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Boston Bomber Suspect's Plea Deal Failed; Icing Possible in AirAsia Crash; Oil Prices Fall; A Seven-Year-Old's Incredible Survival Story; North Korea Reacts to New Sanctions

Aired January 05, 2015 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: However, a case -- they can make a determination during the jury selection process that a jury can't be picked in Boston. So it's not over yet. If all of these hundreds and hundreds of jurors are questioned and many of them indicate they can't be fair, we still could see a change of venue in this case. I'm not saying it's going to happen. But from a legal standpoint, it has happened in other similar cases.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: We now know that one of the attorneys representing Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has represented the Unabomber, has represented Jared Loughner, was able to make plea deals for those clients to spare their lives from the death penalty. Not the case here, at least given the developments this morning. The Feds saying, no, no plea deal. What do you make of that? Can she be effective in her role?

CALLAN: She's been very effective in the past. This is a very sophisticated defense attorney, very well aware of how to negotiate in these cases and how to present these cases. And, once again, sometimes we see deals made in the middle of trials. And the one big factor hanging over the case is it's taking place in Massachusetts. And while on the one hand that would seem prejudicial to the defendant, on the other hand, Massachusetts is a place where there's great opposition to the death penalty.

CABRERA: It's a very liberal city.

CALLAN: It's extremely liberal. And you're likely to get a jury, a death qualified jury. People have to say they would be willing to impose the death penalty. But you're likely to get people who are uncomfortable with the death penalty. So, in the end, maybe it's not such a bad place for them to be as defendants in Massachusetts.

CABRERA: Page, I want to read you a quote from "The Boston Globe." It was from an editorial article in 2013 saying the dealt penalty should not be pursued in part because, quote, "in addition to the extra cost of capital prosecutions, cases can exceed $10 million. Death penalty cases drag on for years. Such lengthy proceedings would insure that the marathon bombing case lingers in the spotlight, compounding the sense of injury to victims. Years of proceedings would also give Tsarnaev what he and his brother apparently sought, publicity and notoriety."

Page, what are your thoughts?

PAGE PATE, FEDERAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CITY OF ATLANTA: Well, I agree 100 percent. And there are other reasons not to do it here. As Paul mentioned, I mean this is a fairly, at least on the death penalty, liberal community. And I think the recent polling suggests that 57 percent of folks in the Boston area think that he should get life without the possibility of parole, not the dealt penalty. So I think that's certainly a reason not to pursue it here.

We should not be having this trial. It's going to be expensive. There are going to be countless appeals. And for somebody who's willing to commit terrorism, I don't think the death penalty is a deterrent. In some ways, it may incite this type of behavior. But at the end of the day, I still don't think they're going to get the death penalty in this case. So looking back on it, I think we'll see that it is a waste of time and it was bad for the city to pursue it in this manner.

CABRERA: All right, Page Pate and Paul Callan, thanks to both of you.

CALLAN: Thank you.

PATE: Thank you.

CABRERA: Hello again and thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Carol this morning.

Crews trying to find debris and more victims in the search for AirAsia Flight 8501 are running into more problems from the air and in the water. The aerial search has been called off for the day because of storms and severe rain. But not before three more bodies were recovered, bringing the total now to 37 out of 162.

Deep underwater divers are having a hard time seeing anything because of the muddy waters and the turbulent waves. Indonesia's navy is trying to help tackle this problem by sending in special equipment. We also learned just today that at least one large piece of wreckage, detected in the search for the missing plane, turned out to be from a ship wreck.

But more help has arrived. Two U.S. Navy ships are now positioned in the Java Sea. The USS Fort Worth just arrived over the weekend, equipped with side scan sonar gear that's designed to map the sea floor and then capture accurate images.

Indonesia weather experts are pointing to possible icing related engine problems as one explanation for what may have downed Flight 8501. That theory is outlined in a new 14 page report.

Let's talk more about this with former pilot Alastair Rosenschein, and he joins me by phone from England.

Alastair, thank you so much for joining me.

You have 30 years of experience in the aviation industry, nearly 15,000 flying hours. In your opinion, is it likely icing could have led to the plane's demise? ALASTAIR ROSENSCHEIN, FORMER PILOT (via telephone): Oh, indeed. Any

flight into a thunderstorm runs the risk of icing. And it can affect an aircraft in a number of ways. One, it can block the instrument, the instrument pitot tubes, which provide both static air pressure and also air speed. And it can also alter the aerodynamics of the aircraft by buildup on the wings, flight controls as well, which can also be locked. So, you know, it can be a factor in this.

