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3 Arrested for Newest Shooting of 2 NYPD Officers; Pilot's Daughter Makes Emotional Plea; Sole Plane Crash Survivor, 7, Faced Death; Northwest Airlines Crash Victim/Firefighter Form Bond; Sheriff Blames Obama for Rift between Police, Protesters.

Aired January 06, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: More breaking news here on CNN. This one takes me to New York. Police have arrested three men in the shooting of two New York police officers. Initially, one officer was in critical condition, but the latest word we have, thank goodness is that both men are listed in stable condition.

But listen, this is a tragic start to the new year for this police department after a heartbreaking ending to 2014. Of course, you know the story. Those two officers were brutally shot and killed in their patrol car for simply being police, members of law enforcement, according to investigators. But this very latest shooting does appear to be connected to a crime. The mayor, in fact, is hailing the commitment of the officers who were shot. They had just ended their shift when an armed robbery call came in and they then joined the search for the suspect.

So let me bring in our justice correspondent, Evan Perez, who can talk a little bit more about the arrests.

But first, tell me more about what happened last night.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, just about 17 hours ago, Brooke, this is -- the call comes in of a robbery at a grocery store. These officers were in plain clothes, they were leaving their shift, they were going home.

BALDWIN: They were done?

PEREZ: They were done.

And they respond to the call, as these officers will tend to do. And they come upon these two suspects as they're trying to get -- apparently, get away. The one suspect, who we have a picture of, has a beard. He's in a nearby store. You can see that he is --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That's him.

PEREZ: Yeah. He's in this Chinese restaurant nearby. And then you see a picture of him holding the gun up. This is apparently the moment in which he starts firing. These two officers are both injured. They are both were hospitalized last night. Thankfully, they appear to be -- they're going to survive. There's not going to be any lasting issue here. But these officers -- it's not clear they knew these were police officers because they were plain clothed.

BALDWIN: Right.

PEREZ: That doesn't matter. They shot two cops.

BALDWIN: That doesn't matter at all. And the follow-up would be, what about those in custody. Does that include the gunman?

PEREZ: The gunman is in custody. It took just a few hours. Apparently, the cops were able to track him through his cell phone. They made the arrest this afternoon.

The second gunman, the second suspect, rather, was in the hospital already because he turned himself in from suffering a gun shot. And so he wanted to get treatment for that. He is also under arrest.

And there's a third suspect under arrest, Brooke. We're not sure what role he played in this crime.

BALDWIN: OK. Evan Perez, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Next, in the search for flight 8501, the daughter of the pilot makes this emotional plea to the public to anyone who has been out criticizing her father. Plus, one expert says the plane likely made a horizontal crash landing. Hear the evidence that leads him to that theory.

You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: Now to the hunt for missing flight 8501, exclusive pictures from onboard the American warship, the "USS Sampson" as they collect plane wreckage from the Java Sea, including the seats as well as more bodies. You wouldn't know it from scenes like these, but weather over the search zone was, again, awful, keeping all 97 divers aboard the ships again. Searchers reportedly thought they spotted the plane's tail section. Remember we reported some outlets were saying that was a possibility, you know, home to the critical black boxes, but that search came up empty.

This, of course, leaves a lot of unanswered questions. And without information, finger pointing has turned to the pilots. Today, criticism over the revelation that the pilots didn't pick up a weather report before takeoff as part of this in-person briefing with the government meteorologist. For its part, AirAsia says it's the airline's procedure to instead e-mail those reports to the pilot instead of picking them up.

The captain's daughter making an emotional plea to Indonesian media, to the public, "Stop blaming my dad."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA ANGGI RANSTIANIS, DAUGHTER OF AIRASIA PILOT (through translation): Do not blame my father. If you were in my shoes, you wouldn't bear this. I'm disappointed. My father's fate is still unknown and you have made a conclusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Robert Schapiro, retired 747 pilot.

You said you flew 34 years. So we're going to get into new information. But my first question to you, just hearing the daughter, I mean, your heart goes out to her. There's so many questions unanswered, the mosaic isn't full as far as what happened. Why is it that everyone sort of leaps to this conclusion that a pilot or a captain could be absolutely the reason why a plane went down?

ROBERT SCHAPIRO, RETIRED 747 PILOT: Well, as an airline captain, it's your luck to be blamed for everything that happens on your aircraft, and until the facts come out to the country. But it is early to say who was to blame for this. The daughter has a valid point.

BALDWIN: The point about the weather reports that apparently, you know, it's sufficient to have them e-mailed to them versus picking them up in person.

SCHAPIRO: Yes.

