Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Shocking Update on Viral Video of Toddler Playing with Gun; Married Mormon Men Admit Attraction to Guys; Hiding a Pregnancy From the Father
Aired January 13, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDETAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, this video has gone viral.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BARNES, 19-YEAR-OLD LIVE-IN PARTNER OF TONI WILSON: Say bang. Shoot.
UNIDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Bang, bang.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): And now we have even more shocking update to this story.
Plus, a new T.V. show generating outrage. Married mormon men admit their attraction to guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am attracted to my wife for sure and I am definitely attracted to men, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Critics want "My Husband`s Not Gay" canceled immediately. Lisa Vanderpump is my celebrity co-host tonight. And, let us
get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. I am delighted to welcome my special guest host, and welcome Lisa Vanderpump. She is from "Real Housewives" in
Beverly Hills, of course, on Bravo. Welcome Lisa. Thank you for joining us tonight. Samantha Schacher has graciously handed over the throne this
evening. Sam?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: The throne, I love that you used that word. I will take it Dr. Drew. And I have to say, though, I would not
surrender my seat so easily but because it is Lisa Vanderpump, I mean, come on, I love her.
LISA VANDERPUMP, VANDERPUMP RULES STAR: I like that. Thank you. I have ascended to your throne. And, thank you for pinkafying everything for me,
Dr. Drew.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. Indeed. And, by the way, congratulations to HLN. Today, obviously, for those of you that may be watching all day, a launch
of new shows, new look. Really wonderful look to the network now. And, we have pinkafied for Lisa Vanderpump and we will remain that way.
VANDERPUMP: Good! I like that.
PINSKY: Now, I have some important updates on the shocking story from last night. The young mother and the even younger boyfriend, who we saw in the
video allegedly coaching the mom`s 1-year-old baby to play with a gun. We are calling this what the "F," "WTF." Watch and listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BARNES, 19-YEAR-OLD LIVE-IN PARTNER OF THE MOTHER OF THE 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Pow. Pow, pow, pow.
UNDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Pow, pow.
BARNES: Say pow.
UNDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Pow.
BARNES: Say pow, pow. Bang. Say bang. Shoot.
UNDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Bang, bang.
BARNES: Shoot. Bang. Bang. Shoot that thing, fat baby. Pow. Pow, pow, pow.
UNDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Pow, pow.
BARNES: Say pow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining our panel to discuss this, Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com, Karamo Brown, social worker and Sam other updates on this
story?
SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew. So, first of all, that is a 12-month-old, a 1- year-old baby holding that 40 caliber handgun. So, the mother, she is 22. She is charged with child neglect and criminal recklessness.
The boyfriend, the one whispering pow, pow, he is 19. He is facing robbery and handgun charges. Now, here is what is new. Police say the baby`s mom
is also the mom to those infant twins that we talked about last night.
Mom was in court yesterday and a cash bond was set for $1,000. If she bonds out, she has to stay away from guns and her three kids unless the
Department of Child Services says, otherwise.
PINSKY: Lisa, you have been in this country for ten years. Can you imagine -- I just cannot imagine your reaction, seeing a 1-year-old baby
with a gun in his mouth.
VANDERPUMP: Actually, it brought me to tears, I have to say. When I saw this, I had goose bumps and it brought tears to my eyes to see this poor
little innocent soul brought into the world by two irresponsible people that obviously should not be parents at this age. Is there some kind of
counseling, I do not know. But, it absolutely brought me to my knees to see this poor child.
PINSKY: Now, we received an exclusive statement. Now, this is exclusively for us. It is the statement from the public defender of the mom. He says
or she says -- that attorney says, "Toni cares deeply for her daughter and would never put her in this sort of peril had she known this to be an
actual firearm. Ms. Wilson`s role in these events will be determined in a courtroom." But, Lisa, let us say, it is a toy gun, who cares?
VANDERPUMP: I do not believe that for a second because the boyfriend or the father of the children had a history of gun violence. So, I am not
buying that at all. That is a lousy defense.
PINSKY: And as a British citizen, does not this seem just bizarre to you?
VANDERPUMP: As any citizen that seems bizarre. As a parent just to see that poor child, it was absolutely devastating for me and the children are
where they should be right now, in protective services. And, I hope because I am sure they have got to use every endeavor to put the children
back with the parents but there seems to be some serious counseling that needs to be done --
PINSKY: Yes or at least the parenting. Karamo -- I will go to Karamo in a second. I am going to stay on the legal side of this first. Anahita, is
there any defense for this mom, seriously? Come on now.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes, there is a defense. Let me say, Dr. Drew, obviously, this is beyond stupid. It was dangerous.
And, these two people should be thanking God that that little girl did not get injured or killed because they would then be charged with murder.
But, it is going to be a tough defense. That videotape does not look good for them. But, they are going to say, "Look, the gun was never really
loaded" to begin with. "No one was really in any danger and ultimately no one got hurt."
These are two young parents. They are almost teenagers. They do not belong in jail. What they need is parenting classes. They need therapy.
They need counseling --
PINSKY: Well, hold on. Counselor, let us leave that to the social worker. What do you say they need? Is it too far gone? Is this a
meltdown.? Is there any help for these kids?
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: For these two parents, I do believe that there is help. There is always reform for people. I will say that. I do
not believe what Anahita said, that there is no defense here. There is a big defense here. These people should actually go to Jail for quite some
time here.
