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French Jews Urged to Move to Israel; Boko Haram Massacres Thousands; One Flight 8501 Black Box Found

Aired January 12, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I don't think so, Carol. There's no evidence that shows anything about any kind of explosion. I think what they might be referring to if you look at the sides of the aircraft, it appears as though the top of the aircraft was opened up from the inside out, which would be indicative of a very hard, fast landing and it could have hit the water, thereby the differential pressure between the aircraft on the inside and the outside would have caused a rupture and rupture would be a much more adequate term to use than explosion certainly.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So the air pressure inside the plane could have built up and that would have caused a rip in the fuselage?

SOUCIE: Well basically, if you think of any hollow object hitting anything very hard, that hollow object is going to change its pressure and kind of rupture on the top. That's kind of what I think they are referring to here.

We don't have the black boxes. We don't really know how it hit the water yet. We can speculate a few things. There's been some investigators that have said that it looks like it did a steep spiral and may have exceeded the V&E which is the velocity not to exceed on the aircraft on the way down. If that happens, then the aircraft would have lost specific parts of the aircraft on the way down like an engine would have come off that sort of thing if it exceeded V&E by too much.

COSTELLO: Right.

SOUCIE: So they are speculating from that that the aircraft then hit the water. Some people are saying that it skipped across the water. I don't see that. I think that all the parts of the aircraft are located within about a mile of each other. And had the aircraft skipped across the water, that wouldn't explain how close they are together.

To me it looks as thought it was a steep, hard impact and that thereby rupturing the air frame.

COSTELLO: Another investigator said the left side of the plane disintegrated. If that's true, what would that tell you?

SOUCI: I'm not sure I would go down that road. There are parts of the left side of the airplane that are there. What it appears to me is left side of the aircraft buckled and you can see that evidence on the aircraft as you look below the windows. You can see that the aircraft buckled.

Now, it's too early to speculate on that because it appears to me also that that's the type of damage you might see in retrieving the aircraft improperly or getting in too much of a hurry to lift it out of the water. Because as you do that, if it's not supported properly, it can cause damage as aircraft comes out of the water.

So the people that are saying that this happened or that happened at this point is premature because we don't know if that damage was caused at impact or if it was caused during the retrieval process which is something that can happen as people get a little overzealous at trying to pull the aircraft out of the water it can cause some damage if it's not properly supported as it comes up even just from 100 feet.

COSTELLO: I heard what you said about the body of the plane. You expect it to be about a mile away from where they found the tail section of the plane. The families are very concerned that investigators haven't been able to locate the body of the plane but they pulled up the tail. They found one of the black boxes. So why can't they locate the biggest part of the plane?

SOUCIE: Well, that's a really good question -- Carol. There are still some questions in my mind as to why they haven't found it. I believe it's nearby. Investigators I'm speaking to on site have told me that they have confidence that what they are seeing right now is the rest of the airplane. They are still dealing with murky waters down there. They are hesitant to put out information that our sonar definitely found anything because as you remember before they said that and it turned out it was a ship wreck from before.

There's a lot of other debris in the ocean. They are very hesitant to put anything out saying this is definitely what we have. They are pretty confident that they found something so it's a matter of some optimistic thoughts about it. But I think really at this point it's just -- they are being hesitant about being confident about anything until they literally see it and it's hard to see in those murky waters.

COSTELLO: Understandable. David Soucie, many thanks as always. I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, stand strong or get out. Some members of the Jewish community in Europe think it's time to go. The offer the Israeli prime minister is making next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Carol Costello.

France ratchets up its security after three days of bloody terror attacks; 10,000 troops are fanning out across the country to guard sensitive sites. At that same crisis meeting, the French President Hollande and his ministers also ordered about 5,000 police to guard Jewish schools and remain vigilant against a terrorist attack. We also know more about the brothers who launched that rampage at the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine offices. They spent time together in Yemen -- a hot bed of radical Islam. Many officials say they were there for three months.