BALDWIN: Does that make a big difference?

SCHAPIRO: No, it makes no difference at all. Whether it's a face-to- face briefing or whether it's an e-mailed or faxed report, it's exactly the same information.

BALDWIN: How do you guarantee someone looks at it, though?

SCHAPIRO: Well, that's the pilot's job. They understand the importance of knowing the weather. And they would have carefully looked at it and almost certainly understood. A face to face briefing is no guarantee that they would be any better equipped to do the flight.

BALDWIN: OK. Let me ask you about this claim from one of, actually, the Air France crash investigators who told NBC that this plane was likely horizontal when it crashed into the sea and its impact was probably quoting them, not very violent. What do you make of that theory?

SCHAPIRO: Well, that's not very violent from a crash investigative point of view. Violent to them is impact where just small pieces of the aircraft left. Not violent is when it would hit the water as they say in a horizontal position and the aircraft perhaps just breaks up into three or four pieces. But in neither case would it be survivable in human terms. It's just that plane was largely intact after the impact.

BALDWIN: Because if you're thinking of anyone onboard that plane --

(CROSSTALK)

SCHAPIRO: No, forget about it.

BALDWIN: It's incredibly violent.

SCHAPIRO: It's not survivable.

BALDWIN: What is your -- someone who flew for more than three decades and flown 747s, what is your number one question?

SCHAPIRO: Regarding?

BALDWIN: Any of this that you've been watching, any of this about this particular plane that you would want -- you would want to know, to understand what happened.

SCHAPIRO: Well, in this case, the information will come out because the black boxes will be found --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You're confident they will be?

SCHAPIRO: Oh, absolutely. And it's a shallow sea. They know the area. They will find the black boxes.

BALDWIN: Even though there's zero visibility?

SCHAPIRO: They will find the black boxes. They will find every piece of that aircraft.

What they may not find is the Malaysian 317, which is not in 100 foot of water, but in 13,000 foot of water.

BALDWIN: 370, right.

SCHAPIRO: 370.

BALDWIN: They may not.

Rob Schapiro, thank you so much for joining me. Appreciate it. Appreciate your expertise.

Coming up next, this brave 7-year-old girl, the only survivor of that small plane crash that left her family dead. She walked through the woods in the dark, in the rain, in the fog to find this elderly man's home. She saw this one light on. We traced her steps. Our CNN crew in those very woods, the ones she took in the cold, and short sleeves, and darkness. What was that like?

Plus, what's next for her recovery? We'll talk with a firefighter who rescued the soul survivor of another plane crash, another little girl. Don't miss that.

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BALDWIN: 7-year-old Sailor Gutzler, faced death last week. Now, she has to face life as a sole survivor of that tragedy. We shared her story yesterday. Sailor lost her mother, her father, her sister and her cousin in that crash and found herself alone with a broken arm and absolutely no clue as far as where she was. She somehow mustered the courage to walk three-fourths of a mile in the woods on a freezing night to find help. But that doesn't exactly do justice to exactly how difficult that trek was.

CNN's Martin Savidge actually went to those very woods to try it out for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Any direction takes you into deep brush. It's not like I'm looking for the easiest path. There is no path, just dense undergrowth that grabs, trips and stabs.

(on camera): This is really nasty stuff. You can see the really sharp needles on here. These are briars, in the darkness, it's no wonder she was all cut up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Needless to say, Martin and crew actually had to turn around there in the woods of Kentucky.

Sailor's story is absolutely awe inspiring. But she isn't the only person to survive a tragedy such as this one. Northwest Airlines 255 crashed in 1987, killing everyone onboard except one young girl. And she had a bond with a firefighter who found her. And in a moment, I'll talk to him.

But first, here's Dan Simon with her story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CECILIA SHEEHAN, 1987 PLANE CRASH SURVIVOR: I remember feeling angry and survivor's guilt. Why didn't my brother survive? Why didn't anybody? Why me?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If there's anyone who can relate to what 7-year-old Sailor Gutzler is going through as a lone survivor of a plane crash, it's this woman.

UNIDENTIFIED ANCHOR: Good evening. More than 140 people died at Detroit's metro airport tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: The light DC9 crashed shortly after takeoff.

SIMON: Cecilia Sheehan was 4 years old when she survived the crash of northwest flight 255. The Phoenix-bound plane went down on August 16th, 1987, moments after taking off from Detroit. LT. JOHN THIEDE, FIREFIGHTER WHO SAVED SHEEHAN: I saw a chair laying

upside down, picked up the chair and underneath it was little Cecilia, the survivor.

