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Dr. Drew
Pot Debate; Transgender Teen`s Death Making Headlines
Aired January 14, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW PINSKY, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the pot debate rages on. And we are right in a middle of it. And a transgender teen`s death is making
headlines in Hollywood and on social media and Twitter. Plus, a wife with scissors accused of cutting off her husband`s -- cheating husband`s penis
not once, but twice. Let`s get started.
Good evening. My cohost, of course, is Samantha Schacher, now last night our colleague, Nancy Grace, got into it with none other than rapper 2
Chainz. And tonight, that has become our most tweeted story of the day. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
2 CHAINZ: You don`t know what I`m talking about.
NANCY GRACE, CNN ANCHOR: You went to college on a sports scholarship. Did you not?
2 CHAINZ: Yes. And I`m very intelligent. And smoking pot for me .
GRACE: Can I get back to you in high school when you were - You were on a basketball scholarship, as I recall.
2 CHAINZ: Yes.
GRACE: Were you - were you using pot then?
2 CHAINZ: I was selling pot then.
GRACE: You were an athlete.
2 CHAINZ: Yes. I was selling pot then.
GRACE: And would you want your children to do that?
2 CHAINZ: No. But it was .
GRACE: And why is that?
2 CHAINZ: It was a way of living for me.
GRACE: Why don`t you want your children to do it, man?
2 CHAINZ: Because I did it for them. I sacrificed that so they won`t have to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, Nancy. Let me start off with my headlines. First of all, I pretty much agree with 2 Chainz.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, COHOST: You do? Yes!
PINSKY: I pretty much agree with 2 Chainz.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, so you are team 2 Chainz.
PINSKY: I am team 2 Chainz.
SCHACHER: Good.
PINSKY: I do not care if cannabis and pot is voted up or voted down its legalization. That`s up to the people. People should make the laws they
want. If they want it legalized, it should be legalized. If they want it illegalized, I completely understand that our laws as it pertains to
substances are draconian and bizarre. They are bizarre. I can`t even get a (INAUDIBLE) of cannabis called CBD that might help my patients, because
there are such moralistic cloud around a drug that`s just a chemical that humans relate to, like any other chemical, like nicotine, like alcohol.
We have chosen this one, however, to make a moral argument about and to have very bizarre arguments around. Nancy`s arguments were about as
bizarre as they can get. That is bizarre as they can possibly get. She was moralizing, she was demeaning, she was creating racial innuendo in
order to demean for 2 Chainz who just felt that he should have the right to use a substance that other people have the right to use similar substances.
I have got a lot to say. I`ve got a lot more to say, and let me just say one more thing. Cannabis is addictive, right? For some people. But
because it is, it doesn`t mean I think it should be illegal any more than I think alcohol should be illegal that is - because it`s addictive for some
people.
I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. I have got a lot of experience, 25 years of experience of watching the relationship that
people have with these substances. You should want to mine that experience. It`s valuable. But whether it`s legal or illegal, that`s up
to the people.
Joining us to discuss, first up, Kelvin Washington, radio host, Vanessa Barnett, Hollywood.com, Anne Elise Goetz, attorney. You guys watch more
from Nancy`s show. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NG: Legalizing pot ends up in stories like this. And you with so many people looking up to you advocate legalization of pot. And I don`t get it.
I mean I`ve seen video of you smoking a big fat doobie. I mean I`ve read your lyrics. I know what you say in your songs. But when you hear stories
like the mom and the dad on the front porch, the baby dies in a fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, Vanessa, when people use substances, they make terrible judgments sometimes. That does not make that particular substance any
worse than any other particular substance. And it`s not a pertinent issue when it comes to law.
VANESSA BARNETT: Yeah, I did all of that, but I`m completely dumfounded that you are sitting here saying that you agree with 2 Chainz. Honestly, I
think you are just looking for a little street cred (ph) Dr. Drew. And - look, all respect due to you, but I get on this show and there`s been so
many times where you are like, substances are bad. Substances are bad
PINSKY: I never said substances are bad. I said addiction is a terrible disease. And I like to fight it.
BARNETT: Now you are on .
PINSKY: Vanessa .
BARNETT: Legalizing pot.
PINSKY: Vanessa, Vanessa -- you ever smoke pot? You don`t have to answer that. It`s up to you.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: You have to repeat. I didn`t hear you.
PINSKY: But the point is, if you did, that`s fine with me. It`s a spark up, my dear. Have a good time.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: That`s fine.
BARNETT: The funny thing is --
PINSKY: I have no problem, l hope you enjoyed yourself. But if you had a disease called addiction, and your relationship with a particular chemical,
filling a black chemical, caused you destruction and a horrible life course, I`m interested in helping you. Otherwise, I`m interested in you
having a good time. Kelvin, do you see what I`m talking about? No, Vanessa, Kelvin. Kelvin.
BARNETT: All of a sudden, now this is the argument when so many times before it was like, substances are bad. And I get that some people abuse
substances. And look, I don`t even smoke weed. That`s not my argument here. My argument is look, Dr. Drew is all of a sudden, team 2 Chainz.
And I am blown away.
PINSKY: Kelvin, you get what I`m saying? I`m not saying that substances aren`t going to cause you to do things that could be a problem. They are.
It`s on you then for making the choice to do it.
