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U.S. Helps in Search; Searching Debris Area; Submersibles Help in Recovery; Family of MH370 Passengers Understand the Pain; Other Options for Tracking Jets

Aired December 30, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

A grim mission unfolds off the coast of Borneo. Crews have located the wreckage of AsiaAir (sic) Flight 8501. It's about six miles from its flight path, where the plane vanished Sunday morning. Hospitals now bracing for the grim task of identifying the remains of the 162 people on board. No sign of survivors.

AirAsia's CEO was quick to reach out to the heartbroken families. Tony Fernandes tweeting, quote, "my heart is filled with sadness for all the families involved in QZ8501. On behalf of AirAsia, my condolences to all. Words cannot express how sorry I am."

Earlier this morning, we learned the Navy destroyer the USS Sampson has arrived in the Java Sea, but what had been its original mission, searching for wreckage and possible survivors, now turns to recovery.

As I said, that U.S. destroyer has arrived in the Java Sea and it is helping to search in recovery efforts. Crews aboard the USS Sampson are working closely with Indonesian authorities to provide any assistance need. CNN's Rene Marsh is following that part of the story for us.

Good morning, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION & GOVT. REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Not only is USS Sampson already in the area, we just got word this morning that a second U.S. ship has been dispatched to the area. We're talking about USS Ft. Worth. I want to tell you a little bit about the capability of USS Ft. Worth. We know it's a combat ship. It does have a helicopter on board, which would be handy as they continue to recover wreckage on the ocean's surface. You're looking at images of USS Ft. Worth and now images of USS Sampson.

Now, back to Sampson, which is already in the zone. We know that it usually carries two helicopters, also would be helpful in recovering debris. Also we know that once this search goes underwater, the U.S. could be asked to provide even more assets. Take a listen to what the Pentagon had to say just a couple of hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: As we've made very clear, we're ready to help in any way that we can. We have assisted in these kind of searches before, unfortunately, so we have some experience at this. As you may recall with the Malaysia Flight 370, we provided some towed pinger locators. These are underwater sort of passive sonar devices that are used to help try to detect the pinging of the black boxes. Those could be brought in. Again, we've got no request for that right now, but we're certainly preparing ourselves for the eventuality that they could be used. And we also have something called side scan sonar, which we also used with Malaysia Flight 370 to try to help find debris on the surface -- on the bottom surface of the ocean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: So listening there to the Pentagon, it is very clear that the U.S. role in the search and recovery effort could very well expand, talking about sonar equipment. Essentially what that would do is you'd want to bring that in because the heavier parts of the aircraft is sitting on the ocean floor. So that sonar equipment would help search crews find those heavier pieces of the aircraft and eventually bring that up.

Also, we talked about the black boxes. I could tell you, Carol, right now they are focused on lifting that debris from the ocean surface, but quickly the focus will turn to the black boxes because that holds a lot of critical answers. That tow pinger that he mentioned that is here in the United States would be very helpful in picking up those pings. Remember, 30 days roughly before that pinging sound stops.

COSTELLO: Is there a chance those black boxes will be brought to the United States for analysis?

MARSH: You know a spoke -- or been in contact with the NTSB this morning. We do know that at this point they are still in what they call a monitoring phase. They are watching everything that is unfolding.

We do know that two French investigators from the French equivalent of the NTSB already on the ground there in the region. Because this aircraft is a French product, French manufactured aircraft, it would make a lot of sense if the French investigators, you know, recovered the black boxes. We don't know exactly where they will go, but it looks like the NTSB would have a less prominent role here. The French investigators would have a more prominent role.

We know the engines, Carol, in part with a French manufacturer, designed by GE, an American company, so that could leave an open door to the NTSB getting involved in some way, shape or form.

COSTELLO: All right, I'm sure you'll keep us posted. Rene Marsh reporting live from Washington, thanks so much. Why did AirAsia Flight 8501 crash? It is the number one question

investigators hope to answer as they begin to recover the pieces of the airplane, now underwater off the coast of Indonesia. What's possible and what's not? Tom Foreman has that.

Hi, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

You know, basically when you look at the lay of the land here, where this thing has been found, there are indications that this could really step up in speed right now in terms of finding clues to what happened. One of the reasons is, when you talk about any kind of aircraft, helicopters reaching the location, not only do we have ships on scene able to do it, but the actual distance from the shore to this location is only about 99 miles from the nearest major hub up in here. That's really in strikable range.