But, there is a bigger issue here that I would like to bring up. There is a psychological issue here. These two people who are kids, who never
learned to value their own lives are actually teaching their child now to not value their life.
Because to have a child put a gun in their mouth and you just say, "Pow, pow," you are letting them know that it is OK to shoot yourself, suicide.
We see this all the time.
PINSKY: Or other people, Karamo --
BROWN: Yes, or other people.
PINSKY: The child -- he is literally encouraging the child to shoot the gun into the environment.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: This is cool, kid, pow, pow.
BROWN: It is horrible.
VANDERPUMP: Yes. Just to familiarize yourself for the gun, a year old? I mean -- No, absolutely crazy.
SEDAGHATFAR: Can I just -- Dr. Drew, just to correct Karamo. I said there was a defense in this case, not that they are going to be locked up right
away. And, I was presenting the defense argument and one of those arguments is that there is room for rehabilitation. This guy was 19. The
girl was 21. They did not know any better. Those are the arguments they are going to present.
PINSKY: What is their motivation, Anahita, other than you holding a long- term jail sentence over their head?
VANDERPUMP: Everybody knows better. Sorry, Dr. Drew. Everybody knows better.
PINSKY: Now, let us talk about who these people are first of all. Now, the mom is Toni Wilson. She is 22 years of age. Michael Barnes is the
boyfriend. He is 19. The 1-year-old little girl with the gun belongs to the mom Toni, not to the boy.
But the twins belong to the mom and the boy. Now, Karamo, please say that if mom bonds out, she is not allowed to see the kids unless the Department
of Children Services, by the way, who let this family down in the first place, once they say, it is OK, mom can have contact with the kids. My
question to you as a social worker, what would those conditions be? How would she meet those criteria?
BROWN: Well, normally, the state would make sure that the visits were supervised.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: That is going to be the main thing. And, that is very important. But, I do not actually believe that this mother should be getting
supervised visits. It is not up to me, of course, but this is not right.
These children should actually be placed in foster care for at least a year. And, that is not something unusually advocate for. But, the problem
is that, that these children have learned this from whatever parents they were grown from.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: And, so, if you take this child --
PINSKY: Or no parent.
BROWN: Or not groomed from.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: Exactly. If you take this child and put them in the grandparents` home or an aunt`s home, there is a possibility that this psychological
damage is going on with everyone in the family. And, everyone needs help before you damage another generation.
PINSKY: And supervision -- supervision. Sam, do you want to comment?
SCHACHER: I think that is a big tell, Dr. Drew, as what Karamo just brought up said. The fact that Child Protective Services did not place the
children in respective on the father`s home or the grandparents home. There seems to be no outside network in this family, which really gives you
some information on perhaps what their history is.
PINSKY: And, now, Lisa, you have personal experience with the foster care system. You want to share that with us and maybe put that in the context
to this story, what do you think should happen to these kids?
VANDERPUMP: Well, I think, I absolutely agree. For now, they she should be in a secure place, because obviously in the confines of that family, it
is a very dangerous environment.
I think, it is lucky, that nothing went so dreadfully wrong. But, yes, my son has been adopted from foster care and it is not an ideal place to be.
But, clearly, the family`s situation was not either.
PINSKY: And, so, I guess what I am asking, you have faith in foster parents. Faith in the system and more faith in the foster system than you
do than these kids, these parents.
VANDERPUMP: Well, ideally, we always want to see the children back with their families, but in the situation, they were actually putting their own
children at risk. And, so, now, it is the responsibility of the children to be put into security. Absolutely.
PINSKY: I just challenge our viewers out there, is there anyone who is not just shuddering when they see this video? Anyone not disgusted when they
see it? Or is there anyone out there who feels this father is doing something the least bit defensible, forget from a legal standpoint just
from a moral or ethical standpoint? It is really an indictment of the parenting that is going on in our country.
Next up, is the baby`s mother as bad of a parent as she appears to be? We have a friend that joins us. We are going to see if we can figure out
exactly how bad a parent this young lady is.
And later, bartender, Jax, from Vanderpump Rules is here, and I will ask him about a story about a woman who is keeping her pregnancy a secret from
the biological father. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARNES: Shoot. Bang. Bang. Shoot that thing, fat baby. Pow. Pow, pow, pow.
UNDENTIFIED 1-YEAR-OLD TODDLER: Pow, pow.
BARNES: Say pow.
(ENDV IDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: That is a 40 caliber handgun in that video. The mother, 22 years old, her name is Toni Wilson. And, then her 19-year-old boyfriend, Michael
Barnes, they are charged with child neglect for letting the baby play with the gun. The boyfriend, who was wanted for armed robbery, he tried to sell
a gun to an undercover officer. So, he got busted.
PINSKY: There were other kids in the house, too.
SCHACHER: They do have twins.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL HOST OF TOMBOY`S PODCAST ON BLOGTALK RADIO: Obviously, the girl was not making decisions that were good for her.
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Does she not have HLN? Does she not watch "Dr. Drew On Call"? How do we inform the idiotic masses?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with my special co-host, Lisa Vanderpump. But, Lisa, a couple of things. The attorney, this woman`s attorney, the 22-year-old
mother, term loosely held here, is saying that the mother did not know this was a real handgun.
