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Survivors of Boston Marathon Bombing Rattled by Attacks in Paris; Dutch Radicalization Hotline for Parents Fearing Child Will Join ISIS

Aired January 13, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here's something I have been thinking about. When you see just the picture from over the weekend of the -- I think it was like 46 different world leaders walking along in that unity rally, linked arms, you have now this cover of "Charlie Hebdo" essentially saying, with the Prophet Mohammed, then above saying, we forgive you, I'm wondering if that is the powerful, the, if I may, pointing a middle finger at these terrorist groups, or at the same time legitimizing them, galvanizing them, Bobby and Hamilton.

Bobby, to you first.

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think this particular cover within the universe of "Charlie Hebdo" and their treatment of the prophet over the years, this is perhaps the most conciliatory one they have done.

It would have been impossible, given the nature of French satire, given what's happened at "Charlie Hebdo," it would have been impossible for them, frankly, to produce a magazine that did not have the prophet depicted in some way. It is still going to offend vast numbers of Muslims.

But this is -- and it's no consolation to say this, but this is the least offensive depiction they've ever done of the prophet Muhammad in my reading of it.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hamilton, final thought from you.

HAMILTON NOLAN, AUTHOR, TERRORISM WORKS: I think the "Charlie Hebdo" cover is great. I think it's pretty heroic of them to come out with a cover like that. And I think that they are a positive example of how the press can act in response to terrorism. And a counterexample would be all the news outlets that are afraid to show these images. That's exactly what the terrorists want. And I applaud "Charlie Hebdo" for standing up to that.

BALDWIN: I respect your opinion. But sitting here at CNN, we and other major networks, unlike some of these other people who are posting these cartoons, have people and crews in the Middle East. It is number one. It is a safety issue because it is very offensive to very, very many Muslims. And number two, it is a long-standing policy here at CNN that we do not show anything that would be offensive to any one religion. That's the CNN stance.

Hamilton Nolan, thank you very much. Bobby Ghosh, thank you.

Next, the survivors of the Boston marathon bombing said to be rattled by these attacks in Paris. I'll speak with two men who have interviewed so many of these survivors. They've written this book. They've gone on this cruise, this floating therapy with a lot of these survivors to France. We'll talk to them next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: There is absolutely no question the support Americans have for the French right now. But one very specific group of Americans can feel these attacks in a way most of us could never fathom. Talking about the survivors of the Boston marathon bombings from 2013. Three people were killed, more than 260 wounded, many of whom had to have arms, legs amputated.

My next guest wrote a book about the devastation and healing in the great city of Boston. It is called "Boston Strong, a city's triumph over tragedy." Authors Dave Wedge and Casey Sherman join me from Boston.

Gentlemen, congratulations on what I'm sure is a fantastic book and nice to see you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Brooke. I appreciate you having us on.

BALDWIN: I know that you all have spoken with so many of these survivors to obviously write your book. But just recently in the wake of what happened in Paris, you've been in touch with some of them who I'm sure this resonates in a much different way than the rest of us.

DAVE WEDGE, CO-AUTHOR, BOSTON STRONG: Yes, well, as you might imagine, you know, PTSD is a major issue with a lot of these survivors. You know, we saw it with 9/11. And other international terrorism incidents act as a trigger for that. So I know that a lot of the survivors that we've spoken to and had become close have expressed to us that first of all they feel for the folks in Paris, and they really, you know, they understand what they're going through.

But on a personal level, it's affected them and it's brought back a lot of the issues that they had to deal with on April 13th, 2013. And not lost on any of them is the similarities between the attacks where you got two brothers here in Boston and two brothers there in Paris and kind of random attacks on these innocent folks.

CASEY SHERMAN, CO-AUTHOR, BOSTON STRONG: And Brooke, we have a very interesting perspective about the relationship between the marathon survivors and the French people. Dave and I were actually the only journalists to travel with these survivors to France a year ago for a healing cruise. And it's amazing, Brooke, because they told us as they were going, it was a very high-profile trip. And they were very nervous about it because they thought that because they had all gathered in one place, that there were terrorists out there that, quote/unquote, "could finish the job." We never realized how serious a threat that really was. BALDWIN: And that's the thing. That's what I'm so mindful of.

Because, Dave, I remember when I was in Boston in April. And I think you called it, like, floating therapy. And that's when so many of these survivors were able to look at photographs, to share stories. This was right around Christmas time. I remember you telling me about this.

And I'm also mindful of all those who survived like this cartoonist who spoke today through tears, who survived the attack in Paris. What did some of these survivors have to go through, endure that some of these in Paris will have to go through as well?