Also, beyond that, and important to note is all of this, is the water depth. Remember, Air France, when it went down, they found debris after five, six days, but they didn't find the body, the parts of the airplane for almost two years, but that was much, much, much deeper water. Here the average depth is only 131 feet. Where this wreckage has been found so far, it's a little bit closer to 100 feet deep. So you're actually talking about a range here where, for all the advantages you might get from side scan sonar or from dragging seekers through the water to listen for the ping, which would definitely help, you're also even in the range of basic divers being able to go down and look at the wreckage. And there's some sense they've seen something down there already.

On top of which, when it's this shallow, if this thing hits the water as expected here and it went down, it doesn't have a long way to drift if you're talking about very heavy pieces. Yes, there are surface winds in this area because we're talking about right down in here, surface winds that are generally pushing off toward the east here. And, yes, if you look at the ocean currents up in that area, you have sort of the same effect. They're generally pushing off this direction. But if you're talking about 100 feet of water, Carol, you could find an awful lot of the evidence that you need to start reconstructing this in a fairly small area and fairly quickly. So all of that is in favor of getting at least answers for the airline, for the families, for all the people who want to know what happens. I think we're going to see developments very rapidly on this because of all those favorable conditions.

Carol.

COSTELLO: I hope you're right. Tom Foreman reporting live, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, now that debris has been found, searchers could soon turn their focus underwater as they try to figure out what brought down that plane. We'll talk more about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: The United States says it stands ready to help in any way possible to recover wreckage from AirAsia Flight 8501. That could include the use of submersibles. The Bluefin, seen here, was used in the search for the still missing Malaysia Airlines flight. But it isn't the only underwater vehicle capable of tracking a downed plane deep underwater. CNN's Gary Tuchman has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The names are intriguing. What they have potential to accomplish is amazing. The REMUS 6,000, the Orion, the TRITON XLS, the Dorado, they are all autonomous underwater vehicles and remotely operated vehicles. AUVs and ROVs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They'd be ideal if there's a black boxes. They are not a problem at all for an ROV to pick up, up it in a basket and recover it.

TUCHMAN: This is the TRITON XLS ROV based in Florida, connected to a ship by an umbilical cord. Then there are the AUVs, which are not contacted. This is the Orion, owned by the U.S. Navy, run by a company called Phoenix International. Vehicles like this send sound signals to the sea floor which paint a picture of what's on the bottom.

Then there is the REMUS 6,000, also an AUV. The team from Woods Hole, Massachusetts, has already met dramatic success, locating the wreckage of Air France Flight 447, two years after it crashed in the South Atlantic Ocean. The discovery only possible because of this AUV. This is the initial shot of the Air France debris captured by the REMUS 6000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can go up and down mountains that are up to 40 degrees in slope. They are very stable, so you get really good data, almost all the time.

TUCHMAN: Another AUV that could be used, the Dorado, based at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute in California, where CNN's Stephanie Elam visited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So this is a titanium pressure sphere. So this is good to 6,000 meters deep. And inside we have all this sonar electronics.

TUCHMAN: The other option is manned submarines or submersibles. This vehicle, that resembles a spaceship, is a manned submersible called the Johnson Sea Link based in Florida. This sub located wreckage in the Atlantic Ocean after the tragic explosion of the space shuttle Challenger in 1986.

TUCHMAN (on camera): This sub is about 24 feet long. It's also about 11 feet tall and it weighs about 28,000 pounds. It has enough oxygen and emergency provisions aboard for the people to survive underwater for up to five days.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): This sub is retired, though. But other subs that can go even deeper could be brought into action, along with AUVs and ROVs ready to assist if asked.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right, so let's talk more about the search for AirAsia Flight 8501. I'm joined by CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest and Tim Taylor, he's a sea operations and submersible specialist. Tim is also the president of Tiburon Subsea Systems, a company that specializes in ROVs and AUVs and underwater imagery.

Welcome to both of you.

So, Tim, I'll start with you. What kind of equipment will be used to recover the wreckage of 8501?