KELVIN WASHINGTON: Right. I mean, you know, I don`t want to make it like it should be the men against the women on this particular panel. But, you
know I`m Dr. Drew, I`m with you. My issue is, alcohol kills over -- nearly 100,000 people a year. We have tobacco which kills almost 500,000 people a
year. So, I don`t get to your point how we`re going to pick and choose, while you can do this, you can`t do that, you can do that, but you can`t do
that.
PINSKY: Well, listen, and I`m going to say something equally as crazy as big Drew Chainz tonight.
BARNETT: Oh, Drew Chainz.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But -- maybe all substances should be legal. That`s up to the people. I will contend with whatever the people want.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hang on - I`ve got to turn - hang on a second. Anna Elise, Now, listen, they tried it in Holland. It didn`t work so well. So, there`s
evidence that it`s not such a great thing. But that`s up to the people to decide. You understand what I`m saying?
ANNE ELISE GOETZ, ATTORNEY: I hear you, Dr. Drew. This is what I take issue with, though. It is - it`s specifically 2 Chainz as well as what you
almost - and to Vanessa there, so what we`re talking about here, is illegal. If people want to change it, great, that`s fine. What we have
are celebrities, people going on national television saying it`s OK to break the law. And that I have a huge problem with. I don`t care what
state you live in. This is illegal across the country because the federal government says it`s illegal. And it should not be appropriate for
celebrities or anyone else to be out there saying, I think it`s fine. And in a civil disobedience manner going out and smoking pot and acting like
it`s OK.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --
GOETZ: It`s not the way the system works.
PINSKY: I got it.
GOETZ: Just because you don`t like the law, doesn`t mean it`s not enforceable.
SCHACHER: I want to give some context to this whole debate.
PINSKY: Yes, please.
SCHACHER: Because there`s a huge reaction on social media and Anna Elise just pointed out that celebrities do have a lot of influence. And this
wrapper - 2 Chainz and Dr. Drew, if you are going to be Dr. Drew 2 Chainz, you have to say his name properly. It`s 2 Chainz. That`s what you are
supposed to say.
PINSKY: Oh, yeah.
SCHACHER: OK? But here is the thing. 2 million Twitter followers - OK? So, he does have a lot of influence on social. He is a huge rapper. He
also gave a really good debate last night, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yeah, of course.
SCHACHER: People on Twitter think he won the debate. That`s the federal consensus.
PINSKY: Kelvin had that position, too. Right, Kelvin?
WASHINGTON: Yeah, absolutely. My point was, he won the debate because he stuck to the topic at hand, which was should weed be legalized - he gave
his opinions. He mentioned taxpayers.
PINSKY: But guess what? Guess what, Kelvin? That`s the point. Nancy went in this sort of - with this scatter argument.
WASHINGTON: She attacked him personally.
PINSKY: But right. She moralized, she used racial innuendo.
WASHINGTON: He was a great guy, the next he was bad. I didn`t understand.
PINSKY: This is not a moral argument. We should not make it that. It`s a human relationship with a substance.
WASHINGTON: She brought up his grade point average.
PINSKY: Listen, and by the way.
SCHACHER: It was a 4.0.
PINSKY: Here`s another fact.
SCHACHER: He is a well-educated man. I don`t know why it was a surprise.
PINSKY: Hey, the fact is, in addition to being addictive for some people, if you start smoking even moderately at the age of 11, it will change your
brain permanently. That`s a fact.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
PINSKY: Whether it`s legal or illegal, that`s a fact. It`s also a fact, by the way, in Colorado, the black market has remained alive and well in
spite of making it legal. It kind of surprised me. I thought when they made it legal in Colorado, it would be the end of the black market. But
apparently, because it`s expensive and so taxed, there`s a black market.
WASHINGTON: I thought you mean like black - me and Vanessa black market.
PINSKY: No, no .
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I`m not - absolutely - Let me look at some more what Nancy had to say. Put another tape up for me and then we`ll go to the next segment.
But I want to see this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
2 CHAINZ: In the whole community.
GRACE: I`ve got a problem, as successful as you are, as rich as you are, as famous as you are, with this. Smoking California weed with California
whores. Excuse me, true, I left that one out.
2 CHAINZ: True.
GRACE: Smoked California weed with California whores.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: True. "My weed so loud, everybody listen. I`m so high like an attic. Good weed, bad bitch." All right. You know what? I bet if
somebody talked about your girls like this, you would jerk a knot in their neck.
2 CHAINZ: Yeah, but we are talking about recreational use of marijuana. What are we talking about, Nancy?
GRACE: What I`m saying, is, your lyrics. Your lyrics
2 CHAINZ: My lyrics pay the bills. Love is real life.
GRACE: To support people .
2 CHAINZ: You know, I`ll tell you want me to talk about .
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Pot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Guess what, everybody? Suddenly, the cannabis debate drags in the misogynistic quality of certain lyrics. That`s a different argument.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And by the way, that can be debated. That sounds pretty misogynist to me, I don`t think he wants his kids to be treated that way.
