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Failed Plot to Attack Congress Revealed; Discussion of Social Media and Terrorism; More Links to European Countries Revealed in Terror Attack Investigation; Protesters Block Thoroughfare in Massachusetts

Aired January 15, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin this hour with a failed plot to attack the homeland and a would be terrorist in handcuffs. According to the FBI, Chris Cornell, a 20-year-old man from the suburbs of Cincinnati planned to travel to Washington, D.C., then set off pipe bombs at the Capitol and gun down lawmakers and staff as they tried to escape. This morning his father is blasting the FBI accusing the agency of setting up his son. I spoke with John Cornell a short time ago and asked him how his family is doing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN CORNELL, FATHER OF CHRIS CORNELL: My wife is just totally heartbroken. I've gone from shock to heartbroken to almost having feelings of anger, and I'll explain why. I know the FBI are saying they had an informant that, you know, Christopher had supposedly made these statements on Twitter. And, you know, when you say informant, he's not an informant. What he was is a person that had criminal charges pending and is a snitch. He became a snitch for the FBI, and I'm telling you my son -- I'm not saying he's a saint. He's 20 years old, going on 16. He's a big kid. He's never been outside of Cincinnati other than to wrestle at some wrestling tournaments when he was a kid. There's no way on the face of this earth that he plotted this by himself.

There's no way he could have came up with this. I know my son better than anyone. I believe that he met with this informant before the informant ever contacted the FBI. I believe this informant filled his head with a bunch of garbage. I believe he was tricked, tricked into correspondence afterwards. The informant supposedly came to my house and picked Christopher up on a couple of occasions. He was probably wearing a wire. But this guy, we never even really got a good look at him. Like I said, my son Christopher is 20 years old going on 16.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But John Cornell's son was arrested yesterday afternoon in the parking lot of a gun store near his home after he purchased two semiautomatic rifles and 600 rounds of ammunition. Alexandra Field joins us now from outside of that gun shop with more. ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Carol, after months of

watching Christopher Cornell authorities made their arrest two miles away from his home in the parking lot of this gun shop. This is where they say he bought two weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. It was the final piece of evidence, which they say led them to believe that his alleged talk about an attack wasn't just talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: An Ohio man now in custody for allegedly plotting an ISIS inspired attack at the U.S. Capitol. Officials say Christopher Lee Cornell was planning to detonate pipe bombs around the building and then shoot people as they fled. The 20-year-old came to the FBI's attention several months ago for alarming social media posts talking about violent jihad. In an undercover operation the FBI says Cornell told an informant he had contacts overseas that he had aligned himself with ISIS and believed lawmakers were his enemy.

A criminal complaint says Cornell did not think he would receive authorization to conduct a terrorist attack in the United States, but wanted to wage jihad on his own writing I believe we should meet up and make our own group in alliance with the Islamic State here and plan operations ourselves. He researched the targeted government buildings and the construction of pipe bombs. Wednesday Cornell purchased two M-15s and 600 rounds of ammunition from this gun store in Cincinnati before FBI agents arrested him in the parking lot. WKRC obtained this image of his arrest from a customer inside a nearby store. The gun store owner who had been cooperating with authorities described Cornell's demeanor.

JOHN DEAN, OWNER, POINT BLANK GUN STORE: There wasn't really anything about him that would have suggested he was involved in something like this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Carol, law enforcement sources tell CNN that because they were able to follow Cornell for so many months as they did this investigation, lawmakers were never in any imminent danger. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Alexandra Field reporting.

FIELD: Now, the FBI says Christopher Cornell under the name Raheel Ubaydah used Twitter to express a support for ISIS and for violent Jihad. He also used social media to plot violence with a co- conspirator. That conspirator, as you now know, happened to be an FBI informant. Still, the fact that suspects like Cornell use Twitter has angered the British Prime Minister David Cameron. He'll urge President Obama today to force Twitter and Facebook to take tougher action against terrorists who use social media.

