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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Security Checkpoints Set Up near Paris; Police Officer Shot in Paris This Morning; American Security Agencies Take Closer Look at High Priority Suspects

Aired January 08, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to our special live coverage of the Paris terror attack. It is 6:00 p.m. in Paris, which means the two brothers who are suspected in the "Charlie Hebdo" attack again have now the cover of darkness with which they can use to hide.

But police think they know where to look for them. Security checkpoints are now set up in a 12-mile radius of this gas station that is northeast of the capital where Cherif and Said Kouachi reportedly were spotted by a gas attendant. The man says those suspects stole gas and stole food before once again heading back toward Paris. Since then, things have changed. Police have now converged on a nearby farming village and we're going to take you there live in just a moment.

The Paris suburb of Montrouge was the scene today of a deadly shooting of yet another police officer. And though that, too, has been officially branded a terror attack, it has not been linked to the massacre that happened at the magazine yesterday morning.

At noon Paris time, the city came to a standstill to honor the 12 people who were killed in the offices of that satirical publication. One of the gunmen reportedly said that he was avenging the Prophet Mohammed, whom "Charlie Hebdo" had never spared from ridicule. Surviving staff members say "Charlie" will publish next week and on schedule.

We're going to dig into all of this in the hour ahead, but we begin with my CNN colleagues Jim Bittermann in Paris and Atika Shubert in the countryside northeast of the capital where a heavy police presence is now getting heavier.

Atika, can you update us on exactly where they think these two people may be hiding?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, French police haven't given any official comment, but what we have been seeing is a lot of police activity in this area. And the (INAUDIBLE) highways where we at, that is where the suspects are believed to have traveled. And behind me you can see that flashing light of the police is the country road to Longpont (ph). That's about four kilometers to the south of us. And that is where we saw a number of heavily armed S.W.A.T. teams actually going into that area. Now, just to give you a sense, this is very rural part of northern

France. A lot of farm houses, open fields, but also a very large forest near here. Several thousand hectares wide. If they have gone into that forest, it will take a very long time for police to search for it. We've seen helicopters circling throughout the day here, looking possibly as though they're searching for the two suspects.

So that's what we know of police activity. We have not had any official comment from police yet, but we will be staying here to bring you the latest, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And now, as night has fallen just in the last half hour since you've been broadcasting, Atika, are they using the helicopters with some kind of spotlights, given the fact that this is a heavily wooded area and a very large wooded area at that?

SHUBERT: We actually haven't seen the helicopters after nightfall. We saw them earlier in the day. We have seen a number of quite heavy tactical units being brought into this area, but we don't know how they're being used. They're actually keeping us quite a distance from Longpont and the village of Carsi (ph) as well, which is right next door. So we don't know exactly what's happening there. All we can see is that building police presence and we can only assume perhaps that they are searching for them there.

BANFIELD: And then I just want to swing down to Jim Bittermann in Paris for a moment.

As Atika covers what's happening northeast of you, Jim, clearly there is a frenzy of activity in Paris in terms of the forensic trail that they are trying to keep hot on these suspects. What do you know about the efforts?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that their -- one of the things that they are trying to do is, of course, track down these two guys, but there's a third gunman here and we shouldn't forget that, Ashleigh. This morning in Paris, a police officer was shot and killed with an automatic weapon by someone wearing a black mask and black outfit and a bulletproof vest. So there's actually a third gunman out there. And we haven't heard anything at all about that except for the prosecutor says that they are treating that as a terrorist attack as well.

Now, in just about 10 minutes, Ashleigh, we're expecting to hear from the interior minister who was out at that scene this morning, and the interior minister may be able to clear up some of these mysteries about this hunt that's going on around where Atika is, but also about what happened this morning and whether there's any connection between the two. It could be that this is just a copycat kind of thing this morning. It could be that it's part of an organized attempt at terrorism in other parts of the country.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: But, Jim, just to be absolutely clear, whether it's copycat or not, it's certainly happened in such approximate time to this original mass killing and the shooter was dressed very much like the killers in the "Charlie Hebdo" killing. So are they thinking that they're connected because the M.O.s were so similar?