I`m suddenly sounding like Kristen Wiig.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: But listen, let`s keep focus on the issues, such as - so, keeping with that, I want to bring in the behavior bureau for this debate. And
later on, this is a crazy story. A woman is accused of having cut off her cheating husband`s penis. Now, I know a lot of ladies have had that
impulse. You are looking at a picture, yeah, Vanessa is giving the high sign on that. Now, what you are looking at there is a picture of the
second time she did it. Back after this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m (INAUDIBLE) with the "Daily Share" at this hour, gaining momentum on Twitter with over 18,000 tweets in the past 24 hours,
NASCAR driver Kurt Busch says it`s true, his ex-girlfriend, Patricia Driscoll, is a trained assassin. Busch says he saw her return from a
covert mission with an evening gown covered in blood. This is all coming out because Busch`s ex-filed a no contact order against him claiming he is
the one who assaulted her inside his motor home at Dover International Speedway. He denies laying a hand on her. And she denies being an
assassin. So, who is Patricia Driscoll? According to her Twitter account, she`s an author, philanthropist, executive producer and president of the
Armed Forces Foundation supporting injured troops and military families.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Rapper 2 Chainz, also known as Tity Boy, also known as Tauheed Epps.
2 CHAINZ: Yeah.
GRACE: Why? Does a man like you who won`t even let his daughters have a coca cola or Pepsi and you are advocating the legalization of marijuana?
It doesn`t fit together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam. This is our click fix, stories you are discussing most online. We are talking about cannabis pot. Should it be
legalized for recreational purposes? Nancy Grace got into it with 2 Chainz. And Sam, in the last block, I said, I will say again, I do not
care whether cannabis is voted up or voted down. Laws are made by the people. They should decide what they want. Our laws as they pertain to
substances generally are bizarre. We arbitrarily decide some are good and some are bad. Cannabis is bad, alcohol is good. They are all substances.
And all I`m interested in is the relationship humans have with those substances and how it pertains to their health.
SCHACHER: But Dr. Drew, you are an addictionologist.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: You see this firsthand. So, let me ask you.
PINSKY: I`m against audition.
SCHACHER: In compare - OK, in comparison, OK, weed to alcohol, to heroine, to cocaine, where does weed fall?
PINSKY: In terms of what? In terms of its addictive .
SCHACHER: In terms of .
(NO SOUND)
PINSKY: Effect on our socioeconomic .
SCHACHER: In terms of being .
PINSKY: Hallucinating product? I mean there is nothing - in terms of potential for causing cancer? It turns in terms of potential for causing
cancer, it turns out alcohol is the worst.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: It can cause cancer tissue - cancer throughout the body. Nicotine, cigarettes, horrible potential for causing cancer. Neck, throat
- lungs, obviously. Listen, this is -- these are horrible substances with horrible problems associated with them. We don`t need to moralize about
them. Humans have a characteristic relationship with substances. You can study it, predict it, talk about it. For cannabis, for some people, highly
addictive. For some people not so much. For some people when they take it, they take (INAUDIBLE) - they have an opium withdrawal syndrome. So
what? That doesn`t mean whether it should be legal or illegal. That`s a separate issue.
Bringing my panel. Heather McDonald, comedian co-host "All about Sex" "Saturday Night," TLC, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, Professor
University, Erica America psychotherapist and radio host.
And Heather, I hear that -- let`s hear your opinion. You are a little bit more on Nancy side?
HEATHER MCDONALD: Listen, I kind of like what Nancy said. I don`t like pot. Raising kids, I think it`s going to make it harder to keep them from
doing it.
PINSKY: Why?
MCDONALD: If you don`t have .
PINSKY: Right now - right now you have the chances of getting your hands on?
MCDONALD: No, because before you could say, you could be arrested. You could go to jail.
That`s off the table, basically, and it will be by the time my kids are teenagers. Let`s face it. It`s basically legal.
PINSKY: Erica.
MCDONALD: So, I don`t live the pot, and I don`t - I think it`s a lazy drug.
PINSKY: Listen, it`s not about the kids, no doubt about it, listen, it changes kids` brains permanently.
MCDONALD: Yes.
PINSKY: The psychiatric consequences are profound, that`s a fact. It`s just a fact. Erica.
MCDONALD: I like that Nancy brought up the fact .
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: I like that Nancy said, kind of called him on his hypocrisy by saying you don`t let your kids have a coca cola, but you are all about
being with the hoes and smoking pot. That`s - and that`s kind of - that`s what`s hard. Because his persona is a rapper. And you cannot change your
job just because you have children .
PINSKY: Heather. Heather.
MCDONALD: No, I just kind of like that she pointed it out.
PINSKY: Heather, it drives me crazy .
MCDONALD: And I kind of like it.
PINSKY: Listen, it drives me crazy that people abuse substances also have to be vegan and have to be clean. It`s bizarre. It`s terrible thinking.
That`s another thing we can address that`s separate from whether it should be legalized. Erica, you get where I`m going here?
ERICA AMERICA: Yes. Absolutely. I totally agree with 2 Chainz. I mean I`m in the radio industry, so I actually have met 2 Chainz. I`m friendly
with him. And this is no surprise to me. I have known for a while that he is an intelligent guy, someone who has a strong authenticity about him.
And yes, he has these songs that are about -- all about them booties and hoes, but he is not like that at all. I know he is an amazing father. And
it`s so funny.
PINSKY: Well .
AMERICA: On Twitter, Drew, Chainz is going crazy. Everybody loves that you are saying Drew Chainz, yes, I don`t even smoke pot myself. But I am
pro legalization, because just like alcohol back in the day, it causes more crime just to take it out of the streets. People go crazy about it. And
it`s making our government focus limited funds on things when we really have bigger fish to fry.
PINSKY: I cannot stand that this drug has so much moralizing and bizarre political energy around it that we can`t even be rational about it. That
drives me out of my - mind. I want to show you more of Nancy`s debate with 2 Chainz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What I`m trying to say to you is that if this is legalized, then everybody is going to have unlimited access to pot. And unlike other
people that are responsible, irresponsible child abusers are going to have free access.