The thing is, is that even possible? So, let's talk about that with White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski. I'm also joined by CNN intelligence and security analyst Robert Baer and CNN social media expert Samuel Burke. I want to start with you, Michelle.

Mr. Cameron will try to get the president to pressure this American companies. But that's a tall order, isn't it?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely is. I mean it's a tall order in America to get certain amounts of information from these companies. Because they protect privacy and they make a big deal of doing so. In Britain, the government can simply ask certain telecoms to turn over information and records when needed. By law, they have to do that. So, I'm sure Britain would love American companies who do business in Britain or have clients in Britain to do the same. But if those American companies were to do that, they would be braking privacy laws in America.

So, right off the bat, that's really not going to happen. It did emerge just in the past year, though, that American companies like Google and like Facebook do comply with NSA schemes that are private to turn over certain information when it's asked for. It's not as if the NSA has direct access to a giant pool of information from these companies, but they do comply with it. That's all kept very secret, though. So it's not as if there's a lot of detail out there or that these companies themselves are even talking about it.

The other issue is encryption. Because even with court orders, when companies turn over information to law enforcement, often it's in an encrypted form and law enforcement has had a tough time get getting to the bottom of that. The British would like that encryption to also be curtailed.

But again, it's going to be very difficult to do this. It's this big battle between privacy and law enforcement needs, Carol.

COSTELLO: And I want to pose the next question to Samuel then. You know, we hear all the time that extremists get ideas to become -- can be radicalized through social media. So, what does Facebook and Twitter do to prevent that?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the problem is they have this huge pool to look at. And it's becoming very difficult for them to look at it -look at that because they have so many users. Literally over a billion users in some cases. Then the other thing we have to think about here is because of the Snowden leaks, because of what the NSA does, a lot of technology companies are trying to make it so that even if the government comes to them and says we have a warrant, we can look at this, they're making it so the information isn't even there anymore, so that it disappears after a certain amount of time or so that it's there, but only the user themselves can decrypt that encrypted information, not them.

COSTELLO: I got you. So, I'll pose this question to Robert Baer. Because British police have slammed - they slammed Facebook just last year for creating a safe haven for terrorists. Is that fair?

ROBERT BAER, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean it's something of a safe haven. But look at it from the intelligence officer's perspective. If British intelligence, GCHQ, couldn't monitor Facebook and Twitter accounts, a lot of these people would, you know, come under the radar. Most cases in this country and in Britain are broken thanks to monitoring these social media sites. So, if you simply close these people down, they're going to find other ways to communicate and you'd lose sight of them. If the Kouachi brothers had been up on Twitter describing what they were going to do, at any sense, the French would have caught them. And the fact is they went off social media. So, they were able to communicate personally and that's how the attack occurred without being stopped in advance.

COSTELLO: But I think later, and I'll pose this question to you, Michelle, the British prime minister is saying sometimes Facebook and Twitter doesn't share information. And you heard from Samuel why. He's even talking about possibly banning Facebook and Twitter if they don't turn over pertinent information.

KOSINSKI: There is that argument on the other side that there are certain restrictions in place that if pedophiles or child pornography, if that's flagged, then that can be stopped. But it's not like there's something similar that goes into an effect, a sort of alert for things like terrorist activity. It is extremely difficult to monitor. And there's free speech, also. I mean there was a case about that just recently, that, you know, if someone is saying something that looks like it's leading to violence, well, that could be considered freedom of expression up and to a point. Who is really to determine that?

So when you start digging in a little bit more and encroaching more on privacy, you're opening up a whole other can of worms as to, you know, how someone is going to interpret what someone said. This is going to be an argument that goes on for a very long time. It's hard to imagine that David Cameron is going to get what he wants. It is possible, though, that the U.S. will agree to work more closely with British law enforcement and ask these companies for information and maybe make a more clear case, put on a little bit more pressure, that this information case by case is critical and important and could prevent violence on an imminent basis.