And the manhunt continues for the woman first suspected as a possible accomplice in the attack in the kosher grocery store after French police said she may have escaped with hostages. A news agency in Turkey says she may not have been in France at the time of the attack.

I would like to bring in my colleague Jim Sciutto -- he's in Paris this morning. Good morning, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Earlier today here Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited that kosher market where those four Jewish victims were gunned down on Friday. Netanyahu is seen here lighting a candle during that brief visit. He's also made it known that French Jews thinking about leaving France after the attack are more than welcome to make Israel their new home.

This all comes as all four victims are being returned to Israel to be laid to rest tomorrow. Carol, I'll turn it back over to you because one major concern here and it's been happening before even these attacks has been the threat of anti-Semitic attacks here. There's been other acts of violence in recent months and that's already led a number of French Jews to choose to go to Israel. It's a real concern here, Carol.

COSTELLO: And stick with me for just a minute, Jim because before we jump right into it. I want to know what the real feeling is in Paris, in France, among Jewish people there. Is there a big exodus of Jewish people? Do lots and lots of Jewish people want to leave France? What's the mood there?

SCIUTTO: You know, it's a great question, Carol because I spoke to the heads of the Jewish student union yesterday and asked them this very question. They made the point that in the last year about one percent of France's Jewish population has chosen to go to Israel in response of this rise of anti-Semitism. But keep in mind that means 99 percent are choosing to sty and asked those student leaders what's their reaction to Prime Minister Netanyahu's offer to emigrate in effect to Israel.

And they said -- you know what -- actually we want Jews to stay here. We've been here for hundreds of lease we have a long history here. We don't want to run away. That would be a sign of victory for the terrorists. Their reaction is like we've seen so often here and really just across the country among French of all religions and faiths and ethnicities, they want to show defiance in the face of terrorism, they don't want to run away.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Sciutto thanks so much.

Let's talk more about this with Joshua Runyan; he's editor in chief of the Baltimore Jewish Times and Jewish Chronicle in Pittsburgh. Thanks so much you for being with me.

JOSHUA RUNYAN, BALTIMORE JEWISH TIMES: Thank you for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here. So talk about anti-Semitism in Europe. Is it different than -- worse, I should day -- than it is in America?

RUNYAN: I think what you have with anti-Semitism in Europe is you have this violent expression of anti-Semitism which we saw last week in Paris. We saw several years ago in 2012 with shooting of a Jewish school in Toulouse, also in France. A couple of months ago there was actually a Jewish couple that was targeted. They were robbed. The woman was raped in a neighborhood in Paris, actually a suburb of Paris, and the attacker said that they attacked them because they knew that they were Jewish.

However, the anti-Semitism in Europe is not all that different than anti-Semitism as it appears in the United States. Historically there has been a group of people who have recognized in the Jewish community that the Jews are somewhat other, a community apart and so we saw that in Kansas City earlier this year with the shooting of a Jewish community center.

More to the point, I think what is different about what happened with the shooting at "Charlie Hebdo" and then followed quickly by the shooting later at the kosher supermarket, is that people are starting to recognize that what is going on here is a civilizational conflict. That the jihadists from their point of view it's not just the Jews they are targeting, although they have been targeting Jews leading up to this. Now with the attack at "Charlie Ebdo" they are really going after all of Western civilization.

I think that helps explain this strain in the Jewish community that while Israel has traditionally, historically in modern times been a place for a shelter, a place of safety for Jews in danger whether it be from Ukraine or from France earlier decades ago it was from Arab nations, you have as well Jews who have been in their home countries for centuries, France is one of the largest Jewish communities outside of Israel; historically one of the oldest Jewish communities since the destruction of the Jewish presence in Israel 2,000 years ago.