2 CHAINZ: Oh, I`m not sure if you know, but everybody has the ability to get their hands on pot right now, whether it`s legal or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s a great point that 2 Chainz makes. Judy, and then - I think I heard Nancy say that somehow it`s going to cause people to become
child abusers. I don`t know, Nancy.
JUDY HO: Yeah.
PINSKY: . about that logic. But let me spell out another fact, Judy. I worked very closely with some organizations in Colorado. In fact,
treatment centers in Colorado have seen a marked increase admissions for cannabis as the primary drug of addiction and the secondary drug of
addiction, pot. Cannabis. The same thing.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: But the point is, I don`t know that that`s bad. Maybe that`s people who would have languished for years before they ever got to
treatment. Then this sort of precipitated them coming to care, being more open about the -- coming to care, realizing they had a problem, the
conversion about this as a relationship that humans have that can cause real problems. More admissions for addiction. Good or bad in Colorado?
HO: Right. Well, you are absolutely right, Dr. Drew. We should bring it back to the rational side of things. Because everybody gets so emotional
about it. And as you mentioned, yes, the admissions have gone up. And another fact, 30 to 35 percent of casual users over the course of the year
will end up developing an addictive process to marijuana. So, that`s about a third. OK? So, that`s a big number. That`s a significant number. It`s
especially problematic if it`s in teenagers, young adults. As you mentioned. But even in older adults as well, we are starting to see
clinical studies that somehow their brain volume gets smaller.
PINSKY: OK.
HO: That there are certain things that happen. And we just don`t know enough yet. So, this is my problem with the misinformation out there
there`s no long-term consequences.
PINSKY: All right, Judy is talking about the structural changes in the brain that occur when people smoke, even moderate amounts of cannabis.
They occur. Fact, fact, fact. Sorry guys, but with adults, after the age of 21, that remits, goes back to normal when you are not smoking pot. If
you are 11 or 12 when you start smoking pot, and you smoke even a modest amount, those changes become permanent.
HO: And Dr. Drew, that`s the problem in Colorado. Is that we do see a marked increase in those pre-teens and teenagers.
PINSKY: That`s a problem. And people who determine the laws need to decide if they want to take that risk or not. If that`s a fact - Colorado
is a great study environment, first look at, and then make the decision based on the facts is this something we want to get into further? We may
decide to, we may decide not to. I don`t care. I`m interested in helping people. Erica, you want to make a last comment here?
AMERICA: Yes, absolutely. About you saying that there`s so many things that are addictive. What about exercises. Are we going to close all the
gyms because some people are addicted to exercise? Or are we going to get rid of all the sugar because some people are addicted to sugar?
No, people have to police themselves.
PINSKY: First of all, Heather, how dare - how did Erica bring up my exercise bulimia? I`m sure - it`s vulnerable at times like this.
MCDONALD: That`s ridiculous, but, you know, people are using prescription drugs like they never have before either.
PINSKY: There`s never been a bigger problem than that - that`s what kills people right now. When we seem to be sweeping - -- well, we start trying
to deal with that problem. We are starting to deal with that problem. But that`s a massive, massive health problem in this country. It is public
enemy number one. People are dying of pharmaceutical drugs. Here is the great head liner, buddy, this is why I`m Drew Chainz tonight, which is
because - because Erica, suddenly I have become your best friend.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: It`s because - it`s because well .
AMERICA: I love 2 Chainz.
PINSKY: I know that. I get that. I`m seeing that. But the fact is, that if you are going to die of addiction, the overwhelming probability is you
are going to die of a combination of oral opiates and oral benzodiazepines. Pharmaceutical prescription medication. And that`s what`s happening today.
But to keep this debate going, we have more from Nancy Grace and 2 Chainz conversation. Please, tweet us. Give us our hashtag, which has now become
#Drewchainz. Chainz. Wow. That`s something I didn`t foresee when the show started tonight.
And later, this - I got to get to this, a transgender teen`s suicide has an impact on Hollywood social media and the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Smoking California weed with California whores. Excuse me. True. I left that one out.
2 CHAINZ: True.
GRACE: Smoking California weed with California whores.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: My weed so loud, everybody listen.
2 CHAINZ: Yes.
GRACE: I`m so high like an attic. Good weed, bad bitch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam. With click fix, the stories you were discussing most online tonight, you have been discussing pot and Drew
Chainz. Should it be legalized for recreational use, Nancy Grace got into it with 2 Chainz. Now, here`s my point. I have got many points,
obviously.
SCHACHER: Yes, you do. And I love it.
PINSKY: And Sam, I am sick and tired, I`m sick and tired of people moralizing around pot. And I`m sick and tired of people attacking me for
just discussing the facts around the relationship that humans have with substances. There are facts. There`s moralizing. Let`s talk about what`s
true. Yes, Sam.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, you brought up in the last segment the fact that prescription pills .
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: It - it kills people.
PINSKY: If you are a drug addict, that`s what you are probably going to die of. But if you, Sam, develop a horrible pancreatic cancer, those same
pills, those same pills are God send.
SCHACHER: Right. So, why .
PINSKY: So, if the pills are not bad. Pot`s not bad. Alcohol is not. Pills not bad.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: It`s the relationship and the context that becomes a problem for some people in certain context.
SCHACHER: But how strange is it that there`s this moral argument surrounding pot, but you don`t see people having that argument when it
comes to prescription pills.
