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Two Terror Suspects Dead in Belgium Raid; Video of Anti-Terror Operation in Belgium
Aired January 15, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The one problem is when you do a single raid, and not what we call a near simultaneous raid of the network around it, it gives people who weren't there -- let's assume this net work at a minimum is 10 to 15 people, what I've heard reported in other places, if those people weren't there, those people slip and could be gone.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: With the raid in Verviers and this one individual. He said two dead, one detained. How do they begin questions? How do they get that information there this one individual?
REESE: Well, the law enforcement intelligence agencies have fantastic -- let's call it what it is, interrogators. They'll get this person in there, start working him or her, find out what is happening, what they know. They're looking for action and intelligence to move security services on. This is what they're disrupting, this operational network cell now.
BALDWIN: I heard him say I believe they carried out 10 searches. They're actively looking for these different -- I think Paul Cruickshank said there are people who have gone to Syria from over 50 countries, several hundred people from Belgium alone, to be trained. That's what makes this to me so unique. We've covered so many of these attacks. The fact that people in Syria, ISIS, is saying to these foreign fighters, go back home and carry this out.
REESE: Absolutely. If you think about the elements of national power, and what's happening in Paris and now in Belgium, you're really at the intelligence and what I'll call military or security services tactical operations. What we're not hearing over the last several weeks and for months, -- we were just talking about this --
BALDWIN: Right.
REESE: -- where's the diplomatic aspect? Where are the Turks? Where are the diplomats going to the Turks saying shut these borders down? It's not happening from our perspective.
BALDWIN: We have to take a quick break.
Colonel Reese, thank you so much.
Again, just getting word from the federal prosecutor out of Brussels in Belgium about this raid in Verviers in Belgium. Here's the video. We have now learned two people are dead. One individual has been detained. This is a group that, according to this federal prosecutor, had returned in Syria and "had plans" -- his words -- had planned to carry out attacks in Belgium imminently.
Stay with us. More breaking news on CNN after this quick break.
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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right John Berman, live in Paris. Our breaking news, Europe on edge. Just a week after the attacks here in Paris, the twin terror attacks at a kosher market and the satirical newspaper behind me, we just learned of an anti-terror raid in Belgium in the town of Verviers. Belgium officials targeting what they call an operational cell of people who returned from Syria alongside ISIS or another group there. This operational terror cell, Belgium officials say, planned an imminent attack inside Belgium. That is why they launched this raid. They've been wiretapping this group apparently since their return from Syria. They decided to launch the raid today. Two terrorists are dead, say Belgium officials. Apparently, one is in custody.
We have video of this raid that took place just over the last several hours in the town of Verviers in Belgium. Let's watch.
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BERMAN: This video of an anti-terror raid in Verviers. Two suspects dead, one in custody. It was directed against this operational terror cell, say Belgium officials. A cell planning imminent attacks against targets inside Belgium when police launched the raid. You saw fire, smoke, you heard gunshots. Terrorists, they say, had war weapons and hand weapons. Again, two dead, one in custody.
I want to bring in Chris Burns, former CNN reporter, who is inside Belgium.
Chris, what can you tell us?
CHRIS BURNS, FORMER CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we watched the press conference, which was brief, here moments ago. The prosecutor's office said they can't say a whole lot at this point because they don't want to jeopardize the investigation. This could go much deeper than we know now. What we do know and what they did say is confirmed two suspects were
killed in that action in Verviers, a third arrested. And there had been other searches going on in and around Brussels because there had been wiretaps of a number of suspects, including some who had returned from Syria who were planning some kind of attacks. This is why the police decided to act now as opposed to giving more time to track down others. They felt this was really the moment to do it.
They've also raised the terror threat level up from two to three now, three of -- four being the highest. There had been an anti-terror operation security effort going on for the last few weeks. This is now culminated in this action now. We might see more if the police continue to see other activity they're tracking down with these wiretap as and other surveillance -- John?
BERMAN: All right, Chris Burns, inside Belgium, thanks so much.
I'm joined by Lieutenant Colonel Reese, who joins me from New York.