And people are recognizing that they want to stay. If 100,000 Jews -- this was the statement from French Prime Minister Manuel Valls. If 100,000 Jews from France leave, that's a defeat for France. That's a defeat for Western Society and quite frankly that's what defeat for this historic Jewish community.

COSTELLO: Jim, I know you want to ask a question. Go ahead.

SCIUTTO: Josh, I wonder if I can ask. Because one difference between Europe and U.S. is that this anti-Semitic feeling, but also, anti- immigrant feeling, et cetera, real bigotry has real representation in some of the political parties here, the "National Front" here in France, but others in other countries, that get a real support in national elections; 10 percent; 15 percent. We saw that in the most recent national elections last year. It's really remarkable, I think; and I wonder how much of a concern that is to European Jews, French Jews, that voting pattern shows that there are others that feel they have a party that represents that anti-Semitic point of view.

RUNYAN: Well, I mean look, I Europe you don't have to look too far back when growth of a far right ideology resulted in the mass murder of 6 million Jews during the holocaust. So Europe has that strain. It's concerning to Jews not only in Europe but around the world that parties that espouse ideology consistently get support from the populous. And we now see that already people are saying that they identify more in the wake of the "Charlie Hebdo" shooting with Marine La Pen.

However, I mean, that's a concern around the world. But in the United States, there still exists even though the Jewish community is assimilated in a way it's not in Europe, we have Jewish politicians, we have Jewish acceptance in society, there's still a latent anti- Semitism that I think has to be called out for what it is.

COSTELLO: All right. I'm going to have to leave it there.

Joshua Runyan and Jim Sciutto -- thanks so much.

I have to get now to breaking news. All right. Breaking news with Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown -- she has new information on one of the terrorists in Paris. Tell us more.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That' right. Carol. We had just We just learned that Amedy Coulibaly had been in the data government Terrorist Data Known as tie. This is base of known and suspected international terrorists for quite some time, this is according to a senior U.S. law enforcement official we spoke with. It's unclear why he was put in that data base. We do know Carol that he was arrested and convicted a few years ago for apparently trying to help an Algerian escape from prison.

Now as far as his alleged accomplish, the woman we know about -- it's unclear at this point if she was on that list. The source tells me though that as far as getting to her at this point, it would be very difficult if not impossible. Over the weekend we know sources told CNN it's believed that she went to Turkey. Apparently to go to Syria days before the Paris attacks. Also, the source telling me Carol, it's not yet completely clear if the terror suspects were directed by ISIS or al Qaeda to carry out the attacks or just influence at some level.

That echoes, of course, what we heard from Attorney General Eric Holder who told our Gloria Borger on Sunday but it's unclear yet if AQP actually directed the attack -- Carl.

COSTELLO: This woman on the run, I thought Turkish authorities had been tracking her.

BROWN: Well, that's right. Turkish sources told CNN that it's believed that made it to their country early January and then as the source said obviously to go to Syria. We know turkey is the gateway into Syria. So from talking to sources, Carol, from my sources and other reporters' sources, it's clear that it's going to be very, very difficult to get to this woman especially if she did make it into Syria.

COSTELLO: All right. Justice correspondent Pamela Brown, thanks so much. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In the shadow of the Paris attacks, one of the deadliest terrorist massacres in history carried out -- Boko Haram murdering what's feared to be as many as 2,000 people in Nigeria since the beginning of the New Year.

One of the nation's most recent attacks, unspeakably grim; on Saturday explosives were strapped to the chest of a 10-year-old girl and then detonated at a crowded marketplace. 20 were killed. And although no one has claimed responsibility, Boko Haram is the main suspect.

Joining me now to talk about this is Adotai Akwei Amnesty International's advocacy director for Africa. Good morning sir. Thank you for being with me.

ADOTAI AKWEI, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL'S ADVOCACY DIRECTOR FOR AFRICA: Thank you.

COSTELLO: It's just hard to wrap your head around -- a 10-year-old girl being used in this way. It's just unspeakably cruel.