And can I say also, this accident appears to be very similar to the Air Alger MD-83 accident, and that was flight number 5017 on the 24th of July 2014. And it went down in a thunderstorm over Mali. It's very, very similar circumstances. The accident report is still -- hasn't yet been produced. So they're still working on that one. But, you know, icing can play a very, very important role in this sort of accident.

CABRERA: So if icing is a known issue, is it a matter of making better decisions about whether to fly a plane during certain kinds of weather conditions, or do there need to be changes to the planes themselves?

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, let me say, first of all, that, generally speaking, icing is not a problem on modern airliners. They have systems to heat up the engine itself, where the air enters the engines and also the leading edge of the wing. So, you know, they have all this equipment. There is icing encountered on almost every flight that is conducted because air crafts fly up through the icing layer in the atmosphere and if there's any moisture, then as you pass through that area, you are going to pick up some icing. It doesn't always form on the aircraft, but the icing conditions are very, very common place. So there's no question air crafts have to fly in icing conditions.

However, in a thunderstorm, you can end up with super cool water droplets and a huge, huge weight of them, which can form very, very rapidly on the aircraft. And this is one of the mayor reasons why we use weather radar to avoid flying through thunderstorms because of icing and turbulence issues.

CABRERA: I want to read you something from the pilot's daughter, who spoke out yesterday and asked people not to blame her father for what happened, the captain of the plane. What goes through your mind when you hear that, an emotional plea from her, considering all the years you have spent as a pilot yourself?

ROSENSCHEIN: One -- you know, until those black boxes are recovered, now that's the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recover, until they're recovered, until the accident report is out, no blame should be attributed because, you know, one is speculating and it would be totally wrong to do that. From my own experience, you know, there are -- there are methods of human error or what we used to call pilot error and they can be the cause of an accident, but they can also just be contributing factors. But more often than not, the human intervention, the pilot, is trying their very best with the training they've received and the experience they have to prevent an accident. And so it seems callus and inappropriate to start attributing blame to the flight crew at this point.

CABRERA: Humans are not perfect and neither is technology. Alastair Rosenschein, thank you so much.

Still to come, a seven-year-old girl crawled through ditches and creeks in the dark, in the cold, after surviving a plane crash that killed her family. The latest on the investigation and her incredible story of survival, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CABRERA: Breaking news on the economy right now. Christine Romans joining us to discuss oil prices plummeting, stocks also dropping significantly, as we have the live picture of the big board down 136 right now as the Dow, Christine, fill us in on what's happening.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So, this is an oil driven selloff. You have oil prices falling sharply again, down about 2 percent here. A five and a half year low. You're talking about a barrel of crude oil for just about $50. When you think about that, Ana, that's been cut in half over the past few months. Really a remarkable plunge. And you can call it that, a plunge in crude oil prices.

So why are stocks down? Because, obviously, lower oil prices mean lower gas prices and that's good for American consumes, no question. But it's not necessarily good for the American companies that rely on oil prices for their profits. You are seeing the oil company shares get hammered here today. And so it is energy stocks that are sort of leading this unease on Wall Street overall.

So we're watching the stock market come down here. Now, one thing about the decline in stocks, remember, it has been three amazing years for the stock market. The last few weeks of 2014, you saw very, very good gains. And so no surprise here that with unsettling in the oil markets, you would see some stock investors taking money off the table to start the new year, Ana.

CABRERA: Want to talk more just about the timing. I mean is there something specific that happened in the last 24 hours that has driven this price of oil down even further?

ROMANS: We're watching actually a -- so glad you asked. We're watching a big sort of convergence of big market themes right now at the beginning of the year. And one of those is a dollar that's strong and a Euro -- a European currency that's fallen to a nine year low. And one of the reasons for that is because the U.S. economy appears to be strong.

The U.S. Federal Reserve is expected to raise interest rates when around the rest of the world it looks like some of these economies are going to have to keep interest rates low and may have to do more of their own kind of stimulus to keep their economies going. So that divergence is something we're seeing in currency markets. At the same time, we're seeing these oil prices continue to plummet.

Now, remember, Iraq and Russia just had record oil output too. So that means there's just all this oil out there even as demand is weakening. So that adds to the bear market story in oil, even as you're seeing big moves -- big moves in the currency markets after three very good years in stocks. It all means it's a little unsettled here at the beginning of the year.