There are handguns in the house, as you said earlier, this 19-year-old boyfriend, who is the father of the twins, infant twins, has previous gun
violence. She knew there were guns at home and around her little twins.
VANDERPUMP: Exactly. He has a history of it. This is a lousy defense. I am not buying it. Everybody knows from a young age this is fundamentally
wrong and absolutely the children should be protected and there should be some serious counseling for the children to be placed back with the
parents.
PINSKY: Let us bring in the behavior bureau in to discuss this. I got Sam, of course, here still, Sam Schacher. Dr. Judy Ho, Clinical
Psychologist, Professor at Pepperdine University. Leeann Tweeden, host of LA Today on AM 570 Radio.
All right, Judy, it is a meltdown. Where would we begin in understanding this situation? I mean to me it is an indictment of parenting in this
country. It is an indictment of gun violence and indictment of so many things -- of the intergenerational transmission of trauma. No, what do we
do?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. How do we solve this problem? Like you said, this is a very recurring theme that we have talked about on
your show, Dr. Drew. So, what do we do from here?
Aside from the parenting training that everybody, obviously, needs these days, there is some kind of social support that people should be telling
this person. You know what, maybe you should not be spending time with people who might be bad influences on your infant. Unfortunately, this
woman is very misguided and I see some dependent issues here in this relationship.
PINSKY: Judy. Judy, OK. Well, that is really interesting that you bring that up. She posted something in June of 2013, this mom Toni, at the time
presumably pregnant with the baby girl in the video posted this to Facebook.
Quote, "I got used to the disrespect by the man I loved but realized when I stopped seeing you and stop stopped talking to you that I did not want that
anymore, I want to be treated like your wife not your bitch. Finally, realized I am better than that and my daughter deserves a better life than
what you was talking about giving us." Judy, that is what you are talking about. It is sort of a love addicted, codependency, accepting abusive
males as appropriate people to reproduce with.
HO: Absolutely. And this is -- Great! Because now that she has removed herself from the situation, she can see a little clearer --
PINSKY: No, Judy. No. No. That is the other guy. Then she gets in now with the guy with the gun who she has twins with.
HO: Oh, no.
PINSKY: Yes. That is the first guy.
HO: Now she is getting -- oh, my goodness. All right, she has not learned anything.
PINSKY: Now, Lisa, you get it, right? -- yes. What would you tell that woman? Will you grab her and shake her?
VANDERPUMP: There has to be other man in America. Please, for goodness sake.
SCHACHER: Yes.
VANDERPUMP: Sam, what are your thoughts. Go ahead.
SCHACHER: I mean she is supplementing one a-hole for one jackass.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, HOST OF LA TODAY, AM570: Thank you.
SCHACHER: I cannot believe this. And, it is so frustrating, Dr. Drew. We have talked about a gazillion times on the show, especially when you know
that there is a lot of couples out there who are trying to get pregnant, and they cannot get pregnant. And, then these two wazoos get pregnant left
and right, why cannot we somehow while you are in the hospital implement some sort of education, some counseling, just to make sure that these
parents will be good parents.
PINSKY: Leeann, I know you got a ton to say, but when Sam suggest something reasonable like that, I just get deflated because I think where
are we going to get the money and the resources to do all of this?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: There are so many things we got to take care of. But, go ahead, Leeann.
TWEEDEN: That is true, Dr. Drew. We always say it is parenting and I would say that is number one, number one, number one. Now, we are dealing
with these two kids, that have already -- the girl has procreated and had three children already that are going into this cycle.
The 1-year-old that he was helping to learn how to shoot a gun or make the noises is not even his, but it is in his household, OK? So, we have three
young children that are already exposed in this --
PINSKY: Yes. The 1-year-old is going to shoot his twins.
TWEEDEN: Well, right.
PINSKY: That is where he say, pow, pow to.
TWEEDEN: Or them, Dr. Drew. And, we got to remember, she is picking thugs. OK? She has admitted before that she does not like the baby`s
daddy then and then she picks a guy who is out there trying to sell an illegal gun to an undercover cop across from the school, then he runs when
they tried to tackle him. He runs home. That is how they grabbed the cell phone and even found this video, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
TWEEDEN: That is how crazy this all is.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: And, what scares me, Dr. Drew is that there is no responsibility from this women. She said she that she thought the gun was not a real gun.
PINSKY: Well, that is the attorney.
TWEEDEN: That is a liar.
PINSKY: Let us get Anahita back in here.
TWEEDEN: Liar.
PINSKY: Right. Let us take issue of our defense attorney, friends. But, I want to bring someone in right now, who is joining us exclusively. Her
name is Tiffany Wilson. She is a good friend of Toni, the mom. They are not related. Toni`s mom is also Wilson. Now, Tiffany, your reaction to
your friend`s arrest does this surprise you or do we have her wrong? Do we need to set the record straight here in some way?
TIFFANY WILSON, TONI WILSON`S FRIEND: Well, Mr. Drew, I am not for sure because when he called me about it, I did not know about it until I get on
Stratford. I have been around Toni for a little bit, like a year. But, she has never bait me to do anything like that, like I told him, she has
been around the wrong men. Now, like I said, I do not think it was her doing it. Maybe it was the dude is doing.
PINSKY: So, did you ever try to straighten her out, try to get her sort of not to hang out with these guys that think gun violence and gunplay with
babies is no big deal?
