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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Latest on the Paris Terror Attack

Aired January 08, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Some of the very latest reporting now on the Paris terror attack. Right now a massive manhunt is underway for these two brothers. They are suspect being identified as Cherif and Said Kouachi, and they are considered extremely dangerous, and yet they armed as well.

Police do know, however, where they think they should be looking. Security checkpoints now set up on a 12-mile radius of a gas station northeast of the capital of Paris where the suspects were reportedly spotted by an attendant who worked there. He also reported the police that those suspects stole gas from him, stole food from him, and then headed back towards the capital city.

Also developing overnight, a policewoman there was shot and killed in a southern suburb of Paris. It's not known yet if there is a definitive connection between yesterday's massacre and the killing overnight but the witness, say that killer was dressed in the same old black outfit and also wearing a bulletproof vest.

It's hard to say this as well, but that gunman is also now on the loose. So they are now looking for three killers. In the meantime, bells have been chiming as France took a moment to remember the victims of yesterday's attack.

From the Notre-Dame Cathedral to Mosque (ph) around Paris, one of the busiest cities in the world grinds to a halt for a moment of silence. When we heard that the suspected gunman in the attacks were brothers, we couldn't help but turn our thoughts towards Tsarnaev brothers accused in the bombing at the Boston Marathon.

But unlike the Tsarnaevs, one of the Kouachi brothers spends some time in prison for ties to terrorism. CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson looks at what else we know about them.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Cherif Kouachi is 32, a French citizen with a criminal past in 2008. He was sentenced to t three years in prison for being part of a Jihadist recruitment ring in Paris that sent fighters to join the conflict in Iraq. He and another man were about to settle for Syria. From there, they planned to reach Iraq where war was raging, but he was arrested in 2005.

At the time, Cherif Kouachi's lawyer said his client was more of a pot-smoker from the project than an Islamist. The month after his arrest, Vincent Ollivier told the French newspaper Liberation, "He smokes, drinks, doesn't sport a beard and has a girlfriend before marriage." A trial, however, a different portrait of a young man coming under the influence of a radical Muslim creature at a mosque in Paris.

According to the French newspaper Le Monde, his basic training for Jihad to Iraq involve jogging in the park and learning the ins and outs of a Kalashnikov rifle from a man he met at the mosque.

At trial, he reportedly told the court, he was motivated by U.S. troops' abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq where U.S. soldiers post the photos with detainees in uncompromising positions.

Cherif Kouachi was convicted and sentenced in 2008 but Bloomberg TV reported he didn't actually go to prison after the trial. Half of his three-year sentence were suspended, the rest suspension pre-trial detention.

Two years later, 2010, he was charged in connection with a foiled (ph) plot to break an Algerian Islamist out of prison, a man who bombed the Paris commuter rail station in 1995. But prosecutors later dropped the charges reported Le Monde.

Cherif's older brother is Said, 34, also a French citizen. According to CNN affiliate, BFMTV, he left an ID document of the scene. Like Cherif, he was known to police.

In 2005, the Liberation newspaper reported the brothers were both staying in Paris with a Frenchman who converted to Islam. And in 2010, Said's name came up during the investigation into the prison break plot that according to Le Monde, there wasn't enough evidence to keep investigating him.

BANFIELD: And joining me live now is Nic Robertson. That was a great report and I saw a couple of frames of video of rap music and a rap video of one of the suspects. And I was wondering how much more you know about their background, the kind of people these brothers are.

ROBERTSON: Well, they clearly didn't feel that they were able to trust a lot of other people and that's perhaps one of the reasons that this plot was able to sort of get us far as it did into the sort of operational and action phase.

Again, this is not something uncommon with radical Islamists, the sort of brothers that bond together to form a circle of trust. That is one thing that's emerging here. Also, that perhaps they don't have a broader support network to help them after this attack. At least that's the image that's emerging now. We may learn more later.

But this rap video, again, indicative of just how hard it was to sort of counter tourism officials, if you would, to see through the smoke screen of an image that they were portraying which lies what's actually going on in their minds here, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yeah, you don't hear about radical Islamists who are pot smoking rap artists. I think that is one thing for certain. How about the third suspect that we're really not finding much out about, Hamyd Mourad? Giving himself up early to the police and likely spending the night in jail, what do we know?