CABRERA: Yes, good for gas prices, but not for investors.

ROMANS: That's right. That's right.

CABRERA: Christine Romans, thanks so much.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABERERA: An unbelievable story out of Kentucky. A story of survival involving a 7-year-old girl who lived through a plane crash that killed her parents, her sister, and her cousin. And it could help investigators find out what happened.

Sailor Gutzler, seen here on the left, walked nearly a mile through the cold Kentucky woods before reaching the home of Larry Wilkins. His was one of only three homes in the area with someone inside. And with only minor injuries, this little girl was able to point investigators toward the wreckage.

CNN's Nick Valencia joins me now. What an amazing story, Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite remarkable, absolutely, Ana. She could not have chosen a better way to get out of those dense woods. Had she walked in another direction, well, there's a chance she may still be trapped there today. But instead, over the weekend, Kentucky state police detailing her remarkable journey to get help.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (voice-over): 7-year-old Sailor Gutzler is the only survivor of a plane crash that killed her family. On Sunday, Kentucky state police detailed her remarkable journey to get help.

LT. BRENT WHITE, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE: During the flight, something went wrong. And what she knew from that point was something to the effect that the plane was upside down. Her family on board was unresponsive. She utilized her non-injured arm and hand to free herself from the aircraft.

VALENCIA: Sailor emerges from the plane to see a small fire at the crash. In the pitch black, she thought about lighting a stick on fire to guide her way through the woods. But it didn't work out so she begins to walk in the dark.

WHITE: She didn't have very much clothing on at all. She began walking, and it's estimated that she walked for probably around 15 to 20 minutes, maybe more, in the wooded area before she was able to see a light at the residence of Mr. Wilkins. VALENCIA: At home in rural Kentucky, Larry Wilkins had just finished

watching the local evening news when his dog started barking, and he heard a knock at the door.

VOICE OF LARRY WILKINS, FOUND 7-YEAR-OLD SURVIVOR: I went to the door and there was a little girl about 7 years old, crying. Not bad, lip was quivering pretty good and she was bloody, had a bloody nose. And her arms and legs were scratched up real bad. And she told me her mom and dad was dead.

VALENCIA: Wilkins later learned Sailor tracked through grizzly terrain, navigating ditches, briar patches, and at one point even a 12 foot creek bed.

WHITE: At the scene, we were talking about that being some divine intervention there because she absolutely went to probably the nearest house that she could have.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA (on camera): Now, there's no wonder why people are calling this a miracle, Ana. We should give you an update on Sailor's condition. She was treated for minor injuries and released from the hospital. As for that crash, FAA and NTSB still investigating the exact cause of what brought it down. Ana?

CABRERA: All right. What a brave little girl. Nick Valencia, thank you.

Now Larry Wilkins, we heard from just a little bit there, happened to have his porch light on that night when little Sailor came knocking on his door so faintly. He says the terrain she climbed through would be tough on an adult, let alone a second grader. And he spoke with our John Berman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY WILKINS, ASSISTED SAILOR GUTLZER AFTER PLANE CRASH: She said my mom and dad are dead. We had a plane crash and the plane was upside down. Actually, it's kind of unbelievable, you know, that a little girl would come out and -- you have to bear in mind how rough the terrain is through that woods. A lot of briar bushes and her little legs were just cut up from the bottom of her shorts to the tip of her toes. And it was about 35, 36 degrees and barefooted and it wasn't raining, just drizzling, so she was a little but wet but not soaking wet, but a little bit wet. But I imagine them little feet were pretty daggone cold.

BERMAN: And you brought her inside, put her feet up, got her warm. You had about ten minutes, you say, before the EMTs, before emergency officials finally were able to get on the scene. Thankfully, they were close. What did you talk about during those ten minutes? What went on inside the house?

WILKINS: Well, I tried to get all the information out of her I could, but a little seven-year-old girl leaf-trembling, crying, and trying to talk, couldn't understand very much of what she said. In fact, I probably asked her her name three or four times.

BERMAN: Talk to me about the area around your house. You said there was a creek bed, briars, a difficult walk for anybody, let alone a seven-year-old girl at night.

WILKINS: Well, yes. And we had an ice storm here in 2008 and this woods is -- I was told last night that it was about 1,400 acres total, but now here I'm probably two blocks from a minor high highway. To know that the Good Lord was with her, if she had walked the other direction, you probably would haven't found her for a week, because she'd be walking into just more woods.