PINSKY: Well, you do when people get addicted to the pills. They go, oh, there`s a horrible drug addict.
SCHACHER: But I work with people .
PINSKY: They are bad people.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I work with teens all the time. And they have this misconception that prescription pills .
PINSKY: Are safe.
SCHACHER: . are safe because they can get it prescribed to them.
PINSKY: That`s right. Because a doctor gave it to them. Absolutely. Panel, Kelvin Washington, radio host, Vanessa Barnett, hiphollywood.com,
Anna Elise Goetz, attorney, they are all here. We are going to look at this clip from Nancy`s show. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Are you telling me, 2 Chainz that my only two choices are to get my child high on pot or get him drunk on booze? How about neither one? How
about it not be legal for recreational use?
2 CHAINZ: I didn`t say that.
GRACE: No, you said - you said, you are showing video of a kid getting high on pot.
2 CHAINZ: That`s - that`s kind of what you use in this. I can`t help that`s all really you got -if you are using this one example. And I`m
trying to tell you, that you .
GRACE: No, I showed you like ten.
2 CHAINZ: Like you just google that footage. Google someone giving their child alcohol. And I bet it`d be hundreds of pages to go through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kelvin, he is absolutely right. I deal with this all the time. First of all, I heard Nancy argue in favor of illegalizing alcohol. I
heard her say that.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: I heard that. And that`s rational. You can make them all illegal. OK. That`s fine. That`s rational. But the deal is, I can`t
tell you how often parents go, we teach our kids how to manage alcohol. We dilute the wine when they are five years old. Look at the statistics on
what happens to those kids. The probability of alcoholism goes up at least eight times. Kelvin.
WASHINGTON: You know, I`m not - I`m not one who is about the drinking or smoking at all. I myself do neither. Do none of that.
PINSKY: I`m sure. I`m sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
WASHINGTON: To 2 Chainz point, it seems like she was on a witch hunt to find anything. And I don`t like that, but she keep bringing up his lyrics,
which is like you said something we can debate for another show. But if the guy -- everyone who wants to smoke weed smokes weed. I don`t think if
it`s legal or illegal the numbers increase or decrease. I think people who want it, get it and I think to correlate it with alcohol -- if she`s going
to show video of - well, look at this one random video of a kid smoking weed, to his point, how many times have kids drinking beer, have kids
drinking wine, all over the Internet, all over Instagram. So, for her to pick one video and try to attack him, it didn`t make any sense.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But here is a fact. Here`s a fact. I agree with you, Kelvin. Here is a fact. Cannabis exposure to young brains, it`s worse. It is
worse. It`s just the fact. That`s just the way it is.
WASHINGTON: I`m not arguing - I`m not arguing the scientific point. I mean again, I don`t think it`s a good thing for you. But for us to act
like it`s the end of the world if someone smokes weed - and to Sam`s point, I think prescription pills for some, maybe it`s a white collar crime or
something, and weed heads, we look at it - it`s like, you know, some druggie.
PINSKY: You are bad. You are bad.
WASHINGTON: Maybe something like that - I don`t know.
PINSKY: You are bad. Listen, I would rather meet a pot head than an alcoholic. But I`m just saying. But Anna Elise, let me give you how nutty
this all gets. The conjonors (ph) of pot, the things that the chemicals that are derived from pot that could be helpful medically, physicians like
myself, we can`t even get our hands on because there`s a moral shroud around the very molecule. How insane is that!
GOETZ: Well, it`s illegal, though, Dr. Drew. That`s why .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Why? But why does it have to be scheduled --
GOETZ: People keep on saying, if you want to smoke it, smoke it. It`s illegal. I don`t understand why we are promoting an illegal activity.
PINSKY: Vanessa, I`m not promoting illegal activity. I`m not saying that people should go out and smoke pot. Let`s be very, very clear about that.
BARNETT: I get that, but .
PINSKY: I`m saying that the illegal is - the legalization or illegalization is overly moralized or ignoring facts.
BARNETT: But at the end of the day, Dr. Drew, at the end of the day, our Twitter followers and Instagram followers, which I`m just saying, because
they went in on me, because they thought I went in on you, all they hear is, oh, yeah, Drew Chainz, he wants us to smoke pot.
PINSKY: No.
BARNETT: As a clinician .
PINSKY: No, I don`t want them to smoke pot.
BARNETT: And someone with the medical .
What you say has a big .
PINSKY: Thank you for pointing that out. I don`t want them to smoke pot.
BARNETT: And you just said that prescription pills .
PINSKY: Yeah.
BARNETT: Unfortunately kids think they are safe because they are prescribed.
PINSKY: They are not.
BARNETT: So, people look around and say, hey, marijuana is now legal, it`s safe, that`s what they are hearing. That`s what they are seeing. And so,
it`s not just that Dr. Drew is now Drew Chainz, that he`s promoting weed. What you are saying is, if you don`t care, then that`s almost even worse.
You can`t be indifferent.
PINSKY: If I`m indifferent to the law, whether or not there`s a law for it or against it?
BARNETT: You have to be the one to educate us.
PINSKY: I would love to be .
BARNETT: That`s your role.
PINSKY: I would love - Vanessa, thank you for that. I would love that. But people are unwilling to listen because they are either moralizing or
irrationally political or they are -- they just -- there`s so much crazy energy around it. You can`t even talk about it. That`s what drives me out
of my mind.