BITTERMANN: Well, no one is saying that they're connected at the moment, but, you know, that's what the press may be saying. The fact is, the officials are not making that connection, but, you know, clearly you're absolutely right, the mode of operation was exactly the same in both cases. The gunman this morning, however, was not so inept that he left his I.D. card behind in the -- in his getaway, as the shooters did yesterday. So the police are not saying anything about who the suspect may be. I think they're less -- a lot -- they're going to have a lot more difficulty trying to track down the suspect from this morning's shooting just because he was masked and in black and difficult to identify. So he's on the run and we don't know exactly where.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then just quickly before I let you go, Jim, I did want to ask what they might be at least telling the public about what this third suspect at the mass killing has been able to share with police, because that young 18-year-old suspect turned himself in and clearly he's got to be a wealth of information.

BITTERMANN: Well, exactly. But we don't know how he relates to this whole picture here. We've got the two brothers and then we have this 18-year-old who was named right away by the police. They said they were after him. And yet, when they -- when he turned himself in, he had a seemingly perfect alibi. His classmates said he was in class yesterday when the shooting took place. So we're not clear about what the connection might be. However, he was held during the day today and I'm sure was questioned quite closely about what he might know about the attack here at "Charlie Hebdo."

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Jim Bittermann, do let us know the minute you hear any updates from Paris. And Atika Shubert, thank you for your reporting as well from northeast of the capital city as she continues to glean any details from that manhunt where she is in that forested area in rural northern France.

And joining me now to talk about the execution of this attack is CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes and CNN military analyst Colonel Rick Francona.

Welcome to you both.

Colonel Francona, if I could begin with you. There are so many different analyses that are coming in of the video, the cell phone video, that captured these attackers as they finished off their massacre. Some say it looked very, very professional, that they knew exactly what they were doing, that they had a high level of training. Others saying they looked a little like the Keystone Cops. Where do you fit in? RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Kind of in the middle. I think that when you look at the video, how they handled the weapons, they obviously knew -- were familiar with the weapon. They handled them correctly. When they went in and conducted the actual operation and when they were shooting, they weren't spraying bullets wildly. Sustained, semiautomatic fire. They knew who their targets were and they executed them in a pretty efficient manner.

Where they don't show great skill is the planning on how they were going to get out of there. First of all, this I.D. card that was dropped or left in a car, he should not even had an I.D. card. The escape plan should have had them moving to another area where they would have changed vehicles, where they had fuel, food, money, all the things that you're going to need. They wouldn't have to have gone to a gas station and robbed a gas station to get away. So I think their planning was really, really poor, although they do exhibit some level of familiarity with the weapon.

BANFIELD: You know, Tom Fuentes, maybe you could dovetail off that just to the notion that there was this carjacking really minutes from the scene of the massacre where there was a witness left behind, and then also this notion that there was a robbery at a gas station, you know, within 60 miles, I think, of Paris. Once again, a witness, and obviously a need for fuel and food.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Ashleigh, I agree with Rick completely on this. There's aspects of the attack that look very professionally done. The handling of the weaponry seems to be, you know, experienced shooters in carrying out the attack. But then these amateurish issues of leaving an identification in the car, unless that was a, you know, some kind of a trick and they stole the I.D. from somebody and left it in the car. But the various things that have happened since the initial attack of the identification, of the getaway car, of having to rob a gas station for gasoline and food, is extremely amateurish. So, you know, I think that, at this point we really don't know until we catch them what degree of training they had gotten and why they - why, in the aftermath of the initial attack, they've been so stupid.

BANFIELD: And, Rick, yesterday I asked my guest, because we were still in the midst of all of this, whether attackers like this who typically seem as though they're on suicide missions, really even put much effort into the plan, the plan b, the getaway plan. Does that look like that might be the case here?

FRANCONA: (INAUDIBLE) it looks to me like they did plan to get away, otherwise they'd have worn a suicide vest and blown up and killed everybody in the building. They went in after specific targets and they withdrew. They were wearing masks. They were wearing body armor. So they planned to survive this attack and get away. It's just, as we've been talking about, I don't think they had a very solid plan to get away.

BANFIELD: And to be clear, you know, to be very clear about this, Tom Fuentes, even though they may not be all that, even though they may not be skilled marksmen, they may very well know how to handle a weapon, they're clearly just as dangerous in a circumstance when police don't know exactly where they are.