ROBERTSON: An 18-year old in his final year at high school, not far north of Paris. Giving himself up, an indication there that he didn't -- he had no plans for whatever it was to go on the run. Perhaps didn't know this operation was coming out whatever his involvement was. But certainly didn't want to go up against armed police.

It kind of gives the indication here that, perhaps, he isn't as well- trained with weapons and wasn't prepared to stand and fight his ground or indeed maybe innocent as some of his classmates have tweeted (inaudible) this is the kid who was in class at school at the time and that couldn't have been involved in this.

So, at least for right now, he will be potentially providing the police and intelligence services with useful and timely information that may help to sort of corner the two brothers that are still on the run, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, that is certainly a mystery if his friends at school say he was at school. Perhaps, they're looking at him for other parts of the operation or perhaps not.

Nic Robertson, keep us posted and let us know when you hear further details on this. I appreciate that.

Earlier today, we learned the names, by the way, of the two police officers who were shot dead during that attack in Paris. You probably, by now, have seen this picture several times and the video. It's absolutely harrowing.

An officer lying wounded on the sidewalk with what looks to be his hands up. His name is Ahmed Merabet, 40 years old. And the French media is reporting that that man who's being executed was himself a Muslim.

The other officer we have not yet had a picture of him but we know now his name is Frank Brinsolaro, pardon me. He is currently 49 years old. He was a father and a brigadier, which is the equivalent rank of a police sergeant. He was specifically assigned to providing protection to VIPs and at the time he was killed he was providing protection to Charlie Hebdo, editor, who was also killed in the attack.

So, next up, you've seen the dramatic rooftop video. Harrowing images, again, of the Charlie Hebdo attackers and now you're going to hear what the man holding the camera has to say about the moments he witnessed live and the moments he captured live. And as we go break we take you live pictures right now from a Paris vigil that's going on right now in honor of the victims of yesterday's terror attack. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: By now you have probably seen the rooftop video of the Charlie Hebdo gunman, shooting as they ran and yelling "Allahu Akbar" as they thought, God is great. It was taken by a journalist who works in the same building that the Charlie staff had moved in to just several months ago. And last night he spoke with our Anderson Cooper.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When did you realize something was happening?

MARTIN BOUDOT, DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER: Well, a colleague of mine was going for a smoke outside and he told us that two guys, two persons were, you know, standing out and claimed they're getting two Kalashnikovs. So we heard the very first shots. And then, you know, more and more shots right across the, you know, the whole -- like five or six meters away. And ...

COOPER: That close?

BOUDOT: Yeah, it's basically the ...

COOPER: 15 (inaudible) meters.

BOUDOT: Yeah, it's like (inaudible).

COOPER: Did you know it's the only that they were shot?

BOUDOT: No. No, I mean, at first we just heard shots, we heard screams and then we tried to -- we tried to get on the roof and we did. And ...

COOPER: You ran up to the roof?

BOUDOT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we went to the roof and try to, you know, avoid bullets ...

COOPER: Right.

BOUDOT: ...from it and try to keep all the (inaudible) like 20 people in our (inaudible).

COOPER: It's incredible, though, on the video that you took and we're looking at some of it now, I mean, this went on for a number of minutes I think 5 to 10 minutes or so. Is that about how long it was?

BOUDOT: Yeah, from 5 to 10, at least. It seems like it was, you know, so much longer. And then the cops arrived and they start shooting at them and then we didn't know ...

COOPER: The police started shooting at them or the terrorist started shooting the police?

BOUDOT: The terrorist started shooting the police. And then we didn't know what we're supposed to do because, you know, we were on the top on this roof. We knew that there were victims a few minutes away from us but there might be, you know, some explosive somewhere or maybe a third guy. And they were yelling. So finally what we did, we went to Charlie Hebdo's office (inaudible) the very first doctors and we've got ...

COOPER: You actually entered the offices?

BOUDOT: Yeah, right after the -- I mean probably from 10 to 15 minutes after they left.

COOPER: And the scene there.

BOUDOT: You know, it was like a slaughter, it was like a massacre. You can see the bodies on the left into the meeting room and the other people from Charlie Hebdo were spared or were hiding and they were just standing like -- not a zombies but, you know, they were like standing and they didn't do anything and we tried to help the very first wounded but actually to be honest they were not a lot of wounded, there were just people dead around.

COOPER: When the shooting was occurring, did you see all three gunmen?

BOUDOT: No, I've only seen two of them.

COOPER: You saw two of them?

BOUDOT: Yeah.