The ice storm knocked a lot of these trees down, I'd say probably 20 percent, 30 percent of the trees knocked down, so everywhere she walk she had to detour. It's probably, as the crow flies, maybe a quarter of a mile from where that plane crashed, but you couldn't walk in the a straight line. I'd say she walked three quarters of a mile because she had a creek bed to go through, briar bushes to go around, fallen trees to walk around. I've said many times I don't like to walk in that woods in the daylight much less in the dark with no light.

BERMAN: So it was either good luck or something else that brought her to your house. It's an amazing thing.

You've had a chance to speak to her grandfather, I hear. How is she doing? And if you can get a message too Sailor, what do you want to tell Sailor today?

WILKINS: Just wish her good luck. And I know she's had an extraordinary hard time and probably in her mind she doesn't understand everything that's going on right this moment, but her grandfather was a very, very pleasant person and thanked me. And actually, you know, I didn't do anything that you wouldn't do or anybody you know probably wouldn't do if a small child comes to your door.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Now, Sailor Gutzler is back in her hometown of Nashville, Illinois. She is staying with her grandfather.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: North Korea is slamming the U.S. over those new economic sanctions. Official statements accuse Washington of trying to quote, "stifle Pyongyang" and more on that quote, "groundlessly stirring up bad blood towards North Korea would only harden its will and resolution."

Washington accused North Korea of being behind the massive Sony hack. The studio, of course, produced "The Interview", a comedy about a plot to kill North Korea's leader.

CNN's Will Ripley is live now in Beijing, China, with the latest on this. Will, what else is North Korea saying?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're really trying to jump on the skepticism among some private cyber security experts, Ana, that in fact believe this hack may have been an inside job at Sony and not, as the U.S. government claims, the result of deliberate action by North Korea.

So what Pyongyang's approach appears to be is to take this strategy that the U.S. -- they're accusing the U.S. of using these sanctions as a way to solidify a shaky case against them. I want to read you one quote from the foreign ministry that's out right now saying, quote, "The persistent and unilateral action taken by the White House to slap sanctions against the DPRK patently proves that it is still not away from the inveterate repugnance and hostility toward the DPRK."

So essentially, Ana, North Korea saying that there is deep-rooted hostility and that's what the sanctions are about, not what the U.S. government says is very credible evidence that North Korea launched this cyber attack on Sony Pictures.

CABRERA: We've heard from U.S. lawmakers from both side of the aisle who have supported this move. Some, though, don't think that the Obama administration has gone far enough. Take a listen to what Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat, said on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: The one thing I disagree with the president on is when he characterized the action here against Sony by North Korea as an act of vandalism. Vandalism is when you break a window; terrorism is when you destroy a building. And what happened here is North Korea landed a virtual bomb on Sony's parking lot and ultimately had real consequences to it as a company and to many individuals who work there. So I think that there has to be a real consequence to this, otherwise you will see it happen again and again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Will, could other sanctions or different penalties still be coming?

RIPLEY: Well, the White House itself is actually saying these sanctions are just the first step in other actions that will be taken against North Korea, sending a clear message that these kind of cyber attacks won't be tolerated.

But keep in mind, Ana, the North Korean economy, already one of the most heavily sanctioned in the world. And while the could have an impact on some of North Korea's arms exports, a way that North Korea makes money, the effects are pretty limited on an economy that's already so isolated and so sanctioned.

CABRERA: Looking forward now, what can we expect from Kim Jong-Un in 2015? I know he has sort of sent out an olive branch of sorts to South Korea recently, right? RIPLEY: Yes. Well, you know, we're hearing a little bit more from

him now. You mentioned his new year's address where he talked about the possibility of the highest level talks with South Korean President Park. But, keep in mind, just a week earlier his state news agency was calling her election a fraud and calling her father, who's a former president, a dictator.

But Kim Jong-Un, he turns 32 this week. This is his birthday week. He's coming into his own. It's the first year after the official mourning period for his father that North Koreans can celebrate his birthday and celebrate him as the leader. And it should be interesting to see what agendas he pushes in the coming year.

But one thing we can be certain of, Ana, there will be some unpredictability and inconsistency because that's just what we've seen time and time again from North Korea.

CABRERA: And just 32 years old. Will Ripley, thanks for the insight.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

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