SIMON: Cecilia lost her parents and 6-year-old brother. About a third of her body suffered burns.

She has rarely spoken publicly about the crash, but was among those profiled in the CNN documentary "Sole Survivor."

SHEEHAN: I got this tattoo, as a reminder of where I've come from. And I see it as, you know, so many things scars, whatever, were put on my body against my will. And I decided to put this on my body for myself.

I think that me surviving was random. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

SIMON (on camera): One of the more touching aspects of Cecilia's story involves the firefighter who helped rescue her from the crash site. You saw him there briefly. Cecilia says they've stayed in touch over the years. She says he is the link between her before and after. He went to her wedding, and they danced at her reception.

Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: We'll talk to that firefighter in a moment. But Sailor Gutzler had her own guardian angel, Larry Wilkins, a 71-year-old man. He was the first to comfort her after this horrific experience. And there is no doubt he, too, was touched by little Sailor's bravery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY WILKINS, HELPED SAILOR GUTZLER: All scratched up, arms scratched up, bloody nose, crying. And she said her mom and dad were dead.

She wanted me to go with her. I said, let them go. Tough kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He wanted to go to the hospital and they wouldn't let him go.

Here he is. Here's that firefighter, Lieutenant John Thiede.

Lieutenant, nice to see you.

THIEDE: You, too.

BALDWIN: When you heard this story, this crash out of Kentucky, did it just instantly bring it all back to you?

THIEDE: Well, I think any time I hear about an airplane crash, I think about that night. And, yeah, it hit home with only having one survivor, yeah.

BALDWIN: What do you remember about that night? And also, what do you remember about all those hospital visits? You, you know, as a first responder, got to visit Cecilia in the hospital a bunch of times.

THIEDE: Well, that night I remember just eerie, rainy night. And we responded obviously on the north side of the crash. And within minutes, one of our other firefighters, Daniel Kish, actually heard her moan. And after a few other seconds, there's a sheriff on scene with us and we went into the wreckage and Dan went southbound, I went northbound. And we actually located the chair, and with another firefighter, we found Cecilia. And we kind of assessed her with the injuries and got her to a waiting ambulance crew.

BALDWIN: And you remember all those names, all these many, many years later. And so many years, Lieutenant Thiede, before she later reached out to you. Why did she reach out? What was it she wanted to know?

THIEDE: I think if you watch "Sole Survivor," she contacted some family members from 255. They have a great support group. And they reached out. Cecilia reached out to them. She contacted me and wanted to know about that night in as much detail as I could give her on her family and things like that and maybe what we went through as the rescuers.

BALDWIN: I'm mindful as I'm talking to you. I'm thinking of this man in Kentucky, you know, who took Sailor in. And, you know, who knows what kind of relationship if anything they could forge over the years. But ultimately, Cecilia invited you to her wedding, am I right? You danced with her. What has that relationship been like? Blossomed into?

THIEDE: Right. Yeah. In 2006, I got to go to the wedding. And when I first saw her, the only time I saw her, was at the hospital, a few visits we went to the University of Michigan, and I saw her before they departed. I really only saw her in pictures. And when I first saw her walk down the aisle, it brought tears to my eyes. And we danced at the reception. And over the years, seems like a brother/sister relationship. We talk about sports and life in general because she's grown up to be a great woman.

BALDWIN: Sounds wonderful she's had you, Lieutenant.

Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

Coming up next, the sheriff of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Milwaukee County, says the latest rift between police and protesters can be blamed on President Obama. And he says the nation's officers are "reaching a tipping point" -- his words. We'll ask him why. He joins me live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The potential danger of a police officer's job was at the forefront, of course, of their minds at New York and across the nation. But with all the protests, some law enforcement leaders are saying that something new is putting officers on edge.

Let me read for you what David Clarke told "The Washington Post." He said, "We might be reaching a tipping point with the mindset of officers who are beginning to wonder if the risks they take to keep communities safe are even worth it anymore. In New York and other places, we are seeing a natural recoil from law enforcement officers who don't feel like certain people who need to have their backs have their backs."

Let's ask him about that. Sheriff Clarke joins me now live from Milwaukee.

Sheriff, nice to see you. Welcome.

DAVID CLARKE, SHERIFF, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Thank you. Welcome.

BALDWIN: So we have, you know, talked here on CNN about these police officers, multiple times in recent weeks, you know, turning their backs on the mayor here in New York. I know you attended one of the wakes over the weekend here in the city. And you tweeted out a photo of that. But you say this issue is so much bigger than what's happening in New York City. You blame the president of the United States. You blame Attorney General Eric Holder. Tell me why.