WILSON: I mean Toni, she is young. I am 26 years old. I think Toni is what? 22?
PINSKY: 22. Yes.
WILSON: he is 22. And, like I said, you cannot tell a teenager what to do these days because they are going to do what they want to do, you know?
But, like I say, I do not think Toni is a bad mother because I have been around her and her kids. And, I just recently -- She worked at Walmart at
Evansville, Indiana, and she had her two girls with her and they were happy. Everything was fine and dude was with her but maybe, I mean I would
never think that. Like I said, maybe I feel it was the man`s part of making --
PINSKY: Oh, I agree with you. I agree with you Tiffany. But, after all, she is the one who thought it was a good idea to bring this dude around and
to have twins with him. Lisa, I do not know about you, but I could not have raised lizards at 22 years of age, let alone a twins. No, I am not
kidding. I mean the thought would have just overwhelmed me even just being around them, let alone having the responsibility for them.
VANDERPUMP: No. I understand that in some way what you are saying but many people do. But also let us not forget the fact that so many times
this situation goes wrong. Let us not forget all the victims of gun crimes, all these children. And, I just thank God in this situation,
everything turned out, you know, OK. The fact the child is safe and in protective custody.
PINSKY: And, Sam, do you to comment too?
SCHACHER: Is she still on the phone? Do we still have Tiffany on the phone, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Tiffany is still there, yes.
SCHACHER: Yes. Tiffany, do you know anything about Toni`s family history? Does she talk to her parents? Is the father of the baby involved?
PINSKY: Does she have a social support?
SCHACHER: Yes.
WILSON: Not that I know of. As far as that I know she has a sister down here. And, like I say, I do not really know her. I know her for a whole
year because she used to date my little brother but other than that, they were always at my house or my brother`s house and that is where she had her
little one. And, damn when she got pregnant, they broke up. And, as far as that I do not know her mother. I never met her mother, but she has a
sister down here.
PINSKY: All right. Thank you so much, Tiffany. I appreciate you joining us. And, I hate -- when we are dealing with the intergenerational
transmission of trauma in bad parenting, it is transmitted through generations. We have to stop it. And, I know we want to bring in social
services, but we really cannot have a nany stake.
We all have to take care of our own. We have to form this cohesive family units, form lives, commit ourselves to the rearing of children and keeping
a violent and violence in handguns away from children, teaching them to be civil members of productive members of society. And people who misbehave
like this need to be dealt with accordingly.
Next up, a new T.V. show called "My Husband`s Not Gay" features married men, who are sexually attracted to other man. It is a controversial
program. The question is, is it dangerous?
And, later, we will talk about a one-night stand that resulted in a pregnancy. Everyone except the biological father knows about it. We will
discuss it with Lisa`s bartender, Jax Taylor. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): We do love each other very much. We are best friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I would not change anything about him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): There is no marriage that is perfect. Ours is not. But with our faith in God, we believe we can overcome anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): I would like to say I chosen an alternative to an alternative lifestyle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): I am attracted to my wife for sure and I am definitely attracted to men, too.
He is a good looking guy, for sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (5): Well, the whole act is against the teachings of the gospel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (6): I want to marry a woman, but I do not know how to work out these feelings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (7): I do not know how to tell you this but I am attracted to men.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with my celebrity co-host, Lisa Vanderpump. Samantha Schacher has graciously handed it over her throne to her this evening.
Sam, thank you. And, Anahita and Karamo are back. That footage was from TLC`s controversial new show, "My Husband`s Not Gay." And, it is our most
tweeted story tonight. Sam, help us understand the premise of the show, beyond what obviously in the title.
SCHACHER: OK. So, the shows follows three couples Dr. Drew. Three married couples and one single guy who is looking for a wife. Now, they
are all Mormon. The guys admit that they are attracted to other men. Here is the thing, they do not label themselves as gay, instead the use of term
called SSA.
Now, SSA stands for same sex attraction. And, they believe that there is a huge difference between being SSA and being gay. And that big difference
is, is that they do not act on their impulses therefore they are not gay. Are you following me?
PINSKY: I am following.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: I am just wondering what kind of life, what kind of marriage --
SCHACHER: Right. And, because of that, it is good that you brought that up because this show is generating a lot of controversy. LGBT advocates.
They are describing it as irresponsible and even dangerous.
PINSKY: Well, and I imagine, Sam, that is because they are suggesting that it is giving parents or people who are not accepting of their gay peers,
partners, friends, love ones that they could change their behavior. Look what these guys are doing.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
VANDERPUMP: Yes.
PINSKY: That is the idea. Lisa, you say yes. And, that could be -- you know, we know that in gay population, the suicide rate, is very high and
some of it has to do with how they are treated by the people they love.
VANDERPUMP: And, especially high with gay Mormons and to believe that reparative therapy would ever work is just ridiculous to me. I am a huge
advocate will speak, you know, on behalf of the gay community. So, yeah --
PINSKY: So you think it should be stopped? Do you think the show should be off the air? Do you think it is something that just --
VANDERPUMP: Well, I have not seen the whole show. So, it is difficult to say that it is irresponsible. And, I do think that any information, you
know? -- because then you can be objective. But, I think with the Mormon church, for these men, you know, if it looks like a duck, walks like a
duck, it is clearly a duck.