FUENTES: Yes. Ashleigh, if I could add one more thing real quickly.

BANFIELD: Yes.

FUENTES: You know, it could be that this amateurish escape is their attempt to actually leave bread crumbs so the police can find them and then have the big shoot-out and the blaze of glory, blow up the apartment building that they're in, kill many more police officers, tactical officers. So that - you know, we don't know, but that's an outside possibility that they're luring the police in for a huge battle.

BANFIELD: Well, God hope that that's not the case. Tom Fuentes and Rick Francona, thank you both for your perspectives.

FRANCONA: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: While the authorities look for these suspects, the world is also trying to deal with the horrific and the awful reality of this attack and what it means for free speech and western society. Up next, I'm going to speak with an editorial cartoonist who says it is insane that his fellow cartoonists lost their lives simply for being funny.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: Breaking news right now on CNN. We're hearing that American security agencies, like the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, are now taking a much closer look at theirs list of high priority targets. Our Pamela Brown is live in Washington, D.C., right now.

Pamela, are they trying to draw any connections between people who might actually be living here or currently are here with what happened in Paris yesterday?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. That is their top concern that there could be a connection between some of these high priority targets living here in the U.S. and the suspects in Paris. So we know right now, as we speaks, Ashleigh, the FBI, DHS and intelligence agencies in the U.S. are scrubbing their databases, they're evaluating the high priority targets living in the U.S. following the terrorist attacks in Paris because whenever something like this happens, what happened in Paris, authorities want to make sure they tighten things up, that they're evaluating everything and making sure that there are no connections between the suspects here in the U.S., people they're keeping an eye on, and the people who were allegedly involved in the Paris attacks.

So these high priority targets include foreign fighters who U.S. officials are believed to have returned to the U.S. after fighting in Syria. Officials believe around 175 U.S. citizens have either gone to Syria, gone and returned, or attempted to go overseas. And so U.S. officials are, as we said, evaluating whether any of those people, the ones who they believe may have gone to Syria, and other high priority targets in the U.S. have any links to the Paris attacks. And U.S. law enforcement and intelligence officials are also evaluating whether they should take any action against these high priority targets but contacting them directly. A U.S. official with firsthand knowledge telling me that, you know, whenever you're investigating someone, you don't want to show your hand because, of course, that's how they collect intelligence. But in certain cases, the source says you may decide to do an interview with them and give them a head's up that they're on your radar to stop an imminent threat.

But right now, Ashleigh, they're waiting to get more information from French authorities on the suspects, on the attacks yesterday and then against the police officer in Paris to see if there are connections before they move forward with any sort of action.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So I just - I always hear they're looking at their high valued targets. They're looking at people who are here who have traveled abroad to be foreign fighters. And I just don't understand, what exactly do they do when there isn't a terror attack? How are people like that who are living amongst us being monitored currently?

BROWN: That's a good question. So authorities have a tier system set up. There are the tier one targets, there are tier two, tier three. So tier one are, of course, get the most attention and oftentimes those are the people who, as you point out, have returned from Syria that authorities believe were trained in Syria and could cause harm here in the U.S. So people like that who could pose an imminent threat are monitored 24/7.

But, Ashleigh the U.S. government simply just doesn't have the resources to monitor everyone they think could pose a big threat to the U.S. 24/7. It's just not realistic. A lot of times authorities rely on sources for cover. So sources that they've developed who are in the inside with a high level target who can keep the U.S. government officials apprised of what might be going on. So they rely a lot on sources and also their own manpower.

But, again, it's just not realistic to monitor everyone 24/7 who they believe could pose a threat. It's a judgment call and officials are constantly evaluating those people that are -- that they believe are high priority targets.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Pamela Brown live in our Washington bureau with some great reporting. Thank you for that.

Coming up, you have probably seen flashing across your screen all morning long different cartoonists and their response to what happened to the slaughter of their colleagues at "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. Well, this is a satirical magazine. It was meant to be funny. They were cartoons. Cartoons. But, you know what, sometimes, albeit funny, they're also poignant, clever and sharp as a tack and they can also capture the attention of a nation. Coming up, you're going to meet one of these cartoonists whose actual depiction today may have just hit the nail on the head.