WEDGE: Well, I mean, first and foremost, survivors guilt is a huge issue when you have attacks like this. We have some stories of folks in our book that were things a little different, their life could have been lost, or they could have lost a limb.

And really, what we saw on that cruise in France and in our research getting to know these folks is that everybody that was involved and got injured, it could have been always been worse. The folks that didn't get hurt at all look at the folks that did and feel some survivors guilt. And those who maybe lost a limb feel like they're lucky they didn't lose their life.

So there's just so many levels of issues that are going on with these folks. And that's what they're going to be dealing with there in Paris. There's going to be folks that, you know, they could have been shot and killed if maybe they didn't stop for a coffee. That sort of thing.

BALDWIN: That was the issue with this cartoonist who survived to wrote now, who drew the cover of this "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. He happened to be late for work that day.

Casey, just what about just in general this book, these accounts, this connection with France, do you even know if any of these Boston survivors will be reaching out to anyone in Paris just to help? I know so many people reached out to those in Boston.

SHERMAN: Absolutely. We do. We do know of one survivor that is making plans for a trip to Paris to show that solidarity between the city of Boston and the city of Paris. So that's going to be a very moving journey for that one survivor. But I can tell you that the survivors that we've been talking to, they feel, you know, a certain sense of camaraderie, solidarity with the people of France, with the people of Paris. The city of Boston was, you know, literally blown apart during the Boston marathon bombings, but our book "Boston Strong" is really about the recovery and the healing process of these survivors and how they're coping with their injuries, with their PTSD, as Dave said, and moving on with their lives or at least trying to.

WEDGE: And look, when things like this happen, Brooke, like here in Boston, one of the first things we saw was how the New York police department responded and came up to Boston and they set up trauma teams to deal with issues the Boston police officers were dealing with. So we expect that Boston will reciprocate that in some fashion with the people of Paris.

BALDWIN: I just still hear that announcer at the Boston starting line last April saying, let's take back that finish line. The book is coming out. It's called "Boston Strong: a city's triumph over tragedy."

Gentlemen, I want a copy. Pretty pleased. Dave Wedge, Casey Sherman, thank you p. Thank you.

SHERMAN: Thank you.

WEDGE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, children and teenagers trying to join ISIS. Huge concern for parents, obviously. In one place, there's actually now a hotline that's been set up for parents to call.

And next, a man who hid in a cardboard box while gunmen took his workplace hostage in France. He tells his story. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Before they were killed last week in a spray of police bullet, the Kouachi brothers responsible for that massacre at the "Charlie Hebdo" French magazine offices, they invaded a printing factory near pass Paris and they quickly let this one hostage go. But we're now learning today that there was, in fact, a second hostage. And this hostage managed to survive, even feed police key information. He apparently survived by crouching for more than eight hours under a sink. He's now recounting his frightening ordeal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I want to say thank you. He gave me the seconds I needed to hide. If they had discovered that I was -- if there had been two hostages, things might have been different. Perhaps they would have kept us to the end.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): That moment, did you say to yourself, I'm done?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, I thought he would look in all the furniture. If he's looking for something, for food supplies, so he went towards the fridge and came back towards the place where I was hiding and he drank some water. He was drinking just above me. I could hear the water flowing because I was right next to the wash basin. I saw his shadow through the door opening. I moved a bit because my back was stuck against a pipe that was leaking. I felt the water flowing. A surreal moment. Completely surreal. And I said to myself, this is like a film.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You know, we keep hearing the stories of young people, even teenagers trying to join ISIS. So what can parents do if their child wants to become a terrorist or run off to join Al-Qaeda? There's actually a hotline that's been set up. For that, those details are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: As we're learning about more and more young Muslims leaving the west to train with extremists in places like Yemen, a unique solution has now been developed in the Netherlands. It's called the Dutch radicalization hotline.

Hotline, yes. This is a phone number mothers and fathers can call if they fear their son or daughter is falling under the influence of radical Islam and considering fleeing home to the Middle East.

Nadette De Visser wrote about his in "the Daily Beast. " Nadette joins me from Amsterdam.

And Nadette, I mean, it's a fascinating read, this notion of actually setting up a hotline. How exactly does this work?

NADETTE DE VISSER, CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, it's very interesting initiative. It started from the community, the Moroccan community in the Netherlands itself. And it is basically a phone line that people can call into, and they will find different volunteers who are all based in different cities around Netherlands. And people can call in if they have any kind of questions about the process their kids are going through really.

BALDWIN: Forgive me. You quote, just in part of your piece, I know one of the managers of the hotline told I this, quote, "a young father called me because his young son vanished a few days ago. He said I don't care if you have him arrest. He'd rather have his child in jail than in the hands of ISIS.