I mean for them to be able to reconcile their sexual identity with the Mormon church is an impossible situation. I mean that label in sexuality
within the Mormon church is labeled as the same category as murdering, you know, as abuse. So, yes, they obviously, have to put their loyalty to the
church, put their loyalty to their sexual identity, which is hard to understand.
PINSKY: Now, Jeff and Tanya are one of these couples featured in TLC`s "My Husband`s Not Gay." Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BENNION, CO-STARS OF "MY HUSBAND`S NOT GAY" SHOW: We have been married about nine years. We have one delightful son. And, I guess one of
the most unique things about our relationship is I experience SSA or Same- Sex Attraction.
TANYA BENNION, CO-STARS OF "MY HUSBAND`S NOT GAY"SHOW: Not gay, SSA. So, it is somebody attracted to the same sex but wants to be in a heterosexual
relationship. When Jeff told me about his Same-Sex Attraction, it was definitely the worst time in our relationship.
We got home to his place and I thought, "He is finally going to say I love you." And, instead he said, "I think you need to know that I am attracted
to men," and I was crushed. I thought he was telling me I am done with this relationship, but I already knew I loved him. I knew I wanted to
spend the rest of my life with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Confusing, Karamo. LGBT advocates say the show is dangerous. Do you think this show is dangerous?
BROWN: I definitely agree. As a gay man, this show is dangerous. And, I feel so sad watching that woman right there. I feel so sad for her that
she has this delusional preoccupation with SSA as if there is something different between sexual orientation and sexual -- Oh, my Gosh, I am just -
-
PINSKY: So, Karamo, in other words, you feel bad for this woman because she is losing an important quality of this of a marriage --
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: -- over terminology. Oh, it is OK, it is not gay it is SSA.
BROWN: Exactly. Completely. I hope that TLC does a spin-off and call it, "All My Trauma." And, show the back story of these three women of why they
would ever accept this type of lifestyle.
VANDERPUMP: I do not agree necessarily.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Lisa. Why?
VANDERPUMP: I do not agree because I think excerpt she says, "We have a successful physical relationship." And, I know a lot of my gay friends
would not be physically capable of having a sexual relationship with women.
PINSKY: Well, Karamo --
VANDERPUMP: -- so, I would say, in this case maybe this man is obviously bisexual.
PINSKY: Well, Karamo, you were with women before you really came to turn out the things, were you not? Do you mind talking about that?
BROWN: Yes. I will talk about it.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: I was with women beforehand and I did not identify as bisexual, I identified now as a gay man. But, the thing is, is that I would never
allow a woman to get into a relationship with me and to have a committed relationship knowing the fact that I at some point might go back with a
man. That is very hard.
VANDERPUMP: That, I will not ask you out later, then.
PINSKY: She likes you, though, Karamo, nonetheless.
(LAUGHING)
BROWN: I like you too, Lisa.
PINSKY: A petition urging TLC to cancel the show has over 120,000 signatures. You can find that at change.org. Anahita, are they incurring
any liability here? Do you think? I do not know.
SEDAGHATFAR: There is no liability and I do not think the show should be taken off the air, Dr. Drew. And, those that are calling for it to be
taken off the air are actually supporting censorship.
PINSKY: Hold on. One sitting next to you. Karamo, how dare you call for this to be taken off the air?
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. Well, yes, I think especially the LGBT community should be offended at the calls to take this off the air. And, here is
why. Are not we sitting here, Dr. Drew, on your show a couple of week up in arms at the fact that Sony was not going to show that movie, "The
Interview" because some people were offended by that movie?
Well, it is the same exact thing here. If the LGBT community finds the subject matter disturbing, if they think it is wrong, it is dangerous, well
use this time to engage in outreach, educate people. Say why you think it is wrong.
PINSKY: And reach on Anahita lawyer. What is your --
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly. Anahitalive.com.
PINSKY: Anahitalive.com and let her know what you feel about this.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, this is America. You do not call for censoring a show just because you do not agree with the subject matter.
PINSKY: Yes, but I am going to speak on behalf of Karamo. The problem is and this is really a problem is that if indeed this supports -- there is
lives that lie in the balance. If indeed for instance, let us say suicide rates go up amongst gay teens as a result of them being further unsupported
by their families and loved ones, do not you think that is a problem, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. I mean --
PINSKY: You do not?
SEDAGHATFAR: I certainly -- No. I am sorry. I certainly think that is a problem but do I think the solution to that problem is so censor what shows
are on television, to censor what types of literature are out there? That is what is great about this country is that we have the right to express
different opinions.
PINSKY: All right, Karamo? Here is a different opinion, Karamo.
SEDAGHATFAR: The LGBT community can counter these shows by engaging in their outreach efforts.
BROWN: I have to disagree with you a thousand, trillion percent. But, first of all, there is a big difference here. With LGBT people, there are
not as many images on television for us to look up to and especially our children. That is why the suicide rates are so high.
So for there to be something that is telling, especially LGBT people based community that there is something wrong with you and that this is a choice,
that is wrong. And, that is going to cause people to do a lot of damaging and hurtful things.
Secondly, when Paula Deen was on the air, we all agree that she should be off of air because when she said something that was racially insensitive,
we all knew that was wrong. But, for some reason, when it is an LGBT issue, it is, "Well, let us keep it on air. It is OK."