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BANFIELD: What happened in Paris has left millions around the world shocked and saddened as well. But the people of France are tough and they are defiant and you can see that, that very strength, on the front pages of French newspapers today. Many of them showing unity with their industry that was attacked and, of course, their anger at the cowards who struck without warning and killed innocent people and then ran away and hid. Sometimes the best image is the artwork of the political cartoonists. A talented and sensitive cartoonist can capture an entire country's emotions and outrage all in one single picture.

Now, take a look at this one. It's very simple and it's very poignant and it's very viral as well. He drew first. The absurd notion that gunfire and violence and death is somehow a justifiable response to being embarrassed by a funny cartoon.

And this beautiful image, freedom of speech prevailing, despite a small number of people trying and failing to stop it.

The man who created that last picture is Michael de Adder and he is one of North America's most read political cartoonists and he works out of Halifax, Nova Scotia and he joins me live now.

Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. I know we have a technical issue and there's a long delay in our interview, but I do want to ask you a couple of questions if I can, Michael. The first being that "Charlie Hebdo" has committed itself to putting out next week's copy of the magazine despite losing a massive swath of its staff. Were you surprised to hear that they are going full steam ahead?

MICHAEL DE ADDER, POLITICAL CARTOONIST (via telephone): No, I'm not surprised. I actually - I - if I'm surprised at anything that they are committed to doing it so fast. I'm not surprised that they would continue with the magazine. It think the French public would not have it any other way.

BANFIELD: And do you expect that the thousands they are planning to print will turn into many more thousands that this magazine will be picked up by everyone?

DE ADDER: I think -- I think it will double in circulation, whatever the circulation is, was as of yesterday. I think - I think the world is pretty mad at what happened yesterday.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. You are typically the kinds of artists that work in solitude, in isolation. It's not really a team sport what you do. But that had to have changed somewhat yesterday. I'm wondering how your community has bonded, how you have linked and how you've communicated and what's been yielded from that.

DE ADDER: Well, you know, cartoonists are kind of like the drummer on a band. We're kind of like separate but within the - you know, we're part of this - of the team. But, you know, at conventions we certainly get together once a year, but this has certainly brought us together with the spirit of unity like nothing I've ever experienced. We're all very unified behind our anger, actually.

BANFIELD: You know, I'm looking at some other cartoonists renditions of, you know, what they thought of immediately after this massacre and how they depicted it on paper. I often wonder, how long does it take you before that image comes to your mind and then you're able to commit it to paper? How long did it take you to put your cartoon down today?

DE ADDER: Well, I can say that, for cartoonists, heavy days like yesterday, I mean they happen rather frequently, but they're very difficult to cartoon. You're trying to capture, in one image, what everybody is feeling. And yesterday was, you know, particularly hit home. I mean this is our profession, our - what we do for a living. Every day I go to the drawing board and draw a cartoon and, you know, people were shot for doing what I do. It was really quite something to actually sit down and then have to go back to work. It probably took me a couple hours to figure out exactly what I would do. But it - it -- once I - once -- it's funny because it was like difficult at first but then it just hit home. It just became kind of an inspiring moment when I started to actually draw.

BANFIELD: Inspiring is one way to certainly feel, but at the same time, prior to what happened yesterday, did you feel inoculated from this kind of threat or this kind of danger and are you feeling any more or less vulnerable today in your line of work?

DE ADDER: I mean, you know, it used to be that you would worry about, you know, a harshly worded letter to the editor or the threat of being sued. Ever since the Danish cartoon crisis from a couple years ago, you realize that an image can actually lead to a lot bigger repercussions. And it happening yesterday in France, it realized that, you know, somebody that's got a couple loose screws can all of a sudden come at you, you know? So, yes, it's changed it a bit, but I don't think it's affected our resolve to do our job.

BANFIELD: Well, I wish you great strength and -- especially in your position as a board member on the Cartoonists Rights International. Who knew there was such a need. And it turns out there is a more grave need today than there was yesterday.

Michael, thank you. Michael de Adder, I appreciate your time.

DE ADDER: Thank you very much. Have a good day.

BANFIELD: You as well. And appreciate your cartoon as well.

The nationwide manhunt's still underway in France at this hour. And just ahead, we're going to give you a live update on the latest clues that authorities are using to track down the two brothers, brothers, who are accused in yesterday's mass killing.

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