AKWEI: Yes. Unfortunately it is emblematic of Boko Haram's approach which has been opportunistic violence against perceived exponents or agents of Western culture and education as well as local villagers and local population who are Muslim. I think the Boko Haram methodology of terror and violence is really just becoming much more stark.

COSTELLO: Nic Robertson reported that it appears that these little girls did not know what was about to happen to them. They might have been kidnapped from a village after their parents were killed.

AKWEI: That is correct. You may remember that in April of last year nearly 300 girls were kidnapped from an elementary school in Chibok (ph) another village and of course, there were abductions since then and the girls have not been found. The Nigerian government has not really either initiated or communicated an effective plan of action either to retrieve the girls or to protect the civilian population.

COSTELLO: Why? Why?

AKWEI: There are all sorts of theories. I think there's one fact that the Nigerian military is underequipped and suffers from low morale and that's as a result of years of corruption and diversement of supply and in fact when the attack proceeding the massacres, the Nigerian forces fought for several hours and then ran out of ammunition. There's the corruption issue. The morale issue is much more troubling because it's both reflective of the political leadership's shortcomings as well as the strategy that has been implemented in the north which is very harsh and targets all male Muslims as being suspected supporters of Boko Haram until they can prove their innocence.

COSTELLO: What can be done?

AKWEI: Well, the government, I think has to really sort of revisit its strategy. It has to I think address the impediments to the kind of assistance that it needs primarily its record of human rights abuse and lack of accountability. It's also got to, I think, really take the regional cooperation with surrounding states to a much, much more effective level. Most importantly, it's got to be more transparent about what it's trying to do and where it needs help.

COSTELLO: Adotai Akwei, thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it. I'll be right back.

AKWEI: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Freedom of expression was at the forefront of several celebrity's minds during the Golden Globes last night.

Brian Stelter joins me now and the focus of the night wasn't what you were wearing or who won. It was really. What's your favorite social issue?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CONSULTANT: Beginning on the red carpet. Hellen Mirren with a vent thin. Reflecting and solidarity with France. We heard Jared Leto on the show give a shout-out to France. And then I thought the most explicit part was George Clooney speaking. Here is what he said while accepting a lifetime achievement award.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: Today was an extraordinary day. There were millions of people that marched not just in Paris but around the world. And there were Christians and Jews and Muslims. They were leaders of countries all over the world.

And they didn't march in protest. They marched in support of the idea that we will not walk in fear. We won't do it. So "Je suis Charlie". Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STELTER: He was also wearing a button that was the same message on it and so was his wife, Amal. So that got some attention on the red carpet. A couple of photographers actually brought Charlie signs.

COSTELLO: I'm still trying to get over the George Clooney got a lifetime achievement award. He's 53.

STELTER: Yes. He's done a lot I guess. I would say his wife has done more but that was a joke that Tina Fey and Amy Poehler made earlier in the evening. By the way I thought it was interesting. Tina and Amy went there. They brought up Bill Cosby. They made several jokes at his expense. They were deriding him in the light of all these sexual assault allegations against them. It was a rather provocative evening.

Now whether it's support for Charlie Hebdo or there were jokes about Bill Cosby or the wins. Or some of the wins, you know, an Amazon Show about a transgender character winning one of the biggest Golden Globes. These awards definitely supported freedom of expression and a lot of provocative ideas -- who's chosen.

COSTELLO: and not the challenge this year though. That's a good thing.

STELTER: Maybe that's the headline.

COSTELLO: Although some people might not like it because they want to escape. I kind of like when things are --

STELTER: There were pretty people and pretty things.

COSTELLO: Brian Stelter, thanks so much.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "@this hour with Berman and Michaela after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Ahead at this hour, the aftermath of a massacre. Paris uniting to confront radical Islam Paris uniting to confront radical Islam while French Jews fear a new wave of anti- Semitism brewing.

3000 miles away from Paris and another radical Islamist group --