COOPER: So you saw the two that actually entered the office?

BOUDOT: Yeah.

COOPER: Because the early report said that there was a third gunman but who is by the lookout staying on the street.

BOUDOT: I didn't see a third guy. I've only seen two guys shooting with very professional manners. I mean, I've been on the ground like you have seen, you know, I've seen how we manipulates riffles and they were manipulating like professional.

COOPER: They were using the riffles, holding the riffles correctly, shooting relatively, calmly?

BOUDOT: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they were having, you know, the shoulders on the riffle. They were just acting like a policeman. At first we would thought they were policemen.

COOPER: Really? It was that sort of organized?

BOUDOT: Yeah. Yeah, because nobody -- it was too -- you know, that was too unreal, to be true. And we felt that something was going on. Nobody really understood what (inaudible).

COOPER: Obviously two policemen were killed in this.

BOUDOT: Yes. COOPER: It is believed one of them was guarding the offices. Had you seen security for that office?

BOUDOT: Yes. We have seen police cars for the last couple of months but actually ...

COOPER: They just moved in about six months ago?

BOUDOT: Yeah, they moved in six months ago and a police car -- it was two policemen or three depending on days. They were outside the building and they were -- you know, days and nights they were just here.

These last few weeks, they were not here anymore. And from what I've heard to the Charlie Hebdo (inaudible) and we can see that I've talked with the -- they felt that the threat was a little, you know, less dangerous lately. It looks like something -- it was a little cooler if I may ...

COOPER: Things had seemed to settle down a little bit?

BOUDOT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but actually -- you know, that's why they were so surprised about what happen and we are all surprised. And I really want to, you know, tell them how I (inaudible) support them and all the journalists (inaudible), obviously you guys are here as well. But the French (inaudible) you have seen 100,000 people gather ...

COOPER: And extraordinary, and when you saw the crowds here in Paris in other places in France and also all throughout the world frankly.

BOUDOT: It's very touching. I mean, it's beyond words. I mean, that means a lot. That means a lot for us especially when, you know, it's about in the U.K, in the U.S or in Montreal ...

COOPER: If the idea was to silence freedom of expression to ...

BOUDOT: It failed.

COOPER: It failed?

BOUDOT: If they wanted to make Charlie Hebdo disappear, they actually made it a legend, you know. Charlie Hebdo is now a legend. And, well, thanks to them actually. And I think that's a good punishment (ph).

COOPER: Martin Boudot, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thank you. I'm sorry for you been through that. Thank you.

BANDFIELD: And cartoons had the power to provoke laughter for some and outrage for others. In response to the killings of its best known staffers, roughly a third of Charlie Hebdo's staff that magazine vows to keep on publishing the satirical cartoons that have grabbed the world's attention. You're going to get an update on that next and what comedians around the world are doing in response.

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BANFIELD: Some breaking news, the French interior minister has just announced that so far, they cannot establish a link between the killing of a policewoman in a southern Paris suburb and that horrible attack of a Charlie Hebdo magazine building.

The minister is still speaking so we'll let you know if he has any further news if he in fact makes those comments. But in the meantime, the newspapers in France, even the magazine that was attacked yesterday are bravely standing up to the terrorist forces that so seemingly hate them. And this how they're doing it. They're doing it with ink. They're working, they're writing, they're publishing, they're drawing and they're putting their fingers in the faces of the extremist who lashed out with violence at free press and free speech.

More cartoons format that this attackers find so offensive. This one showing a journalist's most basic tool broken but yet coming back even stronger. And this one, very simple, the words most seen on the covers and cartoons everywhere in France today, Je suis Charlie. I am Charlie in French.

Brian Stelter is here, our Senior Media Correspondent. Also Dean Obeidallah, political writer and comedian who is of Arab descent, also a lawyer. And you seem to have your finger on this of a lot of what's going on sort of in the comedic (ph) world.

I want to get to that in a moment but first you got some breaking news on exactly what's happening in terms of the publication of Charlie Hebdo.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: We've been talking about meetings (ph) go underway to get this magazine back up and running and have it be published next week, next Wednesday. There is talk about a million print run, it's up from about 60,000 ...

BANFIELD: A million?

STELTER: ...for a normal issue. That's what the lawyer has said today in Paris. They want to print a million copies. And how are they going to do that?

BANFIELD: And again, they are roughly 16,000.

STELTER: Usually, 60,000 copies a week. So, you know, usually it has a web presence in a print run, much bigger print run plan. But how are they going to do it? How are they going to afford it?