WASHINGTON: Drew, thanks. Is this because in the `60s, we look it - to the hippies, and we`ve associated it with that - is it also because we
looked at it as, well, those rappers, all that smoking weed and pot? What do you think? Where do we get this? This tone from - Because again, I`m
not promoting it at all. I`m not about it. But to your point, nicotine, alcohol, kill almost 600,000 people combined a year. I don`t get it. I
don`t - this is why .
PINSKY: Nor do I think it`s appropriate for you to do. It should be legal because there`s no such thing as death by overdose from pot. That doesn`t
mean it should be legal. That doesn`t mean that.
SCHACHER: Question for Drew Chainz.
PINSKY: Yes, it will not kill you if you smoke a lot, but you can become psychotic. Fact, they can. You can get addicted, fact. Do we want it to
be illegal? You guys decide. But look at it very carefully. What`s up, Sam?
SCHACHER: Yeah, I also had a question for Drew Chainz. OK, so you - you know, with all your work in treatment centers, how often do you see people
come in in comparison to other people that are addicted to other substances to people that are addicted to marijuana?
PINSKY: Say it again.
SCHACHER: How often do you see people come into your treatment center that are addicted to pot? I n comparison to, say, other things like pills?
PINSKY: Very common - very, oh, well, I don`t know if I can get that down of the top of my head, but I can tell you this, this is what I would say.
A common combination is alcohol, stimulants and pot. That`s a common combo. And when people start - and they use a lot of all three. But when
they stop them, the one they really miss, the one they love is the pot. That`s the one they just have the most -- they love it and they have
difficulty stopping. They go back and they chip on it - and it leads them back into their addictive process. These are realities, fact. Just a
fact. It doesn`t - you guys, please, decide. What kind of world do you want to live in? What kind of society do you want to create -- if you are
going to create - if the facts in Colorado look as though it`s going to impact on children, take a good look at that next time you start deciding
what the laws ought to be. But don`t say -- don`t do what Nancy did. And God bless you, Nancy. I love you, no, I do. But don`t get into a
moralizing posture. It just clouds the facts and the truth from people making really rational decisions about what kinds of laws they want in
their land. It`s up to us.
Next up, transgender teen`s death impacting social media and the world. And later, a wife who was cheated on gets revenge on her husband by cutting
off his penis with the pair of scissors not once, but once it`s reattached, she cuts it off again. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I was 14, I learned what transgender meant and cried of happiness. After ten years of confusion, I finally understood who
I was. I immediately told my mom and she reacted extremely negatively telling me that it was a phase. That I would never truly be a girl. That
God doesn`t make mistakes. That I am wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These parents bullied their child into suicide and should be arrested and thrown in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Parents were trying, coming from their lack of experience, their lack of understanding, to do what they thought was right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Either I live the rest of my life as a lonely man who wishes you were a woman or I live my life as a lonelier woman who hates
herself. There`s no winning. There`s no way out. I`m sad enough already. I don`t need my life to get any worse. People say it gets better, but that
isn`t true in my case. It gets worse. Each day I get worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam for what we call seriously? Those moments - headline, we cannot believe what we are seeing and hearing, especially in those situations where there`s a tragic outcome.
The name Leelah Alcorn has been tweeted almost 100,000 times since her death in December. Thousands people searched her name when a Golden Globe
Award was dedicated to her memory. Her suicide note posted on her Tumblr page went viral. Leelah`s mother spoke to CNN, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yeah, she did, Dr. Drew. And first of all, Leelah`s mother said that she never even heard the name Leelah until she read the t suicide
note. She also says that as far as Leelah talking to her about being transgender, she claims that Leelah only talked to her about it once. She
told CNN, "We don`t support that religiously, but we told him that we love him unconditionally. We loved him no matter what - I loved my son. People
need to know that I loved him. He was a kid, a good kid, a good boy.
PINSKY: All right. Joining us on the panel, transgender performance artist Nina Arsenault, Heather and Erica are back with us. Nina, I want to
go to your first. Does what -- I want to frame this by saying, I`m not interested in attacking this mother. This mother lost a child. I don`t
want to create another victim. But my question, perhaps more subtly is, does what this mother is saying disturb you?
NINA ARSENAULT, BORN MALE IDENTIFIED AS FEMALE: Oh, absolutely it disturbs me. Yes. Her child committed suicide. And it turned to her with the most
vulnerable, primal parts of herself. Our gender is such a core part of ourselves. And to have that denied and particularly on a spiritual level
even with their religious believes, it`s appalling.
PINSKY: If you had a chance, Nina, to speak to that mom when she was struggling with her -- at that time she perceived to be her son, what would
you tell her?
ARSENAULT: Well, what I would say is this. Just imagine for a moment that if you woke up in the middle of the night tonight, you looked down, you
took the covers off your body and you saw the genitals of the opposite sex on your own body. What feelings of trauma would that put into you? How
would that affect your ability to give and receive love? Just take a moment. One, two, three, four, five. Five seconds and imagine what that
would be like. And then ask yourself what resources does a child or a teenager have to deal with that if they don`t have the support of their
family and community.
PINSKY: You know, Heather, this came to a poignant perspective for me when I heard Cher talk about it when she was discussing Chaz as the transgender
transformation, and she said, you know, she goes - Cher said I love being female so much. I could just imagine how awful it must be to suddenly not
like that and be upset about your gender.