Colonel Reese, this is an anti-terror success story, if you will. Belgium officials were somehow able to track these men on their return from Syria, wiretap them. Belgium officials say they launched several raids across Belgium today. This one turned up this cell of people planning this imminent attack. They followed them, traced them. How daunting of a task is it to follow all the people, then, that are coming back from the fight in Iraq and Syria right now?
REESE: It is a daunting task, as you said. It's PhD-level work. It's a 24/7. It doesn't stop. It's strenuous for folks doing it. It has to be done. Once you have success, you move onto the next one very quickly.
BERMAN: This is an intelligence game as well. I don't use the word game -- it's no word at all. Lives are at stake. They have a suspect in custody. They killed two terror suspects and captured one. What do you do now with the man they have in custody?
REESE: First, immediately, they want to see if this person in custody has actionable intelligence to help further disrupt the network system. That's what they're looking for immediately. They'll work on that through the night and day until they feel this guy doesn't have more actionable intelligence. Then they'll move to a more systemic or sustained analysis of where they came from, who they spoke to, to continuing to work this link analysis of who's who and what's what.
BERMAN: It was very interesting, this news conference we just heard from Belgium officials, Colonel, was very short. We were told flat- out they weren't going to announce anything, weren't going to release many details. Does that give a since this operation is still ongoing?
REESE: Absolutely. This is an ongoing operation. Also keep in mind that they're looking at this cell. They have a good idea of how many people are in the cell. They've got three. My assumption is there's probably more. They're going to do current operations on others, or they're surveillance on the others that are trying to escape or get away. The gig is up for them. They'll put surveillance and check points at borders, train stations so if people try to escape, they'll pick them up and again collapse this cell.
BERMAN: All right, Colonel James Reese, stand by.
Again, breaking news, two killed in an anti-terror raid in Belgium. One suspect in custody. Men are said to be from an operational terror cell planning an imminent attack in Belgium. The key question, are more terrorists on the move in Europe, including here in France? Is there a connection between this terror raid in Belgium and the attacks here one week ago in Paris?
We'll be right back.
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BALDWIN: Breaking news on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
In case you're just joining us, we want to show you pictures. We want to look at the aftermath in Verviers in Belgium where police carried out the anti-terror raid on an operational cell. This is a group of people, according to this office, came back from Syria, had gone to Syria to train, had apparently been in touch with ISIS and came back to Europe to specifically carry out attacks there in Belgium. According to this federal prosecutor's office, through this entire firefight, which is the video we're playing here now, they were able to neutralize a number of suspects, killing two of them. Two died. I should be more precise. One has been detained. Again, all this happening in the town called Verviers in Belgium.
Let me bring in Tom Fuentes, former FBI assistant director, currently with us at CNN; and Colonel James Reese, as well.
Colonel Reese, let me begin with you.
Guys, if we could put this video up full.
I think it would be interesting to hear from you all the details you see in this video that our eyes would not.
REESE: Sure.
BALDWIN: Guys, throw the video up if we can.
Tell me what you see.
REESE: First and foremost, one of the most difficult places to do operation is in the populist area where people live. There's collateral damage is that the security forces are concerned about.
You can see a multi-entry or multi-stack apartment building. Fighting upstairs is difficult. The window to the far right side of the video, you can see the lights the assault carries that help clear areas, you'll see a flash. See it there, that little flash? That's a gun light. They clear a dark area to make sure no one is there. Then it shuts off as they continue to clear. If you watch on the left window, you'll see the fire. You'll see the officers kind of move back and forth trying to get more of the element back in and back into the assault, to be part of it. Right here is where it looks like things have come to commencement.
BALDWIN: You see the smoke rising from fire, maybe some flash bang. Maybe these terror suspects had lit some of their information --
REESE: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: -- papers, computers, documents on fire.
REESE: Yeah. There's two options here I see. If the terrorists did decide, hey, the gig's up, we're being raided, if they were in the operational phase, they may have maps up, they may light that on fire to protect the rest of the cell. A flash bang was used and when this tape started, that could have been what woke the neighbors up, and people came up with camera phones. Flash bangs on wooden floors could start a fire.