Well, we're starting to see groups coming forward wanting to help. There's a press fund created by Google and some French publications that is plugging (ph) support, reportedly up to $250,000 in support. Google is not confirming the number but they are confirming they are offering support. And I think we're going to see many others do this as well.

BANFIELD: Just to be clear, did you see 16 or 60? STELTER: 60. Six-zero.

BANFIELD: Six-zero. So, still an enormous increase.

STELTER: That's usually a pretty small run. They're hoping to print a million copies of this next week. And if Google and others (inaudible) might help that, then that's all about it.

BANFIELD: And they have a staff typically of somewhere around 20 to 30 and they just lost each of them, most of the senior executives.

STELTER: That's right. I have a feeling that maybe some former staffers might be helping out, maybe some rival publications as well.

BANFIELD: To add to this. So Dean, I know you're working the phone and social media last night. You have a terrific web of global friends and colleagues in the comedian world and that you were able to sort of glean the response from a lot of people particularly Arab and Muslim comedians and even those who aren't.

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, POLITICAL COMEDIAN AND WRITER: Sure. And I did. And I'm writing an article (inaudible) and opinion about that, in fact, based on the responses. Although normally, comedians, (inaudible) said we're going to be more defined. In light of this we're going to be as critical, politically as possible. And I ask them a more challenging questions, will you do jokes about the Prophet Mohammad?

Now, I'm (inaudible) Muslim, I don't know what the big deal is. I don't do jokes about Jesus. I don't -- I do jokes about extremists. I do jokes about ISIS and Al Qaeda which are more threatening than the Prophet Mohammad.

When I ask them that, mostly they probably want (ph) because they have not before but they echoed when I say, the people we should be targeting, it's not the Prophet Mohammad who died 1500 years ago, it's the people killing people today. It's ISIS and Al Qaeda and mocking them, to me is more braver for those comedians who wants in the Muslim worlds if they're continue to do that, and non-Muslim comedians here and Muslim comedians over states.

BANFIELD: You got to show us, we'll coming up for a lot of comedians, the Big Brown Comedy?

OBEIDALLAH: The Big Brown Comedy show, we did every few months. I produced it in New York. It's a brown mix, Arab, Indian, Pakistani, not Muslim per say but most (inaudible) happens to be a Muslim.

Our next show happens to be January 18th. We're going to give the proceeds to a charity involved with Hebdo, with the publication or with the families. It's just a gesture, it might be a couple of thousand dollars but we want to make it clear as brown people and as Muslims that freedom of expression is that important. And that we have to stand united for that.

BANFIELD: Not just and this is pretty early but in terms of the producing of it, is there anything that is planned in terms of doing something that's provocative or exactly what's the issue here?

OBEIDALLAH: We do the show every few months. It was already planned before this. The comics have the freedom to do say everything they want. Some other comics are Muslim and are very edgy. You know, as (inaudible) the Daily Show is supposed to be in this show. It should be a great show.

BANFIELD: OK, I only have a couple of seconds left. But Brian, just quickly, is there much talk about those who were now suggesting it is time to start printing these things provocative or not because it flies in the face of being coward -- or cowed (ph) and bullied into not being journalist?

STELTER: Well, in particular, images of the Prophet Mohammad, that is a taboo and that is something most media outlets have not. We have seen some websites in the last 24 hours published live shows. It include some of these images in the magazine published, CNN and most others are not, partly out of safety concerns, out of awareness that there are crews all over the world, lots of reporters and lots of places, even if it's just a -- even if it stretch to suggest they could be in danger, it's not risk of that many major outlets want to take.

BANFIELD: And it is a very difficult ...

STELTER: You know, the head of our network said this morning in our (inaudible) said that journalisibly (ph) yes, we want to show them. But we as a manager, to make that decision, you know, it is to put people in risk, that can't be done.

BANFIELD: We have hundreds of employees all over world and it is a very difficult decision and it remains a difficult decision for anybody in his shoes ...

STELTER: Right.

BANFIELD: ...in this kind of line of work sadly, very sadly. Dean, thank you. I appreciate it...

OBEIDALLAH: Sure.

BANFIELD: ... so much. And as always, Brian, thank you as well. And thank you everyone for watching. It's nice to have you with us. Please stay with us on CNN as we continue our breaking news coverage. My colleague Wolf Blitzer starts right after the break.

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