CLARKE: Because I watched some very powerful people in this country trash the reputation of law enforcement officers all across the nation. All right? They had a chance to extol the virtues. We know we're not perfect, but our communities would collapse without us. And most of the people who live in these communities know this. But we have some powerful people that instead of going out and doing something --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Be specific. Name names. A lot of powerful people.

CLARKE: A lot of the -- the president of the United States, Eric Holder and Mayor de Blasio, OK? Who have sat up there and instead of trying to diffuse this thing with responsible rhetoric to try to calm the waters, if you will, from the cop hating that has arisen out of the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri, they decided to go to the political route and score some cheap political points.

I heard the president of the United States in an interview say that police officers have a fear of people who don't look like them. That is as disgusting a statement that I have ever heard anybody make. We know what our law enforcement officers mean to our communities. We're not perfect, but we are our community's finest.

And only now that two officers are dead in New York -- two more shot last night in an unrelated type of situation -- but it speaks to the danger of law enforcement in these American ghettos. Now all of a sudden, they're trying to show some appreciation. But they're going to have to pay back that political capital that they scored early on in this thing before any sort of repair in this relationship, with every law enforcement agency across America is going to be able to begin.

BALDWIN: Sheriff --

(CROSSTALK)

CLARKE: I was in incredulous at the news conference held by Bill Bratton and de Blasio yesterday. Once again, Bill de Blasio. Once again, he's out there trying to make the NYPD the bad guys in all of this for turning their backs on him at the funeral. That turning of the back was an honor of their slain colleague. Because don't forget, when Bill de Blasio threw the entire NYPD under the bus, Officer Ramos and Officer Liu were alive, and he was basically calling them bloodthirsty racists, as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me jump in. I wanted to hear your full response. And I was talking to two former officers of the force, 20 plus years, both of them. And I think they would agree with a lot of what you said.

That said, when you talk about the politicization of all of this and cop trashing, you have that. But then you have this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO, (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: This is the word's greatest police department, there's no doubt about it. I've said it many times. I never have any fear of contradiction when I say that statement. It is the world's greatest police department. I've traveled all over the world and people speak reverently about NYPD. They want to learn from the NYPD. They want to visit this building.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: As the brother of a retired police officer, I know in a very personal way how brave these public servants are. It is for their sake, as well, that we must seek to heal the breakdowns that we have seen.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Understand, our police officers put their lives on the line for us every single day. They've got a tough job to do, to maintain public safety and hold accountable those who break the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Sheriff Clarke, it seems to me, you know, they're praising our law enforcement in this country. I mean, is that their messages that anger you? I see you smiling and I see you shaking your head. Is it the timing of the messages?

CLARKE: It's a day late and a dollar short. And these gentlemen are speaking out of both sides of their mouth. You don't kick somebody in the teeth one day and turn around the next day and try to talk about how great that individual was. These guys had an opportunity, and I say that with all due respect, when I say these guys. They had an opportunity to come out of the gate with that rhetoric, to diffuse this unjustified hatred towards cops, and they didn't. They went for the political capital instead. And then when they got those political points, then all of a sudden, they come out and they start extolling the virtues of law enforcement. I'm not going to let these guys have it both ways, and neither is the NYPD.

BALDWIN: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

CLARKE: I'm not buying their nonsense now.

BALDWIN: All right.

CLARKE: It's just too little, too late.

BALDWIN: You talk about, I mentioned off the top, our nation reaching a tipping point with the mind set of these officers. And I'm wondering, you know, being in Milwaukee, you know, talking to your men and women who work within your department, be specific, what are the kinds of risks they share with you, their fears, each and every day going to work?

CLARKE: Well, look, we know the dangers of law enforcement. We saw that last night with the officers, who were off duty, by the way, but they quickly jump back into duty to go out and protect life and property, all right? That happens on a daily basis here in the United States of America. Cops go out, they put the uniform on, put their best foot forward. They don't know if they're coming home at night, back to their families. Their families don't know. They live in the state of hyper-vigilance. We accept that. We don't whine about it and we're not looking for any sympathy. But what our cops on the street want is when things go wrong in our world -- and sometimes it does, when we have to use deadly force -- we'd like to know that the rule of law is going to prevail.

And we're not going to allow people to go on a witch hunt looking to hang some cop for some political reason. That's when I want to hear important people, including law enforcement executives, but more so the political class, to not take the political route, do the right thing and extol the virtues.

And if cops make mistakes, we will handle that on a case-by-case basis. But to totally defame -- for the president of the United States to say -- and I will repeat it -- that cops have a fear of people who don't look like them is -- is repugnant.