling the virus is still happening.

CDC says one of its technicians will have to be monitored for three weeks after possibly being exposed to the Ebola virus at one of the labs. This apparently happened on Monday, discovered on Tuesday. The CDC said in a written statement that a small amount of material from an experiment was mistakenly transferred from one lab to another and it might have contained live Ebola virus. CDC said, the technician has no symptoms of the illness. Others who entered the lab and had been contacted and will be assessed for possible exposure, but so far as CDC says only one person is going to need monitoring at this moment and they don't think anybody outside the lab could been exposed Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well that's good news for everybody outside the lab but certainly not great news...

JOHNS: Yes.

BANFIELD: ... for the technician and our hearts go out to you, as (inaudible) in Christmas if you're watching.

So before the break, Joe, just before you came up live, I said and wait until you hear the list, in case people have forgotten, there's kind of a list of things that have been going wrong at the CDC. Let me walk you through a little bit, back in June, a dozen of CDC workers exposed -- potentially exposed to anthrax, that's after the lab failed to, I guess, inactivate dangers bacteria before it was transferred to another lab.

Then there was the government investigation that found dangerous biological materials were stored in unlocked refrigerators, and the anthrax was believed to be transferred in an approved zip lock baggies.

I get it. I work in a business where we have human error, we're all people, we are fallible, but when you're talking about lethal consequences, it feels like the barometer should be much higher for them and this seen crazy, these errors.

JOHNS: Well, they seem crazy but when you think about it, it's pretty simple. You're transferring a live virus you think it's dead virus and it's not. I mean there was an outside investigation by the U.S Department of Agriculture on that anthrax situation which it found that those dangerous materials where stored in unlocked refrigerators, general lack of lab workers following safety protocols.

And the investigator said the anthrax was transferred actually in zip lock bags which are not obviously approved to carry such a materials. So...

BANFIELD: I would think they're not approved, you're right. That would be the most -- like I don't even use it for my kids for his sandwiches that's it.

JOHNS: I know. Sometimes you put vitamins in them but the head of the CDC acknowledge, right, at a congressional hearing and there was a congressional hearing on this, that there was a disturbing pattern and they've been trying to refine the protocols and make sure that people are following them, that I think at the end of the day, is going to be the answer, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I wish you a merry Christmas and thank you for joining me, Joe.

JOHNS: You too. Thanks.

BANFIELD: Thanks for working today. (inaudible) that we all got the assignment right? JOHNS: Right there it is.

BANFIELD: All right, Joe.

JOHNS: It's all good.

BANFIELD: Take care, it's all good.