COSTELLO: I see Samuel nodding his head over here.

BURKE: Because there are two different sides going on here. On the one hand yes, these governments want us to store more information, they want these companies to store information. Then on the other hand, people like me reporting on cyber security hear from the cyber experts, we go on CNN and tell people that we should start moving to new forms of communication where everything is deleted, that way we don't see hacks like Sony. Imagine if those e-mails from Sony had all been deleted once they were sent, we had this so-called erasable Internet maybe one day and then if somebody tried to hack you, there would be no information to be hacked. So, you have these two conflicting interests going on in cyber security experts really pushing for that so-called erasable Internet.

COSTELLO: And I hear what you say, Bob that, you know, Facebook and Twitter can be useful to investigators, too. But at what point does it become dangerous?

BAER: I don't think it's dangerous. You know, look, ISIS has moved to mobile Wi-Fi. They simply drive along the road, take a shot, a satellite shot, download their message on the Internet. And 40 minutes later they take it off. And there's nothing that National Security Agency or GCHQ can do about it. So, we can talk about going after these big sites, but ultimately, it's a drop in the bucket and these people are very sophisticated and they can manipulate the airwaves and get around our surveillance. There are black holes that we just can't see into.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Thanks to all of you, Michelle Kosinski, Samuel Burke, Bob Baer.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, piecing together the last movements of the terrorists. French investigators say they have new leads emerging from the days before the deadly siege on that kosher grocery store. CNN's Jim Sciutto is in Paris.

SCIUTTO: Carol, the more investigators look, the more those leads take them outside of France to other countries in Europe, the Middle East, Syria, Yemen. We'll have more after this break.

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COSTELLO: In France, police are gaining new insights into the final days of one of the terrorists. Jim Sciutto is in Paris this morning. And this investigation is huge.

SCIUTTO: No question, Carol. The more they look, the probe keeps expanding, not just beyond Paris but beyond France, into Europe, into the Middle East. Today add Belgium to that list of countries under the microscope. Federal prosecutors there tell us a man is under arrest in connection with arms trafficking and he could have ties to the killer inside that kosher grocery store. He recently bought a car from that terrorist's girlfriend.

Secretary of State John Kerry will be arriving in Paris later today and will meet with the French president tomorrow. Kerry, the highest ranking U.S. official to visit France since the attacks.

And there are funerals for two more victims today, both killed here at the "Charlie Hebdo" offices, one a cartoonist, the second a police officer who was providing security for the staff of the magazine.

We want to focus more on the investigation and we have CNN's international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen. Fred, the more we look at this, the more investigators look at this, you hear this and watch this web expanding beyond France, Belgium today and others. How far have investigators traced this so far?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they seem to be trying to follow the trace of the money and the trace of the weapons as well. If we go and try to create a timeline of what seems to have happened, it seems as though Amedy Coulibaly who's, of course, the man who held up at that kosher grocery store seems to have gone to the border between France and Belgium, taken out a loan for 6,000 euros or $7,000 and gone across the border to Belgium, to Charleroi, to that arms dealer that you were just talking about, who, by the way, turned himself into authorities by himself. On Tuesday, he acquired at least two weapons there. A Scorpion machine pistol as well as the Tokara handgun. Apparently, then Coulibaly seems to have gone back to Paris. Now, sometime before the attack, apparently on New Year's Day, or not, on New Year's Eve, he went down with Hayat Boumedienne, his wife, down to Madrid. Dropped her off there. There was a third person with the two, she then took that flight to Istanbul, he went back to Paris and perpetrated those attacks. Now, we do not know whether the third person that they had with them in Madrid might be the man that we saw on that surveillance video at Istanbul airport when she arrived there or whether or not it might be this fourth suspect that investigators here are looking for, some believe that a man linked to some scooter keys that were found in Coulibaly's apartment might be a man who might have driven him to the kosher supermarket when he perpetrated those attacks.