MCDONALD: Right. I mean I just feel -- I really feel badly for this woman. Because I mean hopefully, this is a lesson to any parent that when
their child does come, they are going to remember this story and immediately talk to this child and maybe get him or her help. Because I
feel like this woman probably didn`t think that it was at that level that he was at a suicidal level.
PINSKY: Of course, yeah.
MCDONALD: She was just trying to grasp it. I mean every little boy walks around in heels, you don`t immediately think that they actually want to be
a girl. She might have just not taken it as seriously as she should have. And I just think, you know, it`s so terrible. Because whenever there`s a
teen suicide, everybody looks to the parent like they did something wrong. And it`s got to be the worst feeling in the world, worse than any other way
of losing a child. It`s somehow pointed like you did something wrong. And I really feel badly for them.
PINSKY: And so again, understand why we`re approaching this, the way we`re approaching this is argument is we`re trying to understand what we`re doing
wrong, all of us, what we are all doing wrong that we`re not helping parents understand and see and perceive and support these kinds of things
when something like this happens to someone like they love comes to them with these sorts of issues. On the phone I have Liz Gordos who worked with
Leelah at an amusement park.
Now, Liz, your understanding was that Leelah was a gay male and she presented as - she presented as male to you at work. And by the way, full
discloser for me. Maybe, Nina, you can straighten me out. I have trouble - I don`t have the language to talk about this often times. I stumble.
Please straighten me out. I`m happy to be educated about this. But don`t attack everybody.
ARSENAULT: Sure.
PINSKY: I`m just trying to .
So, Liz, you can answer that question.
LIZ GORDOS: Well, (POOR SOUND) to working with Leelah for the short summer that I did work with her, it is true THAT she did only come out to me as a
gay male. And honestly, I think it was because of the fact that when you feel so confused in your sexuality and then like you are told by counselors
and by people that are supposed to support you that what you are feeling is wrong, like all of a sudden you are thrown into a spot where people do
accept you and then you are in that gray area of like, will they accept me if I come out?
PINSKY: Right.
GORDOS: Oh, it could be wrong.
PINSKY: I imagine -- Erica I see its concern on your face - I imagine if people already tell you your sexual orientation is wrong, if I reveal this,
- more tender issue, oh my god. Erica, what might they think of that?
AMERICA: No, absolutely. I mean I think this is just a heartbreaking story from the level of the parents to friends and family. And I guess I
just - what I would like to see on all levels, parents, friends and family is just an openness that whatever their child tells them about their
sexuality that it`s OK and that we are going to figure this out together. Because that feeling that the child has, whether it`s just that there are
gay or straight, that is transgender, is that - oh, my god, they are not going to accept me. I want to kill myself. And they don`t -- the parents
don`t realize how deadly this feeling is within a child like this.
PINSKY: How dangerous this is.
AMERICA: And how dangerous it is. And that it can g- it can lead to suicide. So, I don`t know if we need to have some kind of education around
this. But it sounds like the parents, even after the fact, are still saying, my son and my son. And so, I mean, some of it might be just kind
of built in with religion and stuff.
PINSKY: Well .
AMERICA: But it`s just - I mean - the training could help.
PINSKY: Nina, let me sort of finish this conversation with you. What do we need to do? What do all of us need to do?
ARSENAULT: Well, I think that we need to acknowledge the seriousness of the matter. When someone refers to me in an inappropriate gender
pronounce, someone calls me a man, I would consider that probably the same -- with the same gravity that a black person would feel when they are
addressed with the n word. It`s that insulting.
PINSKY: So, keep that in mind.
ARSENAULT: And it`s absolutely. It`s a deep psychic wound when you are born in the wrong body and your - that wound is reopened on a constant
basis with transphobia. And I think we have to also acknowledge that transgendered women are the most recent franchise - disadvantage people and
culture at this point. And just to extend the metaphor that I brought up there, to say, you know, there`s so much things going on with race
relations in the states. Could you imagine if there was as many transgendered people as there are black people in the United States?
Compare that to the amount of discrimination we face on a daily basis. Many transwoman feel that they are constantly negotiating a hostile world.
Every time we need the house.
PINSKY: Thank you for that. I have to interrupt. I`ve got to go to break, and we are switching topics. Thank you, panel.
A husband`s penis cut off by his wife. She learns he`s cheating, she does it twice. That`s the story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 32-year-old father of five is reportedly recovering in a hospital after his wife allegedly chopped off his penis twice.
According to news reports, the man was having an affair with a 21-year-old lover. And when his wife discovered the alleged infidelity, she used the
pair of scissors to cut off his penis as he slept. The doctors reattached the appendage, but his wife allegedly struck again, reportedly so irate,
she snuck into her husband`s recovery room, chopped off his penis a second time and flung it out of window.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Time for what the WTF. This segment is precisely what the name suggests. It is the most shocking story of the night, dominating social
media. We are back with Sam, Kelvin, Heather and Judy.
The story of this alleged - this might copy - castrated cheater. But more - not castrated. He`s - the fallos has been removed. This reportedly
happened in China. Right, Sam?
SCHACHER: Oh, yes, Dr. Drew. OK, so brace yourself, everybody as you heard enough in the previous package, 32 years old, father of five. And
his attacker is reportedly his 30-year-old wife. Now, he supposedly went on her cell phone to send a really hot and provocative e-mail to his secret
lover. She`s 21 years old. He forgets to log out of her phone. She discovers this steamy e-mail as well as other e-mails. She becomes irate.