TIM TAYLOR, SEA OPERATIONS AND SUBMERSIBLES SPECIALIST: A lot of the similar equipment, but in this particular situation, we have the added ability to put divers in the water. So you'll have your sonar tools, whether they're towed sonar or autonomous vehicles, which are becoming more and more the tool for sonar, ROVs, but, again, not as robust as the segment we just saw because those are for really deep, deep stuff. When we're shallower, you don't need as much power. You have the ability to put smaller vehicles, which are much more transportable. We don't need to ship them across the world in big ships. They can be flown over on a plane and launched off a fishing boat.

COSTELLO: Do you think it would be relatively easy to find the black boxes?

TAYLOR: I would think so. Yes. The pingers are still going. They found it in time. The pingers are the big narrow down the search. I mean more debris so they can actually narrow down the pinger search, then the pinger, and find -- narrow down the pinger search. And then once you do that, you can pretty much find wreckage. It's a matter of time. Again, it's not going to happen overnight. The sonar searches take days, maybe weeks once they narrow down the pinger, but it's quite routine.

COSTELLO: Richard, how much of the plane would you expect them to bring up?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question. It depends how much is bring up able. Any large pieces will be brought up because they will want to reconstruct the aircraft as much as possible. If you look at TWA 800, they brought up an enormous amount of the aircraft because they've -- they rebuilt it. And that is still there in the warehouse of the NTSB and the authorities. But they won't be able to get it all.

It all depends also, Carol, where the plane and how the plane broke up. Did it break up in the air, in which case the debris -- there will be probably not high in the air because we'd have a much bigger debris field, but -- or did it break up on impact? On impact, the debris field will be fairly compact, they will be able to recover more if not most. COSTELLO: From the evidence that we see now, I mean, there's an

emergency door and some life jackets. We see the bodies of some of the passengers, some of them are not fully clothed. Is that evidence that it didn't break up in the air?

QUESET: Yes. Or at least -- did it completely destruct in the air? No. That's evidence that it didn't destruct like an explosion, literally like MH17, literally come apart. It's highly likely that parts may have come off the aircraft as it came down, particularly if it was in a deep stall and there were some extreme stresses on the airframe, then parts of the aircraft may have come apart. It's possible.

Or it may, like 447, we know from 447 that that did go into the water. That's impacted the water intact, because the modern day aircraft is built to withstand some tremendous aerodynamic forces, and that's -- so it depends on how this actually came down.

COSTELLO: Wow. So some of the recovery of the bodies took place from the air. I thought that was unusual. Is that normal?

TAYLOR: As far as recovery?

COSTELLO: Yes, the recovery.

TAYLOR: Well, helicopters are great tools and recovery of the bodies really is the No. 1 thing. We're talking about debris field, but let's not forget we're still in -- it's bodies that are the most important thing. Even underwater, when they're doing the searches, recovering black boxes are pretty much secondary to recovering bodies.

COSTELLO: And it will be difficult, the recovery of the bodies, because some of the bodies will be underneath the plane, right?

TAYLOR: Or missing. Maybe not all bodies will be recovered.

QUEST: And it will be a combination of -- it's awful to talk about this.

COSTELLO: I know.

QUEST: It really is.

COSTELLO: I know.

QUEST: But experience tells us what the conditions will be, where they will be found. Some will be in their seats, some will still be strapped into their seats, because it was only an hour into the flight, so we will -- and in this case, again, the injuries that they will have suffered will tell us something about what happened as well.

I have to put it in simple terms, Carol. This is -- I don't think frankly this is going to be a very difficult either search, recovery or investigation. I think you're going to find -- it's not going to happen by the top of the hour, but it's going to happen in a methodical way, in a textbook way. COSTELLO: So how will they get the large pieces of the plane out of

the water?

TAYLOR: Well, I would think that if the Navies are coming in with their big ships, they're equipped to do that -- cranes, davits, anything of that nature. Lift bags can -- divers and robots can put lifting bags, which fill with air and can lift bigger parts up, and then they can hook onto them on the surface. I mean, it's not that deep.

We can do mixed gas diving at 120 feet for a couple hours a day easily, so you can put some manpower on there, and when you get men down there hooking things up, it goes a lot faster. But, again, forensically you need to map the whole site like you would on land and find where everything is, because wherever it is, it tells you something as well. So mapping is important and then recovery.