SEDAGHATFAR: It is a universal issue.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold you guys. Lisa, I am going to give you the last word.
VANDERPUMP: Well, I would like to see the pain and struggle and the reality of the situation of what these people have been through and then it
opens conversations. As I say, I do not believe in any kind of reparative therapy that will actually deny intrinsically who you are born and what you
are.
PINSKY: All right. Next up, one of the show`s defenders. He is married, Mormon and attracted to men, SSA. He will join us and talk to us. And,
later, Jax Taylor from "Vanderpump Rules," he is here. He got something to say about a woman who is hiding her pregnancy from the father of the child.
We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Today we are taking time out shopping before his big date.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): You see that guy over there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): He is a good-looking guy for sure. He is ok. I kind of like guys that are a little more athletic, fit, like myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): Let us just say that I have a huge crush on Tom Brady.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): Is he your type?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Yes. I think he is a great-looking guy but I like the swimmer`s build.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): What is a swimmer`s build?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Tone, long limbed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): Neither one of those two fit my imperative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): So what kind of guy are you into?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): Usually taller, like Brian Reynolds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Yes, I am with you there. Who is not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with celebrity co-host for the evening, Lisa Vanderpump, and our behavior bureau, Sam, Judy, and Leeann. That footage was from
TLC`s new show, "My Husband`s Not Gay." It is a controversial series that follows three men, who are married, Mormon men. They are married to women,
but admit they are SSA, Same-Sex Attraction, attracted to men. Now, Lisa, suppose this was a bunch of straight men they are following around, who are
blatant to checking out a bunch of women. It feels kind of inappropriate, no?
VANDERPUMP: Yes, it does. I understand. But, I think there are many men living a life similar to these men without actually admitting that they
have homosexual feelings. So, you know, lots of people live that double life, really, do not they? And, you know, life goes on. I mean --
PINSKY: I guess you are right. I guess you could say the men that hide it or really do not admit it themselves, and do not suck an heterosexual
female into a marriage, that woman is not even making a choice.
VANDERPUMP: Exactly.
PINSKY: These women know what they are getting into.
VANDERPUMP: Exactly. Exactly. That is my point.
PINSKY: Sam, what are we hearing at social media? We brought up the women here. I know there is a lot of sort of blaming part on the women, you
know?
SCHACHER: Well, it is interesting, yes. It looks like -- most of the actions are coming from our female viewers. You are right about that.
And, they are directing their feedback towards the wives. So, for example, Nicole tweeted, quote, "The thing some women will do for a roof over their
heads and insurance. Girl you do not have to do this."
A woman named Jennifer shared a personal story on Facebook. She wrote, quote, "My ex was in the closet while we were married and still is. Any
woman deserves better than to serve as someone`s beard. Any man deserves a gay life."
PINSKY: And, indeed, you know, to me --
SCHACHER: Any gay man, rather.
PINSKY: Yes. I get that, Sam. And, Judy, to me that is what makes this sort of sad. Your people are -- you feel like they deserve more and they
are not willing to step up and take it.
HO: That is right. And, I think the TLC special did do some disservice to this entire situation on both sides. What are the women really feeling
that their men are not attracted to them? That was not even dealt with.
The men feel like they are somehow living this life, admitting they have SSA, but they have these religious parameters that they have to follow.
So, where does that leave them in terms of their daily satisfaction and struggles.
And, so this is part of the problem is that I think the portrayal through this show while bringing more awareness to this and the fact that yes, like
Lisa said, many people are living this lifestyle. But, what does that really mean? Are they setting a good example for their children?
PINSKY: Well that is the question.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: I will show you some more from the TLC`s program, "My Husband`s Not Gay." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Today, myself and some SSA friends, we are going to go play basketball and we are going to bring my friend Tom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): When I am out with the guys, yeah, we will look at other guys, for sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): The dangerous scale goes from 0 to 4. 1 on the dangerous scale as you notice, you look. A 2 means you looked again.
A 3, you would be tempted to look around and look again and again. 4 pretty much means you are requiring restraints.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (4): Really, I would go higher than that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): That is in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (5): Hey, your wives are here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): How is it going?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Leeann, requiring restraint? Is that how you walk through your life, having to restrain yourself from your sexuality?
TWEEDEN: Well, you know what is really sad, Dr. Drew, that obviously they are all putting themselves up for this. The only person who is not -- the
only people not putting themselves up for it, are their children. This is a reality show. I am sure they are being paid to be on camera. Touchy
subject as it is.
It reminds me, Dr. Drew of people that are of the older generation. There were men out there that are gay and like that we read the one tweet, they
feel like they have to be in the parameter of, "I am a guy. I should get married and I should have children to keep on my family name." And, that
is what they did.
And, then later on they have grown children, they get divorced. They are like, "Well, you know what? I have been gay my whole life" and then they
have these gay relationships which is totally fine.
But, I think the people in these series, it is just a little disappointing that they would put themselves out there to be in that middle ground and
use religion as part of one crutch and then, you know, kind of put the wives in a weird position.
It is like, well, I do not know if they are really thinking about you while they are trying to conceive children. It is a weird thing that their
children are going to see, because you know what?
PINSKY: It is on T.V.
TWEEDEN: It is on television. It will be there forever, ever, ever.