So, you are absolutely right. This is spanning more and more countries and it's getting more and more complicated, this web of jihadists that perpetrated these attacks.

SCIUTTO: It's interesting, Fred, that the accused arms seller there turned himself in, gives the impression that he did not know what the attackers were going to do with those weapons, turning himself in after the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks.

PLEITGEN: Well, that's certainly possible. But from some media reports that I'm reading, it appears as though this man is a known arms dealer. He seems to sell arms on the black market, possibly to mafia organizations. Belgium is a place that actually has quite a big black market for arms. He apparently, and this is according to media reports again, got quite afraid when he found out that Coulibaly was a jihadist and was fearing for his own life, of course, as well, but then, of course, also learned of the attacks and turned himself in right afterwards. So, did he know who he was selling these arms to, did he know what Coulibaly had planned? At this point, we simply don't know. But he certainly went to the authorities himself, obviously at some point realizing that he was part of a very, very large investigation into arguably the worst terror attack in France's modern day history.

SCIUTTO: Selling arms regardless for the reason bad enough. You know, it's interesting, thanks very much, Frederik Pleitgen. It's interesting, Carol, as you look at this you had a lot of travel going on in the lead-up to this attack by people connected. It seems that people involved in this plot were making preparations to get out of dodge, get out of the country before the attack was under way so that they can make it away from France, possibly into Syria and elsewhere before authorities could track them down.

COSTELLO: All right, Jim Sciutto, we'll check back with you in Paris in minutes. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: I have an update now on this morning's protest that snarled the morning commute in Boston. Two stretches of I-93, which go through the heart of the hub is back open, but it was closed for hours this morning because dozens of people chanting "Black lives matter" were in the middle of the roadway. The protesters, many chained to barrels filled with concrete are part of the movement calling attention to recent police killings of unarmed African-American suspects. I talked with Lieutenant Daniel Richard of the Massachusetts state police last hour about the mess this created during rush hour.

LT. DANIEL RICHARD, MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE: The individuals that we dealt with this morning unloaded heavy barrels into the roadway, attached themselves to the barrels and they also attached themselves to each other across the highway, bringing traffic to a standstill.

COSTELLO: Did they chain themselves together?

RICHARD: I'm not exactly sure how they -- what they attached themselves with. I believe it may have been zip ties. However, the investigation will prove out exactly how they attached themselves. It was quite an effort to get them separated and to get them off the highway. As a matter of fact, we just got word that the last protester was taken from the northbound side in Milton.

COSTELLO: Can you tell me a little bit about the efforts to remove them?

RICHARD: The efforts to remove them was a coordinated effort between the Massachusetts state police, our local partners in law enforcement and the fire departments, special equipment had to be brought in in order to get the protesters out safely from the barrels that they had attached themselves to and the different attachment devices that they were utilizing out in the roadway. So, it took quite some time to get through there and get a safe resolution to this incident where nobody, no rescuers or protesters were injured.

COSTELLO: Were there arrests, sir?

RICHARD: There were arrests. Currently we have 17 arrests out of the Medford scene and between six and eight arrests out of Milton. The numbers are not totally confirmed yet, but they have been - those people have been arrested and will be arraigned later today.

COSTELLO: And, you know, it's one thing to peacefully protest, but this is another thing, isn't it?

RICHARD: Well, it certainly is. It is a protest that endangers not only the protesters, it endangers the thousands of people that use that roadway to come to work or to enter into the city of Boston, major thoroughfare. So, public safety is our major concern, and we were able to alleviate this particular problem in a safe manner where there have been no injuries.

COSTELLO: Lieutenant Daniel Richard, thanks.

Still to come in "THE NEWSROOM" pundits say it could be the Democrats' next big issue. Expanding paid leave to millions who do not have it. President Obama expected to ask Congress to pass a bill that would do just that. Is sick leave a right and not a privilege? We'll talk about that next.

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