Waits until he falls asleep. Cuts his penis off with scissors. Then he goes to the hospital. They reattach it. The doctors, then she sneaks into
his recovery room, cuts it off again, flings it out the window. And Dr. Drew, the doctors ran out to try to find his member, so to speak. But they
could not. They believe that a stray dog or cat ran off with it.
PINSKY: Heather, give me that face again. What .
MCDONALD: OK, first of all.
PINSKY: You look like the most .
MCDONALD: I mean I`m just cringing. But we all remember Lorena Bobbitt. Maybe some of the kids at home were too young to know, but she was the Rosa
Parks of cutting off people`s penises that have done her wrong. So, here is this woman in China. First of all, how are you having five kids in
China? Does that - Law doesn`t apply .
PINSKY: Maybe it`s Hong Kong or something. I don`t know.
MCDONALD: OK. Well, and then it`s said that she was only 21, too. I don`t know if that -- maybe that information wasn`t correct. The wife and
the mistress --
PINSKY: Maybe there are five kids .
SCHACHER: No, the wife is 30.
PINSKY: OK.
MCDONALD: Like did she give birth to all five kids? That would piss you off. If you gave birth to all five kids -
PINSKY: Heather, frankly, I was not worried about details like that. I was worried about this guy that had his penis cut off twice. And here`s
what I want to know from Judy.
MCDONALD: I have feeling for her.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s my question, Judy. Do you think every woman is capable of being pushed to this point? Yes or no?
HO: No, I don`t believe so.
PINSKY: Thank you. Kelvin, we are fine.
HO: Yeah, there is definitely people - Exactly, Kelvin. Everybody is safe. Dr. Drew and Kelvin, you guys are safe. Because I think there were
definitely warning signs about this woman before. There must have been some kind of emotional instability.
PINSKY: All right. We`ll get more after the break. And the results of our poll. There is still time. Do you blame the wife? And if you would
like more HLN, check us out live wherever you go on the HLN to go app available for Apple products, android devices. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are back with WTF. Sam, Kelvin, Heather, Judy join me. We are talking about a father of five in China whose wife learned of his affair
alleged with the 21-year old mistress, so chopped his penis off. When he got it sewn back on Kelvin, she chopped it off again and threw it out the
window and then s stray dog - prey - that over or something happened and no possibility .
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: Oh, my god.
PINSKY: Stray dog or cat got it, that is bizarre.
WASHINGTON: The story is just getting more and more out of hand. Heather, Rosa Parks was a hero. This lady is crazy.
We cannot compare the two.
MCDONALD: I know. I`m just joking. I`m just saying, she`s not the first is all I`m saying.
WASHINGTON: Dr. Drew.
MCDONALD: She`s not the first.
PINSKY: And she can kill - but she is Heather`s personal idol. But go ahead, Kelvin.
WASHINGTON: So, Dr. Drew, the man has to drink water at some point.
PINSKY: Yes.
WASHINGTON: How is he going to urinate? Don`t answer that. How is he going to make love to probably not her again, probably the 21-year-old
again?
PINSKY: Yeah.
WASHINGTON: What is he going to do?
PINSKY: He`s not .
MCDONALD: I`m pretty sure the 21-year-old who`s going to bail.
SCHACHER: No, she says she`s still down. She says she`s going to stick around.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDONALD: A dad with five kids and doesn`t have a penis? Not a great package.
WASHINGTON: Maybe she`s okay with the tree stump. I don`t know.
HO: She actually said she`s OK with it.
PINSKY: Yeah, Kelvin, there`s not going to be intercourse, Kelvin. There are some bizarre plastic procedures out there that you can reconstruct the
whole thing. There are some guys who have .
SCHACHER: Are they successful?
PINSKY: They are peculiar. They are not like - you know, it`s Frankenstein. Let`s be fair.
SCHACHER: Oh, no.
MCDONALD: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yeah, and it`s sad. And yet urologically - you can get things prepared pretty easily, so the urinary system works. But the sexual
functioning --
WASHINGTON: At least he got the five kids out of the way, right?
PINSKY: Yeah, he`s - and he`s funny. Here we go. The HLN vote, this is on our website. After catching her husband cheating, a wife allegedly
chopped off the penis, do you blame her? 63 percent say yes, but .
SCHACHER: 37 percent?
MCDONALD: That`s amazing.
WASHINGTON: That`s a lot of people. 37 percent.
MCDONALD: I would have done the same thing they say? That`s crazy.
SCHACHER: Also, I`m very impressed with the strength of the scissors. I would like to know who made those scissors. Were they made in China?
Because they`re excellent.
PINSKY: Judy, who do you think these women are that are saying yes they would do the same thing? It takes my breath away. You understand?
HO: Dr. Drew, I think these are the scorned women who have been cheated on before. And they fantasize about doing something that would be so hurtful.
PINSKY: My wife keeps saying, he would do this. Do you think she`s capable of it, Judy?
HO: Who, your wife?
PINSKY: Heather?
MCDONALD: Yes, your wife is 100 percent capable.
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: Thank you.
WASHINGTON: Sleep with one eye open.
SCHACHER: I don`t believe that.
WASHINGTON: Sleep with one eye open, brothers.
SCHACHER: Oh, my -- I don`t believe it.
MCDONALD: I don`t think she would do it. She would threaten you.
HO: She`s too squeamish.
PINSKY: We`ll check this out for the after show. I`m not sure what the topic will be. I`m suspecting pot.
DVR us, you can watch us any time. "Forensic Files" up next.
END