PINSKY: Well, let me bring in someone who knows a little more about this than the rest of us. His name is Ty Mansfield. He is on the phone. He is
married. He is Mormon. He is a gentleman with three children, and he is SSA. He is attracted to men. So, Ty, what do you say to critics who take
aim at this show and who insist you are gay, perhaps living a lie?
TY MANSFIELD, MARRIED MAN WHO IS ATTRACTED TO MEN: Well, let me just add that I am also marriage and family therapist. So, I see this from a lot of
different dimensions. There is a question of authenticity. And, what does that mean to be authentic and to live in authentic life?
And, I do think that there are tragic stories because someone goes in. I mean there are some statements that have been made that I think is a little
offensive like you know, "If you get married to a woman, she is simply your beard." I think that is offensive. That is not really why I got married.
I got married because that is why -- I would not have gotten married if I did not genuinely love and want to be with my wife.
PINSKY: Hang on a second, Ty. Sam, have a question for you. Sam?
SCHACHER: Ty --
MANSFIELD: Ye .
SCHACHER: OK. So, you have children. If one of your children ends up to be gay later on in life when they are old enough to realize that they are
gay, what are you going to do? Are you going to tell them to be an SSA or are you going to accept them for who they are?
MANSFIELD: Well, that is a complex question. Because, say like bisexuality has so many different dimensions to it. If they say that they
are gay and they want to be in a gay relationship, I would say, I am going to love you regardless of what decision you choose. Like you are mine, you
are part of my family, this is not going to change a thing.
But, this whole kind of like gay streak vibe that seems to pervade the so saturate the pop cultural discussion around this issue is really
problematic. I do not think that anyone should just do it for social pressure, for religious pressure or even kind of a pressure in themselves
into some ideals.
It has to be something from a genuinely want. It has to be something that they are -- like any marriage. I mean, again, I am a therapist and I work
with a lot of heterosexual couples and I have a way better marriage than most of them.
VANDERPUMP: Are you Mormon, ty?
MANSFIELD: I am a Mormon, yes.
VANDERPUMP: So, is that why you chose to get married, because you wanted to adhere to the confines of your religion?
MANSFIELD: No. I do not necessarily. Well, yes and no. No in that I do not believe in religious behavioral conformity just for the sake of it.
VANDERPUMP: But the Mormons do. That is the whole point.
PINSKY: Guys, I am out of time. Guys, we have got to leave it right there. Ty, maybe we can get you online with us and we can keep answering
these questions. Maybe in the after show, we will look at that as a strategy to keep this conversation going. As you say, it is messy. It is
complicated. There is a lot to talk about. We are going to switch topics.
Next up, we have a pregnant woman who blogs to the world about her baby and her pregnancy, everyone except the father knows about it. Lisa`s
bartender, Jax Taylor, joins us after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I was 12 weeks pregnant and the father was someone I had met during my summer abroad. He did not know I was pregnant
and I had no plans to tell him. I only know Nick`s first name and occupation. He could have a trust fund or a criminal record. The unknowns
are too great. Instinctively, I knew I was going to keep the baby and keep Nick in the dark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back to my special co-host for the evening, Lisa Vanderpump. Sam is with us. Jax Taylor from Vanderpump`s Rules. He is the bartender at
Lisa`s restaurant served, and Anahita is back with us. It is time for our click fix. Lots of action on social media regarding this story.
Should a woman who gets pregnant during a one-night stand tell the father about the pregnancy and the baby? We heard about this in a blog on Yahoo!.
Sam, give us more details.
SCHACHER: OK. So, it was written by a woman who is calling herself J.L. Scott, Dr. Drew. And, she talks about how she went to visit Dublin,
Ireland, over the summer. She met this guy in the bar. They have a one- night stand. She was not using her birth control. So, they had unprotected sex.
Even though she took the morning after pill the next day, well, a few weeks later, oops surprise, she is pregnant. She also goes on to talk about the
fact that she made a decision that she will not tell the father that she is pregnant nor tell the father about the baby when the baby is born.
PINSKY: OK. Lisa, my question to you, first op, is she morally obligated to tell the man about this pregnancy?
VANDERPUMP: I think so, yes. I think she is guilty by omission. I think she should use the best endeavors to find the father. He is 50 percent of
that child. Imagine the shock, 18 years later when the child comes -- I know myself, how I would feel. I would feel devastated if suddenly, you
know, a child turned up and I had a fair warning. I think absolutely you should be enlightened.
PINSKY: Jax, do you agree with your boss?
JAX TAYLOR, CAST OF VANDERPUMP RULES: Yes, I do, on this subject. Whether or not the child is going to be part of this man`s life, he should know. I
mean this is -- it could go either way but I really think the father should know.
VANDERPUMP: Easy there Jax, because you are going to have tons of women now chasing after him.
PINSKY: Oh, really? Well, better than hundreds of 18-year-olds in 18 years coming after him, I suppose. Anahita, could she be illegal trouble
for not telling him and does this man have any fiduciary responsibility to the child?
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not know that there is a legal obligation here, Dr. Drew, but obviously a moral and ethical obligation. What kind of mother is
this woman going to be? She goes and has a one-night stand with a stranger.
She does not use protection. She then lies to him and says, "I was on birth control" and now she is deciding she does not tell the child that he
is the father of her child? That is totally beyond selfish. And, like what Lisa was saying, I mean even if you do not have an obligation to
father of the child, what about your daughter, you unborn child?