Are there more young Muslims, you know, in the Netherlands leaving to join what they call jihad from, you know, the Netherlands or even like Belgium? And what kinds of communities are they really coming from?

DE VISSER: Yes, it's a quite substantial problem, actually, if you look at the figures. It's relatively alarming in the sense that the Netherlands and Belgium are two relatively small countries with a community that is less than 1.5 million Muslims. And the figure of people actually traveling to Syria and Iraq is estimated about 400 to 500 young people, conservative figures which is a lot if you compare it to France, which is a much bigger country with a community of Muslims of around seven million, which has only about 700 to 800 people actually having left.

BALDWIN: But then, Nadette, of those numbers, you also write specifically about the attraction and we have done an entire segment on this of about young women who are lured by the self-proclaimed Islamic state. Why is that?

DE VISSER: Yes. Well, I talked to two representatives from the radicalization hotline, and what they described to me is lately there have been more women traveling towards Syria and Iraq to join jihadist groups. What I was -- the profile of these young women is basically that if you are consider the fact that they are coming from relatively conservative backgrounds where they are expected to be harmonizing and obedient, they -- that's what their family expects of them. But the moment they go into Dutch society, they have a completely different things are expected from them, like they should be emancipating or they should be standing up for their rights. And this is sort of a conficteous (ph) expectation.

So -- and if you then look at what the propaganda of, for instance the ISIS, sort of sends out through different social media channels is that if they joined jihadist pool, they can be this independent, strong woman who can actually take up arms against infidels. And on the hard --

BALDWIN: Hard to imagine that. It is hard to imagine that sort of allure and the trap really.

Nadette De Visser with "the Daily Beast," thank you so much on this hotline that's now been set up for parents. Thank you.

Next, trial of the century. Twenty years later, hear what one key player O.J. Simpson's house guest Kato Kaelin anyone? What is he doing now? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

((BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATO KAELIN, WITNESS IN O.J. SIMPSON CASE: I heard a thumping noise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many thumps it did you hear?

KAELIN: Three.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Simpson's shaggy house guest, Kato Kaelin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever expect what was going to happen when you got up there and took the stand in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not at all. It was my first time in a courtroom in my entire life. I think I was 35 at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kaelin's four days on the stand thrust him into the national spotlight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I even come up with things that never has a man dob done so little to be recognized by so many.

JAY LENO, COMEDIAN: He said that O.J.'s maid never really liked him. Sure, she had to work for her room and board.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was Kato Kaelin so memorable?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's an idiot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's so full of (bleep). Sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's pretty harsh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a matter of fact, when we were doing our deliberations, he was like an no-brainer, no guy is an idiot. Nothing we can go with or against. He was null and void.

KAELIN: I was called so many things. I was called a celebrity. I was called a pariah. I was called a traitor. I was called the dummy. I was called a freeloader.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like you feel like you were pretty much misunderstood for a really long time.

KAELIN: One hundred percent misunderstood. This was something I took so serious that I was making sure that I answered everything correctly. So I was in deep thought going, OK, get this right, Kato. And that was it. If you pause, people go, he's making something up. He's lying. He's doing this. Furthest thing from the truth. It's for me to become even more honest, for me to make sure I answer this thing 100 percent honest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Kato Kaelin. We all remember his name, Kyra Phillips.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We do.

BALDWIN: You got this documentary tonight.

PHILLIPS: We kind of do the inside scoop on all of the players with whom I interview with that really became characters in this trial, this drama unfolded, right? So Kato definitely one of the most misunderstood. So you know, what he did?

BALDWIN: What?

PHILLIPS: He has taken all that criticism 20 years later. He is like forget you. I'm going to embrace that inner slacker. You guys all called me a slacker. And he developed loungewear. There is you go. There is your loungewear, room for your TV remote. You have "slacker" on your leg.

BALDWIN: OK. This is the Kato Kaelin is up to.

PHILLIPS: And he's doing very well and he's happy.

Now, Johnny Cochran, the famous line, right, the gloves in the courtroom, if it doesn't fit, you must quit, he never wrote that. That wasn't his line. He didn't come up with that. There was so much infighting in this defense team. Alan Dershowitz said, We weren't the dream team. We are the nightmare team. And that actually was coined by the dean of the Santa Clara law school, who is now finally getting his due 20 years later, Brooke.

BALDWIN: "DRAMA OF THE CENTURY" tonight at 9:00 o'clock Eastern. So much more where that came from.

PHILLIPS: Inside the drama.

BALDWIN: Kyra Phillips, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Now to Jake Tapper -- "THE LEAD" starts right now.