COSTELLO: And then, that said, the whole entire plane probably won't be recovered, right?

QUEST: They'll recover as much as they can, absolutely. But every last screw, every last bit, no, no. But I mean, anything of any size will be recovered because the object here is to put it together and work out what happened. And not just to hear -- so that they can learn this bit failed, that bit didn't fail. That had -- was able to withstand the structures. They learn from every little part of the wreckage to improve the product in the future.

COSTELLO: Richard Quest, Tim Taylor, many thanks. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: No one can fathom the agony that families of AirAsia Flight 8501 are going through, except perhaps the families of Flight 370. After almost ten months of waiting, they, too, are grappling with the notion their loved ones perished at sea but with no confirmation of their fate.

Here's CNN's Will Ripley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anguish becomes anger. For the families of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, days of waiting turned to weeks and now almost ten months. For them, the news from Indonesia brought everything back.

STEVE WANG, MOTHER ON BOARD FLIGHT 370: The fear about losing someone, the pain and maybe the desperation.

RIPLEY: Steve Wang feels for the families of AirAsia Flight 8501. He knows what it's like to sit at the airport and wait for a plane that never comes, to hope against all odds the person you love may still be alive.

(on camera): Even after ten months, you're still hoping for a miracle.

WANG: Yes. Though it is painful but I don't want to give up.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Wang's mother was only 57. He hasn't spoken her name since March when MH370 disappeared.

WANG: No, I never said it.

RIPLEY (on camera): You've never said your mother's name out loud?

WANG: Yes.

RIPLEY (voice-over): He still listens to the voice mail she left him just before boarding the plane.

WANG: She wanted me to pick her up from the airport and she said to bring her coat. It's hard to believe that a man my age will cry suddenly.

RIPLEY (on camera): So you just turned 26 and your mom wasn't there for your birthday the first time.

WANG: Yes.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Of the 239 people on MH370, 154 were Chinese. Hundreds of relatives spent weeks at Beijing's Lido Hotel. In the grand ballroom, walls became giant message boards full of prayers for their parents, for their children, to come home. Today, it's all gone.

WANG: Nobody talks about it. What will they do? Will they keep on searching for plane or just give up? I don't know.

RIPLEY: Wang prays for the families of Flight 8501.

WANG: I just want them to be strong because you are not alone.

RIPLEY: He also prays everyday for his mother, one of 239 souls on MH370 still missing.

Will Ripley, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In a tragedy like this, the search for answers starts with the plane's flight data and cockpit voice recorders, the so-called black box. They hold critical information about the final moments before an aircraft goes down. After two major crashes over water this year, should the industry implement other options for tracking jets?

CNN's Alison Kosik has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Right now, when an airplane disappears, the story of what went wrong vanishes with the black box. But what if we had those answers all along?

RICHARD HAYDEN, FMR. DIRECTOR, FLYHT: We would know where the aircraft has gone, where it is, and we would have information on what happened in the meantime.

KOSIK: Canadian company Flyht makes live-streaming data recorders that sends information in realtime. It's part of a satellite-based system that monitors a plane's exact location, engine conditions, and more.

HAYDEN: System transmits every, say, every five to ten minutes on a normal flight.

KOSIK: If something goes wrong, like the plane deviating from its route, the system will start streaming live second-by-second data.

MARY SCHIAVO, FMR. INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: That kind of information is not only life-saving, but it adds a tremendous measure of security for our country.

KOSIK: There are several mechanisms that transmit a plane's data, but Hayden says, unlike those systems, the technology behind Flyht is more extensive, sharing a tremendous amount of information. So much information critics say it could be difficult to monitor and analyze if widely adopted.

Right now, Flyht's technology is only fitted to a few hundred planes. It can be installed for about $100,000. Normal data transmission costs between a few dollars to $15 per flight hour, and goes up for continuous streaming in a rare emergency, a cost carriers might not be willing to pay.

SCHIAVO: They're very cost sensitive and they simply will not add additional safety measures unless mandated by the federal government.

KOSIK: But with more questions about another missing commercial jet, the high-tech black box may get a second look.

HAYDEN: The technology exists, it's in service, it's economical, and the question now is how to get more widespread use of it.

KOSIK: Alison Kosik, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

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