At some point she is going to want answers. She is going to ask questions, who is my dad? Why was not he part of my life. This child is going to be
damaged in one way or another by her mother making this decision.
PINSKY: And, Jax, I see a look on your face, a real seriousness. You are nodding as Anahita is talking. You agree with her.
TAYLOR: Totally. I think it is -- the daughter is going to want to know at some point like where she came from. And, the fact that she was unaware
of any of this, just because the mother was so selfish not to say anything. Absolutely.
PINSKY: And, Lisa, what if she lived in the vicinity -- even this father is overseas somewhere, does it even make it more immediate, more important
that she find this guy?
VANDERPUMP: I understand that. This is obviously not an ideal situation, but I think that absolutely, wherever the father is, she has -- when she
heads into that situation -- I know everybody makes mistakes. Of course they do. But she is obliged to tell him. She is obligated to her
daughter, to her son because it is -- it is just part of life, you know, that is -- I am sorry. I have got such strong feelings.
PINSKY: You feel very strong. I get that.
VANDERPUMP: I really do. I really do. I think it is selfish to do otherwise.
PINSKY: For our viewers, if you like more of HLN, you can take us live with you wherever you go. Get our HLN To Go app. It is available for
Apple products and Android devices. We will be back in just a second with Lisa, Jax and our panel after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Time to continue our Click Fix. I am back with my special co-host Lisa Vanderpump, Sam, Jax, Anahita are with me as well. Tonight, we are
asking should a woman who gets pregnant during a one-night stand, tell the guy about the baby? Jax, Lisa during the break made an interesting point
to me.
She said it is going to be harder to find Nick behind the bar in 25 years than it would be now, number 1. And number 2, I said that a young girl who
loses her biological father feels as though he did not care enough to find her.
TAYLOR: Well, how would he know?
PINSKY: Well, that is the point. But, the fantasy -- Let us put it this way. Young women are injured much more severely by an absent biological
father than a male, frankly.
TAYLOR: It does not matter. That is a whole other subject. But, obviously, should know regardless that this man is in jail or he is a
millionaire, he needs to know.
PINSKY: Samantha, agree?
SCHACHER: Yes. I mean it takes two to tango, Dr. Drew. She is robbing this father of his parental right. It is not up for her to make that
decision.
PINSKY: Yes. Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Exactly. You know what? It could be that this man wants nothing to do with her or the child, but it could be that he would
want to be part of the child`s life and she is taking away that decision for him.
VANDERPUMP: Exactly.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, she is not being a strong independent woman like she claims she is being by doing this. I would venture to say she is being the
exact opposite. This is shameful.
PINSKY: Lisa.
VANDERPUMP: Well, she enter into that contract when she went to bed with him and had unprotected sex.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
VANDERPUMP: So, I think, yes, she is obligated right now to her unborn child. You know, absolutely.
PINSKY: And, Sam, you have got some reaction from Facebook?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK, so, Lydia writes, "sometimes it is just easier not to involve the other party." Interesting. Mandy writes, "He should know and
let him decide the role he plays." Exactly.
PINSKY: I do not know. You know, I will tell you what?
SCHACHER: You do not know?
PINSKY: No. No. I just -- there has been so many sad stories we have dealt with tonight. That is why I am feeling sort of stirred by all of
this. And, we all agree on this one, it is an easy one to go.
Yes, she should find this guy, but she has reproductive rights. She does not have any legal obligation to do so. I can understand her. And, I am
less -- here is what I am actually thinking. I am less concerned about this woman than I am about the parents we started the program off with.
SCHACHER: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: I am equally concerned. Why is she posted this online? Here we go again. Even if this is your decision, why are you writing a blog and
posting it online? Is this somebody else now that wants their 15 minutes of fame?
PINSKY: Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: And thinks it is going to be controversial? I mean that is absolutely disgusting in my opinion.
VANDERPUMP: Also, what if something happens to this mother? Then at least the child has a chance of having another parent. Then think about, you
know, hypothetically something happens.
PINSKY: Now, Lisa, that is absolutely right. Our own Danine Manette had a tweet up there a few minutes ago --
SCHACHER: I cannot wait.
PINSKY: Well, it said, if she needed a kidney transplant, this woman would scour the earth to find this dad.
VANDERPUMP: Yes. Exactly.
PINSKY: And, from my standpoint, as a physician, it is very important for people to know their biological history. Thank you, panel. I appreciate
it very much. Jax, thanks for joining us this evening. A special thanks to Lisa Vanderpump from "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills." Of course it
airs Tuesdays.
VANDERPUMP: And Vanderpump Rules.
PINSKY: Well, I am going to get there. Tuesdays -- Real Housewives at Tuesdays at 9:00 on Bravo. Jax Taylor from "Vanderpump Rules." That airs
as Lisa said, Mondays at 9:00 on Bravo, right?
VANDERPUMP: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: OK. Please DVR us then you can watch us any time. And, again, tonight is a rollout of a lot of big premiers. It is a new HLN. This is
the beginning of a big transition for us. We appreciate you all supporting that.
I want you to stick around for the premier of Jack Vale Show. It is next. You know him as a Youtube prankster. The name of the show is "Jack Vale
Offline. You will love it and it starts right now.
END