BALDWIN: Tom Fuentes, to you. Colonel Reese was pointing out there are multiple phases planning out any terror attack. You have planning phase, surveillance phase and carrying it out. According to the prosecutor in Belgium, this cell was "operational." How do counter- terrorism officials wait? How do they get information to know it's time to go in and intercept?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Brooke, that's one of the hardest judgment calls officials have to make. You wanted this to go a long enough time period to identify all other cell members that may not be in the apartment, but throughout their network, to identify them to neutralize them. Each day and each hour that you delay might be the time they launch an attack, and you didn't prevent it. You have a difficult call.
Additionally, the authorities have to keep in mind -- Madrid, March 11, 2004, we had the large train station bombing that killed almost 200 people. They tracked down members of that cell, eventually more than 30 people put on trial in Spain and Morocco. But the importance in that case was they tracked down one of the cells believed involved in conducting the attack. April 4th, 2004, they tracked them to an apartment building, much like this building, from the appearance of it. The people inside, the seven terrorists, as the police approached, detonated a bomb. They killed themselves, started a huge fire, killed a police officer. Luckily, they were able to neutralize the fire before it burned the entire apartment building down. That's what kind of worried me and will continue to worry me in these attacks, is what if they decide to detonate explosives and take police officers and other apartment neighbors with them in the process?
BALDWIN: That's exactly right. Thank goodness, according to this federal prosecutor's office, no police officers were injured in this particular instance we're looking at in Verviers.
Paul Cruickshank, let me bring you in as well, terrorism analyst here at CNN.
I know you have all kinds of information about this operational cell, this group who had returned from Syria, this group of foreign fighters. Who exactly are they? PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, yeah, Brooke. I've
been talking to a senior Belgium counter-terrorism official. These people, these fighters had come back from Syria. The Belgiums suspect they connected with ISIS there. They also suspect ISIS persuaded them to return back to Europe, back to Belgium to launch attacks. We're hearing from the press conference they were about to go operational, about to launch a major terrorist attack, presumably in Belgium in the hours ahead. So the Belgians had no choice but to neutralize the threat. They met gunmen with heavy weapons in the fire fight. The concern was they were going to do another shooting-style attack like we saw play out on the streets of Paris a week ago. They were concerned, the Belgians, that this group they had been monitoring quite some time may have been inspired to accelerate plans which they saw carried out against the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine and others in France. Just a lot of concern.
What I'm hearing from European officials is this is a game changer potentially. This is ISIS now directing Westerners to come back to Europe to launch attacks. ISIS had not done that yet, the leadership had not directed people to come back and launch attacks. The attacks we've seen are more by people acting on their own or by lone wolves. But we may now be seeing ISIS directing these Europeans to come back to launch these attacks. That's worrying, indeed, because there are so many Europeans who have travelled to fight in Syria and Iraq. About 3,000 Europeans have made that journey. More than 500 are back in Europe, I understand. That's a very big number, very difficult to monitor, all but a fraction, 24/7. Still a lot of concern right now.
BALDWIN: That is precisely what causes me pause. We've talked a lot about AQAP. We know al-Awlaki before he was killed was saying to fighters go back and stage attacks in Europe. This is the first time ISIS-directed, which clearly is a concern. And the fact you're putting a number -- that officials are able to put a number on foreign fighter who is returned from X number of countries. How many of them, Paul, are being monitored, wiretapped, watched?
CRUICKSHANK: Europeans are trying to monitor as many as they can, and when they come back, they're obviously trying to keep tabs on them. It's difficult. Some are being arrested. Some are being watched closely. Some of them are monitoring is looser. Not all fighters who came back want to launch attacks. Some are fed up with Syria and Iraq. But some do pose a threat. This group in Belgium was one of those groups that the Belgians particularly felt posed a significant threat. They are now announcing that they're about to go launch an operation imminently in Belgium. If it was an ISIS directed plot, it would be ISIS taking its war to the heart of Europe. ISIS essentially declaring war on the West, an act of war -- Brooke?
BALDWIN: There is so much more to talk about, the financing, the weapons.
Paul Cruickshank, Colonel Reese, Tom Fuentes, thanks. Stand by.
More on our breaking coverage. We'll take you live to Paris after this quick break. Stay here.
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